Testosterone Levels Falling

[Tolley]

I have just been reading an alarming study on falling testosterone levels via this study which was done in 2002.

http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/newscience/reproduction/2006/2006-1210travisonetal.html

It has probablly gotten a lot worse today but basically in comparable age groups there was a 1.4 percent a year decrease in T levels. This represents quite a lot over a 20 year time period for example.

The study doesnt offer any reason why but it is pretty clear that the degraded food chain which the use of so many chemicals, pesticides herbicides etc is p;robably going to be the cause.

The thing is that is has a lot of implications for mens health as we age. All sorts of diseases are more likely with low T levels.

Scary stuff for the future really.

[tropo]

I'm glad you brought this up as I have a serious question for you.

I took the easy way out several years ago and started TRT, but as you know, once you go that route there's no turning back as you shut down your own natural production. I'm hesitant to rush people to this course of action and perhaps I should have given it more thought before I started TRT.

A friend of mine just came back from the lab with these numbers:

Estradiol (E2): 47.9 pg/ml (normal range: 15 - 45)

Testosterone: 3.86 ng/ml (normal range: 2.8 - 8.0)

As you can see he's near the bottom end of the range for testosterone and just over the top end for E2.

He's 57.

What would you recommend other than supplementing with testosterone?

He really wants to lose weight and is going to the gym frequently. His blood sugar numbers are also just above the pre-diabetic range. We're already taking dietary steps to rectify this.

[Loptr]

Arimidex has been proven to lower E2 levels quickly in men... My E2 level climbed to 84.5 back in the spring of this year and I was placed on Arimidex to lower it. Within 2 months of a low dosage my E2 was down to 18.5.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Loptr

[tropo]

Arimidex has been proven to lower E2 levels quickly in men... My E2 level climbed to 84.5 back in the spring of this year and I was placed on Arimidex to lower it. Within 2 months of a low dosage my E2 was down to 18.5.

Yes, Arimidex (drug name: anastrozole) is very effective at lowering E2. It actually prevents the conversion of testosterone to estrogen (aromatization)... however, a person with an E2 level (my friend in post above) just slightly over the top of the range is not really in need of serious drug intervention. All drugs come with their side effects AND the drug is not legally sold in Thailand as far as I know. You have to buy it blackmarket, and it's very expensive... and even what you buy blackmarket for the steep price it is not Arimidex but a generic copy. I think genuine Arimidex will cost about 5000 baht for 30 tablets, which is a crazy price. A capsule form sells for 2500 baht for 30 caps.

Which leads me to a good question. What are the option of anti-estrogens legally sold in Thailand? Bear in mind that some anti-estrogens stop the conversion (aromatization) process whereas others such as Nolvadex (tamoxifin) stop it from binding to the receptor sites.

High estrogen is a big problem (probably mostly ignored) in older men. You'd think there would be a suitable and cheap drug available.

[Tolley]

Tropo

I will have more details tomorrow I think.

I have just had a blood test and saliva hormone test for T levels and estradiol. I should pick up the results tomorrow hopefully.

I am interested in my numbers as I reckon I am poducing more estrogen than I want to which started in my late forties.

I am seeing a naturopath for this. There are herbs that you can take to block estrogen. You can also take tribulus, siberian ginseng and there are a few other herbs as well to boost t levels .

Your friend also needs to get his liver in good shape because that is very important as well so you should get him on the fresh veggie juices and maybe a milk thistle supplement for the liver.

Diet needs to be addressed eat more broccoli, cauliflower, raw nuts, beef and stay away from beer , junk food etc all of which cause the body to produce more estrogen.

Zinc levels should also be checked as your sex life is somewhat dependent on zinc and most men these days are zinc deficient.

Do heavy weights like squats, bench presses to help naturally boost t levels.

As for the T tests themselves I think from the research I have done the urine tests might just be the best but they require a lot of work and are more expensive. Make sure you get tested early in the morning when T levels are high and do it a few times because i wouldnt rely on one test only.

I am only interested in natural methods for boosting t levels with the diet exercise and herbal and vitamin supplements. I dont think my T levels are really low but if they were I might consider other therapies but I would be concerned that the side effects outweigh the benefits. That is something that would have to very carefully considered. I believe a lot of the therapies are heavy on the liver and that wouldnt suit me at all as I had hep b when i was younger so have to be extra careful with my liver health.

[Tolley]

I'm glad you brought this up as I have a serious question for you.

I took the easy way out several years ago and started TRT, but as you know, once you go that route there's no turning back as you shut down your own natural production. I'm hesitant to rush people to this course of action and perhaps I should have given it more thought before I started TRT.

A friend of mine just came back from the lab with these numbers:

Estradiol (E2): 47.9 pg/ml (normal range: 15 - 45)

Testosterone: 3.86 ng/ml (normal range: 2.8 - 8.0)

As you can see he's near the bottom end of the range for testosterone and just over the top end for E2.

He's 57.

What would you recommend other than supplementing with testosterone?

He really wants to lose weight and is going to the gym frequently. His blood sugar numbers are also just above the pre-diabetic range. We're already taking dietary steps to rectify this.

BTW His T l evels are extremely low because the range quoted in lab tests include all the sick people and old people being tested.

You really need to do a like for like comparison and check the age group mean average to get a better indication but I would say he would be right in the bottom 5-10 percent. If you do a google you can find the charts for age groups and average t levels.

The good news in a way is that he is in poor condition so if he actually manages to turn his general health around his T levels may actually be normal for his age group once he has lost weight and cleaned up his diet and gone on an exercise regime which might take up to a year but would be well worth it.

[danbradster]

I think you're too quick to conclusively blame food additives. There are many other negative trends in the past 20 years. E.g. exercise time versus sitting/computer/tablet/TV. Exercise is good for raising your testosterone, particularly intense exercise. A down-trend in exercise would correlate well with a down-trend in testosterone.

[Tolley]

I think you're too quick to conclusively blame food additives. There are many other negative trends in the past 20 years. E.g. exercise time versus sitting/computer/tablet/TV. Exercise is good for raising your testosterone, particularly intense exercise. A down-trend in exercise would correlate well with a down-trend in testosterone.

It is not me really making that call although if you want to look at the research paper they state that T levels were lower in men who were exposed to chemicals.

Also there has been some research on comparing men who ate organic diet to a normal diet and the men on the organic diet had much higher sperm counts,

And if that doesnt convince you then there is also all the research on animals by geneticists pointing to the same thing about male reproductive capacity falling in many species of animals.

[tropo]

I'm glad you brought this up as I have a serious question for you.

I took the easy way out several years ago and started TRT, but as you know, once you go that route there's no turning back as you shut down your own natural production. I'm hesitant to rush people to this course of action and perhaps I should have given it more thought before I started TRT.

A friend of mine just came back from the lab with these numbers:

Estradiol (E2): 47.9 pg/ml (normal range: 15 - 45)

Testosterone: 3.86 ng/ml (normal range: 2.8 - 8.0)

As you can see he's near the bottom end of the range for testosterone and just over the top end for E2.

He's 57.

What would you recommend other than supplementing with testosterone?

He really wants to lose weight and is going to the gym frequently. His blood sugar numbers are also just above the pre-diabetic range. We're already taking dietary steps to rectify this.

BTW His T l evels are extremely low because the range quoted in lab tests include all the sick people and old people being tested.

You really need to do a like for like comparison and check the age group mean average to get a better indication but I would say he would be right in the bottom 5-10 percent. If you do a google you can find the charts for age groups and average t levels.

The good news in a way is that he is in poor condition so if he actually manages to turn his general health around his T levels may actually be normal for his age group once he has lost weight and cleaned up his diet and gone on an exercise regime which might take up to a year but would be well worth it.

I had him do liver, kidney, CBC and lipid tests. They're all very good.

I'm not really sold on the idea of having normal levels for age. The whole idea of TRT is to bring it back to youthful levels. I wouldn't think that normal levels for a 57 year old is worth aiming for.

[Tolley]

I'm glad you brought this up as I have a serious question for you.

I took the easy way out several years ago and started TRT, but as you know, once you go that route there's no turning back as you shut down your own natural production. I'm hesitant to rush people to this course of action and perhaps I should have given it more thought before I started TRT.

A friend of mine just came back from the lab with these numbers:

Estradiol (E2): 47.9 pg/ml (normal range: 15 - 45)

Testosterone: 3.86 ng/ml (normal range: 2.8 - 8.0)

As you can see he's near the bottom end of the range for testosterone and just over the top end for E2.

He's 57.

What would you recommend other than supplementing with testosterone?

He really wants to lose weight and is going to the gym frequently. His blood sugar numbers are also just above the pre-diabetic range. We're already taking dietary steps to rectify this.

BTW His T l evels are extremely low because the range quoted in lab tests include all the sick people and old people being tested.

You really need to do a like for like comparison and check the age group mean average to get a better indication but I would say he would be right in the bottom 5-10 percent. If you do a google you can find the charts for age groups and average t levels.

The good news in a way is that he is in poor condition so if he actually manages to turn his general health around his T levels may actually be normal for his age group once he has lost weight and cleaned up his diet and gone on an exercise regime which might take up to a year but would be well worth it.

I had him do liver, kidney, CBC and lipid tests. They're all very good.

I'm not really sold on the idea of having normal levels for age. The whole idea of TRT is to bring it back to youthful levels. I wouldn't think that normal levels for a 57 year old is worth aiming for.

I think at the very least you should be aiming for the top of the range for your age group.

There are issues as well with too high T levels.

Did you know there is a strong correlation with higher testosterone levels where the ring finger is longer that the index finger? Apparently this is set in the womb.

[Tolley]

I got my results back today for the saliva hormone testing and I am a bit confused by the results and the advice I got.

Testosterone = 563 pmol/l lab range 200 - 1200. So that looks pretty average to me and certainly not low considering my age 56

Estrone E1 levels 32 pg/ml lab range 5 - 30

Estradiol E2 levels <2 pmol/l lab range 5 - 20

So the estrogens are are very weird one too high and the more important one I believe too low.

So I was told this was unusual but the lady thinks I am producing too much estrogen but these figures dont seem to bear that out in my opinion.

Any opinions?

Tropo

Her advice for reducing estrogen levels was as follows:

check zinc levels

take stinging nettle

take siberian ginseng (check blood pressure first)

take reservatol

take rhodiola with ginseng

[papa al]

Being in close physical contact with young women is said to boost testosterone levels.

Not too difficult to do here in LOS.

Consider checking out YouTube for foods to consume or avoid to boost T.

Watermelon for example.