US school shooting: Teacher killed, two students wounded

[yingyo]

But did they slap a foreigner on the head with a slipper?

[Mrjlh]

See, I told you the arguements would start. But like true to form, people take one example out of 300 million and blame an entire nation. And still the so called educated can't recognize its a serious social issue with "people" and human behaviour. Because you bury your heads in the sand and simply irgnor the facts, I guess "Gangs", Bullies, and mentally ill people are not the problem. But guns are? We need to start seriously thinking of the influence that extreme video games are having on our youth. Video games have become so realistic they now train special forces with them. Get a clue people. They are fun for those mature enough to deal with it or are they really mature enough?

[sustento]

A friend who is a metropolitan homicide squad detective in the US said that every murder he has investigated has been either gang related or a crime of passion, in both cases the victim is not random. Not that it is any better, and this is just anecdote, but very few violent crimes are random like these school shootings. They make the news and bring out the America bashers but are basically irrelevant to life in the States.

Apart from those who've been shot.

[sustento]

See, I told you the arguements would start. But like true to form, people take one example out of 300 million and blame an entire nation. And still the so called educated can't recognize its a serious social issue with "people" and human behaviour. Because you bury your heads in the sand and simply irgnor the facts, I guess "Gangs", Bullies, and mentally ill people are not the problem. But guns are? We need to start seriously thinking of the influence that extreme video games are having on our youth. Video games have become so realistic they now train special forces with them. Get a clue people. They are fun for those mature enough to deal with it or are they really mature enough?

As I don't have a dog in the fight may I ask you what your solution to the problem might be?

[bkk_mike]

Baby steps...

I think it's time for the American Justice System to have a new offence.

Letting a minor have unsupervised access to a gun and ammunition should come with a mandatory minimum jail sentence. i.e. If you have kids, you should be required to have a gun cabinet (with a proper lock on it), and a safe for your ammunition, so that your gun and ammunition aren't accessible to the child, except in your presence.

That lets the gun nuts keep their guns, continue to teach their kids how to use guns if they want to, while doing "something" about kids getting hold of them. i.e. Even if the kid who turns up at school with a gun doesn't shoot anyone, the person dumb enough to give them access to the gun will still go to jail.

[Minnehaha]

there is no getting away from the evil that oversupply of weapons provides opportunity for.

The gun lobby imbeciles nauseating platitude that guns dont kill people, people do, is easy to counter:if people dont have guns then they cant shoot people. Another argument from the intellectually challenged gun lobby is that schools should have armed guards. How would an armed guard have made an ounce of difference in this case? Would that same armed guard in the right place at the right time have shot a 12 year old dead? Is it justifiable? Madness, madness that such a question should even arise.

Home of the brave, land of the free it is time to repeal your amendment to carry arms to protect the men and women of your future in the name of sanity.

I agree.

but unfortunately there are so many guns in the USA (75 per 100 people) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_map_of_civilian_gun_ownership_-_2nd_color_scheme.svg

That it seems impossible to repeal the amendment and collect all the guns. I realize Australia did just that but I doubt they had as many guns in circulation. Also, their population is less than 1/10 th the size of USA.

Having said that, the US should begin passing laws that reduce the number of assault rifles and other types. Also, the background checks should be universal, extensive, and on-going. There are things to be done, yes.

[Shurup]

Well, here we go again....ALL the anti gun idiots who know everything about everything when it comes to crime but can't see the reality in front of them. It's people and society that's the cause of all issues. People kill people! People are the cause for whatever screwed reason they have. Guns just don't go out by thenselves and go off. Not do cars hit other cars or people and kill by themselves. Human intervention did this. It's so easy to blame an inanimate object and thr human. Wants some statics? Here you go. And you need to follow all the links ad sources before you run off at the mouth saying they are lies. I even helped you out by listing a couple of the links.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/12/11/gun-crime-soars-in-england-where-guns-are-banned-n1464528

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-154307/Gun-crime-soars-35.html

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/29/justice/us-violent-crime/index.html

Point is, even in countries who "ban" guns, gun crimes are up! And surprisingly in the US, gun crimes are down. So argue away.

Ok lets for a moment take your post seriously; I looked at the sites and I quote directly from one of your links:

"Guns were used in two thirds of the nation's murders last year, 41 percent of robberies, and 21 percent of aggravated assaults, the report showed."

So that is a reason to support unbridled distribution/holding of deadly weapons?

What you are quoting is a decrease in violent crime (albeit small but welcome) not gun crime

Come on now...

If you cant even support your own argument with your own post, how can you expect people to take you seriously?

Sorry I do not have time to read all the links, was there a mention anywhere how many of those murders were committed with illegal guns?

People like you normally fail to comment on one thing: will all the criminals give their illegal guns away too if the right to own the guns is taken away from the citizens? I think not!

This incident, as well as other similar incidents shows that the gun wasn't stored properly and this is the problem. Kids and those with no license shouldn't be allowed to hold the guns, it's no different if we let kids, people with no license or monkeys to operate vehicles - lots of people will get hurt.

[dighambara]

Who would have thought that teaching would become such a dangerous profession

Teaching has always been dangerous - ask any who have done so.

This happened in what is considered my 'Home Town', It was possible is because there is no deterrent - all US Schools are declared 'Gun-Free Zones', so have absolutely no protection from Gunmen.

When I was a kid, students could take their guns for 'Show & Tell', to assist in telling stories about hunting or target shooting.

YES, I owned a gun by age 10 and knew all the rules.

[Mrjlh]

See, I told you the arguements would start. But like true to form, people take one example out of 300 million and blame an entire nation. And still the so called educated can't recognize its a serious social issue with "people" and human behaviour. Because you bury your heads in the sand and simply irgnor the facts, I guess "Gangs", Bullies, and mentally ill people are not the problem. But guns are? We need to start seriously thinking of the influence that extreme video games are having on our youth. Video games have become so realistic they now train special forces with them. Get a clue people. They are fun for those mature enough to deal with it or are they really mature enough?

As I don't have a dog in the fight may I ask you what your solution to the problem might be?

Honestly, all the so called experts have been tackling this problem for a long time. No one has found the solution yet. As someone else mentioned they need to go in a different direction and not just keep writings laws to ban things. A problem world wide is the growth of gangs and getting mor violent. Even Thailand has them. I think it should start at an early age. Many schools have started anti bulling and anti gang campaigns. But I also think there needs to be more social behaviour training kids are not getting at home. JMHO.

[Cats4ever]

If only the teacher and student victims had been dressed in full body armour and been armed to the teeth. They then could have defended themselves and seen off the attacker. Result one death rather than three. Gun control obviously leads to more gun deaths. QED.

[LomSak27]

If only the students had guns - If only some good guys had guns! Thats the ticket. This would not have happend

[Minnehaha]

I too would like to know where the kid got the gun. Hope the parents are held responsible. Unfortunately the shooter is dead so we will never know the real reason.

I thought I heard in the news the kid obtained the gun from his parents. That is usually the case in school shootings in the USA.

I saw your other post re: the reason there are so many homicides, suicides, and mass shootings in the USA. And you are accurate. Canada has almost as many guns per capita as the USA but the rate of death by firearm is minuscule.

If the parents had locked up the gun in a secure place, maybe the kid would not have been able to obtain it.

If the mother of the Sandy Hook shooting spree young man had not bought and given her son guns maybe he would not have shot a room full of 6 year olds.

There are things the US Govt and other institutions should be doing to limit access to firearms BECAUSE it is clear that the violent society of the USA cannot be trusted with guns.

So many right wing NRA fanatics walk past the 40,000 deaths by firearms a year statistic saying it is the fault of crazy people and fail to realize that a pro-gun lobby holds responsibility for people obtaining them and has should have an interest in their safe use. But they dont care. I wonder why that is.

[JeffreyWitty]

Terrible news, RIP to the teacher. When are these pathetic little insecure people who keep guns give them up !

Considering our (american) history - never. Remember, the assailant used a weapon he STOLE from his family. I say bring the family up on charges or murder for not properly locking up their weapons.

[JeffreyWitty]

Look, if you take away all the guns in the USA - you will NOT see all murders cease to exist.

Can we agree on that?

I'll admit, the murder rate will go down.But murders will just start using other tools to kill. Then what? So we ban those next instruments of destruction?

When someone runs over and kills someone with their car - do we ban all cars?

I also admit, the rate of people who murder with a vehicle is FAR FAR FAR less that those who use a gun. But I don't feel the blame lies with the tool used to commit the crime.

[itsrebel]

Look, if you take away all the guns in the USA - you will NOT see all murders cease to exist.

Can we agree on that?

I'll admit, the murder rate will go down.But murders will just start using other tools to kill. Then what? So we ban those next instruments of destruction?

When someone runs over and kills someone with their car - do we ban all cars?

I also admit, the rate of people who murder with a vehicle is FAR FAR FAR less that those who use a gun. But I don't feel the blame lies with the tool used to commit the crime.

Agree, murders using guns will still happen and the rate will definitely go down. But, IMO, incidents like this one will not happen. The kid might bring a kitchen knife, if he doesn't have access to guns, but the extent of damage a kid can cause using a knife doesn't even come close to a gun.

In a country where so many human lives are lost to guns and assault rifles, it would definitely make sense to ban the darn things.

As to the argument made earlier in the thread about illegal firearms - Firstly, the reason for so many illegal firearms in the country is the history of non-existent gun control. Of course, people holding illegal firearms will not surrender them if the government was to ban them. But, IMO, if the ban is issued and the sale of firearms is drastically curtailed, the number of guns entering the illegal market and getting into the hands of criminals will start to go down. In due course (and it might take years or even decades), the total number of guns, legal or otherwise, will go down and the number of human lives lost to people wielding guns will go down as well.

After decades and decades of no gun control, it is unreasonable to think that a ban will immediately mean that no more lives will be lost to firearms related incidents. But using the argument that illegal guns will remain out there doesn't hold, especially when the current laws also mean that there will be far more illegal firearms in the future.

[MaxYakov]

I would like to know how he got the gun from the parents,as i though the gun and ammo have to be in a seperate place, both locked up.

It's unlikely that both were secured, obviously.

Where did you get the idea that that is a requirement in a home (although it may be a requirement when being transported).

If it was his parent's gun/ammo, I'd be for prosecuting them for, at least, manslaughter. I'm not against gun ownership, just not by nutters, criminals and irresponsible people. The thing is, how do you enforce that?

Disarming the general public, short of establishing a police state and guaranteeing that all individuals are disarmed, is also impossible or impractical.

Edited October 23, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Credo]

Guns are somewhat unique. Unlike knives, it doesn't require the user to be up-close-and-personal with the victim. Young people and guns are a very, very dangerous mixture. They don't fully realize that many times the effect of the gun is not reversible.

[MaxYakov]

there is no getting away from the evil that oversupply of weapons provides opportunity for.

The gun lobby imbeciles nauseating platitude that guns dont kill people, people do, is easy to counter:if people dont have guns then they cant shoot people. Another argument from the intellectually challenged gun lobby is that schools should have armed guards. How would an armed guard have made an ounce of difference in this case? Would that same armed guard in the right place at the right time have shot a 12 year old dead? Is it justifiable? Madness, madness that such a question should even arise.

Home of the brave, land of the free it is time to repeal your amendment to carry arms to protect the men and women of your future in the name of sanity.

I agree.

but unfortunately there are so many guns in the USA (75 per 100 people) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_map_of_civilian_gun_ownership_-_2nd_color_scheme.svg

That it seems impossible to repeal the amendment and collect all the guns. I realize Australia did just that but I doubt they had as many guns in circulation. Also, their population is less than 1/10 th the size of USA.

Having said that, the US should begin passing laws that reduce the number of assault rifles and other types. Also, the background checks should be universal, extensive, and on-going. There are things to be done, yes.

Sure, let's grab all the assault rifles, and forget about the shotguns, huh?

"On September 16, 2013, Aaron Alexis, a lone gunman armed initially with a shotgun, fatally shot twelve people and injured three others in a mass shooting at the headquarters of the Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) inside the Washington Navy Yard in Southeast Washington, D.C.."

Washington Navy Yard shooting (Wiki)

And, sure, let's pass all the laws and then do not enforce them, like several examples of law non-enforcement in Thailand. The USA gun laws are obviously impossible or impractical to enforce as it is. How would 100% confiscation of firearms in the USA be enforceable, either (even if it had gotten the backing of the general public)?

Edited October 23, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Minnehaha]

there is no getting away from the evil that oversupply of weapons provides opportunity for.

The gun lobby imbeciles nauseating platitude that guns dont kill people, people do, is easy to counter:if people dont have guns then they cant shoot people. Another argument from the intellectually challenged gun lobby is that schools should have armed guards. How would an armed guard have made an ounce of difference in this case? Would that same armed guard in the right place at the right time have shot a 12 year old dead? Is it justifiable? Madness, madness that such a question should even arise.

Home of the brave, land of the free it is time to repeal your amendment to carry arms to protect the men and women of your future in the name of sanity.

I agree.

but unfortunately there are so many guns in the USA (75 per 100 people) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_map_of_civilian_gun_ownership_-_2nd_color_scheme.svg

That it seems impossible to repeal the amendment and collect all the guns. I realize Australia did just that but I doubt they had as many guns in circulation. Also, their population is less than 1/10 th the size of USA.

Having said that, the US should begin passing laws that reduce the number of assault rifles and other types. Also, the background checks should be universal, extensive, and on-going. There are things to be done, yes.

Sure, let's grab all the assault rifles, and forget about the shotguns, huh?

"On September 16, 2013, Aaron Alexis, a lone gunman armed initially with a shotgun, fatally shot twelve people and injured three others in a mass shooting at the headquarters of the Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA) inside the Washington Navy Yard in Southeast Washington, D.C.."

Washington Navy Yard shooting (Wiki)

And, sure, let's pass all the laws and then do not enforce them, like several examples of law non-enforcement in Thailand. The USA gun laws are obviously impossible or impractical to enforce as it is. How would 100% confiscation of firearms in the USA be enforceable, either (even if it had gotten the backing of the general public)?

what makes you say / think laws are not being enforced?

carrying a concealed weapon is legal in many states.

Your Navy Yard citation is particularly poignant because he had already shot up a guys car tires, shot the ceiling in his apartment cause his neighbors were noisy, and been discharged from the Army cause of problems. Why should he be allowed a firearm? Did he violate any laws with these acts? Is there a law in place to remove someone's firearms if they do things like this? Perhaps you are right that this is lax enforcement. I don't hear anyone saying the police should have dealt with the situation differently.

who suggested confiscating all the guns? I said this was unrealistic. I suggested better laws and more restrictions, as first steps.

[F430murci]

5-year-old Texas boy accidentally kills himself with napping babysitter's gun

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/22/21084041-5-year-old-texas-boy-accidentally-kills-himself-with-napping-babysitters-gun?lite

[ronrat]

5-year-old Texas boy accidentally kills himself with napping babysitter's gun

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/22/21084041-5-year-old-texas-boy-accidentally-kills-himself-with-napping-babysitters-gun?lite

Can't afford a phone but can afford a hand gun. If that doesn't tell you something about priorities in the USA nothing will. 2 lives ruined.

[sustento]

See, I told you the arguements would start. But like true to form, people take one example out of 300 million and blame an entire nation. And still the so called educated can't recognize its a serious social issue with "people" and human behaviour. Because you bury your heads in the sand and simply irgnor the facts, I guess "Gangs", Bullies, and mentally ill people are not the problem. But guns are? We need to start seriously thinking of the influence that extreme video games are having on our youth. Video games have become so realistic they now train special forces with them. Get a clue people. They are fun for those mature enough to deal with it or are they really mature enough?

As I don't have a dog in the fight may I ask you what your solution to the problem might be?

Honestly, all the so called experts have been tackling this problem for a long time. No one has found the solution yet. As someone else mentioned they need to go in a different direction and not just keep writings laws to ban things. A problem world wide is the growth of gangs and getting mor violent. Even Thailand has them. I think it should start at an early age. Many schools have started anti bulling and anti gang campaigns. But I also think there needs to be more social behaviour training kids are not getting at home. JMHO.

That's it? You just shrug your shoulders and wait for the next bout of slaughter?

[NxaiPan]

See, I told you the arguements would start. But like true to form, people take one example out of 300 million and blame an entire nation. And still the so called educated can't recognize its a serious social issue with "people" and human behaviour. Because you bury your heads in the sand and simply irgnor the facts, I guess "Gangs", Bullies, and mentally ill people are not the problem. But guns are? We need to start seriously thinking of the influence that extreme video games are having on our youth. Video games have become so realistic they now train special forces with them. Get a clue people. They are fun for those mature enough to deal with it or are they really mature enough?

As I don't have a dog in the fight may I ask you what your solution to the problem might be?

Honestly, all the so called experts have been tackling this problem for a long time. No one has found the solution yet. As someone else mentioned they need to go in a different direction and not just keep writings laws to ban things. A problem world wide is the growth of gangs and getting mor violent. Even Thailand has them. I think it should start at an early age. Many schools have started anti bulling and anti gang campaigns. But I also think there needs to be more social behaviour training kids are not getting at home. JMHO.

That's it? You just shrug your shoulders and wait for the next bout of slaughter?

Until enough Americans think that the situation is beyond acceptable, these type of shootings will probably happen about once every 6 weeks on average.

[itsrebel]

And now this. A 13 yo. Shot dead by the police for carrying an assault rifle replica. Who asked what an armed guard would do in s school? The answer is shoot the kid seven times.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24648974

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[chuckd]

And now this. A 13 yo. Shot dead by the police for carrying an assault rifle replica. Who asked what an armed guard would do in s school? The answer is shoot the kid seven times.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24648974

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

All the kid had to do was drop the plastic AK-47 replica as requested and he would be telling his fellow gang members how he fooled the police.

This will come close to winning the 2013 Darwin Award.

[Credo]

We hope the boy spoke and understood English. He was in school, but depending on how long he had been in the States, he may not have understood.

Oh, and kids, by the way, don't always do as they are told. Unfortunate, in this instance. Very unfortunate.

[NeverSure]

And now this. A 13 yo. Shot dead by the police for carrying an assault rifle replica. Who asked what an armed guard would do in s school? The answer is shoot the kid seven times.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24648974

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

All the kid had to do was drop the plastic AK-47 replica as requested and he would be telling his fellow gang members how he fooled the police.

This will come close to winning the 2013 Darwin Award.

I suspect it was "suicide by cop." He's reported to be a very smart and talented kid. These replicas are required by Federal Law to have bright fluorescent tips on the barrel. This one didn't have that, indicating some effort to paint over it.

And yes, 13 year olds commit suicide. This kid, instead of dropping the gun as ordered, instead according to witnesses turned toward the police, raising the barrel. He's not that stupid.

In a situation like that, police have no choice. They don't have time to decide if the gun, which is designed to look real, is real or a toy, and if it's a real AK, could mow them down.

I doubt that the kid was dumb enough to carry a realistic toy with no fluorescent tip down the street, and then turn it on the cops if he wanted to live.

It's a real shame and a lot of people including the officers will be devastated by it. It's so sad for the parents and friends.

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

Well, here we go again....ALL the anti gun idiots who know everything about everything when it comes to crime but can't see the reality in front of them. It's people and society that's the cause of all issues. People kill people! People are the cause for whatever screwed reason they have. Guns just don't go out by thenselves and go off. Not do cars hit other cars or people and kill by themselves. Human intervention did this. It's so easy to blame an inanimate object and thr human. Wants some statics? Here you go. And you need to follow all the links ad sources before you run off at the mouth saying they are lies. I even helped you out by listing a couple of the links.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/12/11/gun-crime-soars-in-england-where-guns-are-banned-n1464528

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-154307/Gun-crime-soars-35.html

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/29/justice/us-violent-crime/index.html

Point is, even in countries who "ban" guns, gun crimes are up! And surprisingly in the US, gun crimes are down. So argue away.

yeah yeah, say it again maybe it will make sense. If a child has no access to a gun, it cant shoot anyone.

is that so hard to understand?

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

all weapons should be biometrically coded to ONLY a single user, all bullets should be identifiable to that user.

that way, kid steals gun, gun doesn't work.

if owner shoots someone, there is no doubt as to who fired the bullet.

[Chicog]

That will probably happen once they start selling Phasers.