Bomb squad trio killed defusing device in Thai south

[webfact]

SOUTH CRISIS
Revered bomb disposal expert among 3 killed
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- Pol Sub-Lt Shaen Warongphaisit, a police bomb-disposal veteran whose face was familiar to both locals and reporters covering the South insurgency, was yesterday laid to rest from his tiring and dangerous job after succumbing to severe injuries from a bomb explosion.

The bomb exploded while he was trying to defuse another at a site in Narathiwat's Bacho district. The explosion also killed, Pol Sub Lieutenant Charoon Mekmaung and Pol Sergeant Nimit Deewong, who were part of the explosive ordnance disposal team, and wounded a Navy disposal expert known only as Chief Petty Officer First Class Somkiat.

Yesterday's toll brought the total number of casualties this year to six deaths and 15 injured. Provincial police chief, Pol Maj-General Phatthanawut Angkhanawin, said this was possibly an insurgency-related set-up targeting EOD police and military personnel.

The bomb was detonated by a two-way radio, while the first, possibly planted as a decoy, was being defused by Shaen, 50.

The late officer had spent the past decade defusing more than 200 bombs in the deep South. Fellow team members and his superiors - both past and present - were disheartened to hear of the losses, especially Shaen's death.

Shaen and Charoon survived, but sustained severe injuries, in a similar bomb incident in June 2011, in which three explosives were planted with the aim to trap and kill.

Shaen, whose vast experience and demeanour led him to become widely liked by the local population and well-known to both local and national media, received an award from Nation Multimedia Group four years ago as an Outstanding Policeman. The award was handed to him on the annual Police Day, which is marked every year on October 13.

A 1985 graduate of a constabulary school in the deep South, Shaen served mostly on the field doing combat-related duties. He held non-commissioned ranks and was promoted to sub-lieutenant in June 2001. A Narathiwat native, Shaen was of Chinese descent and previously went by the surname of sae-Wong. He is survived by his wife Nanthawan and two children.


-- The Nation 2013-10-29

[webfact]

Bomb squad trio killed defusing device in Thai south

BANGKOK, October 29, 2013 (AFP) - Three members of a Thai bomb disposal squad were killed Monday as they tried to defuse a device buried in a road in the country's insurgency-racked south, according to police.

The police team was called after a bomb was detected underneath the road in the Bacho district of Narathiwat province -- a hotbed of the near decade-long insurgency against Thai rule.

The bomb went off as they tried to make it safe and killed the men instantly, a police officer said requesting anonymity.

"They were experienced members of the police bomb squad who had worked for a long time in the south," he said, adding a second bomb on the same stretch of road was later found and defused successfully.

Rebels fighting for autonomy in Thailand's Muslim-majority south frequently target security forces with roadside bombs.

Experts say the insurgents are deploying increasingly sophisticated and powerful devices, often packed with ball bearings to cause maximum damage.

Bomb squad members are frequently the first on the scene after an attack or once a bomb has been found, leaving them vulnerable to secondary devices planted nearby.

The conflict has left more than 5,700 people dead in the south, the majority of them civilians.

Shadowy groups of Muslim militants have waged near-daily bomb and gun attacks, targeting security forces and civilians from both the Buddhist and Muslim communities.

Violence erupted in 2004 in the Muslim-majority region bordering Malaysia, which was annexed by Thailand more than a century ago.

Bloodshed has continued despite several rounds of tentative peace talks hosted by Malaysia between the Thai authorities and some rebel groups.

But another round of discussions scheduled for October has been postponed amid continuing violence, raising doubts about the likely success of the talks.


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2013-10-29

[crumpled]

Greatest respect to people like this who show courage on a regular basis especially with the intention of saving and trying to save the lives of others who may well be innocents.

May you rest peacefully.

[Somtamnication]

Incredible courage, these people. RIP

[coma]

A new tactic employed by the southern insurgents. Quite bold indeed and would have more than likely required an insurgent to have visual on the target before detonating the device. Losing 3 BDE 's in the one incident is almost not heard of due to stringent standard operation procedures. The terrorists have worked around this for maximam effect and will more than likely force these teams to change the way they deal with such situations in the future.

[ezzra]

While it's always a sad tragedy to see senseless and pointless death of young soldiers

while defusing bombs it's become apparent that maybe those bomb's disposal guys

are not up to scratch on the latest technology of IED and bobby traps in general safe

disarming,

time to seek better knowledge, equipment's and trainings from countries that are more versed

and experienced in dealing with those godless and heartless TERRORIST once and for all as

this is not going to go away as more and more needless blood will be spilled again and again...

[harrry]

They deserve respect. They did a dangerous job making things safer for everyone. Whether or not there are problems with the handling of the South is not material to this. Such people deserve the respect of all.

I hope he his next life is a safer one for them and everyone,

[notmyself]

We all die but to do it in an attempt to protect others is very honourable. I salute you sir.

[Tatsujin]

These guys deserve a LOT more pay for what they are doing. Respect.

[phuketrichard]

people that clear bombs are heros in my eyes

Church

[MrMalarkey]

people that clear bombs are heros in my eyes

Church

Yes.

The guy that died in the loas plane crash was an ngo bomb clearance guy.

Its unfortunate that the people in charge do not supply what is required for complete protection, look at the bomb detectors for example and why not just blow these things up from a distance, why try to disarm them and risk life and limb....remember the group or disposal guys that all got killed recently, this or last year also and why disarm in a tshirt and bullet proof vest...is the head high enough to be safe out there uncovered?

[evadgib]

@Mr Malarkey

why not just blow these things up from a distance, why try to disarm them and risk life and limb

1. To gain valuable forensics

2. To prevent further disruption to the infrastructure which could turn local opinion against the govt.

[simple1]

While it's always a sad tragedy to see senseless and pointless death of young soldiers while defusing bombs it's become apparent that maybe those bomb's disposal guys are not up to scratch on the latest technology of IED and bobby traps in general safe disarming, time to seek better knowledge, equipment's and trainings from countries that are more versed and experienced in dealing with those godless and heartless TERRORIST once and for all as this is not going to go away as more and more needless blood will be spilled again and again...

US military regularly provide Thai miltary training on handling IEDs as well as other specialsed training

http://www.usarpac.army.mil/bae12/fullstory.asp?file=20120705b&id=0

http://www.usarpac.army.mil/bae12/images.asp

[Local Drunk]

No condolences yet heard from the PM regarding the fate of these very brave men. She's sitting on a time bomb of politics planted by her brother and there is no one left to diffuse it.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Local Drunk

[pablodiablo]

in any war intel is upermost importance with good intel you can prevent rather than cure, the yanks have birds over thailand maybe there could be some cooperation? and yea these men have big balls i have the greatest respect for them, but you know if your a butcher there is a good chance your going to cut your self at some stage, im very glad people are calling it a bomb becouse thats what it is! improvised explowsive device was invented by the americans and the improvised bit was supposed to suggest that its not to efective trust me when your 50mtrs from one they are very efective!!!!!! some one in an earlier post called the enemy idiots if only that was the case unfortunatly they are far from that!!!

[Tycoon]

It's time Thailand

It's time to say no more and draw a line in the sand and declare all out war on the southern province.

Martial law into effect with severe repercussions.

How can you stand by and let this continue ?

Very un thai like to be bent over like this.

[simple1]

It's time Thailand

It's time to say no more and draw a line in the sand and declare all out war on the southern province.

Martial law into effect with severe repercussions.

How can you stand by and let this continue ?

Very un thai like to be bent over like this.

How about educating yourself? Martial law or it's equivalent has been implemented in the deep South for many years and provides power to the Thai security services, a fairly detailed introduction at:

http://voicefromthais.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/south-thailand-nine-years-under-martial-law-in-southern-border-provinces-english-version/

Edited October 29, 2013 by simple1

[squarethecircle]

It's time Thailand

It's time to say no more and draw a line in the sand and declare all out war on the southern province.

Martial law into effect with severe repercussions.

How can you stand by and let this continue ?

Very un thai like to be bent over like this.

How about educating yourself? Martial law or it's equivalent has been implemented in the deep South for many years and provides power to the Thai security services, a fairly detailed introduction at:

http://voicefromthais.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/south-thailand-nine-years-under-martial-law-in-southern-border-provinces-english-version/

It doesn't seem so ignorant to suggest that something more needs to be done. Bombs of this size and level of sophistication suggest the people behind this are not the poor little oppressed freedom fighters you seem so convinced they are. US has offered support to the Thais in the past, but the Thais seem to go back and forth on whether this is strictly an internal problem or whether international jihadist elements (such as groups from Pakistan, Malaysia, and Indonesia) are involved.

Saying outside/"beyond the border" forces are involved, and hence the Thais need help would be a major loss of face to the big cats in Bangkok, but the authorities on the ground in the South would probably be a little more amenable to it. Watching some of the videos of the assaults and bomb attacks make it clear that some of the jihadists are quite well-trained. Where and by whom?

RIP

Edited October 29, 2013 by squarethecircle

[simple1]

It's time Thailand

It's time to say no more and draw a line in the sand and declare all out war on the southern province.

Martial law into effect with severe repercussions.

How can you stand by and let this continue ?

Very un thai like to be bent over like this.

How about educating yourself? Martial law or it's equivalent has been implemented in the deep South for many years and provides power to the Thai security services, a fairly detailed introduction at:

http://voicefromthais.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/south-thailand-nine-years-under-martial-law-in-southern-border-provinces-english-version/

It doesn't seem so ignorant to suggest that something more needs to be done. Bombs of this size and level of sophistication suggest the people behind this are not the poor little oppressed freedom fighters you seem so convinced they are. US has offered support to the Thais in the past, but the Thais seem to go back and forth on whether this is strictly an internal problem or whether international jihadist elements (such as groups from Pakistan, Malaysia, and Indonesia) are involved.

Saying outside/"beyond the border" forces are involved, and hence the Thais need help would be a major loss of face to the big cats in Bangkok, but the authorities on the ground in the South would probably be a little more amenable to it. Watching some of the videos of the assaults and bomb attacks make it clear that some of the jihadists are quite well-trained. Where and by whom?

RIP

I am not of the opinion that the insurgents are “poor little oppressed freedom fighters”, but do firmly believe that torture of detainees and extrajudicial killings are completely counterproductive.

Yes the nine (?) insurgency groups are well organised in cell structures and tactics so appears the leaders are receiving training either locally or overseas. As you well know they are also running political rings around the Thai authorities, who are claiming they do not even know who the real political actors are.

As already posted above US military support is being accessed and I have reposted the URL below.

http://www.usarpac.army.mil/bae12/images.asp

The U.S. Joint Special Operations Task Force – Philippines has been operational for a number of years, but low and behold the resolution for ending most of the unrest was a political agreement between the Philippines government and the main insurgency group.

[coma]

While it's always a sad tragedy to see senseless and pointless death of young soldiers

while defusing bombs it's become apparent that maybe those bomb's disposal guys

are not up to scratch on the latest technology of IED and bobby traps in general safe

disarming,

time to seek better knowledge, equipment's and trainings from countries that are more versed

and experienced in dealing with those godless and heartless TERRORIST once and for all as

this is not going to go away as more and more needless blood will be spilled again and again...

What are you talking about ? There are numerous foreign experts , including from the US and Australia, helping the Thai police and military combat the southern insurgency both in counter- insurgency techniques and bomb disposal.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/591574-australian-police-observe-forensic-operations-in-thai-south/

[SjaakNL2013]

Sad to hear from those 3 guys... respect.. for them.

But not for their bosses. They don't care and still send soldiers unprotected in a battlefield. The only time you see protected cars/cloths is if the brass come for a 1 hour visit.

[squarethecircle]

It's time Thailand

It's time to say no more and draw a line in the sand and declare all out war on the southern province.

Martial law into effect with severe repercussions.

How can you stand by and let this continue ?

Very un thai like to be bent over like this.

How about educating yourself? Martial law or it's equivalent has been implemented in the deep South for many years and provides power to the Thai security services, a fairly detailed introduction at:

http://voicefromthais.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/south-thailand-nine-years-under-martial-law-in-southern-border-provinces-english-version/

It doesn't seem so ignorant to suggest that something more needs to be done. Bombs of this size and level of sophistication suggest the people behind this are not the poor little oppressed freedom fighters you seem so convinced they are. US has offered support to the Thais in the past, but the Thais seem to go back and forth on whether this is strictly an internal problem or whether international jihadist elements (such as groups from Pakistan, Malaysia, and Indonesia) are involved.

Saying outside/"beyond the border" forces are involved, and hence the Thais need help would be a major loss of face to the big cats in Bangkok, but the authorities on the ground in the South would probably be a little more amenable to it. Watching some of the videos of the assaults and bomb attacks make it clear that some of the jihadists are quite well-trained. Where and by whom?

RIP

I am not of the opinion that the insurgents are “poor little oppressed freedom fighters”, but do firmly believe that torture of detainees and extrajudicial killings are completely counterproductive.

Yes the nine (?) insurgency groups are well organised in cell structures and tactics so appears the leaders are receiving training either locally or overseas. As you well know they are also running political rings around the Thai authorities, who are claiming they do not even know who the real political actors are.

As already posted above US military support is being accessed and I have reposted the URL below.

http://www.usarpac.army.mil/bae12/images.asp

The U.S. Joint Special Operations Task Force – Philippines has been operational for a number of years, but low and behold the resolution for ending most of the unrest was a political agreement between the Philippines government and the main insurgency group.

Actually your comments are completely predictable, you can find people implicitly blaming the victims ("extrajudicial killings are completely counterproductive" as if that's relevant) for the actions of brutal Islamist terrorists around the world, same with Nigeria, Kenya, Pakistan, and 9/11. It's certainly unclear that any sort of agreement would actually resort in peace, such as for the minorities in the south. Minorities certainly aren't being protected in Malaysia or Pakistan.

When a civilized man and a savage are fighting, stand with the civilized man.

[simple1]

I am not of the opinion that the insurgents are “poor little oppressed freedom fighters”, but do firmly believe that torture of detainees and extrajudicial killings are completely counterproductive.

Yes the nine (?) insurgency groups are well organised in cell structures and tactics so appears the leaders are receiving training either locally or overseas. As you well know they are also running political rings around the Thai authorities, who are claiming they do not even know who the real political actors are.

As already posted above US military support is being accessed and I have reposted the URL below.

http://www.usarpac.army.mil/bae12/images.asp

The U.S. Joint Special Operations Task Force – Philippines has been operational for a number of years, but low and behold the resolution for ending most of the unrest was a political agreement between the Philippines government and the main insurgency group.

Actually your comments are completely predictable, you can find people implicitly blaming the victims ("extrajudicial killings are completely counterproductive" as if that's relevant) for the actions of brutal Islamist terrorists around the world, same with Nigeria, Kenya, Pakistan, and 9/11. It's certainly unclear that any sort of agreement would actually resort in peace, such as for the minorities in the south. Minorities certainly aren't being protected in Malaysia or Pakistan.

When a civilized man and a savage are fighting, stand with the civilized man.

We will just have to disagree that the use of torture and extrajudicial killing are tools that are acceptable for use by "civilised man" and yes it is totally relevant.

Again we will have to disagree that right now the deep South is a primary Jihadist agenda, but the longer the fighting goes on I do believe Jihadist influences will deepen.

[squarethecircle]

"We will just have to disagree that the use of torture and extrajudicial killing are tools that are acceptable for use by "civilised man" and yes it is totally relevant."

No, it is irrelevant - unless you can present some information that the dead officers were torturing people, and that their killers were enacting revenge. As far as I can see there is 0 evidence that this was the case, and the villain in this case were the bombers. The "freedom fighters" are in fact the Thai police/soldiers, keeping the area out of the control of pseudo-religious psychotic a**holes like those in power south of the border and elsewhere in the Muslim world.

"Again we will have to disagree that right now the deep South is a primary Jihadist agenda, but the longer the fighting goes on I do believe Jihadist influences will deepen."

Well you're flat out wrong about this. There is a history behind it, but it all bears the unmistakable mark of "jihad". If you know a bit of Malay you can easily find manuals via Google justifying killing of Muslims (ie: non-infidels) who cooperate with the Thai/infidel government. Perhaps instead of smugly telling others to educate themselves, you should read up on this and about the Islamists in control in Malaysia/Pakistan/elsewhere, and how infidels are treated in these places.

[simple1]

"We will just have to disagree that the use of torture and extrajudicial killing are tools that are acceptable for use by "civilised man" and yes it is totally relevant."

No, it is irrelevant - unless you can present some information that the dead officers were torturing people, and that their killers were enacting revenge. As far as I can see there is 0 evidence that this was the case, and the villain in this case were the bombers. The "freedom fighters" are in fact the Thai police/soldiers, keeping the area out of the control of pseudo-religious psychotic a**holes like those in power south of the border and elsewhere in the Muslim world.

"Again we will have to disagree that right now the deep South is a primary Jihadist agenda, but the longer the fighting goes on I do believe Jihadist influences will deepen."

Well you're flat out wrong about this. There is a history behind it, but it all bears the unmistakable mark of "jihad". If you know a bit of Malay you can easily find manuals via Google justifying killing of Muslims (ie: non-infidels) who cooperate with the Thai/infidel government. Perhaps instead of smugly telling others to educate themselves, you should read up on this and about the Islamists in control in Malaysia/Pakistan/elsewhere, and how infidels are treated in these places.

I did not deny that their is a Jihadist element to the fighting in the deep South & in fact this is reported to be have an increasing influence, especially with the Juwae who it is claimed are doing most of the killing, but is not historically. Seems their is a lot more killing with criminal gangs, business disputes and local political power killings than those aimed at the security forces.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/asia/southern-thailands-insurgency-turns-jihadist.html

I am well aware of whats going on in Pakistan and discrimination against non Muslims in Malaysia. I guess you must know of the 40,000 deaths within the Pakistani security forces fighting Islamic extremists and moves to include the extremists, based in Pakistan, in peace talks with the Afghans. An interesting article talking to non Muslim and minority Islamic sects within Pakistan at:

http://www.upi.com/UPI-Next/2013/05/07/Non-Muslim-candidates-largely-absent-in-Pakistans-election/21364382136569/

EDIT: I know you will disagree, but personaly I lay the blame for the increasing radicalisation in the deep South on the policies and tactics by successive Thai governments

Edited October 31, 2013 by simple1

[jmccarty]

True heroes, RIP!

[SjaakNL2013]

True heroes, RIP!

I never could understand why people who got killed getting heroes. They did their job, Demolish bombs and inspect debris from exploded bombs. They, as I assume, did know the risks that belong by jobs like that in places as the South.

It did go many times well, but there is always a last time. The inspection of, in this case not secure area, debris from a small bomb that was placed as decoy.

Sad that it did happen, true but call them heroes that go me to far.

[squarethecircle]

"I know you will disagree, but personaly I lay the blame for the increasing radicalisation in the deep South on the policies and tactics by successive Thai governments"

We see the exact same claim being made about Islamic radicalisation across the world; US and European Muslims blame US foreign policy for the rising strains of intolerant and fanatical Islam, the Somalia terrorist group blamed Kenya's military for its terrorist attacks, Taliban killed 13 Chinese climbers a few months back and blamed it on a US drone strike, Xinjiang terrorists blame China's government for their attacks in Beijing and Xinjiang, and now you're blaming the Thais for the terrorism directed at them. At some point you have to step back and look at the idealogy behind all of these attacks if you want to understand them. Why such consistently savage attacks by Muslims who consider themselves to be oppressed, across the planet?

Also this is the problem I have with groups like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. They're far more concerned about the rights of terrorists than with the rights of their victims. Same with you, at some point you have to admit that planting bombs and blowing up good cops is a childish, barbaric and (in my judgement) evil way to act in the world. It's a 7th century approach that doesn't belong in the 21st century.

Also I'm curious: if the Thais had information about who planted this b0mb and were able to stop it, but had to inflict pain (ie: torture) to get this information, do you think this would be preferable to losing more soldiers and police? That's Amnesty International and HRW's implicit position, that torture is never justified (along with drone strikes), and a clear example of where they (and you) are more concerned with the human rights of the terrorist than with the rest of the world's rights to live in peace.

[simple1]

"I know you will disagree, but personaly I lay the blame for the increasing radicalisation in the deep South on the policies and tactics by successive Thai governments"

We see the exact same claim being made about Islamic radicalisation across the world; US and European Muslims blame US foreign policy for the rising strains of intolerant and fanatical Islam, the Somalia terrorist group blamed Kenya's military for its terrorist attacks, Taliban killed 13 Chinese climbers a few months back and blamed it on a US drone strike, Xinjiang terrorists blame China's government for their attacks in Beijing and Xinjiang, and now you're blaming the Thais for the terrorism directed at them. At some point you have to step back and look at the idealogy behind all of these attacks if you want to understand them. Why such consistently savage attacks by Muslims who consider themselves to be oppressed, across the planet?

Also this is the problem I have with groups like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. They're far more concerned about the rights of terrorists than with the rights of their victims. Same with you, at some point you have to admit that planting bombs and blowing up good cops is a childish, barbaric and (in my judgement) evil way to act in the world. It's a 7th century approach that doesn't belong in the 21st century.

Also I'm curious: if the Thais had information about who planted this b0mb and were able to stop it, but had to inflict pain (ie: torture) to get this information, do you think this would be preferable to losing more soldiers and police? That's Amnesty International and HRW's implicit position, that torture is never justified (along with drone strikes), and a clear example of where they (and you) are more concerned with the human rights of the terrorist than with the rest of the world's rights to live in peace.

Just because you do not agree with my opinions there is no need to put words in my mouth. Yes I agree the killing and wounding of ‘good cops’ is an evil action and so is the use of torture and extrajudicial killing by security forces.

To answer your question on the use of torture I’ll use the following quote:

“Some things we don't do, not because they never work, not because they aren't ''deserved," but because our very right to call ourselves decent human beings depends in part on our not doing them. Torture is in that category. We can win our war against the barbarians without becoming barbaric in the process”.

My view on Islamic extremism is it is rooted in politics, that requires a forceful response, but ultimately a political solution. Many also suscribe to the thought that fanatical sectarian killing is also based upon local politics and power plays; religion ultimately just being a cover/manipulation for the killings by the leaders.

[squarethecircle]

"We can win our war against the barbarians without becoming barbaric in the process”.

But are there not some situations where it is entirely justified? If, (1) a person is known to have information about impending attacks, (2) obtaining that information could allow attacks to be stopped, and (3) the information could be extracted through infliction of pain, it seems entirely justified to use pain to get such information. You claim that torture or extrajudicial killings are somehow relevant to this attack (and other attacks), but they certainly do not justify this. We don't know that the Thai authorities have purposefully attacked innocents, but it is very clear the flip-side is willing to do that to force its will on people using fear as a weapon...the definition of terrorism.

"My view on Islamic extremism is it is rooted in politics, that requires a forceful response, but ultimately a political solution."

Well that's part of the problem then, since it's more on the lines of a totalitarian movement. Saying it could be resolved politically is equivalent to saying that the Nazis or Japanese could've been stopped by a political solution. Actually if you've read UBL's manifesto it's clear that a political situation won't work...in the eyes of the enemy, Islam is the final religion, Mhd the final prophet, the world is destined to submit to it, and any who oppose it (even by criticism) are enemies of God and not worthy of life. There's no "political solution" to someone who thinks like this, they simply need to be eradicated. Same in the MIddle East, south Asia, and north Africa.