I don’t think Thais are any more Xenophobic than anyone. Do You?

[benalibina]

If Thais are xenophobic against farangs, then they may have good reasons to be.

Only have to look at some of the comments on these threads and posts to realise how racist and bigoted many farangs are.

Us whiteys are the epitome of racism. The American civil war, WW2 and the South African apartheid are typical examples of the practices of genocide as to the extremes that us white folks, the so-called master race will take to archive superiority over the so-called inferior races, and again judging by many of the comments made by Thai visa members, the old beliefs of Western and white extremist views and supremacy are still alive and well in the minds of many Western ex-pats living here.

My half Thai kids have never experienced racism or bigotry against them in Thailand, but they certainly did when we lived in the West, even if it was done in a mild form, but they were made aware that is was there.

As a foreigner here, I can accept that Thais may be curious about me and even suspicious and a little wary of me in some cases. Remember that Thailand is not a multi ethnic and multi cultural country in the true sense as in some other countries, in fact the concept of having Europeans living among them in the communities is still fairly new. It could take one of two generations before the Thais can come to terms with and live undeterred in integration with people of other races and totally different cultures.

As a foreigner living in Thailand, I can understand that the old ways and old traditions of living under one culture and one people for probably thousands of years cannot be changed in the space of just a few years. Anyone considering moving to Thailand should realise this fact and either except being a foreigner here or go something else where they feel more comfortable living with their own kind.

For the time being we have to still bow down to the fact that we are a small minority in Thailand and restricted under what is the over whelming Thai cultural majority. This could well all be changed in the future by the influences of our multi ethnic and multi cultural children and grandchildren, but probably not within my lifetime.

It`s all a case of educating people as to how the South East Asian nations perceive Westerners and having greater tolerance and understanding of what lies at the core of the fears and the culture of the Thai people and the reasons why.

As on your last paragraph, following link might be of some assistence.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_cultural_mandates

Some thais maybe curious, little wary and suspicious about you !!

Not only the thais, i guess !

Thanks for that, very interesting. Certainly gives as a better perspective of the attitudes of the Thai people and substantiates what I said, that these strong nationalistic and cultural beliefs are not going to be changed in a few years. But being nationalistic doesn`t mean being racist, even through some may believe this is to the extremes. To a point if possible we have to follow some of these examples as described in those mandates, to not necessarily be fully accepted here, but somewhat tolerated and that`s my whole point.

So there you have it, and what I said previous still stands, this is either acceptable to the ex-pats living here or it isn`t, and if it isn`t, then the only options is to move on rather than continuously complain about the system and attitudes in Thailand.

It`s a shame they decided that the traditional costume worn by Thai women before the 1940s was inappropriate.

The big issue many foreigners face in Thailand is indeed that they view, opiniote about, praise and judge thailand, its culture and people through their own, foreign, eyes. They compare many things based on where they come from and what they have experienced themselves in life. Call it character, morals, believes, standards etc. Many of the expats/visitors start a relationship with a thai woman/man. Very few read/study about the thai culture and way of thinking before or during the relationship they have with their partner or thailand. They come across during their stay with many situations which are dealt with on a total different way here. This includes ofcourse also the relationship they have with their thai partner. I truly believe that many men sincerely choose to stay with a thai woman because they love them. If that is mutual, better chance if , apart from cultural differences, the background is similar than many things work alot smoother. Thailand is however more a familybased culture, with alot more to it, than ours. Many of the foreigners do end up with women here from a background, whether educational or family, they would not be interested in in their homecountry. Some of them are lucky, some not.

Its a complex society which looks like it is moneydriven but IMO the cultural mandates is still valid here in the way of thinking/acting. That can only be solved, if necesarry ofcourse, by better education. I.e critical thinking. Many i guess who have children really start to know the difference between their and the thai culture.

Everybody has his own story and facts.

[Thai at Heart]

Xenophobia is an irrational fear. If you can't see that the land ownership laws are completely irrational, I await the explanation.

At the most basic level it is of course impossible to dig it up and export it. So what is the issue?

[maccaroni man]

Xenophobia is an irrational fear. If you can't see that the land ownership laws are completely irrational, I await the explanation.+1

At the most basic level it is of course impossible to dig it up and export it. So what is the issue?

[HeijoshinCool]

Perhaps posters could read and think about the topic and share their experiences before tossing off? Xenophobia is not racism!! Oh if only?

Not very hospitable, are you.

You asked a question, I answered it.

I wasn't "tossing off," but I'll toss off any future topics you post.

[Beetlejuice]

If Thais are xenophobic against farangs, then they may have good reasons to be.

Only have to look at some of the comments on these threads and posts to realise how racist and bigoted many farangs are.

Us whiteys are the epitome of racism. The American civil war, WW2 and the South African apartheid are typical examples of the practices of genocide as to the extremes that us white folks, the so-called master race will take to archive superiority over the so-called inferior races, and again judging by many of the comments made by Thai visa members, the old beliefs of Western and white extremist views and supremacy are still alive and well in the minds of many Western ex-pats living here.

My half Thai kids have never experienced racism or bigotry against them in Thailand, but they certainly did when we lived in the West, even if it was done in a mild form, but they were made aware that is was there.

As a foreigner here, I can accept that Thais may be curious about me and even suspicious and a little wary of me in some cases. Remember that Thailand is not a multi ethnic and multi cultural country in the true sense as in some other countries, in fact the concept of having Europeans living among them in the communities is still fairly new. It could take one of two generations before the Thais can come to terms with and live undeterred in integration with people of other races and totally different cultures.

As a foreigner living in Thailand, I can understand that the old ways and old traditions of living under one culture and one people for probably thousands of years cannot be changed in the space of just a few years. Anyone considering moving to Thailand should realise this fact and either except being a foreigner here or go something else where they feel more comfortable living with their own kind.

For the time being we have to still bow down to the fact that we are a small minority in Thailand and restricted under what is the over whelming Thai cultural majority. This could well all be changed in the future by the influences of our multi ethnic and multi cultural children and grandchildren, but probably not within my lifetime.

It`s all a case of educating people as to how the South East Asian nations perceive Westerners and having greater tolerance and understanding of what lies at the core of the fears and the culture of the Thai people and the reasons why.

As on your last paragraph, following link might be of some assistence.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_cultural_mandates

Some thais maybe curious, little wary and suspicious about you !!

Not only the thais, i guess !

Thanks for that, very interesting. Certainly gives as a better perspective of the attitudes of the Thai people and substantiates what I said, that these strong nationalistic and cultural beliefs are not going to be changed in a few years. But being nationalistic doesn`t mean being racist, even through some may believe this is to the extremes. To a point if possible we have to follow some of these examples as described in those mandates, to not necessarily be fully accepted here, but somewhat tolerated and that`s my whole point.

So there you have it, and what I said previous still stands, this is either acceptable to the ex-pats living here or it isn`t, and if it isn`t, then the only options is to move on rather than continuously complain about the system and attitudes in Thailand.

It`s a shame they decided that the traditional costume worn by Thai women before the 1940s was inappropriate.

The big issue many foreigners face in Thailand is indeed that they view, opiniote about, praise and judge thailand, its culture and people through their own, foreign, eyes. They compare many things based on where they come from and what they have experienced themselves in life. Call it character, morals, believes, standards etc. Many of the expats/visitors start a relationship with a thai woman/man. Very few read/study about the thai culture and way of thinking before or during the relationship they have with their partner or thailand. They come across during their stay with many situations which are dealt with on a total different way here. This includes ofcourse also the relationship they have with their thai partner. I truly believe that many men sincerely choose to stay with a thai woman because they love them. If that is mutual, better chance if , apart from cultural differences, the background is similar than many things work alot smoother. Thailand is however more a familybased culture, with alot more to it, than ours. Many of the foreigners do end up with women here from a background, whether educational or family, they would not be interested in in their homecountry. Some of them are lucky, some not.

Its a complex society which looks like it is moneydriven but IMO the cultural mandates is still valid here in the way of thinking/acting. That can only be solved, if necesarry ofcourse, by better education. I.e critical thinking. Many i guess who have children really start to know the difference between their and the thai culture.

Everybody has his own story and facts.

Good points and exactly right.

There is a lot of fact in the old saying; East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet.

As for Western men marrying Thai women, they say opposites often attract, but it doesn’t mean they can always be blended together.

Everything you have said and I have said should be taken into serious consideration by those thinking about living long term in Thailand. Sometimes Westerners may feel they are in isolation here, living in a society with ways and attitudes to life that they can’t always relate to, so they end up becoming bitter and wound up because their envisions of what they thought Thailand was going to be has turned out completely different from their expectations, a big let down in fact.

I just accept the Thais and Thailand for what it is. My kids are all well established into Thai society and I’m no spring chicken anymore, so it makes no difference to me. But I think for the younger ex-pats they could tire of the country after a while and prefer to live in a country that has a society and people they can relate to better.

As you more or less said; each to his own preferences and everyone has their own opinions, but slagging off the Thais and Thailand is certainly of no benefits to people like me living here, who rather than whinge, just get on with their lives and try to make the best of it without others trying to throw a spanner into the works.

[somtampet]

Wait until , and you will find out, what the Thais really think of us!!

What day is this going to happen,u in the know about this important information,or bar banter as usual

[A1Str8]

Some of them are while others are not. It's not about nationality. Its a human weakness. We like to feel superior when we know we ain't shit.

[benalibina]

Some of them are while others are not. It's not about nationality. Its a human weakness. We like to feel superior when we know we ain't shit.

Superior to who and based on what? To be treated equally as humans is not much to ask is it ? We aint shit ? A human being is what i am. You too, i reckon.

[RikDao]

I recall telling my family I never understood what it was like to be a black man in the USA during the 50's until I lived in Bkk during the 90's

Hahahahahahah! LLLLLLLLLoLLLLLLLLL!

Puh-Leeeeeeze!

We're all a little narcissistic, I guess, but this comment is just WAY up there. Sorry.

[A1Str8]

Some of them are while others are not. It's not about nationality. Its a human weakness. We like to feel superior when we know we ain't shit.

Superior to who and based on what? To be treated equally as humans is not much to ask is it ? We aint shit ? A human being is what i am. You too, i reckon.

Yes I agree with you. That's what I was saying just in a sarcastic way. All humans are equal even if there are certain people who feel superior. One is not any better than the other, still some feel that they are. Based on what? I don't know, ask them.

[johnlandy]

Think the point being, every person on the planet is "xenophobic" or racist to some degree, and any who says they are not are lying

When you even get educated (sic) Thai's admitting that it is a 'xenophobic country' there's gotta be' something to it.

[FDog]

All countries have some sort of xenophobia.

The difference with Thailand is that it is the law.

[happysanook]

Think the point being, every person on the planet is "xenophobic" or racist to some degree, and any who says they are not are lying

The key phrase being 'to some degree'.

Most western countries are far more 'integrated' than Thailand. The vast majority of Thai just haven't a clue about anything other than their own culture. And for the most part don't care to. They learn from the time they come out of the womb. 6pm all across the country in every nook. Not saying it's right or wrong, but there it is.

Edited October 17, 2013 by happysanook

[Docno]

I must really hang out with the wrong crowd (though I confess that I have never tried to do business in Thailand). I don't find Thais especially xenophobic or racist at all. There is a sort of amplified 'cultural pride' I come across, in which it is assumed that anything Thai (food, music, etc) is superior to stuff from overseas, but it is always expressed in a kind of cheerful, almost tongue-and-cheek manner (in my presence at least). I see more exaggerated and serious forms of this among some Americans, Chinese, and French; even the Brits will have a good go at the Continent if you hit the right switch.

Thais, in general, can be quite racist towards Indians and Africans, for example . But most seem very open to farangs and western culture. And I'm also talking about my Thai male friends here (so don't go off about Thai girls simply trying to get into my wallet). I spend most of my time around Isaan, and I find the people there more friendly and open than any other part of SE Asia I've been. Where I live, in Singapore, foreigners are hated by a large segment of the population ... I regularly have taxis drive by me to pick up a Chinese further down the street, and last week a drunken Singaporean came up to me and said "I hate Americans" (to which I jokingly replied "me too - I'm Canadian"... he walked off in stunned silence).

[spidermike007]

If you really want to see what xenophobia feels like, go to Vietnam. They are like ice. Very unfriendly, rude, cold, distant, and totally unconcerned, indifferent, and difficult to deal with. In comparison the Thais are warm, welcoming, helpful, and pleasant. So, do not rant about the Thais, unless you have visited an excessive number of countries, and have something to compare the place with. My experience has been when you are in a country like Vietnam, the people are unfriendly both in the large cities, and in the provinces. In Thailand, I find the people friendly both in the large cities, and especially in the provinces. Says something about them. I do not think they are xenophobic. However, I think they have been subject to some very toxic leaders in the past, who have used nationalism to promote a silly, immature, false, shallow, and ridiculously selfish agenda. It has corrupted some minds. But, the ones who are intelligent, and open minded consider it just that, and act with their hearts. Most I have met fall into the latter category and are delightful to deal with. In my case, I love this place, and the people.

[Ajaan]

Well, many groups of people on this earth are xenophobic. Hard to say who is worse than others...but I think an argument can be made that the Thais are pretty bad.

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that the Thais, almost to a person, firmly believe that they are the most superior race on the face of the earth, and that the various "rules" that applies to others simply do not apply to them. Yeah, yeah, I know, the Japanese believe the same...as do many Americans...and probably many Germans...and French, etc...but bear with me and read what follows.

First of all, let it be said that I do not believe that the people of any nation or ethnic group are "better" or "worse" than anyone else. We are all humans, and culturally we have our strong points and our weak points. As humans, we all have our share of greatness and ugliness to contribute to the human stew.

But you have to consider the unique historical position of Thailand, and the nature of "nation-building".

Thais pride themselves on never having been the colony of any Western country. Quite true. But it's also very true that Thailand itself is the greatest (and by that I don't mean "good" in any way) colonial power in Southeast Asia itself. The people who wandered down out of the mountains of southern China ONLY ABOUT 900-1,000 YEARS AGO, who are now known as the "Central Thais" (mixed with a healthy dose of Chinese genes, at this point) stole all of the previous cultural knowledge of the Mons and the Khmers, and stole the land (and people) of their close relatives the Lao (not to mention the land of the Malay to the south), to create the "modern nation" we call Thailand.

Part of the myth of being a nation (and let's be honest, it's always a myth) is to revise history to make it look like you were the originators of the culture and ideas they stole--in the Thai case--from the Khmers and Mons, and to make it look like Muslim "southern Thailand" and Lao "Isan" and northern "Lanna" was somehow "always theirs" (spoiler: it wasn't, and it was in all the above cases taken by military force). And then part of the myth becomes elevating themselves to some sort of super race, superior to Europeans and other Asians as well.

This has its good and bad side. The good side? When you believe you are the greatest people on the face of the earth, you gain a certain confidence...and self-confidence gets you a LONG way. The Thais' neighbors--the Lao, the Khmer, the Burmese--whom the Thai basically believe are animals, and whom often themselves behave, especially in the face of Farangs, that they are the undeserving scum of the earth, could learn a lot about self-confidence from the Thais.

The bad side? Thais believe they have the answer to EVERYTHING, when their success as a nation is obviously and overwhelmingly built on using the knowledge and expertise of others countries (there are plenty of "Thai-Japanese" and "Thai-German" bridges, construction projects, etc. Where--and how safe--are the "Thai-Thai" projects. Yeah...I thought so.) That is to say, it's bad to have supreme self-confidence when you're sorely lacking the expertise and know-how to do..well...basically anything. This attitude leads to travesties such as Thai house-builders claiming that "Thai electricity doesn't need to be grounded, it's different than Farang electricity," etc., the likes of which all of us here at TV are familiar with. Say what you want about Japanese, American, British, German, French, etc. xenophobia, but you cannot deny that each of these countries has--and continues to contribute--a LOT of expertise to world development and progress. What do the Thais have to contribute, to back up their notion of themselves as superior to all others?

In my profession--Southeast language teaching in the West--I see the results of Thai xenophobia all the time. The setting: a teacher-training workshop. An innovative, modern, language teaching activity is presented by someone who is not Thai, and offered as something that teachers of various languages might want to adopt and adapt. The Thai group quietly participates, but later, the senior member among them tells the others: "You know, none of that so-called modern methodology applies to the teaching of Thai language. We are Thai, and only WE know what applies to the teaching of our language. Feel free to disregard everything that "expert" presenter of teaching techniques meant for other languages just told you."

And so it goes...

[stickylies]

there's a difference between xenophobia AND nationalism or protectionism...

i don't think thai are xenophobic.

however, most thai are uneducated/simple minded and therefore think in generalizations (with thx to the thai mongoloid educational system).

the same way simple minded people in the west think all arabs are thiefs, all jews are greedy, all gay have aids, all western men in thailand scr€w whores, etc

my neighbour with whom i eat everyday now tells his friend that ALL FARANG LIKE GARLIC, since i (the only farang he knows) like garlic

my neighbour is a genius

Edited October 17, 2013 by stickylies

[dunque]

I recall telling my family I never understood what it was like to be a black man in the USA during the 50's until I lived in Bkk during the 90's

See many lynchings did you?

[Suradit69]

I don’t think Thais are any more Xenophobic than anyone. Do You?

They don't even come close to expressing or demonstrating the prejudiced rubbish posted on TV in volume everyday.

[sms747]

I recall telling my family I never understood what it was like to be a black man in the USA during the 50's until I lived in Bkk during the 90's

Are you telling us the Thais made you sit at the back of the bus, use black only toilets and black only food outlets? come off it mr NOWHERE was as racist as parts of the USA were until the late 60's, certainly not Thailand in the 90's.

Edited October 17, 2013 by sms747

[klauskunkel]

xenophobic...it's just ignorance, they fear what they don't know...applies really to many things, not only people

[dunque]

On preventing danger to the nation, issued 3 July 1939, consisted of five items:

"Thai people must not engage in any business without considering the benefit and safety of the nation."

"Thai people must never reveal anything to foreigners that might damage the nation. These actions are a betrayal of the nation."

"Thai people must not act as agent or spokesman for foreigners without considering the benefit of the Thai nation, and must not express opinion or take the side of foreigners in international disputes. These actions are a betrayal of the nation."

"Thai people must not secretly purchase land on behalf of foreigners in a way that endangers the nation. These actions are a betrayal of the nation."

"When a person has betrayed the nation, it is the duty of Thai people to actively and quickly put a stop to it."[2]

Well, let's put this in some historical context: within 3 years, the US were interring and effectively dispossessing US citizens of Japanese ethnicity. And I think the above would probably be a reasonable of the more recent Patriot Act.

[Suradit69]

Wait until , and you will find out, what the Thais really think of us!!

First time living away from home, is it?

I asked a Thai friend what the top 25 things that he thought about or would worry about if " it" hit the fan and self-absorbed farang wasn't even on the list, so I think you're safe.

Thais may or may not have thoughts about some individual farangs who figure big in their lives, but I seriously doubt most of them spend any more time thinking about farang than they do about the chance of a snow storm. Like everyone else, they worry about (1)health, (2)family, (3)work, (4)income, (5)expenses, (6)pollution, (7)food, (8) football ....................... (1001) an invasion of North Koreans,(1002) snow, (1003) annoying farang

And proof of that is whenever there are demonstrations or rioting in the streets, as happened a few years ago in Bangkok, there was absolutely no violence aimed against farang. They were totally focused on whatever internal political issues they claimed to espouse.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Suradit69

[GreenSnapper]

The Thais I know aren't Xenophobic but they have ideas how different ethnics are:

Germans are all good technicians

Indians are all cheating

French are all very fashionable

Chinese are all hard working but a bit dirty

Americans are nice but naive

etc etc

They also seem to think most farangs are mongers and have a low opinion of their wives, if she is a Thai from the boonies and much younger in age.

Many Thai Visa members think the same.

Especially when the farang's wife is more attractive than their own.

[rayongchelsea]

They are and always have been xenophobic .

Nothing to do with the hordes of retirees expats.

I was here when there were but a few..it was evident then, but not to the same degree as now.

It was heightened by the Asian crisis.

[HUAHIN62]

Whats worse Thai's being xenophobic or westerners with superiority complex?

[GreenSnapper]

I recall telling my family I never understood what it was like to be a black man in the USA during the 50's until I lived in Bkk during the 90's

You chose to live in Bangkok and it was your free decision? So it must have been nice then.

[dao16]

Have been to many countries in my travels, and almost all of them thought they were the best country in the world and had some way of explaining it. The only exception I can think of was a country in Africa that was so f'd that the people knew it was a bad place to live. I would bet, though, that the individual tribes would still claim some sort of exceptional status as compared to all the rest of the people on earth.

I went running from this type of sentiment when I left home many years ago....only to find that pretty much all countries/peoples do it.

That said, Thais are probably on the more extreme end of the continuum, but not the craziest I have encountered.

Edited October 17, 2013 by dao16

[benalibina]

On preventing danger to the nation, issued 3 July 1939, consisted of five items:

"Thai people must not engage in any business without considering the benefit and safety of the nation."

"Thai people must never reveal anything to foreigners that might damage the nation. These actions are a betrayal of the nation."

"Thai people must not act as agent or spokesman for foreigners without considering the benefit of the Thai nation, and must not express opinion or take the side of foreigners in international disputes. These actions are a betrayal of the nation."

"Thai people must not secretly purchase land on behalf of foreigners in a way that endangers the nation. These actions are a betrayal of the nation."

"When a person has betrayed the nation, it is the duty of Thai people to actively and quickly put a stop to it."[2]

Well, let's put this in some historical context: within 3 years, the US were interring and effectively dispossessing US citizens of Japanese ethnicity. And I think the above would probably be a reasonable of the more recent Patriot Act.

Your point being, good or not good ?

[chuenyongman]

Regarding the Australian 60 minute program of Pauline Harrison. I can see her point of view. I lived in Australia for 40 years after emigrating from England in 1970. If the Australian government have any disputes with the Aboriginal people they just throw money at them. I remember watching a politician on the television discussing their welfare. Someone in a country area telephoned into the 'show' and asked why the government paid the Aboriginal children to attend school. He vehemently denied this. There were many people telephoning in from country areas stating that it was true as they cashed the cheques for the Aborigine children from the government. These people shot the politician down in flames. Also I have seen footage where the Australian government have built nice modern designed houses for the Aboriginal people They have lived in them a short while then move out to the front of the house and built a " humpy". A small type of wooden structure with a covering, open at the front. They light a fire near it to cook etc. Then they enter the house and use the doors and window frames etc. for firewood. There is a lot of white Australians in Australia who are not well off but the government does not give them a free house.