why so much negativity about Thailand and its ppl?

[phetaroi]

The whiners were whining before they came too Thailand and now they have something new to whine about. Some people will only find the negative in every situation never looking for the positive.

For the assembled throng can you please illustrate the positives in the number of fatal traffic accidents.

Easy! i just compare it with the deaths in cardiac arrest that is the most common cause of death among middle age men where im from and my odds are better here.

Cardiac arrest is a feature of your eating and exercise habits (aka lifestyle).

Changing your location on the planet, is hardly likely to alter that.

You may not be aware that there are many of us with heart conditions without significant problems with eating and exercise, but who have genetic conditions.

[GuestHouse]

GuestHouse

I came under attack, solely because I stated the positive experiences I have had in Thailand and with Thai people over the last 12 years..My first post .Clearly stated what you ask me to state now, in post # 5 I stated:

"I agree, Live and let live, agree to disagree and leave it at that, Everyone has a right to an opinion, but to constantly state the same problem you have, is the same problems all expats have in Thailand, is pure speculation, post to what you believe and leave it at that"

I was accused of every thing except a child molester, But in my experiences my point of view was never kindly received I locked horns with real pro's.

To bad you did not except my opinion as stated in post (#-5) as some would say you did not give a toss,

I responded twice to request to document what I had posted, I documented my points to you and the definition requested by the other poster,

When I asked you to be fair and document your assumptions of what you said I posted to and you never did.

Now you ask me to agree that everyone has a right to an opinion, read post #5, that is my opinion.

Cheers:

Kikoman, I don't believe I myself have attacked you for making positive posts about your experience in Thailand, I myself have made many many positive posts about Thailand. I regard my views of Thailand and Thai people to be on the whole very positive, if you have any doubt about that I'm more than pleased to search and find examples of very positive posts I have made and continue to make about my experience of Thailand and of Thai people.

You have my sincere apologies if I have attacked you for expressing positive experiences of your life in Thailand or even if you perceive I have attacked you for expressing positive experiences of Thailand.

I also accept your post at #5. Live and let live, that is, I hope, is the philosophy I live by and please be assured is exactly the thought I have behind my post of #233 and my earlier post art #220.

In this spirit of live and let live I have respectfully asked (at post #233) if you will join with me and agree a very liberal view of understanding the position of other people's point of view - as you so succinctly put it "`Live and Let Live'

To remind you:

In post 220 I have laid out the reasons why there is no reason to assume that someone who expresses critical views about Thailand should be assumed to be someone who hates Thailand or Thai people

Indeed I have given an example of people who are raising families in Thailand, committed to Thailand, love the country and respect the people but who express critical views precisely because of their commitment to the country, genuine concern for the future of their children and the country they are raised in.

You have read my post 220 do you agree with what I have said, that expressing critical views about aspects of life in Thailand is not mutually exclusive with loving Thailand, respecting the Thai people and being committed to a making the best of life in Thailand?

This is a a point of view which is phrased politely, it expresses a real concern and I respectfully ask if you would mind answering this question.

I accept you may have missed the question I asked so in the spirit of mutual understanding please forgive me for politely and respectfully asking you again.

Do you Kikoman agree with what I have said, that expressing critical views about aspects of life in Thailand is not mutually exclusive with loving Thailand, respecting the Thai people and being committed to a making the best of life in Thailand?

Edited October 24, 2013 by GuestHouse

[kikoman]

I agree, Live and let live, agree to disagree and leave it at that. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but to constantly state the same problem you have, is the same problems all expats have in Thailand, is pure speculation, post to what you believe and leave it at that!

Cheers:

This is the live and let live post I posted on 10-20-2013, was my expressed opinion than, is my expressed opinion now.

If you agree to what my opinion is as stated, we have an agreement, if you do not, then we will not have an agreement.

I never questioned anyone's right to an opinion at any time during this thread, I have no reason to compromise on a statement I never made.

That position should be quite clear to you, it is to me"

Cheers: .

[GuestHouse]

Kilkoman, I absolutely agree with what you have re-quoted in #243 above - it is pure live and let live and it points out very well that to assume one's own problems are the same as everyone else's is a logical fallacy - No problem at all Kikoman, I agree.

Now if you'll excuse me for going back to my own question:

Do you Kikoman agree with what I have said, that expressing critical views about aspects of life in Thailand is not mutually exclusive with loving Thailand, respecting the Thai people and being committed to a making the best of life in Thailand?

Edited October 24, 2013 by GuestHouse

[kikoman]

I agree, Live and let live, agree to disagree and leave it at that. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but to constantly state the same problem you have, is the same problems all expats have in Thailand, is pure speculation, post to what you believe and leave it at that!

Cheers:

This is the live and let live post I posted on 10-20-2013, was my expressed opinion than, is my expressed opinion now.

If you agree to what my opinion is as stated, we have an agreement, if you do not, then we will not have an agreement.

I never questioned anyone's right to an opinion at any time during this thread, I have no reason to compromise on a statement I never made.

That position should be quite clear to you, it is to me"

Cheers: .

As stated in post # 5, Is my opinion prior to being attacked for that opinion,

Simply agreeing to what appears to be a harmless statement, would only give some credence to the assumptions made about me denying any expat the right to be critical of Thailand or its people.

A statement I never made, (period) I will again request of you to direct me to a post of mine that you can document I made such a statement, only then I will reconsider my agreeing to the statement, for whatever reason you wish me to agree with.

I am not looking for or desire an apology, I have always posted what I believe nothing more nothing less.

This forum is not a game to me, to long I have been asked to go along to get along and I have never compromised on my principal before in my life and I will not now.

Now if you will excuse me for going back to my answer to your question in post #5.

Cheers:

[benalibina]

Well.............well...........just lost .........or........ ?

[Bpuumike]

How good can a thread get.

It's like watching a tennis match.

Keep it coming guys.

[kikoman]

GuestHouse,

As you stated in the spirit of Live and let live!

Did you consider that spirit you profess to now, when you posted in the thread titled : "It...what an insult!" on a thread I never posted or commented on, Please refer to your post (#74) which states

"Now all we need is someone to turn up and tell us these terms are not Thai language at all, but some ancient Persian language terms offering deep respect to foreigners."

Why would a person not question your sincerity of the spirit of live and let live!

I most certainly do!

Cheers:

[GuestHouse]

Kikom,

in post #243 I have given you an unequivocal apology, here it is again for clarity " You have my sincere apologies if I have attacked you for expressing positive experiences of your life in Thailand or even if you perceive I have attacked you for expressing positive experiences of Thailand."

In post #234 I have stated unequivocally that I agree with your post at #5, here it is again for clarity 'Kilkoman, I absolutely agree with what you have re-quoted in #243 above (your post of #5) - it is pure live and let live and it points out very well that to assume one's own problems are the same as everyone else's is a logical fallacy - No problem at all Kikoman, I agree. "

I have openly and very clearly met your concerns it now remains for you to treat me with the respect I have shown you and answer the question which I have asked you many times now.

Here's the question, can you please answer it for me.

Do you Kikoman agree with what I have said, that expressing critical views about aspects of life in Thailand is not mutually exclusive with loving Thailand, respecting the Thai people and being committed to a making the best of life in Thailand?

[rayongchelsea]

Of course it is not mutually exclusive.

That's why he won't reply...

He talks of integrity and principals but he cannot knowledge the very simple question that you have asked him.

I think he is being very impolite and displaying the same traits he probably dislikes in other farangs ignorance

If he isn't careful he will give farangs a bad name..

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GuestHouse]

RC, having read Kikoman's responses in this thread and others, I believe that respect is very important to him, its important to me too and for that reason I have had no problem apologising to Kikoman for any offence I have caused him.

I don't want to speak for Kikoman, but I think I can say we both agree we don't want a disrespectful discussion.

I've asked my question, which I'm certain he will answer.

I'm not going to speculate on why he hasn't answered straight away, I've been away making coffee, I'd not want anyone to conclude I was ignoring them when attending to such an important part of my life and my first coffee of the day.

[kikoman]

GuestHouse

As it is written there is no way that I could agree with it, your statement MUST address

1. Those persons that state positive view of Thailand also is not mutually exclusive to disliking expat's or being assumed that it is denying the expat's of their opinion.

2. Must define what is constructive criticism of Thailand or its people, and where is the fine between constructive criticism and Thai Bashing. (if you need examples of a post that Thai bash I can furnish some to you, on your request)

Your apology is not requested or accepted, as it does not stress what you are apologizing for, just a blanket apology is meaningless and it is best to leave that out of any agreement.

I do not understand the dynamics behind your need for us to agree on anything.

As in all of my years on TV i never seen it done before or see any need for it to be done now. But I will not entirely reject the Idea outright, but my concerns must be included in any statement I would consider to eventually maybe agree to.

Cheers:

[AYJAYDEE]

GuestHouse

As it is written there is no way that I could agree with it, your statement MUST address

1. Those persons that state positive view of Thailand also is not mutually exclusive to disliking expat's or being assumed that it is denying the expat's of their opinion.

2. Must define what is constructive criticism of Thailand or its people, and where is the fine between constructive criticism and Thai Bashing. (if you need examples of a post that Thai bash I can furnish some to you, on your request)

Your apology is not requested or accepted, as it does not stress what you are apologizing for, just a blanket apology is meaningless and it is best to leave that out of any agreement.

I do not understand the dynamics behind your need for us to agree on anything.

As in all of my years on TV i never seen it done before or see any need for it to be done now. But I will not entirely reject the Idea outright, but my concerns must be included in any statement I would consider to eventually maybe agree to.

Cheers:

its a set-up

[GuestHouse]

GuestHouse

As it is written there is no way that I could agree with it, your statement MUST address

1. Those persons that state positive view of Thailand also is not mutually exclusive to disliking expat's or being assumed that it is denying the expat's of their opinion.

2. Must define what is constructive criticism of Thailand or its people, and where is the fine between constructive criticism and Thai Bashing. (if you need examples of a post that Thai bash I can furnish some to you, on your request)

Your apology is not requested or accepted, as it does not stress what you are apologizing for, just a blanket apology is meaningless and it is best to leave that out of any agreement.

I do not understand the dynamics behind your need for us to agree on anything.

As in all of my years on TV i never seen it done before or see any need for it to be done now. But I will not entirely reject the Idea outright, but my concerns must be included in any statement I would consider to eventually maybe agree to.

Cheers:

Kikoman,

I have given a very good and clear outline of how I came to the question I have asked, refer #242, the question I have asked, repeated here again for clarity is a very simple one which I cannot now come to any conclusion other than you are dodging the question.

Either you can't answer it or you believe that your acceptance of other people's right to a point of view is conditional on your terms.

Very many members will read this question and understand that they love Thailand, that they respect Thai people and that they have committed to living a good life in Thailand. They will also understand that where they hold and express critical views about Thailand this in no way diminishes their love for Thailand, respect of Thai people and commitment to living a good life in Thailand.

These people, who I sincerely believe are the majority of expats living in Thailand will surely ask themselves why it is you dodge the question.

Posters have questioned the sincerity of your belief in respect for others - I clearly stated that what you say in your threads indicates you do feel respect for others is important.

The question I have asked, and that it seems clear now that you are avoiding is entirely about respect for others.

I had hoped, I still hope, that where you have talked the talk you can now walk the walk and answer the very simple question.

Do you Kikoman agree with what I have said, that expressing critical views about aspects of life in Thailand is not mutually exclusive with loving Thailand, respecting the Thai people and being committed to a making the best of life in Thailand?

Continuing to dodge the question is, I'm afraid leaving you open for exactly the kind of accusations RC has made above.

I'm still clinging to the idea that you have the integrity to walk the walk on this matter of 'respect for others' by answering the question I have asked.

Edited October 25, 2013 by GuestHouse

[AYJAYDEE]

GuestHouse

As it is written there is no way that I could agree with it, your statement MUST address

1. Those persons that state positive view of Thailand also is not mutually exclusive to disliking expat's or being assumed that it is denying the expat's of their opinion.

2. Must define what is constructive criticism of Thailand or its people, and where is the fine between constructive criticism and Thai Bashing. (if you need examples of a post that Thai bash I can furnish some to you, on your request)

Your apology is not requested or accepted, as it does not stress what you are apologizing for, just a blanket apology is meaningless and it is best to leave that out of any agreement.

I do not understand the dynamics behind your need for us to agree on anything.

As in all of my years on TV i never seen it done before or see any need for it to be done now. But I will not entirely reject the Idea outright, but my concerns must be included in any statement I would consider to eventually maybe agree to.

Cheers:

Kikoman,

I have given a very good and clear outline of how I came to the question I have asked, refer #242, the question I have asked, repeated here again for clarity is a very simple one which I cannot now come to any conclusion other than you are dodging the question.

Either you can't answer it or you believe that your acceptance of other people's right to a point of view is conditional on your terms.

Very many members will read this question and understand that they love Thailand, that they respect Thai people and that they have committed to living a good life in Thailand. They will also understand that where they hold and express critical views about Thailand this in no way diminishes their love for Thailand, respect of Thai people and commitment to living a good life in Thailand.

These people, who I sincerely believe are the majority of expats living in Thailand will surely ask themselves why it is you dodge the question.

Posters have questioned the sincerity of your belief in respect for others - I clearly stated that what you say in your threads indicates you do feel respect for others is important.

The question I have asked, and that it seems clear now that you are avoiding is entirely about respect for others.

I had hoped, I still hope, that where you have talked the talk you can now walk the walk and answer the very simple question.

Do you Kikoman agree with what I have said, that expressing critical views about aspects of life in Thailand is not mutually exclusive with loving Thailand, respecting the Thai people and being committed to a making the best of life in Thailand?

Continuing to dodge the question is, I'm afraid leaving you open for exactly the kind of accusations RC has made above.

I'm still clinging to the idea that you have the integrity to walk the walk on this matter of 'respect for others' by answering the question I have asked.

I dont know what others think about all this but please refrain from speaking for me

[GuestHouse]

I'm not at all interested in speaking for AJAYDEE, he can and does speak for himself.

I'm interested in Kikoman walking the walk and answering the question I have asked

We've talked the talk on respect, what is left to discover is integrity.

Edited October 25, 2013 by GuestHouse

[nontabury]

GuestHouse

As it is written there is no way that I could agree with it, your statement MUST address

1. Those persons that state positive view of Thailand also is not mutually exclusive to disliking expat's or being assumed that it is denying the expat's of their opinion.

2. Must define what is constructive criticism of Thailand or its people, and where is the fine between constructive criticism and Thai Bashing. (if you need examples of a post that Thai bash I can furnish some to you, on your request)

Your apology is not requested or accepted, as it does not stress what you are apologizing for, just a blanket apology is meaningless and it is best to leave that out of any agreement.

I do not understand the dynamics behind your need for us to agree on anything.

As in all of my years on TV i never seen it done before or see any need for it to be done now. But I will not entirely reject the Idea outright, but my concerns must be included in any statement I would consider to eventually maybe agree to.

Cheers:

Kikoman,

I have given a very good and clear outline of how I came to the question I have asked, refer #242, the question I have asked, repeated here again for clarity is a very simple one which I cannot now come to any conclusion other than you are dodging the question.

Either you can't answer it or you believe that your acceptance of other people's right to a point of view is conditional on your terms.

Very many members will read this question and understand that they love Thailand, that they respect Thai people and that they have committed to living a good life in Thailand. They will also understand that where they hold and express critical views about Thailand this in no way diminishes their love for Thailand, respect of Thai people and commitment to living a good life in Thailand.

These people, who I sincerely believe are the majority of expats living in Thailand will surely ask themselves why it is you dodge the question.

Posters have questioned the sincerity of your belief in respect for others - I clearly stated that what you say in your threads indicates you do feel respect for others is important.

The question I have asked, and that it seems clear now that you are avoiding is entirely about respect for others.

I had hoped, I still hope, that where you have talked the talk you can now walk the walk and answer the very simple question.

Do you Kikoman agree with what I have said, that expressing critical views about aspects of life in Thailand is not mutually exclusive with loving Thailand, respecting the Thai people and being committed to a making the best of life in Thailand?

Continuing to dodge the question is, I'm afraid leaving you open for exactly the kind of accusations RC has made above.

I'm still clinging to the idea that you have the integrity to walk the walk on this matter of 'respect for others' by answering the question I have asked.

I think you've been very polite and reasonable throughout this tread, being prepared to listen to other people's arguments, even when they are so obviously flawed and bigoted, it's such a pity I cannot say the same about someone else.

[AYJAYDEE]

I'm not at all interested in speaking for AJAYDEE, he can and does speak for himself.

I'm interested in Kikoman walking the walk and answering the question I have asked

We've talked the talk on respect, what is left to discover is integrity.

I can understand where he feels the same

[kikoman]

I agree, Live and let live, agree to disagree and leave it at that. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but to constantly state the same problem you have, is the same problems all expats have in Thailand, is pure speculation, post to what you believe and leave it at that!

Cheers:

This is the live and let live post I posted on 10-20-2013, was my expressed opinion than, is my expressed opinion now.

If you agree to what my opinion is as stated, we have an agreement, if you do not, then we will not have an agreement.

I never questioned anyone's right to an opinion at any time during this thread, I have no reason to compromise on a statement I never made.

That position should be quite clear to you, it is to me"

Cheers:

Your attempts to save face, are no concern of mine.

I agree only to what I posted in Post # 5, Is my expressed opinion on the subject ,and I have never posted to anything different!

By the way I do care what AJAYDEE states you do not speak for any one but yourself.

I choose not to communicate with you on a face saving agreement.as I will not consider any agreement without my points included,Period! My answer to your question is on my post #5 as I have informed you since the beginning,Take it or leave it!!

End to this discussion!

Cheers:

Edited October 25, 2013 by kikoman

[metisdead]

Enough of this circular argument between two posters, take your discussion with each other by using the PM function. Continued bickering/arguing posts will disappear.

[LisaMaria]

The Thai Minister of Education complained about Thai students education.

Where there is no education there is ignorance.

Ignorance drives to closure (mind and heart)

It' not easy to deal with these people, in this Country.

[Commander Tamson]

Enough of this circular argument between two posters, take your discussion with each other by using the PM function. Continued bickering/arguing posts will disappear.

If I may: it was , in places, entertaining. For GH it was like trying to dig a hole in quicksand; for KM, well he just kept digging a hole for himself!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Johnnie99]

Bummer I missed this thread.

British expats love to complain because that's what we British do. It gets the issues over and done with. It is not at all about superiority of any kind (at least as far as I am concerned).

If Thai people learned by their mistakes and changed the way they did some things, there would not be so much to complain about now, would there. That does not mean their current way is wrong, simply different.

All I can say is: after living here a while you might appreciate our complaints.

[Prbkk]

Yes, I agree that a crisis is looming and sooner than we might think. There will have to be a lower Baht over the next few years and consequent higher inflation. That is going to hurt a lot of people very badly. I love Thailand but I don't believe there has been a good PM since Prem....and that's 25 years ago ( or longer). So many missed opportunities , sadly....particularly in logistics and manufacturing...and both are stuffed beyond repair. Thailand runs the serious risk of becoming the poor man of Asia and it's sad to see that decline

I have lived in Thailand for 12 years, most of my interactions with Thai's have been very positive,

I had many negative experiences prior to coming to Thailand.

I have opted for most of my friends to be Thai, as they are very positive people.

God willing I will one day die in Thailand,

For Thailand is my home and a country I love.

My statement also conforms to forum rules and I state such based on my own Opinion!

No one else's!

Cheers:

These last 12 years you speak of have been years of relative prosperity for Thailand. Things can go sour and do so fast. Look at Cambodia in the 70s. Things are just now beginning to get a wee tight for some people in Thailand, with inflation starting to pinch the people at the bottom. They may become more and more desperate. And they'll look for the painted bird in their midst. Maybe it won't be you. But you will not know until the moment of crisis comes. And the fact that it is coming is something I'm sure of.

[kikoman]

Yes, I agree that a crisis is looming and sooner than we might think. There will have to be a lower Baht over the next few years and consequent higher inflation. That is going to hurt a lot of people very badly. I love Thailand but I don't believe there has been a good PM since Prem....and that's 25 years ago ( or longer). So many missed opportunities , sadly....particularly in logistics and manufacturing...and both are stuffed beyond repair. Thailand runs the serious risk of becoming the poor man of Asia and it's sad to see that decline

I have lived in Thailand for 12 years, most of my interactions with Thai's have been very positive,

I had many negative experiences prior to coming to Thailand.

I have opted for most of my friends to be Thai, as they are very positive people.

God willing I will one day die in Thailand,

For Thailand is my home and a country I love.

My statement also conforms to forum rules and I state such based on my own Opinion!

No one else's!

Cheers:

These last 12 years you speak of have been years of relative prosperity for Thailand. Things can go sour and do so fast. Look at Cambodia in the 70s. Things are just now beginning to get a wee tight for some people in Thailand, with inflation starting to pinch the people at the bottom. They may become more and more desperate. And they'll look for the painted bird in their midst. Maybe it won't be you. But you will not know until the moment of crisis comes. And the fact that it is coming is something I'm sure of.

When I came to Thailand the Thai baht was exchanged at 44 baht-to the dollar, before the 1997 crash the exchange rate was 25 baht to US dollar, but of course the cost of living was much lower, very much lower.

I believe if it goes to that level again at the rate 25-1, I will still be able to live well, House paid for, no car expense, motorbikes paid for, no major bill, Major expenses for food, utilities Satellite TV and internet.

Which the luxury's I can cut back on, I left Mexico, 12 year ago because of the high cost of living the US except for some food items everything else is very expensive.

I will choose to face the uncertain economic future in Thailand and hope for the best?

Cheers:

Edited October 25, 2013 by kikoman

[AYJAYDEE]

Bummer I missed this thread.

British expats love to complain because that's what we British do. It gets the issues over and done with. It is not at all about superiority of any kind (at least as far as I am concerned).

If Thai people learned by their mistakes and changed the way they did some things, there would not be so much to complain about now, would there. That does not mean their current way is wrong, simply different.

All I can say is: after living here a while you might appreciate our complaints.

if their way is not wrong, simply different, why would they want to change it? and dont give us that load about it not being superiority! the rest of the world has had enough dealings with them to know better. and just because they like to whine is not reason for others to appreciate it. it gets old real fast.

[Bpuumike]

Bummer I missed this thread.

British expats love to complain because that's what we British do. It gets the issues over and done with. It is not at all about superiority of any kind (at least as far as I am concerned).

If Thai people learned by their mistakes and changed the way they did some things, there would not be so much to complain about now, would there. That does not mean their current way is wrong, simply different.

All I can say is: after living here a while you might appreciate our complaints.

The Thais I know do change things. Quietly but quickly. All down to 'face'and not to be mentioned.

Even my wife!

I try to follow suite.

[Tchooptip]

why so much negativity about Thailand and its ppl?

White Man Superiority Syndrome?

But also old farts rambling again and again forgetting they have said exactly the same thing a few days ago, a month ago, last year and the year before.

[Sealbash]

Why not get out you ask?

 

Sold my condo...selling my car...gave away my bike and furniture...

 

Cleaned out my bank account...have about 3 weeks left...

 

I am more happy to be leaving...than I ever thought possible...

at least you are honest. good for you...hope u will be happy where ever you are going to next.....

You are doing precisely the correct thing. Life is short, why self impose discontent by remaining where you are not happy? Wish you good luck and happiness. But it would be a very boring world if everyone thought the same. Thailand is not perfect. Neither am I. But I find my own personal happiness here.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app