Can we extinguish the corruption in Thailand?

[quiuvo]

"SAI NOI, Thailand In a weed-covered parking lot on the outskirts of Bangkok, tens of millions of dollars of never-used firefighting equipment sits decaying, punished by bouts of searing heat, monsoon rains and a flood that swamped the area two years ago."

We are talking about $180 million dollars of equipment. Two of the individuals involved fled Thailand after a ten + year sentence.

[AYJAYDEE]

did you manage to rid your home country of corruption before you came to thailand??

[quiuvo]

The corruption here is like my country 60 years ago. I'm not naive. All countries have some form of corruption. If you think this country is at par with all others then that is your prerogative.

[Swiss1960]

"WE" can not do that... it is up to the Thai people to do this, only they can

- stop paying tea money

- elect other people into government

- voice their disgust about corruption

problem is... their seems to be no leader who is interested in that task...

Edited October 24, 2013 by Swiss1960

[AYJAYDEE]

The corruption here is like my country 60 years ago. I'm not naive. All countries have some form of corruption. If you think this country is at par with all others then that is your prerogative.

the major banks in america almost brought the entire financial system of the world to its knees and not a single one of the bastards went to jail and many of them are in the obama administration. and you think thailand is in a league of its own?? lol

[quiuvo]

Public versus private. No comparison.

[AYJAYDEE]

Public versus private. No comparison.

lol! the fact that the justice department and the fed knew what was going on, congressmen tore down regulation and some of the pigs sit in cabinet is not public?? lol

[h90]

The corruption here is like my country 60 years ago. I'm not naive. All countries have some form of corruption. If you think this country is at par with all others then that is your prerogative.

I think there is also a lot corruption in the west, just it is better hidden. More professional managed.

[CharlieH]

Same old story the world over, power, money & greed !

[quiuvo]

We are getting of topic somewhat but who said the JD new about it? The gov. Did tear down some regulations because one party is opposed to regulations. You can lol all you want but it seems to me that the quarter inch concrete on the streets says how far back Thailand is regarding corruption.

[Swiss1960]

The corruption here is like my country 60 years ago. I'm not naive. All countries have some form of corruption. If you think this country is at par with all others then that is your prerogative.

the major banks in america almost brought the entire financial system of the world to its knees and not a single one of the bastards went to jail and many of them are in the obama administration. and you think thailand is in a league of its own?? lol

What happened in the financial system had nothing to do with corruption. This was the actions of few greedy crooks who hooked up in a conspiracy in order to cheat everybody who was stupid (and mostly also greedy) enough to trust them with the money for the promised high earnings... you should review the definition of corruption.

[Sigurris]

We can't change it but we can actively refuse to become part of it. Easier said than done though. It is up to Thailand's people to change this unfortunate part of life.

[AYJAYDEE]

The corruption here is like my country 60 years ago. I'm not naive. All countries have some form of corruption. If you think this country is at par with all others then that is your prerogative.

the major banks in america almost brought the entire financial system of the world to its knees and not a single one of the bastards went to jail and many of them are in the obama administration. and you think thailand is in a league of its own?? lol

What happened in the financial system had nothing to do with corruption. This was the actions of few greedy crooks who hooked up in a conspiracy in order to cheat everybody who was stupid (and mostly also greedy) enough to trust them with the money for the promised high earnings... you should review the definition of corruption.

lol! the fed and the finance dept knew exactly what was happening and when it became obvious that these pigs were guilty , the justice department chose to leave them alone and obama put some of them in cabinet! nothing o do with corruption?? hahahahaah

[David48]

I leave weighty questions like this up to the Thai Population.

When they get sick enough of it for action ... they will.

Till then ... not much will change.

One thing I do know for a fact, my time here is much more enjoyable contemplating the things that I can change, things I have influence over.

I'm not defending corruption ... I'm just not contemplating corruption.

I must prefer to think of my life in Thailand, names for the children to be born in a few months, helping the 16 yo with her English homework, fishing the Dam with the boy, relaxing with a Scotch and Soda by the Fish Pond with the gf's Parents who, luckily, don't speak a word of English, lifting the fly cover of the various offerings on the kitchen table to contemplate which meals I can stomach, giving the dog a well earned scratch ... those kind of things.

Do I contemplate when the Thais will swap their corruption model for the corruption model employed in the West ... hardly.

But, it's nice that you are doing that for me ...

.

[cpofc]

We? Sure, I'll get right on it. 'To the Bat Pole Robin'.

BTW up you up to speed on what has been going on in Australia recently?

In no way am I defending corruption in the LOS, but be let us be mindful of hypocracy. Pointing a finger at Thailand means you have three pointing back at you.

The ‘perfect injustice’: is Australia more corrupt than we think?

Author: Edward Spence - Senior Research Fellow at the ARC Special Research Centre for Applied Philosophy and Public Ethics at Charles Sturt University

According to Plato, corruption is the ‘perfect injustice’ appearing to be good and just when you are not. Flickr/Erlend Aasland

Corruption is pervasive, diverse and present in almost all areas of society. From the “greed is good” heyday of the 1980s that encompassed the rise and fall of corporate high-flyers such as Christopher Skase, right through to the 2000s and the spectacular collapses of Enron and WorldCom in the US and HIH in Australia, the News of the World phone-hacking scandal, corruption seems to continue unabated.

The new year, filled as usual with good will and hope, proved no different. We are only half-way through February (not even the longest or cruellest month) and already we are confronted with the ICAC Investigation of alleged corruption in the financial and political affairs of Eddie Obeid, the ongoing saga of Craig Thomson, including criminal and civil charges, and now the staggering news of tsunami proportions: that the social compass of the nation, the holy grail of what’s good, decent and noble beyond the murkiness and double-dealings and back-stabbings of politics is also allegedly corrupt to the core.

According to the Australian Crime Commission’s ongoing investigation, sports corruption across all codes is rife with extensive links to organised crime and match-fixing. Who would have believed it? Yet we should not be surprised.

Plato the venerable philosopher anticipated corruption more than 2500 years ago. He foresaw what happens when power, deception, secrecy and concealment and the abuse of trust converge.

In the Republic, Glaucon asks Socrates who could be expected to behave justly if presented with the power to become invisible and do whatever one liked without fear of detection and punishment. The Myth of Gyges in Book 2 of Plato’s Republic is about corruption: a condition of total deception by which the unjust make themselves appear just and proper.

Plato labels this the “perfect injustice” appearing just when one is not. Gyges, a simple shepherd used a magical ring that rendered him invisible to take the place of a king. He used its power to gain authority, a position of trust, and to commit crimes under a cloak of invisibility that served his interest rather than the common good; all the while maintaining an outward pretence of justice and propriety. He did this with total impunity.

It is not inconceivable that if Gyges lived in Australia today, he might have also been awarded the Order of Australia for services to the public and the common good. Plato was not short on irony.

The financial and human costs of corruption have been and are enormous. Billions, if not trillions of dollars have been lost to both corporations and shareholders - in the case of Enron, employees who had invested most of their life savings in that company lost everything.

Reputations have been destroyed, lives turned upside down, and a number of heads of corporations and institutions have been imprisoned. Political corruption in the Watergate case forced President Nixon to resign. The social cost is incalculable: the loss of trust, which is essential for social cohesion and our democratic way of life.

And this brings us back to Plato. His Myth of Gyges clearly demonstrates how things can come apart and go terribly wrong for a society that allows conditions of perfect injustice to fester: an unwholesome collusion of power that involves the lack of accountability, the abuse of public trust, and an exclusive motive for self-gain that overrides the motive for the public good, all perpetrated in secrecy and under the pretence of “public propriety”.

Fortunately for us good journalism still exists to ferret out and expose corruption. Acting like a Platonic “guardian”, the Guardian brought the News of the World affair to light. Fairfax publications such as The Sydney Morning Herald and the Australian Financial Review, as well as News Limited’s The Australian, have also in recent days been providing in depth coverage and analysis of the ICAC Obeid investigation.

In an age where information has become a valuable marketable commodity we need good, vigilant and ethical journalism more than ever. We also need the inculcation of an ethical culture within all the estates of democracy – the government, the media, the police, the church and sport. The moral of Plato’s Myth of Gyges is that ultimately behaving badly is bad for everyone including bad for one’s own self-interest. Being good is its own reward precisely because it pays to think and act ethically. Honest people may not have money to burn but neither do they get burned by greed for money and power.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2013/09/30/3857148.htm

Edited October 24, 2013 by cpofc

[Berkshire]

The corruption here is like my country 60 years ago. I'm not naive. All countries have some form of corruption. If you think this country is at par with all others then that is your prerogative.

the major banks in america almost brought the entire financial system of the world to its knees and not a single one of the bastards went to jail and many of them are in the obama administration. and you think thailand is in a league of its own?? lol

What happened in the financial system had nothing to do with corruption. This was the actions of few greedy crooks who hooked up in a conspiracy in order to cheat everybody who was stupid (and mostly also greedy) enough to trust them with the money for the promised high earnings... you should review the definition of corruption.

The financial crisis in America involved both greed and corruption. Many were complicit, including financial institutions, rating agencies, university professors, traders/brokers, and yes, senior US government officials. Most were sophisticated enough to hide behind various loopholes so that the regulators and the sheeps (i.e., public-at-large including yourself) wouldn't be able to recognize that it was in fact corruption on a grand scale.

[HeijoshinCool]

Sure, I think you could.

But you'd have to have an awful lot of money, to pay someone off to get it done.

[HeijoshinCool]

The corruption here is like my country 60 years ago. I'm not naive. All countries have some form of corruption. If you think this country is at par with all others then that is your prerogative.

the major banks in america almost brought the entire financial system of the world to its knees and not a single one of the bastards went to jail and many of them are in the obama administration. and you think thailand is in a league of its own?? lol

The difference is, with one act of corruption, the bankers each bought a new super-yacht.

The cops here bought 2-1/2 bowls of noodle soup.

[NewlyMintedThai]

WE can stop paying tea money, too.

[David48]

WE can stop paying tea money, too.

Are you a coffee drinker?

[seajae]

I dont think anyone disputes corruption is everywhere in the world but that here in Thailand it is just so blatantly in the open. I have never seen anything like it till I came here, every govt department lives on it as do many others. When you have to pay tea money to a govt department for them to actually do what they are paid to do by their employers it is pretty bad but then to watch the politicians take it to an even higher level it is just shameless.

[uptheos]

"We are talking about $180 million dollars of equipment. Two of the individuals involved fled Thailand after a ten + year sentence"

I'm only a guest here mate, so I'm told ad nauseum, therefore what's it got to do with me.......or you?

[bocceball1]

“A man who has never gone to school may steal a freight car; but if he has a university education, he may steal the whole railroad.”
---Theodore Roosevelt

[NewlyMintedThai]

The Austrians were just as guilty in the fire truck scandal as the Thais were. One hand washes the other...

[ezzra]

Yes you can... but you will need to use one giant humongous fire extinguisher to do that...

[GuestHouse]

The corruption here is like my country 60 years ago. I'm not naive. All countries have some form of corruption. If you think this country is at par with all others then that is your prerogative.

the major banks in america almost brought the entire financial system of the world to its knees and not a single one of the bastards went to jail and many of them are in the obama administration. and you think thailand is in a league of its own?? lol

Once again the lazy argument that we can find something bad, worse or more disgusting elsewhere so we should ingore things that are wrong right infront of us.

Its and argument with the logical conclusion that if we find a bad enough attrocity elsewhere in the world we can do as we please because over there is worse.

[NewlyMintedThai]

No...it means clean your own house before you try to clean your neighbor's.

[Alwyn]

Who is "we"? What on earth has corruption here got to do with me? Why would any non-Thai be so presumptuous to think they can cure corruption in Thailand (or any other country you don't come from)? Mind your own business and leave that stuff to the locals to sort - they never will so what makes you think "we" can?

[GuestHouse]

The financial crisis in America involved both greed and corruption. Many were complicit, including financial institutions, rating agencies, university professors, traders/brokers, and yes, senior US government officials. Most were sophisticated enough to hide behind various loopholes so that the regulators and the sheeps (i.e., public-at-large including yourself) wouldn't be able to recognize that it was in fact corruption on a grand scale.

I agree wholeheartedly that there was corruption but not in the financial transactions and financial mechanisms that preciptated the crash - Rather in the influence of the finacial sector on the law makers and the willingness of the law makers to be influenced in the period of deregulation of these financial markets. And that wasn't down to this pesident, nor the last incumbant.

Point of note: |Public are Large Incliding Ourselves|

I'd hate for you to become some retrospective prophet who foresaw the doom, warned us but we did not listen. Not that I mind, but its a short step thereafter to blaming us for the mess.

[likewise]

probably going off topic here, haven't read every post, but I wonder why the Thai Goverment doesn't issue an international arrest warrant for both said parties ? Silly question, I know....just want to see what other posters think !

Edited October 24, 2013 by likewise