Thai Amnesty anger set to explode

[Bender]

It just baffles me how these people can do these things at the expense of the citizens & countries well being. I thought self serving and deception was bad in the States; but here, I just can't believe what I'm seeing. How many coups have been thrown here in the last 75 years?

if i remember well 19 coups, wonder if for the 20 they will make a big party

How about fireworks ?

mmh this time i will prefer if we only have a bbq party with some booze and morlam music instead of the people with boots.

[yoshiwara]

Thailand is not a democracy. There will not be a democracy until there is freedom of speech, freedom from corruption, equality before the law and transparency at all levels. Without this, democracy is impossible and Thailand will continue to be a feudal society with a vote where people are oppressed by mobs working with corrupt officials and police.

So your solution is? Surely a flawed democracy is better than nothing?

Say what you like about the first Thai Rak Thai governments, but they had genuine popular support and accomplished many good things.

...which Thaksin then progressively abused to fill his and his family's boots.

[waza]

It just baffles me how these people can do these things at the expense of the citizens & countries well being. I thought self serving and deception was bad in the States; but here, I just can't believe what I'm seeing. How many coups have been thrown here in the last 75 years?

if i remember well 19 coups, wonder if for the 20 they will make a big party

How about fireworks ?

Last time they had gogo dancers on tanks

[brewsterbudgen]

Thailand is not a flawed democracy. Thailand isn't a democracy at all.

Why not? They hold elections and there is corruption on all sides. Not ideal, but developing democracies take time. You'd prefer a return to an absolute monarchy or a military dictatorship?

Thailand is not a democracy. There will not be a democracy until there is freedom of speech, freedom from corruption, equality before the law and transparency at all levels. Without this, democracy is impossible and Thailand will continue to be a feudal society with a vote where people are oppressed by mobs working with corrupt officials and police.

So your solution is? Surely a flawed democracy is better than nothing?

Say what you like about the first Thai Rak Thai governments, but they had genuine popular support and accomplished many good things.

...which Thaksin then progressively abused to fill his and his family's boots.

Indeed. It was shameful.

Edited October 31, 2013 by brewsterbudgen

[Hedghog]

Thailand.

A Thai problem.

Leave it to the Thai people.

Foreigners,not really your business.

[Lite Beer]

Thailand braces for protests over amnesty bill

by Thanaporn PROMYAMYAI

BANGKOK, October 31, 2013 (AFP) - Thailand braced for mass protests Thursday as parliament debated a political amnesty that opponents fear will "whitewash" the past killing of unarmed demonstrators and allow ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra to return.

Critics of the controversial legislation warn that it could unleash a fresh bout of political turmoil in a country rocked by a series of rival demonstrations since royalist generals ousted Thaksin in 2006.

The opposition Democrat Party has called for a mass rally against the planned amnesty at a railway station in Bangkok on Thursday evening, predicting that thousands will attend.

The ruling Puea Thai Party of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra -- Thaksin's sister -- has ordered all its lawmakers to support the bill, which would cover crimes related to political unrest since 2004.

A vote is expected in the coming days, although the opposition is demanding a delay.

"The bill will be a mechanism to solve conflicts. Asking to postpone it citing conflicts is not the right reason," Puea Thai MP Chonlanan Srikaew told parliament.

Supporters of the amnesty say it will draw a line under years of turmoil culminating in mass pro-Thaksin "Red Shirt" protests in 2010 that left dozens of civilians dead in a military crackdown.

New York-based Human Rights Watch has warned that a blanket amnesty would "allow officials and protest leaders who have blood on their hands to go unpunished".

"By whitewashing past abuses, the government denies justice to victims and tells future abusers they have little to fear," HRW Asia director Brad Adams said.

In 2010, mass rallies by the Red Shirts against the previous government descended into the kingdom's worst civil violence in decades, with more than 90 people killed and nearly 1,900 wounded in street clashes and a military crackdown.

A series of earlier protests by their arch rivals, the royalist "Yellow Shirts", helped to trigger the coup that toppled Thaksin.

The former telecoms tycoon is loved by many rural and poor Thais for his populist policies while in power, but his opponents accuse him of being corrupt, dictatorial and a threat to the monarchy.

He lives in self-imposed exile in Dubai to avoid prison for a corruption conviction -- imposed in his absence in 2008 -- that he contends was politically motivated.

Thaksin would be the "chief beneficiary" of the amnesty, said Paul Chambers, director of research at the Institute of South East Asian Affairs at Chiang Mai University in northern Thailand.

"If the amnesty is passed, if the Constitution Court does not oppose it and if the king endorses the amnesty law, then of course Thaksin will return to Thailand," he added.

The opposition -- which was in power at the time of the 2010 crackdown -- has threatened to intensify its planned rally until the amnesty bill is withdrawn.

It has denounced a decision by the attorney general to prosecute its leader, former premier Abhisit Vejjajiva, and his one-time deputy Suthep Thaugsuban on murder charges related to the 2010 crackdown as a ploy to pressure it to support the amnesty.

Abhisit said Thursday that he was ready to defend himself in court, where he is scheduled to appear with Suthep on December 12.

"All Thais should respect the law and the justice system. No one can avoid it or take action to grant themselves an amnesty," Abhisit told reporters.
The Red Shirts and families of the victims have also decried the idea of an amnesty.

Phayaw Akkahad, the mother of a nurse who was gunned down in the grounds of a Buddhist temple while treating injured Red Shirts on May 19, said she wanted Puea Thai to carry out its election campaign pledge to find justice.

"But look at what is happening -- soldiers who killed people have never gone to jail," she told AFP.

"I sacrificed my daughter and 100 other people were also sacrificed. I want to ask Thaksin what has he sacrificed? This bill will bring more violence and might cause people to be killed again," she said.

[RogueLeader]

Thailand is not a flawed democracy. Thailand isn't a democracy at all.

Why not? They hold elections and there is corruption on all sides. Not ideal, but developing democracies take time. You'd prefer a return to an absolute monarchy or a military dictatorship?

It takes more than polling stations to make a democracy.

Thailand resembles a democracy sufficiently to keep the US and the UN of its back and ease relations with greedy, hypocritical Western countries but in Thailand, there is no freedom of speech and no equality before the law. I read in another thread that a Nigerian has just been arrested in Bangkok carrying cocaine and will probably get the death sentence. Meanwhile Master Red Bull has had his day in court postponed again, I hear.

Democracy is not possible under these conditions.

ps: Scratch below the surface and you'll find that Thailand is in fact a military dictatorship. I once met a Thai in Mandalay who was delighted to be able to speak openly (in Burma!) about things he would be castigated and harshly punished for in Thailand.

Edited October 31, 2013 by RogueLeader

[Nickymaster]

In a way, I am also against a blanket amnesty.

I would love to see Abhisit and Suthep end up in prison.

However, I also try not to let the very low esteem I have for these two persons blind my views...

The political deadlock should end and it is time to push the reset button.

As much as I think that Suthep is an awful politician, as much as I think that Abhisit is useless for this country and that both should be held responsible for the deaths of 90 protesters, ... I also think that it is time for all sides to end this destructive game.

A blanket amnesty would certainly leave some people unhappy, but the never ending game that is played by the Dems since years is going nowhere.

An amnesty is a way to go back to square one and start on a new base. As mature and adult people.

The only problem is that the Dems are not able to compete on such a new base.

They see the amnesty as a threat because once it is passed they would not know what to do, what to say, and what to fight for...

They should reform themselves, offer something for the future of the country, make themselves appealing to the people, and give away their silly warrior's behavior forever.

The country needs to be reset and brought back to normality.

People who stubbornly obstruct the way to reconciliation should be held responsible too...

For the sake of the country I am ready to swallow the pill... and accept that Abhisit and Suthep don't end up in prison.

Except if they really want to, of course

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

To a point I agree with Gerry. It is so easy for politicians to stir up trouble in Thailand largely due to the pleasures that Thai people seem to relish and need from gossip and conspiracy theories.

By now I suspect that most Thai people consider that the constant barracking Thaksin has become boring. Further perhaps that many people like me have become evermore convinced that Thaksin is a victim of the malice that seems to throb at the heart of the Democrat Party.

Such is the smell of fear emanating from the 'Anti-Thaksin Brigade'. That fear feeds off the slanderous and libelous fecal verbosity that emanates from the Democrats and their allies. Now the nauseating malevolence begins to feel ever more likely that Thaksin is, and always was innocent, of all those accusations for which no juristic person in Thailand could ever produce any tangible evidence of Thaksin's alleged criminality.

So it looks evermore likely that former PM Thaksin really is innocent and that after five years of self exile, a criminal record and a punitive fine of Bt47 Billion needs to be made whole in name of Thaksin. This is with a view to Thailand saving face by negating the Democrat's assertions that Thailand is not and never has been mature enough to be a democracy. Such they believe in spite of the fact that the Great and Revered Monarch of Thailand declared his land to be a constitutional Monarchy in 1932.

Thaksin, already recognized around the World as Thailand's greatest champion of democracy since Thailand became a constitutional monarchy must come home on assurance that his personal safety will be guaranteed.

This is a matter of Thailand's jurisprudence and therefore the Amnesty is not an issue in the Thaksin case.

You are joking right?

I travel the whole world and meet many people because of my work but i have NEVER met a foreigner that has anything good to say about the criminal. Comments I hear most often lately are: "Today, Thaksin and his family are STILL robing Thailand empty. The guy really hasn't learned anything".

Most foreigners, in particular the ones that live in or are frequent visitors to Thailand don't seem to have a grasp of Thai history or politics, are naively distanced from the realities of the average Thai, and the vast majority have only been here since Thaksin came to power, so they don't know anything else.

Agreed. I have been living here for 25 years and I do know who I have to talk to to get an opinion.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Nickymaster

[FarangTalk]

Thailand.

A Thai problem.

Leave it to the Thai people.

Foreigners,not really your business.

Idiotic comment.

Most posters have friends and family here.

[Local Drunk]

Thailand.

A Thai problem.

Leave it to the Thai people.

Foreigners,not really your business.

Unless you're a foreigner that has actually lived here for a long time and hasn't the right to vote or even buy a bit of property in his own name.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Local Drunk

[Local Drunk]

In a way, I am also against a blanket amnesty.

I would love to see Abhisit and Suthep end up in prison.

However, I also try not to let the very low esteem I have for these two persons blind my views...

The political deadlock should end and it is time to push the reset button.

As much as I think that Suthep is an awful politician, as much as I think that Abhisit is useless for this country and that both should be held responsible for the deaths of 90 protesters, ... I also think that it is time for all sides to end this destructive game.

A blanket amnesty would certainly leave some people unhappy, but the never ending game that is played by the Dems since years is going nowhere.

An amnesty is a way to go back to square one and start on a new base. As mature and adult people.

The only problem is that the Dems are not able to compete on such a new base.

They see the amnesty as a threat because once it is passed they would not know what to do, what to say, and what to fight for...

They should reform themselves, offer something for the future of the country, make themselves appealing to the people, and give away their silly warrior's behavior forever.

The country needs to be reset and brought back to normality.

People who stubbornly obstruct the way to reconciliation should be held responsible too...

For the sake of the country I am ready to swallow the pill... and accept that Abhisit and Suthep don't end up in prison.

Except if they really want to, of course

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

To a point I agree with Gerry. It is so easy for politicians to stir up trouble in Thailand largely due to the pleasures that Thai people seem to relish and need from gossip and conspiracy theories.

By now I suspect that most Thai people consider that the constant barracking Thaksin has become boring. Further perhaps that many people like me have become evermore convinced that Thaksin is a victim of the malice that seems to throb at the heart of the Democrat Party.

Such is the smell of fear emanating from the 'Anti-Thaksin Brigade'. That fear feeds off the slanderous and libelous fecal verbosity that emanates from the Democrats and their allies. Now the nauseating malevolence begins to feel ever more likely that Thaksin is, and always was innocent, of all those accusations for which no juristic person in Thailand could ever produce any tangible evidence of Thaksin's alleged criminality.

So it looks evermore likely that former PM Thaksin really is innocent and that after five years of self exile, a criminal record and a punitive fine of Bt47 Billion needs to be made whole in name of Thaksin. This is with a view to Thailand saving face by negating the Democrat's assertions that Thailand is not and never has been mature enough to be a democracy. Such they believe in spite of the fact that the Great and Revered Monarch of Thailand declared his land to be a constitutional Monarchy in 1932.

Thaksin, already recognized around the World as Thailand's greatest champion of democracy since Thailand became a constitutional monarchy must come home on assurance that his personal safety will be guaranteed.

This is a matter of Thailand's jurisprudence and therefore the Amnesty is not an issue in the Thaksin case.

You are joking right?

I travel the whole world and meet many people because of my work but i have NEVER met a foreigner that has anything good to say about the criminal. Comments I hear most often lately are: "Today, Thaksin and his family are STILL robing Thailand empty. The guy really hasn't learned anything".

"Thaksin, already recognized around the World as Thailand's greatest champion of democracy"

Were you paid to write that?

[Robby nz]

The opposition Democrat Party has called for a mass rally against the planned amnesty at a railway station in Bangkok on Thursday evening, predicting that thousands will attend.

Mrs is still listening to the anti Govt rally and tells me there are now so many people there that those arriving cant get in.

They have also spilled out over the railway lines and more people are arriving all the time.

Rallies in many other places as well including Korat and Kohn Kaen as well as down south.

Korn has just arrived to speak, up from a sick bed complete with IV.

[rubl]

The opposition Democrat Party has called for a mass rally against the planned amnesty at a railway station in Bangkok on Thursday evening, predicting that thousands will attend.

Mrs is still listening to the anti Govt rally and tells me there are now so many people there that those arriving cant get in.

They have also spilled out over the railway lines and more people are arriving all the time.

Rallies in many other places as well including Korat and Kohn Kaen as well as down south.

Korn has just arrived to speak, up from a sick bed complete with IV.

Passing Ratchawiti, Sukhothai, RamaV just past 8PM I thought the traffic bit lighter than normal for a Thursday. Maybe because the crowd at Samsen caused traffic redirection? Also my local restaurant along the road at NakornChaisri was devoid of the policemen who liked to frequent it the last few weeks. They were probably a wee bit occupied.

BTW the sick bed and IV may be really necessary for Korn at the moment, but it seems a bit theatrical. IMHO.

Edited October 31, 2013 by rubl

[RogueLeader]

Thailand.

A Thai problem.

Leave it to the Thai people.

Foreigners,not really your business.

Unless you're a foreigner that has actually lived here for a long time and hasn't the right to vote or even buy a bit of property in his own name.

No, even then. You will always be a foreigner. You will never belong in Thailand remotely in the way that a Thai belongs. Farang is Farang. If you're waiting to integrate into Thai society, you should probably pack up and go now.