Do I need to register my divorce with the British Embassy to remarry a non-Thai in the UK?

[Grindting]

This question can only be answered by understanding the details:

I was married to a Thai in an amphur in Bangkok in 2007. We had our documents translated and stamped for submission to the British Embassy in Bangkok as part of the ILR 2 year marriage visa. (NOTE: We did NOT register the marriage documents to the British Embassy literally, they were for backup to the application only. I did not go as far as to undertake the final step of the process i.e. register the marriage with the British Embassy in Bangkok)

She received her ILR visa at the time and we resided in the UK for 1.5 years before splitting up. She went back to Thailand and we completed the divorce papers in the same ampur in Bangkok in 2009. It was mutual agreement and nothing was exchanged between the 2 of us. I did not register the divorce with the British Embassy in Bangkok as I did not register the marriage in the first instance so assumed it was not required.

I have since met someone else and now exactly 4 years after this divorce I am now looking to marry again, but in the UK and not with a Thai.

I have a copy of the original Thai marriage certificate and translation with the stamps etc. I have a copy of the Thai divorce certificate but no translation / stamps.

Because I did not register the marriage with the British Embassy in Bangkok (and subsequently did not register the divorce either) – does this mean I can proceed to legally marry in the UK?

My partner is Indonesian and we will travel back to Indonesia this month to obtain the relevant documents in order for her to get married in the UK. Was I wrong and will I need to go to Bangkok and deal with this divorce certificate? Or as it is simply a ‘married in Thailand, divorced in Thailand’ affair with no links to UK registration. (To double confirm with readers as I noted above: we only used the translated / stamped marriage documents for backup to her ILR visa, they were not literally registered so the UK will have no record of our marriage, as far as I am aware)

Please let me know which way I need to go. Thank you

[7by7]

The UK will have a record of your marriage in your ex wife's visa and ILR applications.

Under UK law if a marriage is legal in the country where it took place then it is also legal in the UK and UK law also says that you can only register a marriage once. So you could not register your marriage at the British embassy in Bangkok because you had already registered it at an ampur in Thailand.

In the same way, if a divorce is legal in the country where it took place then it is also legal in the UK.

So if you are legally divorced in Thailand then you are also legally divorced in the UK.

I recommend that you get an English translation of the divorce certificate for when you need it.

[crazykopite]

The UK will have a record of your marriage in your ex wife's visa and ILR applications.

Under UK law if a marriage is legal in the country where it took place then it is also legal in the UK and UK law also says that you can only register a marriage once. So you could not register your marriage at the British embassy in Bangkok because you had already registered it at an ampur in Thailand.

In the same way, if a divorce is legal in the country where it took place then it is also legal in the UK.

So if you are legally divorced in Thailand then you are also legally divorced in the UK.

I recommend that you get an English translation of the divorce certificate for when you need it.

A number of years ago I married my long term partner who like me is British in an Ampur in Bangkok I have always wondered should I have registered the marriage at the British Embassy it appears having read the above this is not the case or a requirement. As I am in receipt of a full service pension I have assumed that my wife would have to contact the pensions department and show evidence that we were married at the time of my passing should I die before her. As we are not planning to get divorced I shall get my marriage certificate translated for future reference.

[bkk_mike]

The Thai divorce papers show you're legally divorced.

But you will need a translation into English. Probably from a proper translation service (i.e. the sort of thing that is really easy to get in Thailand).

[misterphil]

If you never registered your marraige on the GRO website then the UK dont even know you have been married. Going to the British Embassy at Bangkok and asking to register your marraige there will only get you a strange look. I know someone that went to the British Embassy at Bangkok after he was married to his Thai wife in Thailand, and the people that worked there told him that they dont register marraiges.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

[shaurene]

I was married in the Thai official office in Khon Kaen, well no fancy stuff just telling them we want to marry and get the papers, when we went to my home in New Zealand we were also married at the registry office there.

But the other suggestion as to get your divorce papers translated and stamped is good idea.

[Bagwan]

I steer well clear of the UK Embassy, Consular Section after being milked in consideration of them verifying my divorce papers. If applying for a State Pension no translation is required by DWP who employ their own interpreters. The payers of my other pensions did require verified translations. I used the translators adjacent to the defunct and lamented Jomtien UK Consulate.

[Netizen]

It may depend on whether your proclivity to mate is for sport or for long term companionship; and the nature of your object of desire.

[7by7]

There are some, no doubt well intentioned, ill informed posts here; so I will expand on my previous.

Under UK statutes dating back to the 19th century if a marriage or a divorce is legal in the country where it took place then it is also legal in the UK.

You cannot register a marriage at any British embassy. Neither can you register a foreign marriage with the GRO in the UK.

What you can do is deposit your foreign marriage certificate with the GRO in the UK; either directly if in the UK or via the embassy if outside the UK. This does not effect the legality of your foreign marriage in any way; it merely means that at some later date you can obtain a copy from the GRO in the UK. Most people don't bother.

I say 'GRO in the UK' but there are actually three. One each for England and Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.

It is, of course, well worth having a certified English translation of a non English marriage, divorce, birth, death etc. certificate as this may be required at a later date in the UK or elsewhere. For UK purposes certification by the translation bureau is sufficient; other countries may want the translation verified by the originating country's foreign ministry, e.g. at the MFA in Bangkok or RTE in London for a Thai certificate.

Finally, whilst a divorce registered at the RTE in London will be legal in Thailand it will not be legal in the UK. In the UK you can only divorce via the courts, no matter where you registered the marriage. A divorce via the courts in the UK will be legal in Thailand.

The above applies to the UK only. I cannot comment on the rules for New Zealand or any other country.

[Grindting]

Thanks a lot guys for the great responses

First I would like to note I made a mistake, when I said ILR I actually meant LR (leave to remain, not indefinite leave to remain).

We certainly did get divorced in Thailand so it is legal in the UK. It was never logged with the aforementioned website/party described in the responses. But thankfully as noted it is inconsequential.

It would be a good idea to get it translated retrospectively but I don’t really have the time or the inclination to travel back to Thailand any time soon just for this, so I’ll leave it considering it isn’t necessary to facilitate my new marriage.

Good news!

Thanks again.

[7by7]

You will need to show your divorce certificate to the registrar when you give notice of your intention to marry.

The registrar will probably want to see an English translation. There are many agencies in the UK who will do this for you; but it will be more expensive than had you done it in Thailand.

The actual process of giving notice varies depending on which part of the UK you live in, see Marriages and civil partnerships in the UK.

[mtimmu]

So if you are legally divorced in Thailand then you are also legally divorced in the UK.

---the document looks like this :
http://www.thailandlawonline.com/article-older-archive/thai-divorce-law-and-legal-grounds

[theoldgit]

Nonsensical post removed.

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[7by7]

So if you are legally divorced in Thailand then you are also legally divorced in the UK.

Yes.

[Grindting]

Ok so I DO need to get it translated then, upon presentation to the registra

Fine. But I don't need to go to Thailand to do it, which will save me a fair penny.

Thanks again for the info. Lucky I checked back in!

[Basil B]

Grindting,

I would advise asking the Registry Office if you need a certified translation, I would assume they have come upon this issue many times and could give you an answer straight away.

It may well be at the discretion of the Superintendent Registrar.

1.5 The General Register Office do not feel able to make extensive enquiries, and the

validity in English law of a foreign divorce is assumed by them unless it is clearly

irregular (i.e. clearly invalid in the country in which it was obtained, or granted only for

religious purposes) (see also DIVORCE). The parties are warned that no assurance can

be given that the divorce, or the marriage they are about to contract, would be

recognised by the courts in this country or elsewhere.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/nationalityinstructions/nisec2gensec/marriage?view=Binary

Although the above is published by UKBA for persons coming to the UK to marry, I think you will find it the same for UK national as well.

Edit in:

Just found this for Birmingham Registry Office:

DOCUMENTS YOU NEED TO SHOW US

When you give notice of your marriage, you need to bring documents with you to prove your name, age, nationality, marital status and address. If you do not bring them, it may not be possible to take your notice of marriage.



Please note that documents must be originals. Photocopies of documents are not acceptable.

Two documents need to show your address. At least one should be from an official government agency, for example a medical card, driving licence or council tax bill, the other could be a bank or building society statement or a utility bill.



Other documents you need to bring are birth certificates, passports, change of name deeds and any documents showing the termination of any previous marriage or civil partnership. If you have been married or in a civil partnership before and divorced, you will need to produce a court-stamped copy of the decree absolute (the final divorce paper) if the divorce took place in the U.K. If, however, the divorce took place abroad, you will need to produce the original divorce document issued by that country.



If you are widowed or your civil partner has died, we will need to see the death certificate of your late husband, wife or civil partner.



If you have already married each other in a foreign country, you need only get married again here if there is a doubt that your marriage was legal. We will need to see the marriage documents issued by that country when you give notice of your marriage.



If any of the documents issued by another country are not in English, a certified translation will be required.



If you are under 18, we will need proof that your parents or guardians agree to the marriage. If your parents are divorced we may also need to see a court order that gives custody to one of them or some other person.

The staff at the Register Office are always willing to discuss or give advice on the arrangements or legal requirements for your marriage.

http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=Register-Office%2FPageLayout&cid=1223092615127&pagename=BCC%2FCommon%2FWrapper%2FWrapper

[Grindting]

Thanks so much for that. You're absolutely right I should check with the registry office. She is going back to Indonesia for 2 weeks then coming straight back to the uk and we intend to register shortly after. so I will check with registry office on Monday

Big blower though... I also need to double check that we can get married on a multi entry tourist visa!! Which is the visa she always comes to the uk with! No fiancé visa. We're planning on doing a dash and grab ,, and apply for LR next year, although not entirely nessesary but certainly makes long stay easier and without pestering from uk boarder control bums at the airport

[laolover88]

Thanks so much for that. You're absolutely right I should check with the registry office. She is going back to Indonesia for 2 weeks then coming straight back to the uk and we intend to register shortly after. so I will check with registry office on Monday

Big blower though... I also need to double check that we can get married on a multi entry tourist visa!! Which is the visa she always comes to the uk with! No fiancé visa. We're planning on doing a dash and grab ,, and apply for LR next year, although not entirely nessesary but certainly makes long stay easier and without pestering from uk boarder control bums at the airport

Hang on.... Multi-entry tourist visa for the UK?? I may be mistaken but I think there is no such thing. And if you go to a registry office in the UK, nowadays, not like before, and wish to marry they will want a visa on the basis of proposal to marry. Maybe read this

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/while-in-uk/marriageandcivilpartnership/eligibility/

Good luck

[theoldgit]

Hang on.... Multi-entry tourist visa for the UK?? I may be mistaken but I think there is no such thing. And if you go to a registry office in the UK, nowadays, not like before, and wish to marry they will want a visa on the basis of proposal to marry. Maybe read this
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/while-in-uk/marriageandcivilpartnership/eligibility/
Good luck

Most Visit Visas for the UK are multi entry, a single entry would be the exception to the rule.


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[7by7]

Also, while there is a visit visa specifically for those wishing to marry in the UK, one can marry in the UK if holding a general visit visa. Which from what the OP says I assume is what she currently holds.

However, it must still be valid and to gain re-entry to the UK she should not have already spent more than 6 out of the last 12 months in the UK; if she has she may have problems entering the UK again after just 2 weeks away and could even be refused entry. Even if the visit visa is a long term one, e.g. 5 years.

No fiancé visa. We're planning on doing a dash and grab ,, and apply for LR next year, although not entirely nessesary but certainly makes long stay easier and without pestering from uk boarder control bums at the airport

I'm not sure what you mean when you say LR ( Leave to Remain?) is not strictly necessary. If you wish to live together in the UK she will need the appropriate visa. No matter what term her visit visa is for, she cannot stay in the UK for more than 6 months at a time as a visitor and, usually, visitors cannot spend more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK.

She also cannot convert a visit visa into LR in the UK. If she does wish to live in the UK with you she will need to apply for the appropriate visa in Indonesia.