Refused entry into Singapore

[Liberator]

we all know why they are getting refused, too many go there for immoral purposes and it ruins it for the rest

"they"? so racial profiling is ok?

Try to ignore the troll. That's the only thing that will make them go away.

Like you did?

[moe666]

She was not allowed in for the same reason Thai women have a hard time getting a visa to the US a small minority who have abused their visas in the past have screwed it up for the ones who plan on not breaking the law. Just as a few Thai ladies have abused there vises free entry into japan may cause the free visas to be cancelled.

[tropo]

we all know why they are getting refused, too many go there for immoral purposes and it ruins it for the rest

"they"? so racial profiling is ok?

It has nothing to do with racism or immorality, it's an issue with there being a high probability of young, single Thai (and other SE Asian nations) ladies working illegally,

Edited October 25, 2013 by tropo

[tropo]

@GrantSmith, I think you've summed up the episode rather well, my partner and I are always a tad nervous when presenting ourselves at Immigration desks, if the truth were known I'm probably more concerned than she.

We have only ever encountered one difficult IO and that was at a UK Border post in Paris, all the others have been polite and courteous.

What concerns me about the OP is the apparent refusal of entry without checking her status, not giving her reasons for the refusal or allowing her to make contact with her boyfriend.

IO's have a difficult and thankless job, but I'm struggling to see, on the evidence reported, how they got this one right.

I think the saddest part of the whole sorry episode is the casual acceptance of the outcome by the OP's wife and her sister, because they are Thai.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

As far as the Singapore immigration are concerned, the boyfriend could just as easily be a client. The regular visits kind of point that way too.

The term "boyfriend" is open to interpretation and doesn't carry a lot of weight.

How does she dress?... would be interesting to know.

[tropo]

She was not allowed in for the same reason Thai women have a hard time getting a visa to the US a small minority who have abused their visas in the past have screwed it up for the ones who plan on not breaking the law. Just as a few Thai ladies have abused there vises free entry into japan may cause the free visas to be cancelled.

I think there's more than a few Thai women trying to get into these countries to work illegally.

[build6]

"Border control" is one of the areas where the "functionaries" stamping those little pieces of paper actually have a lot more power than most people imagine.

I understand there has been a court case not too long ago in the US for example where it was determined that, yes apparently, the US border officials CAN in fact seize your laptop and deny you entry and then only return the items to you "when they feel like it" (i.e. potentially never). It's similar all over the world. Denying you entry is not the worst thing they can do - you could be arrested and held, if they "feel it is necessary" -

As far as the Singapore immigration are concerned, the boyfriend could just as easily be a client. The regular visits kind of point that way too.

The term "boyfriend" is open to interpretation and doesn't carry a lot of weight.

I've heard of several incidents like this. You will never be allowed to contact anybody locally when denied entry (even if logically speaking they could clear everything up). The immigration officers aren't interested in some random guy showing up and stating all sorts of unverifiable facts about when/where/how they met and fell in love etc. You will never be outright told why you are being denied entry, because apparently their protocols deem telling you "it's because I think you're a prostitute" inappropriate. This can be very confusing for false positives.

"Being Thai" is not as much of a risk as being Vietnamese. I understand there was an incident where the girl being refused entry turned out to be a Vietnamese big shot's daughter on a shopping trip but I don't think they changed their procedures as a result.

I'm curious if the person denied entry was booked into a classy (i.e. expensive) hotel, or was she going to stay with her boyfriend? I think this is one of the categorisation flags ("where are you staying?").

I quite like Singapore but they do have some strange processes at Changi. I fly often from BKK to SIN and on numerous occasions all the passengers are required to go through an airport security check in the normal departure lounge as soon as leaving the aircraft. I don't know what this proves - I always politely ask the head security guy why they are doing this. "Oh its for your safety sir " to which I point to the aircraft parked peacefully at the gate "but we have already landed safely" I say knowing full well I am wasting my time. If Singapore airlines or security have suspicions about passengers why do they let the aircraft depart BKK?

This happens when the Singapore security services don't actually trust the security procedures of the departing airport. They can't outright say it, but you'll notice their "random checkpoints" end up always targeting the same few countries. What I'd heard was that there were past incidents of big shots in their own countries flying in to Singapore with handguns in their luggage (having been waved on to board with a bow).

Yes she has visited often before, no she has never overstayed though of course being Thai she doesn't need a visa, she has never worked there and never come to the attention of the authorities, she just visits her boyfriend.

Yes I will follow it up, subject to her ok, as I say at the moment she just shrugs her shoulders, but whether they will communicate with me as a third party I have no idea.

you'll get some boilerplate response with no real information. not needing a visa just means for the vast majority of people you can just walk in, but it's never guaranteed. if she needs to come in she needs to contact the embassy and work through any potential issues ("why was I denied entry? is there something I can apply for that will prevent this very expensive thing from happening again?") and there is no way they are going to discuss this with someone other than the specific individual in question.

Alternatively ... there's something she isn't telling you.

Edited October 25, 2013 by build6

[David48]

Again go to Geylang and see how well organised it is. Scouts on every corner, mobiles to inform. The pimps are 2 minutes ahead of the police (mind you, it is allowed to happen).

Over the years, doing Visa runs, I choose to fly into different cities for variety.

Hadn't been to Singapore for maybe 20 years ... so Singapore it was.

Didn't know one place from the other, chose the hotel based on price and prominatity

to the train network.

Yep, you guessed it ... Geylang. No adverse comment in the Hotel reviews.

WOW ... it's not NANA ... but it's interesting.

Above, Bikkii has it spot on ... exactly what happens.

I was just hanging around and struck up a conversation with a Singapore guy my age ...

actually, I think he spoke first. He was one of the spotters.

A most enjoyable night watching the theatre of the night take place - Singapore style.

As for taking a Thai girl into Singapore ... my lassie has been there twice, by herself

as she changes flights.

Of course she has the onward ticket.

So, my take-out is that it's always sensible to evidence to back-up the claim for anyone

that they are bona-fide visitor.

Heck, I get asked in my home Airport in Australia for proof of evidence when leaving Thailand

if I didn't have a Visa ... not every-time ... but sometimes.

.

[ChanJoonYee]

Thai nationals can enter Singapore without a visa. Why was the lady refused entry?

Yes they can, but as I said "she claims the IO gave her no reason other than you're not coming in this time, but certainly she was given no paperwork and there was no entry in her passport", as you know being eligible and even having a visa doesn't guarantee entry.

She did add that there were other Thais in the "refusal lounge" waiting to be returned home.

My wife (Thai) was refused entry into Singapore on her second visit within the same year. She was refused entry on her first visit at almost every port in Indonesia and Malaysia until we showed our marriage certificate.

[ChanJoonYee]

I hope you are able to pursue the matter and find an exact reason for their refusal and that you can post the information here. During her previous visits did she ever stay beyond the period of her Visa or did she ever have any problems with the authorities? I just find it incredible that someone has adhered to the laws and rules during previous visits but that they suddenly now react in this way?

Someone who visits often as an independent tourist is automatically a suspect. Thais who join shopping tours are never refused even if they visit Singapore once a month.

[ChanJoonYee]

I hope you are able to pursue the matter and find an exact reason for their refusal and that you can post the information here. During her previous visits did she ever stay beyond the period of her Visa or did she ever have any problems with the authorities? I just find it incredible that someone has adhered to the laws and rules during previous visits but that they suddenly now react in this way?

Yes she has visited often before, no she has never overstayed though of course being Thai she doesn't need a visa, she has never worked there and never come to the attention of the authorities, she just visits her boyfriend.

Yes I will follow it up, subject to her ok, as I say at the moment she just shrugs her shoulders, but whether they will communicate with me as a third party I have no idea.

They are not obliged to explain. It is unlikely she'll ever be allowed in as an independent traveller from now on. Ask her to join a shopping tour the next time.

[ChanJoonYee]

Thai nationals can enter Singapore without a visa. Why was the lady refused entry?

All countries have the right to refuse entry. Singapore authorities are well aware that a lot of Thai ladies going there for 14 day trips are working in various establishments. They are probably basing it on the amount of trip, and how frequent. It's unfortunate, that genuine tourists may get tarred with the same brush as the hookers that are in and out of Singapore frequently.

They make mistakes from time to time, but Thais are among the biggest spenders in Singapore after the Chinese and Indonesians. This shows that Singapore immigration is quite efficient in letting only the right people through.

[ChanJoonYee]

we all know why they are getting refused, too many go there for immoral purposes and it ruins it for the rest

Immoral in your eyes, a living to millions worldwide !!

I am not in charge of SIN immigration, they are and in their eyes prostitution is immoral, hence the problem.

No, it's illegal. Not immoral

Surprise. Surprise. Prostitution is legal in Singapore, but they deal very severely with those who engage girls <18.

[jmccarty]

I lived in Singapore for 25 years. Immigration has always been like that. An IO sees what in his or her opinion is too many visit stamps and decides to turn back Thais, Filipinas, Indonesians, all girls! Not Chinese though! And Malaysians are not turned back.

If you are a Singapore resident or citizen traveling with the the unfortunate girl by flight, they may let her in for 2 more weeks, but not more. If she stays away for 6 months or so, she may get in again but those multiple visits are an eye sore to the IO. Nothing done illegal, they just don't like it.

Best thing to do is renew the passport.

And, they do not need to give a reason!

If you escalate it, or try to and are sent to a supervisor, more than likely will be logged as a trouble maker.

Again, best thing to do is renew the passport.

I have a Singaporean friend with a Filipina wife that tried to pull the "I'm Singaporean and have my rights" on an IO and his Filipina wife, also supporting her man vocally, got a ban from entry for a period.

Immigration (or The ICA) is The Man if you are a visitor in Singapore. No clear rule on the number of times a person (or specifically a female under 30) from a visa exempt country can visit there.

Reason is that it has been abused in the past. Many Singaporean pub owners and pimps make tax free money off of the girls from these countries and tax free money is a serious issue with the Singapore government.

So there is a method to the madness.

[cbluck58]

This is not uncommon and for all the obvious reasons however, it amazes me that Singapore Immigration Officials would imagine anyone wanting to come to Singapore unless they had to or anyone staying longer than absolutely necessary.

What is the attraction of staying in an overpriced open prison populated by persons incapable of independent thought or action, manipulated by a Government that is only interested in profiteering from multi national corporations.

You wouldn't think of living in a shopping Mall at home so why stay in Singapore.

You got it - I detest the place........

[IMA_FARANG]

I remember, some years ago, backpackers crrossing into Singapore from Malaysia were being told their hair was too long.

The choices given were a haircut or no entry into Singapore.

When I took my then Thai girlfriend, and her 3 children, to Singapore in 1979 she was asked at the airport in Singapore if she was married to me.

She said no, and I was then asked by immigration if she and her family was traveling with me.

I said yes and nothing further was asked, and she was stamped in.

At the hotel, when we checked in, the male receptionist asked me if she was my wife.

I said yes, (a lie) and he didn't ask anything more.

Thai women do have problems getting into Singapore .... it's been seen before.

Edited October 26, 2013 by IMA_FARANG

[lomatopo]

Some say there are quotas on allowed single female visitors at any one time to be in the country, and once that figure is met more scrutiny is involved. Obviously this has to be managed on an hourly basis.

Just Google "Singapore Denied Entry".

By far the worst situation is one where someone has been allowed entry. goes for a day visit overland to Jahor Bahru, and then is denied (re-) entry, while all their belongings are still in a hotel in Singapore.

Personally I think this should be done at the point of departure, but understand the quota is better managed at SIN ICA.

[thonglorjimmy]

I find it hard to believe what op has posted. The sil got to have history otherwise no reason. My frd girl friend came in on Monday by bus. She was held up for questioning. Simple q, what's she's doing here and where she's staying. First time in SG. Part time student. Only got address on a piece of paper to show for.

Wouldn't she be more suspicious then op SIL who has been in SG multiple times?

You may find it hard to believe what I posted, based on what I'm not sure, but the fact remains that my SIL is a regular girl doing no more than visiting her long time boyfriend in Singapore, and she has no "history" as you so nicely put it.

My wife and I went out for dinner with them last night, and were able to glean a bit more information.

She has been to Singapore twice this year, the boyfriend has been to Thailand three times. She last visited in August, staying for three weeks, she was returning on Thursday to attend a friends wedding today, and she was returning home on Wednesday, she had her return flight tickets with her.

She was intending to stay at her boyfriends parents home in Singapore, as she normally does. She didn't have the wedding invite with her, her boyfriend had it at home, she is just a regular kid and didn't even consider it necessary.

She presented herself at the Border Control and she told me that the IO asked her the purpose of the visit, he then examined her passport noticed she had only been in Singapore a few weeks earlier and told her she wasn't coming in this time. She was taken to another room where she was asked the same questions and she was told she was being sent home.

She is a young woman, 22, and dressed accordingly and comfortably, she was actually wearing a long dress and carrying a small rucksack with enough clothes for six nights, including an outfit for the wedding.

She asked the second officer if she could get her boyfriend to talk to him and offered her phone, she says that the officer refused to speak to her boyfriend and kept hold of her phone.

She said she wasn't asked where she was staying in Singapore or whether she works in Thailand, she works in the family furniture business in Bangkok.

As I said earlier she is a very quiet lass, to quiet for her own good sometimes, and certainly isn't the sort of person to challenge authority.

She was able to contact her boyfriend from the "refusal lounge" and he purchased a ticket to Bangkok for later in the day.

She was flying with Thai and they put her on a later flight, adding that this sort of thing is becoming more and more common.

I asked if she wanted me to follow it up and she doesn't want me to as she is scared of the consequences, likewise my wife doesn't want me to follow it up as she doesn't want our name flagged up when we visit Singapore. The boyfriend advised me that he intends following it up discretely.

The whole episode has left a bad taste in my mouth, I know IO's have a difficult job, but they have got this one really wrong. That she wasn't given any sort of refusal notice or right of appeal worries me, it seems these people can act in a cavalier way and there is no accountability.

As a result of what I believe to be a wrong decision, this girl is now flagged up as having been refused entry into a country and this will need to be declared on any application for a visa for the UK or countries that ask that question as part of the visa application process, and will probably have a hard time when she wants to visit Singapore.

Edited October 26, 2013 by thonglorjimmy

[theoldgit]

Just Google "Singapore Denied Entry".

I've just done that, quite an eye opener and quite worrying.

[shaurene]

It was sad, but you have to understand most immigration officers are very suspicious regarding Thai lady's arriving and intending to work in the sex trade.

One time my wife came to New Zealand and I was waiting at the airport for her. She was questioned for a long time buy a male IO. She had the correct visa but they suspected she came to work, told the guy her husband is waiting outside but she still had her old passport with her other surname in it, then she remembered she had her Thai ID card changed to my surname and showed him this, he was then very apologetic and closed his booth and escorted her to the baggage carousel and all the way to the custom stand and he was very nice to her.

[Bkungbank]

Next time go to Sentosa Genting Casino get a member card, show to immigration that you are addicted gambler few of my Thai friends do that and get pass.

[GrantSmith]

Next time go to Sentosa Genting Casino get a member card, show to immigration that you are addicted gambler few of my Thai friends do that and get pass.

and by Sentosa Genting Casino, you mean Resorts World Sentosa Integrated Resort..

Singapore and their quirky nuances...

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Will27]

I find it hard to believe what op has posted. The sil got to have history otherwise no reason. My frd girl friend came in on Monday by bus. She was held up for questioning. Simple q, what's she's doing here and where she's staying. First time in SG. Part time student. Only got address on a piece of paper to show for.

Wouldn't she be more suspicious then op SIL who has been in SG multiple times?

You may find it hard to believe what I posted, based on what I'm not sure, but the fact remains that my SIL is a regular girl doing no more than visiting her long time boyfriend in Singapore, and she has no "history" as you so nicely put it.

My wife and I went out for dinner with them last night, and were able to glean a bit more information.

She has been to Singapore twice this year, the boyfriend has been to Thailand three times. She last visited in August, staying for three weeks, she was returning on Thursday to attend a friends wedding today, and she was returning home on Wednesday, she had her return flight tickets with her.

She was intending to stay at her boyfriends parents home in Singapore, as she normally does. She didn't have the wedding invite with her, her boyfriend had it at home, she is just a regular kid and didn't even consider it necessary.

She presented herself at the Border Control and she told me that the IO asked her the purpose of the visit, he then examined her passport noticed she had only been in Singapore a few weeks earlier and told her she wasn't coming in this time. She was taken to another room where she was asked the same questions and she was told she was being sent home.

She is a young woman, 22, and dressed accordingly and comfortably, she was actually wearing a long dress and carrying a small rucksack with enough clothes for six nights, including an outfit for the wedding.

She asked the second officer if she could get her boyfriend to talk to him and offered her phone, she says that the officer refused to speak to her boyfriend and kept hold of her phone.

She said she wasn't asked where she was staying in Singapore or whether she works in Thailand, she works in the family furniture business in Bangkok.

As I said earlier she is a very quiet lass, to quiet for her own good sometimes, and certainly isn't the sort of person to challenge authority.

She was able to contact her boyfriend from the "refusal lounge" and he purchased a ticket to Bangkok for later in the day.

She was flying with Thai and they put her on a later flight, adding that this sort of thing is becoming more and more common.

I asked if she wanted me to follow it up and she doesn't want me to as she is scared of the consequences, likewise my wife doesn't want me to follow it up as she doesn't want our name flagged up when we visit Singapore. The boyfriend advised me that he intends following it up discretely.

The whole episode has left a bad taste in my mouth, I know IO's have a difficult job, but they have got this one really wrong. That she wasn't given any sort of refusal notice or right of appeal worries me, it seems these people can act in a cavalier way and there is no accountability.

As a result of what I believe to be a wrong decision, this girl is now flagged up as having been refused entry into a country and this will need to be declared on any application for a visa for the UK or countries that ask that question as part of the visa application process, and will probably have a hard time when she wants to visit Singapore.

Your story is completely believable. Of course there will be people on here who will try and justify the decision by saying

she must've been dressed scantily etc.

Sometimes you just get a bad call by Immigration and as GrantSmith advised, best to just chalk it up to experience as there's

really nothing that can be done anyway.

You previously said she was with other Thai's who were also refused entry. This makes me believe that there was possibly a

directive from above advising a crackdown.

Going on your last post, I'd say a combination of a short period of time between her last visit, a crackdown by Immigration

and maybe an over officious IO. By not speaking to the girls boyfriend, indicates to me that the decision had already been

made to refuse entry which makes a "crackdown" plausible.

Like I said, sometimes you get a bad call by an IO and there's no point in trying to reason with it as there is no reason.

Doesn't make anyone feel better but best sometimes not to read too much into it.

[theoldgit]

Off topic post removed.

I will say once more, this thread is about Singapore Immigration not the legalities of prostitution throughout the world.

[my friend I]

I was told that people who arrive on budget airlines get more scrutinythan others.

[LOS14]

That's rubbish! Immigration will provide you with a reason for refusal of entry. Shy or not, she is not telling you the full story. There is a criteria which immigration officers work too ( same as most other border crossings).

[Basil B]

Apart from the prostitution (whether legal or not), it is probably more about the aspect of "working" whatever they do, (work permits, tax, money earnt leaving the country, etc).

What is so disappointing is the calase attitude of the authorities not to give a written refusal notice giving good cause.

[thonglorjimmy]

That's rubbish! Immigration will provide you with a reason for refusal of entry. Shy or not, she is not telling you the full story. There is a criteria which immigration officers work too ( same as most other border crossings).

Whilst your expert and in depth analysis of the whole episode is warmly welcome, I'm inclined to believe my SIL, after all I suspect I know her, and her circumstances, better than you.

I am fully aware of the criteria Immigration Officers work to, or as you point out at most [other] border crossings, but in this case they got it wrong.

I believe her when she told us that she was not advised as to the reasons of the refusal nor was any letter given, I have also examined her passport and there is no stamp indicating that she was refused entry.

[thonglorjimmy]

What is so disappointing is the calase attitude of the authorities not to give a written refusal notice giving good cause.

I agree, I think that's what concerns me as much as anything.

Having had time to do as earlier suggested and Google it, it seems that this is far from being a one off.

[rct99q]

we all know why they are getting refused, too many go there for immoral purposes and it ruins it for the rest

Immoral in your eyes, a living to millions worldwide !!

I am not in charge of SIN immigration, they are and in their eyes prostitution is immoral, hence the problem.

No, it's illegal. Not immoral

Funny how those that have to use hookers do not find it immoral (or illegal), some of us who do not have to use hookers do....this does not apply to the "hooker" themselves as to the persons who use them....in my opinion only.

[build6]

They will not give reasons. They are not required to, and so they don't because if you held a letter in your hand stating X and Y you can then start complaining about what fools they are (going to the press with evidence of what an outstanding person has been refused entry etc.). Without any official reasons for refusal of entry you have nothing to go on. You have people already suspecting your SIL, for example.

They are fully aware they will have false positives since they cannot be 100% correct and so this is one of the ways they reduce the amount of grief they have to deal with later.

What I don't know is if whether it makes sense for her to write in to the embassy asking for "clarification" and any information as to how to avoid this happening in the future, maybe writing something about her liking Singapore and wanting to go again many times shopping etc., perhaps alluding to being able to show references etc.; might take some back and forth. The point now is how to deal with the subsequent ramifications of having been denied entry once, as you pointed out. It would look better I think if "yes I have been denied entry once, to Singapore" is followed by something like "I liaised with their Embassy and have never had trouble ever again".

What is so disappointing is the calase attitude of the authorities not to give a written refusal notice giving good cause.

I agree, I think that's what concerns me as much as anything.

Having had time to do as earlier suggested and Google it, it seems that this is far from being a one off.

That's rubbish! Immigration will provide you with a reason for refusal of entry. Shy or not, she is not telling you the full story. There is a criteria which immigration officers work too ( same as most other border crossings).

This is not correct. Denial of entry is not automatically given with reasons (in fact it would be the minority of cases, and generally only for obvious problems like "passport close to expiry" etc.)