It doesn't get "better" for the gay AND fat?

[Jingthing]

No, again, obesity is not a choice. It's an unhealthy condition.

Not sure whether really calling it disease is exactly precise (because it's more like a condition that creates high risk for specific clinical diseases), but I'm sure calling it a choice is very backwards thinking.

"The suggestion that obesity is not a disease but rather a consequence of a chosen lifestyle exemplified by overeating and/or inactivity is equivalent to suggesting that lung cancer is not a disease because it was brought about by individual choice to smoke cigarettes," reads one of the final paragraphs of the resolution(courtesy NPR's posting of the full document).

http://www.wane.com/news/news-health/ama-obesity-a-disease-not-a-choice

Also of course obesity is an EPIDEMIC and you can bet your big fat arse (if you've got one) that any great progress that is made to reverse that epidemic is not going to come from "WILL POWER" only. Science knows for a fact will power has very limited efficacy against obesity. If you don't understand why that is, again I suggest those documentaries I mentioned before.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

No, again, obesity is not a choice. It's an unhealthy condition.

Not sure whether really calling it disease is exactly precise (because it's more like a condition that creates high risk for specific clinical diseases), but I'm sure calling it a choice if very backwards thinking.

"The suggestion that obesity is not a disease but rather a consequence of a chosen lifestyle exemplified by overeating and/or inactivity is equivalent to suggesting that lung cancer is not a disease because it was brought about by individual choice to smoke cigarettes," reads one of the final paragraphs of the resolution(courtesy NPR's posting of the full document).

http://www.wane.com/news/news-health/ama-obesity-a-disease-not-a-choice

You are letting others do your talking i just discredited the first of your soundbites how it was a choice.

Obesity is a lifestyle choice, and then what they call the sickness follows but it occurs because of a lifestyle choice that you can change. Cancer once you have it you can't cure it with a lifestyle choice.. but obesity you can. Please counter this in your own words.

I get tired of those sound bites that you always seem to cut and paste. I am sure you can think and write for yourself.

Disease sounds like you can't help it and you can't do a thing to reverse it. That is simply not the case in the majority of people. Fact is most people don't want it enough to change. Only a few really have underlying medical problems.

Comparing cancer and obesity, one you can reverse yourself the other you cannot. If i had to choose what one i had I know what i would choose. Id choose the one that i could cure myself, instead of the one that you can't.

They both might have been brought on by lifestyle choices but cancer once you have it you cant cure it yourself.

[Jingthing]

That's the point. The vast majority of obese people CANNOT cure this themselves. Duh. The statistics are there for anyone who looks. The long term success rates of people who have lost a lot of weight are minuscule. Morality blame game people can just be blind and blame the sufferers, that their will power wasn't strong enough. Sorry, that's a myth and only increases the degree of social isolation that fat people experience. Will power is a factor. Will power alone simply does not work for the vast majority of people. Not claiming to have all the answers, but it really pisses me off to see people who have struggled against something so difficult being demonized as weak people who "choose" to be obese.

I am sure in future science will have better solutions for this and I am also sure by then that people will look back on the morality/blame game pushers of today with ridicule and disdain the same way gay people look at homophobes.

Here today pushing this choice lie HURTS fat people, gay or not. They've got enough challenges as it is without being labeled as choosing a painful condition.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

...

IF obesity is not a disease but a choice (my view, in 99%+ of cases, which is why I don't think the above applies and fatties shouldn't be treated in the same way as alcoholics or drug addicts, however equally anti-social they may be) then those who are obese need to take responsibility for their choice.

...

Obesity is not a choice.

Please sir, ask some random obese people if that's how they want to be.

Because of your insistence on that massively flawed POV about choice which simply reflects prejudice and lack of basic knowledge, I don't think there is any point to respond further to your post. Why? Because it's like arguing for gay rights to a fundamentalist. Their prejudices are set. They think they know. Waste of time.

As expected, this notion led to an interesting and extensive discussion with the usual challenges including not least the question why people with obesity cannot simply pull themselves together and make "healthy choices" to overcome their problem.

Well, of course that was the whole point of the symposium - to explain how complex the psychosocial and biological determinants of obesity actually are and why it is that individuals have such a hard time controlling their weight.

...

3) Lack of adequate access to obesity treatments within the health care system is largely a reflection of the continuing bias that obesity is a self-inflicted condition that can be controlled by will-power alone

http://ch-weightwisemd.blogspot.com/2008/03/is-obesity-question-of-choice.html

Of course its a choice for the majority. There are only a few who have real grounds that they can't help themselves.

Your point with ask an obese person how he wants to be. I am pretty sure that if someone asks me do you want your Thai to be better Id say yes but I wont get there without more training in the language.

Same with obesity they might want to be slim but they are not taking the effort to do so. Sure there are some who have a valid reason but most of them can help themselves by doing more sports and eating less.

Thanks for posting that, robblok.

In editing my post Jingthing appears to have missed the key part of what I wrote as regards treating obesity, namely (capitalised) "IF obesity is not a disease but a choice (my view, in 99%+ of cases, which is why I don't think the above applies and fatties shouldn't be treated in the same way as alcoholics or drug addicts, however equally anti-social they may be) then those who are obese need to take responsibility for their choice. THEY NEED TO TREAT THE CAUSE OF THEIR PROBLEM (DEPRESSION, LACK OF SELF ESTEEM, GLUTTONY, SLOTH,ETC) AND TO STOP FEEDING THE SYMPTOM."

Excluding surgical options, which are radical ones, there are NO "obesity treatments" available outside "the health care system" that are not available "within the health care system". There are no wonder drugs, no easy options - it HAS to be down to willpower, supported by treating the root cause of the over-eating where there is one. THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION AVAILABLE.

Any link with gays and gay rights is nothing more than a fabrication: while some obese people are genetically more prone to obesity than others, nobody is genetically prone to being gay and able to change their sexual preference based on counselling followed by a lifestyle choice (exercise) and diet - I would have thought that would have been firmly established for all here by now.

[robblok]

Fact is then that most people consider food more important as health. Anyone without a medical problem can reduce their weight. It is hard it is boring it is not fun but its not impossible. Reason most people fail could also be because its so accepted. If it was not maybe they would try harder. Maybe what you are doing is counter productive.

The more people say its ok and feel for them the less incentive there is to do it. Everyone can loose weight everyone can decide to walk an extra mile or more. Why does it have to be easy ? Nobody said or promised it would be easy. I know JT i have tried most things. Now that i gained a bit of weight few kg i am putting the dots back on the i as a figure of speech and clean up my food intake. Do i like it... Hell no id prefer to eat what i want when i want and how much i want. But it does not work like that only a select few are that lucky.

It takes effort but not everyone wants to put in that effort and that is a choice. Its not fair that some people have it easier as others but that is life.

Just check how active the average overweight guy or girl is and what kind of foods he or she eats. Probably eating more as recommended and exercising under 3 hours a week.

I have seen obese people who really wanted it loose the weight but it took a lifestyle choice. Its possible but hard, curing cancer is not. So in the end obese people have their own faith in their hands. I bet that if obesity would kill at a certain pre set weight almost nobody would die because then they did have the power to correct it.

Now with it being a slow killer and so accepted that need is far less. So you tell me is that acceptance such a good thing or not.

Disclaimer i am talking about people with enough brains to learn and money to buy healthy foods and no underlying medical problem.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Jingthing]

...

Any link with gays and gay rights is nothing more than a fabrication: while some obese people are genetically more prone to obesity than others, nobody is genetically prone to being gay and able to change their sexual preference based on counselling followed by a lifestyle choice (exercise) and diet - I would have thought that would have been firmly established for all here by now.

That is a very offensive point because you put an argument in my mouth that I never stated in the slightest. I have made it clear here repeatedly that the condition of gay and fat are NOT the same thing but that there some interesting areas of worthy comparison. You know very well I have never supported gay conversion theories or that gay is something wrong that needs to be fixed. That is very odious. Don't demonize me in a way that doesn't reflect my POV one bit.

The fat blame morality game meme is very convenient. See a fat person and put them into the box of moral judgment (it's all their fault, it's all their choice) when you know nothing of their specific personal struggle. That in my view is simply unfair, mean, and also very lazy intellectually. Obesity is a VERY COMPLEX situation. The one percent medical assertion is laughably wrong. There is pretty much some degree of medical aspects to almost all cases of obesity and of course many other complex factors as well. Again I suggest the documentaries.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

No, again, obesity is not a choice. It's an unhealthy condition.

Not sure whether really calling it disease is exactly precise (because it's more like a condition that creates high risk for specific clinical diseases), but I'm sure calling it a choice if very backwards thinking.

"The suggestion that obesity is not a disease but rather a consequence of a chosen lifestyle exemplified by overeating and/or inactivity is equivalent to suggesting that lung cancer is not a disease because it was brought about by individual choice to smoke cigarettes," reads one of the final paragraphs of the resolution(courtesy NPR's posting of the full document).

http://www.wane.com/news/news-health/ama-obesity-a-disease-not-a-choice

You are letting others do your talking i just discredited the first of your soundbites how it was a choice.

Obesity is a lifestyle choice, and then what they call the sickness follows but it occurs because of a lifestyle choice that you can change. Cancer once you have it you can't cure it with a lifestyle choice.. but obesity you can. Please counter this in your own words.

I get tired of those sound bites that you always seem to cut and paste. I am sure you can think and write for yourself.

Disease sounds like you can't help it and you can't do a thing to reverse it. That is simply not the case in the majority of people. Fact is most people don't want it enough to change. Only a few really have underlying medical problems.

Comparing cancer and obesity, one you can reverse yourself the other you cannot. If i had to choose what one i had I know what i would choose. Id choose the one that i could cure myself, instead of the one that you can't.

They both might have been brought on by lifestyle choices but cancer once you have it you cant cure it yourself.

Thanks again, robblok.

With all those "whereas"es in the link it looks as if the AMA are scraping around for excuses with the quote given, but that's not the case.

Even as one who sees obesity as a choice not a disease I agree with ALL the rest of the AMA view EXCEPT the part quoted which neglects to say who, if anyone, has ever made the suggestion "that lung cancer is not a disease because it was brought about by individual choice to smoke cigarettes,". Any such suggestion would be not only totally irrational because many who make the "individual choice to smoke cigarettes" do not get lung cancer and many who get lung cancer have never smoked cigarettes - a more valid comparison would have been to say that cigarettes don't kill you but they can lead to lung cancer which can kill you, just as food doesn't kill you but excessive amounts can lead to obesity which can kill you.

Reading the REST of the link, though, the AMA takes a realistic view and make it clear that apart from surgical options the ONLY other options are to impose "Taxes on Beverages with Added Sweeteners", to "Reducing the Price Disparity Between Calorie Dense, Nutrition Poor Foods and Nutrition Dense Foods", to improve "healthy eating" in schools and hospitals, to educate children, parents, doctors, etc, etc, of the dangers of obesity, but above all to encourage "EXERCISE AND HEALTHY EATING" (my caps).

I have NO comment to make on Jingthing personally or his physical condition in any way as he may just be speaking on others' behalf who he has more sympathy for than I do, but Jingthing's view appears to exemplify the view of most obese people who want to have their cake and eat it (metaphorically speaking) and who have been unable to control their obesity: obesity isn't a choice, its an unhealthy condition; its not really a disease because there's no real treatment; anyone who thinks that the cure is just will-power, diet and exercise is just prejudiced and doesn't understand or have any basic knowledge of the issue; most of all, its someone else's fault, not the obese person's.

There is NO OTHER OPTION - it is ENTIRELY up to the individual's will-power, although obviously will-power in anything depends in many cases as much on external motivation as it does on personal motivation.

[Jingthing]

The AMA is correctly focusing on children and SOCIETAL INFLUENCES because science knows that an obese child almost always becomes an obese adult. Like anything, PREVENTION is the best medicine. Once people become obese, regardless of will power strength, the odds are very poor statistically for long term success. This is for people who have tried hard AGAIN AND AGAIN. If you don't believe me, do some research yourself. If you want to believe obese people choose this, be my guest, but I KNOW you're wrong (and so does the AMA). Another factor which the moralists ignore is that repeated yo yo diets and gains which statistically happen to MOST obese people actually cause more health damage than just not losing the weight at all. Again, if you don't believe this, research yourself. For the morbidly obese of course the health risks are so high and the chance of success so remote, they should definitely consider the extreme measure of surgery. But the morbidly obese are not the majority of obese and overweight by any means.

Yes I am saying for some regular non-morbid obese people (and just overweight people) they may indeed be doing the BEST thing for their health to just give up. Why? Because the odds of long term success are so poor and the damage from yo yos is worse than their status quo. Is that a choice to be obese? No way. That would be a rational choice to choose a healthier path out of some bad choices. Also keep in mind that typically the yo yo results in even MORE weight gain than before, so again, in comparison, status quo would have been the BETTER result.

Again, I expect major medical breakthroughs in future but right now the odds for an adult obese person to transform LONG TERM into a normal weight person remain poor without surgery REGARDLESS of will power.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

Obesity was "labelled" a disease for commerical gain and research/grant funds, it's a personal behaviour IMO just as smoking is not a disease.

Edit: Obesity on medical grounds fall into a totally different category as noted.

"Obesity was "labelled" a disease for commerical gain and research/grant funds"

While others may disagree because of their personal bias, that was made clear beyond any doubt by the AMA themselves in the link kindly provided by Jingthing, which I read courtesy of robblok. The final "whereas" and final paragraph (my enbolding) reads:

Whereas, The Council on Science and Public Health has prepared a report that provides a thorough examination of the major factors that impact this issue, the Council’s report would receive much more of the recognition and dissemination it deserves by identifying the enormous humanitarian and economic impact of obesity as requiring the medical care, research and education attention of other major global medical diseases therefore be it RESOLVED, That our American Medical Association recognize obesity as a disease state with multiple pathophysiological aspects requiring a range of interventions to advance obesity treatment and prevention.

(New HOD Policy)

(I should also emphasise that I am not referring to those who are obese as a result of a thyroid or similar medical condition such as Cushing's, which affect between 1 and 4% of the population to varying degrees depending largely on ethnicity, leaving the vast majority with no such "excuse" )

Edited October 22, 2013 by LeCharivari

[Jingthing]

Of course much more medical research is needed. It is a global epidemic and it is killing people. There are some promising avenues of research going on now, specifically around the area of STOMACH BACTERIA. You see obese people and normal weight people generally have a different stomach bacteria profile. How is that not a medical situation?!?

Another fascinating area of research is around the SIDE EFFECTS of bariatric surgery. Research has shown that other biological changes are happening causing weight loss in such patients that are not related to the smaller stomachs. So if science can find a way to induce that without surgery, that would be revolutionary.

What most doctors have been doing for years, lecturing their obese patients to have more will power and self control simply is not working! You can blame the fat people for not being able to cure themselves (as most can't and that is a FACT) or you can encourage science to work harder for solutions that work for MOST people instead of moralism non-solutions that work for a TINY PERCENTAGE of people. The AMA is on the right side of history on this issue.

I think the fact that so many people harbor these old fashioned regressive moral blame attitudes about fat people reflects how backwards the SCIENCE currently is on medical treatment of obesity. That will change when the science advances.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

Fact is then that most people consider food more important as health. Anyone without a medical problem can reduce their weight. It is hard it is boring it is not fun but its not impossible. Reason most people fail could also be because its so accepted. If it was not maybe they would try harder. Maybe what you are doing is counter productive.

The more people say its ok and feel for them the less incentive there is to do it. Everyone can loose weight everyone can decide to walk an extra mile or more. Why does it have to be easy ? Nobody said or promised it would be easy. I know JT i have tried most things. Now that i gained a bit of weight few kg i am putting the dots back on the i as a figure of speech and clean up my food intake. Do i like it... Hell no id prefer to eat what i want when i want and how much i want. But it does not work like that only a select few are that lucky.

It takes effort but not everyone wants to put in that effort and that is a choice. Its not fair that some people have it easier as others but that is life.

Just check how active the average overweight guy or girl is and what kind of foods he or she eats. Probably eating more as recommended and exercising under 3 hours a week.

I have seen obese people who really wanted it loose the weight but it took a lifestyle choice. Its possible but hard, curing cancer is not. So in the end obese people have their own faith in their hands. I bet that if obesity would kill at a certain pre set weight almost nobody would die because then they did have the power to correct it.

Now with it being a slow killer and so accepted that need is far less. So you tell me is that acceptance such a good thing or not.

Disclaimer i am talking about people with enough brains to learn and money to buy healthy foods and no underlying medical problem.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I know exactly how you feel, robblok.

"Everyone can loose weight everyone can decide to walk an extra mile or more. Why does it have to be easy ? Nobody said or promised it would be easy. I know JT i have tried most things. Now that i gained a bit of weight few kg i am putting the dots back on the i as a figure of speech and clean up my food intake. Do i like it... Hell no id prefer to eat what i want when i want and how much i want. But it does not work like that only a select few are that lucky."

I LOVE eating, particularly everything that's "bad" for me - I always have done and I've always had to work at controlling my weight to stay healthy.

When I was working I was very fortunate in that I was able to exercise for anything from a couple to six hours a day every day while at work - I enjoyed it and I was paid to do it. I also had to to make up for the midnight snacks, the six egg omelettes + full fry for breakfast, egg banjos on demand any time and so on, but that was relatively easy when I had a 10 mile cross country run in the morning carrying 60 lbs+ followed by another run or swim in the afternoon and some marathon training just for fun after work.

That took its inevitable toll and chondromalacia patellae, tibial periostitis, scoliosis, crushed vertebrae and an assortment of broken bones and injuries for various reasons put an end to my daily calorie burning (usually 4,500 to 5,00 calories on a normal day, sometimes more). Exercise as before simply wasn't an option any more, so I had to both cut down my calorie intake and do something else to keep my weight reasonable, and as I've always hated gyms I took up cycling and even that can be painful because of spinal injuries - worst of all, over here that means getting up at 5 o'clock in the morning to avoid the heat and a 40 km bike ride including hills. ... and I really HATE getting up early.

Of course its not easy .... and now its barely enjoyable for its own sake, but at least its rewarding in other ways. Now that its rainy season cycling's out (that's my excuse!) so instead its not only meusli for breakfast instead of a nice plate of khao kha moo but I have to cut out the foods I really enjoy - no ice creams (half a kilo a day!), no drinking yogurt (2 litres a day!!), no choccies, no cakes, no ham and cheese croissants, no nuts, etc. If they're in the fridge I can't stop, so I just don't buy them and I have to have some papaya, cantaloupe or bananas instead as that's all I've got as my partner doesn't buy me anything else (I've asked him not to) and he controls the food.

Do I understand fat people? No, no more than I claim to understand anyone apart from myself.

Can I empathise with fat people? Some, certainly - they're me with different priorities.

.

Edited October 22, 2013 by LeCharivari

[Jingthing]

Nuts are very health promoting, particularly almonds. Not too much obviously.

There are actually a number of high calorie foods that are beneficial, such as olive oil and avocados.

Not all calories/fats are the same as far as how the body uses them.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/233577-are-almonds-good-for-losing-weight/

http://www.livestrong.com/article/409833-avocados-for-weight-loss-gain/

So a question to the morality judgment "choice" people. (Of course I make it no secret -- I think that attitude is a total crock.)

When you see a random fat person on the street, and you ADMIT there is some chance of a medical aspect to their condition, do you JUDGE them anyway as being fat by choice?

I reckon you do especially the character with the absurd 99 percent no medical issue assertion.

Do you think that is fair to make such negative moral judgments about people you know NOTHING about (except their fat appearance)?

Not only do I think that is unfair, I think it is BIGOTRY caused by ignorance.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Question: Is it right or wrong to condemn people for being obese? Obviously, obese and morbidly obese people have made mistakes in their lives. Are they morally culpable for those mistakes? How should other people judge their characters? If I see an obese person on the street, should I infer that he is lazy and unmotivated? Should I refuse to hire an obese person because I suspect he won't work as hard as a non-obese person? Is obesity a moral failing – or are there other considerations?

Listen or Download

• Download: MP3 Segment (8.9 MB)
• Duration: 25:58

http://www.philosophyinaction.com/archive/2013-04-14.html

Edited October 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[anon8]

So a question to the morality judgment "choice" people. (Of course I make it no secret -- I think that attitude is a total crock.)

When you see a random fat person on the street, and you ADMIT there is some chance of a medical aspect to their condition, do you JUDGE them anyway as being fat by choice?

Do you think that is fair to make such negative moral judgments about people you know NOTHING about (except their fat appearance)?

Not only do I think that is unfair, I think it is BIGOTRY caused by ignorance.

I have this friend, a girl, she is over weight. She is my best friend. She has talked many times how difficult it is to hear rude comments about her weight, that she hears sometimes when people making comments thinking they are at safe distance and she cant hear them.

JT, i believe you know many here are simply mean, for sake of being mean. Don't take any of the crap here seriously. Your real friends never judge you cos how much you weight, never, if they do they are not real friends.

This here is the meanest sub forum at TV. We should stick together, and be as one, cos there is lots of bigotry to fight. Instead people here are more judgmental, and frankly more dumb, than in most other sub forums. I have read for many years, and hardly ever comment here cos of that. Few prude and misguided board members set the tone here, and made the place unbearable. This here is a sad sad place.

[sustento]

This here is the meanest sub forum at TV. We should stick together, and be as one, cos there is lots of bigotry to fight. Instead people here are more judgmental, and frankly more dumb, than in most other sub forums.

Pot kettle.

[anon8]

sustendo, you and ToddW just run along with the main man and real bigot here, so dont feel offended. I think Lecharivari sets the tone here. He single handidly ruins the whole sub forum. I know Im gonna be banned for saying this, I dont care, I love it.

[sustento]

Why would you be banned for having an opinion? That's what we all have here. The fact that many of my opinions don't agree with yours doesn't make them any the less valid.

As far as LeCharivari is concerned what he brings to the gay forum is fact rather than hyperbole.

It may be that all three of us (LeC, ToddW and myself) are English and believe that there are more ways to get things done other than shouting about them and feeling sorry for yourself.

[sustento]

BTW I weigh more than I should by about 15 kilos. I'm not obese but I'm not skinny either.

If I change my diet to eat less and swap some of the food that I do eat for some that I don't particularly like I can lose those 15 kilos in about 3 months.

I know this for a fact because I've done it before. The problem is that I like (and eat) food that makes me put weight on. I accept that fact and don't attempt to put the blame on anyone or anything else.

I'm a lardarse of my own making and it's all my own fault.

[Jingthing]

BTW I weigh more than I should by about 15 kilos. I'm not obese but I'm not skinny either.

If I change my diet to eat less and swap some of the food that I do eat for some that I don't particularly like I can lose those 15 kilos in about 3 months.

I know this for a fact because I've done it before. The problem is that I like (and eat) food that makes me put weight on. I accept that fact and don't attempt to put the blame on anyone or anything else.

I'm a lardarse of my own making and it's all my own fault.

I don't know your health history but I can make these comments with confidence:

The older you get the harder it would be to lose those 15 kgs.

The fact that you have done this before may indicate you might be on a typical and self destructive YOYO cycle

Yoyo cycles typically result in a higher weight when the yoyo swings to gain. Not always but more often than not.

Losing 15 kgs in three months would generally be considered too fast to do if the goal is long term health, sounds more like a "crash diet" which are almost never recommendable. Especially on a non-obese person. For a person starting at 300 kg. it would not be considered too fast.

Again, you made this personal. Depending on your age and weight history and other health factors, you might be a person that has a fair chance of solving this, especially as it sounds like you weren't an obese child.

Also you might indeed not be obese or ever obese (but watch out for the yoyo), and the medical aspects of obesity and overweight (and long term prospects) are not the same.

If you are 15 kg overweight and prone to the yoyo pattern, HEALTHwise you may indeed be better off at your status quo current weight. Yoyo causes real damage.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/BMI/bmicalc.htm

Edited October 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

...

As far as LeCharivari is concerned what he brings to the gay forum is fact rather than hyperbole.

...

Facts. huh?

Sorry Charlie, LC's asserting only 1 percent of fat people have any medical aspects to their condition is pretty much the OPPOSITE of fact.

He would find no support for that hyperbole among actual credible obesity specialists.

It is indeed a GROSS exaggeration and simplification of the issue.

It's a convenient way to make up a total fiction to rationalize bigotry against fat people in general -- it's all their fault meme.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[ToddWeston]

BTW I weigh more than I should by about 15 kilos. I'm not obese but I'm not skinny either.

If I change my diet to eat less and swap some of the food that I do eat for some that I don't particularly like I can lose those 15 kilos in about 3 months.

I know this for a fact because I've done it before. The problem is that I like (and eat) food that makes me put weight on. I accept that fact and don't attempt to put the blame on anyone or anything else.

I'm a lardarse of my own making and it's all my own fault.

I think you've brought up an interesting point, you know your body, you can put weight on and you know the amount of time it would take to shed those kilos. I find lots of people simply don't know where to start and get caught in the diet craze.

I also think I know my body, I always gain weight on holiday without fail, and realise it's going to be a few weeks of hard work on my return. It's being motivated if I want a rapid return to my original waistline. What I find hard now is adjusting to not standing 10-12 hours a day and it's playing havoc on both of us, aches and pains galore. By the time we stop moaning it's lunch time

[Scott]

This thread will now be closed. If you have concerns about weight, fat or obesity you can feel free to post in the Health Forum. Just see how tolerant they are of the nasty, mean, off-topic nonsense in that forum.

This here is the meanest sub forum at TV.

I am not sure if it's correct or not, but I can't factually argue with the statement.

//Closed//