Marriage Visa Extension Denied - Even Tough I Met All Requirements

[ubonjoe]

Is 40K the required amount for combined income of the couple or the person applying only?

Only the husbands income.

[Mario2008]

Is 40K the required amount for combined income of the couple or the person applying only?

A foreign man married to a Thai woman must show this income and it must be his income alone.

A foreign woman married to a Thai man does not have to show an income.

[expat888]

Slip the officer a little tea money or a bottle of his favorite drink.

I think that is the problem. This has grown beyond a little tea money or a drink. They are looking for larger sums now. 10K plus.

In the past, the attorneys have been paying 5K for a hassle-free process and now I think the amount is going up. Now it's becoming pure extortion to buy your extensions now.

Going by the OP, it appears they are getting quite arrogant about it where before it was more covert. I hope the OP's experience is an exception versus a new rule.

Edited October 31, 2013 by expat888

[JLCrab]

To anyone suggesting legal action against Thai Immigration Police for denial of issuance of extension, their out-clause would be from the top of Police Order 777/2551:

Re: Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

The criteria then are listed in items 2.1 to 2.31 but nowhere is it suggested that if these minimum criteria are met, an extension is therefore guaranteed or obligated to be issued, but only that an application for such will be considered.

[kennypowers]

Wait a moment. If you are extending on basis of marriage you need 400k in a holding account for a minimum of 2 months. I tried to extend for a year based on income into my Thai bank account at Cheangwattana 2 months ago. They told me the same. No can do. You need the 400k in there at all times.

A friend of mine also had a similar situation this week. He tried to extend on the basis of a marriage visa but had drawn out money that took his account below 400k and then topped it back up. They said no, no, you must maintain over the 400k threshold for a minimum of 2 moths.

[andrewfenn]

Guys the original poster is wrong here. You can not and never have been able to apply for an extension of stay based upon supporting a thai wife with the 40k a month option without a job in Thailand. All the supporting documents require documents from a thai company including a copy of your work permit, the shareholders list, and documents from the revenue department showing the most recent tax payments over a three month period.

Information overload, the officer not knowing what he/she is doing, etc are absolutely not the case here. I am quite surprised that everyone who has posted up to this point in this thread hasn't already called the original poster out on this yet.

You are incorrect.

Money can be from abroad, in that case your income must be affirmed with letter from your embassy.

This is news to me. Is there anywhere I can read up more about this because I have never come across this before.

[lopburi3]

This is the official translation of requirements:

5. Only for Criteria (5) and (6), the applicant must attach a funds deposit certificate issued by a

bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook, or attach documents proving that the parents or alien

husband earns an average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the year, such as

any particular individual income tax return together with payment receipt, evidence of receiving

retirement pension, evidence of receiving interest from funds deposit, or evidence of having other

funds issued by the relevant agency. An affidavit must also be submitted confirming the alien’s

marital or parental status with a Thai national.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy305-2551_en.pdf

For retirement it is listed as:

Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or

The normally accepted proof is a letter from your Embassy addressed to immigration stating your monthly income/pension.

[ubonjoe]

Guys the original poster is wrong here. You can not and never have been able to apply for an extension of stay based upon supporting a thai wife with the 40k a month option without a job in Thailand. All the supporting documents require documents from a thai company including a copy of your work permit, the shareholders list, and documents from the revenue department showing the most recent tax payments over a three month period.

Information overload, the officer not knowing what he/she is doing, etc are absolutely not the case here. I am quite surprised that everyone who has posted up to this point in this thread hasn't already called the original poster out on this yet.

Nonsense !

If you do not know ask a question or refrain from posting !

I have no idea what you're trying to say but the support documents are clearly labeled. If you don't believe me then you can either look them up on thaivisa, the immigration website or call them directly. The 40K a month is requires a number of documents you can only get from a job in thailand.

You are making the same mistake !

See Marios post above!

From clause 2,18 of police order 305/2551.

5. Only for Criteria (5) and (6), the applicant must attach a funds deposit certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook, or attach documents proving that the parents or alien husband earns an average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the year, such as any particular individual income tax return together with payment receipt, evidence of receiving retirement pension, evidence of receiving interest from funds deposit, or evidence of having other funds issued by the relevant agency. An affidavit must also be submitted confirming the alienâs marital or parental status with a Thai national.

Edited October 31, 2013 by ubonjoe

[Tywais]

Guys the original poster is wrong here. You can not and never have been able to apply for an extension of stay based upon supporting a thai wife with the 40k a month option without a job in Thailand. All the supporting documents require documents from a thai company including a copy of your work permit, the shareholders list, and documents from the revenue department showing the most recent tax payments over a three month period.

Information overload, the officer not knowing what he/she is doing, etc are absolutely not the case here. I am quite surprised that everyone who has posted up to this point in this thread hasn't already called the original poster out on this yet.

Nonsense !

If you do not know ask a question or refrain from posting !

I have no idea what you're trying to say but the support documents are clearly labeled. If you don't believe me then you can either look them up on thaivisa, the immigration website or call them directly. The 40K a month is requires a number of documents you can only get from a job in thailand.

Police order 777/2551. Can locate it in the pinned topic.

2.18 In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse’s children): Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

(1) The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) The alien must have proof of relationship.

(3) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto; or

(4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse’s children, said children, adopted children, or spouse’s children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age; or

(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year. For other necessary cases, the Commander or Deputy Commander of Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.

(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year.

[umbanda]

No surprise. When I first apply for retirement visa in Bangkok town 4 years ago, the officer asked for not necessary income documentation according the rules. I just asked all my documents and application back and I did it in Chiang Mai without any non sense. You are lucky that in Bangkok you have choices of immigration offices. Try to talk with officers of other BK locations explaining what happens. If nothing changes, I think your only option will be to talk with a private visa service. I believe that they will resolve the case in their "ways" and will charge you about 30000THB to do it. The only problem with that is that in the future you may have to use them again or to have the money in your bank.....or....move out from BK to a more farang friendly province....Chiang Mai? Phayao?...At least you will be away from flooding and violence....

[Mario2008]

No surprise. When I first apply for retirement visa in Bangkok town 4 years ago, the officer asked for not necessary income documentation according the rules. I just asked all my documents and application back and I did it in Chiang Mai without any non sense. You are lucky that in Bangkok you have choices of immigration offices. Try to talk with officers of other BK locations explaining what happens. If nothing changes, I think your only option will be to talk with a private visa service. I believe that they will resolve the case in their "ways" and will charge you about 30000THB to do it. The only problem with that is that in the future you may have to use them again or to have the money in your bank.....or....move out from BK to a more farang friendly province....Chiang Mai? Phayao?...At least you will be away from flooding and violence....

BKK has only 1 immigration office you can use.

The other offices in BKK are for special cases/nationals of 3 neigbouring countries working in Thailand.

[lopburi3]

There is only one immigration office in Bangkok for normal use. One Stop is limited to some business extensions and Big C Latphao is for workers from adjoining countries.

[ThaidDown]

Wait a moment. If you are extending on basis of marriage you need 400k in a holding account for a minimum of 2 months. I tried to extend for a year based on income into my Thai bank account at Cheangwattana 2 months ago. They told me the same. No can do. You need the 400k in there at all times.

The immigration officer was correct, income is shown by Thai tax papers if working here with a valid work permit or by a letter from your embassy confirming your income.

If not legally working here monies going into your Thai bank are not counted as 'income' by immigration.

[realenglish1]

Under Thai Law you are entitled to a appeal so I would get a lawyer and have the lawyer handle it for you.

With a lawyer they are less likely to give you problems

It is in your best interest

[pizzachang]

I am hoping that you could apply at a different office and even possibly use one of the legal services, owned and operated by Thais. This is scary as I also use Embassy letter to verify my US Social Security and a State pension. Let us know what happens.

[JLCrab]

Under Thai Law you are entitled to a appeal so I would get a lawyer and have the lawyer handle it for you.

With a lawyer they are less likely to give you problems

It is in your best interest

Just to not that appealing and suing are not the same thing. The appeal process is referenced in paragraph 5. of the 777/2551 Police Order preface:

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police Bureau or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien’s application.

[andrewfenn]

He also said that if I didn't have enough money, I should go back to my home country and my wife should look for another husband.

I must say, i'm surprised by this. Even though I've found immigration to be very strict over the documents i've never encountered these types of comments from them. I would say you should report them however I fear without you getting your extension it will simply look like sour grapes over a rejection. The other poster had it right with his suggestion to record everything, that way there is evidence.

[ubonjoe]

Under Thai Law you are entitled to a  appeal so I would get a lawyer and have the lawyer handle it for you.

 

With a lawyer they are less likely to give you problems

 

It is in your best interest

No need for lawyer you can do it your self by writing it up and submitting it to immigration. See police order 777/2551.

Screen shot see 4.

[ubonjoe]

Under Thai Law you are entitled to a appeal so I would get a lawyer and have the lawyer handle it for you.

With a lawyer they are less likely to give you problems

It is in your best interest

Just to not that appealing and suing are not the same thing. The appeal process is referenced in paragraph 5. of the 777/2551 Police Order preface:

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police Bureau or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien’s application.

In this case it would be 4 not 5. Edited October 31, 2013 by ubonjoe

[thaiexpat21]

Wait a moment. If you are extending on basis of marriage you need 400k in a holding account for a minimum of 2 months. I tried to extend for a year based on income into my Thai bank account at Cheangwattana 2 months ago. They told me the same. No can do. You need the 400k in there at all times.

The immigration officer was correct, income is shown by Thai tax papers if working here with a valid work permit or by a letter from your embassy confirming your income.

If not legally working here monies going into your Thai bank are not counted as 'income' by immigration.

Income derived from abroad is validated by an Embassy letter which will be accepted by immigration.

[Bangkok45]

I don't know how many days you have left on your current permission to stay but if you need to get extra time you can apply for a 60-day extension under clause 2.24 of Police Order 777/2551

If I were in your shoes I would get the confirmation from the trust and then apply again, hoping to get a different officer to deal with me. If refused again, I would then use the second paragraph of clause 4 of the Police Order to appeal the refusal.

I agree with the above. But I would also advise getting an attorney to handle this as further dealings with an egotistical Thai officer in his department or be it any department would not be fruitful.

An attorney got mine done for a fee of 10000 baht paid only upon approval. From my point of view, it's a small price to pay to be rest assured and sleep easy.

Alternatively, google this company called Thaivisarun and ask for Phillip. Meet him in person at his office. You would get your extension (for a price, of course).

I'm sorry for your troubles. Chok dee...friend!

[Time Traveller]

Basically the immigration staff do what they want regardless of the rules anyway. Many years ago I had my Thailand sourced income option (including thai tax receipts) refused for marriage extension as well because of someone's crazy interpretation that income must be a pension income to qualify for marriage extension - I was 35 at the time.

The stress is just not worth it. Put the 400k in the bank, and then the worst they can do is ask for bank book updates again and again.

They then move on to the next topic of harassment like pictures of you at your home and rental leases etc

[ThaidDown]

Wait a moment. If you are extending on basis of marriage you need 400k in a holding account for a minimum of 2 months. I tried to extend for a year based on income into my Thai bank account at Cheangwattana 2 months ago. They told me the same. No can do. You need the 400k in there at all times.

The immigration officer was correct, income is shown by Thai tax papers if working here with a valid work permit or by a letter from your embassy confirming your income.

If not legally working here monies going into your Thai bank are not counted as 'income' by immigration.

Income derived from abroad is validated by an Embassy letter which will be accepted by immigration.

Agreed, but I was reading it that the poster was just using his bank book transfers as evidence of income without the embassy letter.

[tonyPhuket]

This situation looks very sour & unpleasant. No questions these Thai officers are very badly trained to qualify for the decisions. They just want the job and that is why they can not afford to lose their faces.

Therefore there is no point for you to reinforce their understanding - a complete waste of time. They should know better & you do not need to remind them anything.

The problem is "Who is monitoring for the better quality of their behaviour?". Or who is encouraging their monkey behaviour?

I have a marriage visa too & I am experiencing many difficulties over 8 years but not this one.

Meanwhile,

Try the 60-day extension to visit your wife in order to buy your time to solve this very unfair rejection.

Are you aware that you have another card from your sleeve? Have you thought about multi-entry non imm "O" (4 x 90 days within 1 year period)?

Good luck from my heart to you both.

Fully agree with this post . Savanakhet embassy in Lao will give you a 1 year multiple based on your marriage to a Thai and they won't ask for the 400,000 bt in the bank . Check the postings for Savanakhet for details , I also nearly had to do the same.

Pardon me as I don't understasnd. The original post is complaining that because he didn't meet the requirements of 400,000 in the bank, you are telling him to go to another office whereby they don't enforce the rules.

Isn't that got him into this situation in the first place? The document he's showing details previous payments but are no way indicative of future payments. I'd gather the Thai immigration believes 400,000 to be the minimum amount to sustain oneself in Thailand.

Stick to the rules and don't try to circumvent. They likelihood you'll be much happier and have a lot less worries.

To the OP, if your car and house is truly paid off as you wrote, take out a small loan to cover the 200,000K you are missing in your bank and do it the right way. That way there is nothing the officer can say or do. Plus, you signed the document.

I completely forget about 400K criteria for non imm O multi entry marriage visa. Sorry, thedragon. I am afraid that most embassies normally seek for 400K but not sure a proof of 40K income. (i.e. Kuala Lumpur Thai embassy - they need to see 100K but they have changed the rule to 400K with effect of June 2013 ). For Savanakhet embassy in Laos, I have no idea and deckard says 400K is not mandatory. Their nice rule won't be for long and it sounds risky. Yes, the loan may work....is the loan from Thai bank acceptable for farangs?

[jimkim]

Go to Lao same me . 5.000 for mar o ,no money in bank .15 month visa easy, plus 35 usd every 90 days ,!

[AloisAmrein]

The typical Thai arrogance to farang, even when married to Thai woman. If western countries would deal in the same way, there would be a great outcry of Thai authorities. That's why I refuse to spend a long time in Thailand, I not like all this visa hassles. I am married to a Thai wife too, and the way how Thai authorities treat farang husbands of Thai women ist clearly discriminating and racist. In most cases the Thai women fully depend on the money of the farang husbands. So I do not apply anymore for Thai visas, stay with visa exempt entry only and I prefer to spend my money elsewhere. After 30 days I go to Laos (visa-free entry) and return to Thailand.

[thaiexpat21]

The typical Thai arrogance to farang, even when married to Thai woman. If western countries would deal in the same way, there would be a great outcry of Thai authorities. That's why I refuse to spend a long time in Thailand, I not like all this visa hassles. I am married to a Thai wife too, and the way how Thai authorities treat farang husbands of Thai women ist clearly discriminating and racist. In most cases the Thai women fully depend on the money of the farang husbands. So I do not apply anymore for Thai visas, stay with visa exempt entry only and I prefer to spend my money elsewhere. After 30 days I go to Laos (visa-free entry) and return to Thailand.

Great idea !

Sooner or later you will be stopped from making serial visa exempt entries.

[JLCrab]

OK UJoe Paragraph 4. may better apply -- but under that paragraph of 777/2551 it seems he may only have 7 days to register an appeal.

[Beetlejuice]

I would like to ask the OP, who paid for the 3 million baht house that he claims he and his wife owns? Because if the said property was purchased with any monies other than solely his Thai wife`s money, than the property was not legally purchased. This also would not go down a bundle at Immigration.

Also how much of the OP`s wife`s income goes to subsidise his income and monthly expenditures? Because I doubt that this would win brownie points with Immigration either.

The trust fund that pays 80000 baht per month. How much is actually in the trust fund and what sort of trust fund is it? As this is something the Immigration officer will take into account. They can deny his visa extension if they have doubts regarding the source of this income and it`s credibility or concerns that this income will not be permanent.

Also if the OP has resided in Thailand for several years on a substantial income, and 80000 baht per month is a substantial income in Thai terms, plus his wife`s income, why does he not have 400000 baht saved in a Thai bank account? Which is not a fortune considering his alleged monthly incomes.

In my opinion the Immigration officer denied the visa extension because like me, considers the OP`s statements as rather vague and unclear, because all visa applications and extensions are issued solely at the officers discretion.

[fishhooks]

I use the Embassy letter each year as it's just an easy way for me to verify income. I would take your current documentation to a different Immigration office.

I use the one in Khon Kaen without a hitch. They seem to be Farang Friendly as I have not experienced anyone having an issue there.

Hmmm.............I was definitely asked for the "Brown Envelope" in KK a few years back and by "The Boss" lady!