Shocking Price Rises At Phoenix Golf Club Pattaya

[Champneys]

Really. No TV members, have any idea of changes?

Although I am Member of Phoenix I do not play there now and the only change I know of was the change in the compulsory cart rule which was made a few months ago. Of course bar groups are allowed back to play too. The new Golf Manager appears to be trying to attract more players. Now he needs to have some influence with the owner and bring the Phoenix members on side. However the owner cannot see that the Phoenix members could be her biggest asset if treated with respect. No idea of how to operate a successful golf club. Her way is the only way. Very sad state of affairs.

[bartpix]

It would seem that Phoenix has 2 managers now and appear to exhibit "a good cop / bad cop" scenario to entice players to return.

As previously stated, it would be great if sensibility were to prevail and members were welcomed to avail of the facilities they already paid for.

But for the moment, management are not willing to talk to the members and the struggle continues.

[Champneys]

Really. No TV members, have any idea of changes?

Although I am Member of Phoenix I do not play there now and the only change I know of was the change in the compulsory cart rule which was made a few months ago. Of course bar groups are allowed back to play too. The new Golf Manager appears to be trying to attract more players. Now he needs to have some influence with the owner and bring the Phoenix members on side. However the owner cannot see that the Phoenix members could be her biggest asset if treated with respect. No idea of how to operate a successful golf club. Her way is the only way. Very sad state of affairs.

As from January 4 , 2015 paid up members will be allowed to play without any green fee every day including weekends and holidays. Previously the only free day was Monday. Also the members guest green fee from that date has been reduced to 1000 baht for weekdays and 1500 baht for weekends and holidays. It appears that Management are too proud to discuss the problems in an official capacity with the members but realize that mistakes have been made and quietly try to correct them.Watch this space for the next correction.

[Champneys]

Really. No TV members, have any idea of changes?

Although I am Member of Phoenix I do not play there now and the only change I know of was the change in the compulsory cart rule which was made a few months ago. Of course bar groups are allowed back to play too. The new Golf Manager appears to be trying to attract more players. Now he needs to have some influence with the owner and bring the Phoenix members on side. However the owner cannot see that the Phoenix members could be her biggest asset if treated with respect. No idea of how to operate a successful golf club. Her way is the only way. Very sad state of affairs.

As from January 4 , 2015 paid up members will be allowed to play without any green fee every day including weekends and holidays. Previously the only free day was Monday. Also the members guest green fee from that date has been reduced to 1000 baht for weekdays and 1500 baht for weekends and holidays. It appears that Management are too proud to discuss the problems in an official capacity with the members but realize that mistakes have been made and quietly try to correct them.Watch this space for the next correction.

I stand corrected myself. It is from now until the 4th January that those rates apply. Sorry. It sounded a bit too good to be true.

[bartpix]

Just checked the Phoenix site for current rates:

Rates & Membership
18 Hole (Baht) 9 Hole (Baht)
Green Fee
- Weekday 2,500 1,300
- Weekend and Holiday 3,000 1,600
Caddy Fee 350 200
Golf Cart 700 350
Rental (Baht)
- Golf Set 1,200
- Golf Shoes 300
Umbrella 150

[Fisherman194]

Just checked the Phoenix site for current rates:

Rates & Membership

18 Hole (Baht) 9 Hole (Baht)

Green Fee

- Weekday 2,500 1,300

- Weekend and Holiday 3,000 1,600

Caddy Fee 350 200

Golf Cart 700 350

Rental (Baht)

- Golf Set 1,200

- Golf Shoes 300

Umbrella 150

Similar prices to first class courses in England,they don't deserve any customers Edited January 16, 2015 by Fisherman194

[bartpix]

FYI Update:

The first two cases brought by members against Phoenix Golf & Country Club have their oral hearings at Pattaya Court on Monday next (January 26th).

[Fisherman194]

FYI Update:

The first two cases brought by members against Phoenix Golf & Country Club have their oral hearings at Pattaya Court on Monday next (January 26th).

Surely it wil set a precedent win or lose for the numerous other complainants ?

[glanville63]

Yes it will set a precedent for Thais but will it be the same for other nationalities. Some strange things go on here !!!!!!

[bartpix]

FYI Update:

As with all Thai legal cases, at the first hearing the judge asks if there has been discussion between the parties involved and if they came to any agreement.

If the parties state there is no agreement between them the judge sets a date for a second hearing.

[gk10002000]

These prices are no longer cheap by USA standards.

Edited February 2, 2015 by gk10002000

[bartpix]

Golf round prices both in the US and Europe have been dropping over the past 12-24 months along with membership fees. Many of the European courses have dropped or even eliminated membership fees in an effort to boost income. According to ABC over 100 courses throughout the US closed during 2014. But Thailand I guess is the exception to what is happening elsewhere.

[bartpix]

I've heard ongoing negotiations by newest Phoenix owner to offload, are taking place with a beer company.

Has anybody else heard or know anything of this development?

[bartpix]

At last something positive to report.

After much shenannigans about the viability of the members case against Phoenix management and their stance,not talk to or negotiate with existing members about their rights, there is light on the horizon.

[topt]

At last something positive to report.

After much shenannigans about the viability of the members case against Phoenix management and their stance,not talk to or negotiate with existing members about their rights, there is light on the horizon.

Where is the light coming from.................?

Bye the way you may or may not know Phoenix organised a comp with free green fee and carts plus food and drink after (if you could be bothered to queue) Tuesday just past. Shotgun start with us and another team on the hole we started on. They used the PSC to invite teams from all the bars but was nothing to do with the PSC. Can only think it was to try and drum up future on-going business.

[bartpix]

I contacted the Golf Chairman of the PSC to clarify their position in relation to support they might give to PSC members who are also members of Phoenix and are not even granted either a meeting or discussion / negotiation over the penal changes to the conditions of our shareholder / memberships.

It seems our situation (as PSC + Phoenix members) was not discussed when the PSC agreed new arrangements with Phoenix. Surprising, I know, but I guess the meaning of "club" has changed from what I am used to.

[Fisherman194]

For PSC to show any support to Phoenix after the the way they treated lifetime members is totally without backbone or any moral fibre.I for one will never show any support for anything PSC does in the future.

[topt]

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I contacted the Golf Chairman of the PSC to clarify their position in relation to support they might give to PSC members who are also members of Phoenix and are not even granted either a meeting or discussion / negotiation over the penal changes to the conditions of our shareholder / memberships.

It seems our situation (as PSC + Phoenix members) was not discussed when the PSC agreed new arrangements with Phoenix. Surprising, I know, but I guess the meaning of "club" has changed from what I am used to.

For PSC to show any support to Phoenix after the the way they treated lifetime members is totally without backbone or any moral fibre.I for one will never show any support for anything PSC does in the future.

I would hardly say they are openly "supporting". To be fair the PSC is only trying to give all its members the opportunity to play all courses at the best rates. Unfortunately many PSC members as tourists (short and longer term) will have zero interest in the membership issues and just want to play the course especially as it is quite local.

Also they seem to do a lot for charity

[Fisherman194]

So topt Phoenix can steal many lifetime memberships off PSC members and it's ok, many members and none members have boycotted Phoenix for 17 months.There are many golf clubs near Pattaya and they chose to support Phoenix Had they not noticed it has not featured in golf society's venues, had they not noticed that it is no longer in the premier golf guide. Phoenix no longer exists as far as many golfers are concerned. But PSC decides to help them because someone from PSC has made friends with management,free golf maybe,thanks for your support PSC.

[BostonBurglar]

While I agree with some comments about the actions of the Golf Chairman of the PSC in relation to supporting the Phoenix tournament, please allow me my comment.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Golf Chairman of PSC is well aware of the boycott by over 300 members of Phoenix, and also that many if not most are PSC members as well. Along with this, unless he has his head buried in the sand, he knows how to contact the leaders of our protest group. Purely out of consideration for the actiions of

our group he should have, at the very least contacted someone to discuss this support issue.

I feel PSC has done and will continue to act in a positive manner for all it's members. I disagree with this totally unilateral decision by the Chairman, particularly when it was

based in part on his admitted new friendship with the GM of Phoenix. Based on conversations I have had recently with members that have spoken to the managerial staff of

Phoenix about rejoining Phoenix they get different stories depending on who they are talking to, but the one universal comment is NO, there will be no written statement as

part of you rejoining. Is this what your new "friendship" is based on Mr Chairman ?

Phoenix Mgt. since taking over in 2013 has shown the absolute disdain they hold for all of the PSC and bar supported groups. Even to the point that early on the rate for

PSC members was higher than the bars. I most strongly disagree with your support of Phoenix, no matter how fancy the clothes you want to dress it up in.

Boston Burglar

[topt]

While I agree with some comments about the actions of the Golf Chairman of the PSC in relation to supporting the Phoenix tournament, please allow me my comment.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Golf Chairman of PSC is well aware of the boycott by over 300 members of Phoenix, and also that many if not most are PSC members as well. Along with this, unless he has his head buried in the sand, he knows how to contact the leaders of our protest group. Purely out of consideration for the actiions of

our group he should have, at the very least contacted someone to discuss this support issue.

I feel PSC has done and will continue to act in a positive manner for all it's members. I disagree with this totally unilateral decision by the Chairman, particularly when it was

based in part on his admitted new friendship with the GM of Phoenix. Based on conversations I have had recently with members that have spoken to the managerial staff of

Phoenix about rejoining Phoenix they get different stories depending on who they are talking to, but the one universal comment is NO, there will be no written statement as

part of you rejoining. Is this what your new "friendship" is based on Mr Chairman ?

Phoenix Mgt. since taking over in 2013 has shown the absolute disdain they hold for all of the PSC and bar supported groups. Even to the point that early on the rate for

PSC members was higher than the bars. I most strongly disagree with your support of Phoenix, no matter how fancy the clothes you want to dress it up in.

Boston Burglar

BB good that something finally got you to contribute to TV!

Seriously though is your last sentence directed at me or the PSC chairman?

Just to be clear I am against what has happened to the members but with no axe to grind and no end in sight to the dispute when offered a free round of golf including cart locally with friends am I going to say no? To me that is not supporting Phoenix. I posted re the tournament as it did not seem that others were aware.

Also some bars had multiple teams present even though I know our "organiser" was told one team only.

[finsbury]

Just to be clear.

A good number of the Patts golf bars have now restarted playing at Phoenix. Many on a regular basis- at least two now weekly.

The Phoenix members made it clear to everyone else that their campaign was aimed solely at improving their own terms and they would not be interesting themselves in improving terms for the average PSC member.

So I am a little bemused why these same members feel that a Committee acting on behalf of all its members should be avoiding offending a relatively small group taking legal action against one of the rota of courses.

Get real folks. What has happened to you is unfortunate but is irrelevant to most of the rest of us.

Good luck with any legal action.

[bartpix]

Just to be Clear ...... Finsbury (whatever that means)

"The Phoenix members made it clear to everyone else that their campaign was aimed solely at improving their own terms and they would not be interesting themselves in improving terms for the average PSC member."

I have no idea where you plucked that "quote" from but it certainly was not included in the previous posts from Phoenix Shareholder / Members that contribute to TV postings. The existing Phoenix Shareholder / Members took the action not alone for their personable situation but for the benefit of all golfers that might wish to play Phoenix. And as you may have missed, the terms for golfers has changed at Phoenix since a case was initiated against them. Do you really think this would have occured without the case been brought against them?

If you do not wish to support the shareholder / member fight against injustice and right of membership as purchased - that is your right. But please get your facts correct and in your terms " get real ". If you wish to ignore what has happened at this course, that is your decision. But remember that once one club succeeds in " putting down the protest " the remainder of the cartel will follow.

Again I reiterate, I am retired and purchased my shareholder / membership of Phoenix with the sole purpose of playing golf for as long as I am able to, without hassle. That is what I paid for and expect. The new owners are trying to change the rules without discussion / consultation with existing shareholder / members. For me, this is not the way to do business. What I am really sad about is the attitude of posters such as Finsbury who have no consideration of the real case that is ongoing and are not interested in acquainting themselves with the facts.

After you have sought out the opinions of the shareholder / members and what has transpired to date, I look forward to your update.

[finsbury]

Just to be Clear ...... Finsbury (whatever that means)

"The Phoenix members made it clear to everyone else that their campaign was aimed solely at improving their own terms and they would not be interesting themselves in improving terms for the average PSC member."

I have no idea where you plucked that "quote" from but it certainly was not included in the previous posts from Phoenix Shareholder / Members that contribute to TV postings. The existing Phoenix Shareholder / Members took the action not alone for their personable situation but for the benefit of all golfers that might wish to play Phoenix. And as you may have missed, the terms for golfers has changed at Phoenix since a case was initiated against them. Do you really think this would have occured without the case been brought against them?

If you do not wish to support the shareholder / member fight against injustice and right of membership as purchased - that is your right. But please get your facts correct and in your terms " get real ". If you wish to ignore what has happened at this course, that is your decision. But remember that once one club succeeds in " putting down the protest " the remainder of the cartel will follow.

Again I reiterate, I am retired and purchased my shareholder / membership of Phoenix with the sole purpose of playing golf for as long as I am able to, without hassle. That is what I paid for and expect. The new owners are trying to change the rules without discussion / consultation with existing shareholder / members. For me, this is not the way to do business. What I am really sad about is the attitude of posters such as Finsbury who have no consideration of the real case that is ongoing and are not interested in acquainting themselves with the facts.

After you have sought out the opinions of the shareholder / members and what has transpired to date, I look forward to your update.

It was the law of supply and demand that made Phoenix change to a non compulsory cart rule. The idea that it was legal action taken by some disgruntled members is laughable.

Phoenix members have battled against the course giving attractive terms for PSC members for years, hence the lack of support you are getting from them now.

Lifetime members of Tony's Gym might feel your pain, but they probably will not be coming out on the streets in support either.

[LBFM1]

The practical justifications from the self appointed PSC spokespersons is clinging to an ethical hook that doesn't exist. There are many courses in the area and taking part in the divide and conqueor strategy of the new management is dubious. I for one would tear up my PSC card.

[Fisherman194]

Just to be Clear ...... Finsbury (whatever that means)

"The Phoenix members made it clear to everyone else that their campaign was aimed solely at improving their own terms and they would not be interesting themselves in improving terms for the average PSC member."

I have no idea where you plucked that "quote" from but it certainly was not included in the previous posts from Phoenix Shareholder / Members that contribute to TV postings. The existing Phoenix Shareholder / Members took the action not alone for their personable situation but for the benefit of all golfers that might wish to play Phoenix. And as you may have missed, the terms for golfers has changed at Phoenix since a case was initiated against them. Do you really think this would have occured without the case been brought against them?

If you do not wish to support the shareholder / member fight against injustice and right of membership as purchased - that is your right. But please get your facts correct and in your terms " get real ". If you wish to ignore what has happened at this course, that is your decision. But remember that once one club succeeds in " putting down the protest " the remainder of the cartel will follow.

Again I reiterate, I am retired and purchased my shareholder / membership of Phoenix with the sole purpose of playing golf for as long as I am able to, without hassle. That is what I paid for and expect. The new owners are trying to change the rules without discussion / consultation with existing shareholder / members. For me, this is not the way to do business. What I am really sad about is the attitude of posters such as Finsbury who have no consideration of the real case that is ongoing and are not interested in acquainting themselves with the facts.

After you have sought out the opinions of the shareholder / members and what has transpired to date, I look forward to your update.

It was the law of supply and demand that made Phoenix change to a non compulsory cart rule. The idea that it was legal action taken by some disgruntled members is laughable.

Phoenix members have battled against the course giving attractive terms for PSC members for years, hence the lack of support you are getting from them now.

Lifetime members of Tony's Gym might feel your pain, but they probably will not be coming out on the streets in support either.

[Fisherman194]

Finsbury,what a load of rubbish,the reason Phoenix have softened there terms to all and sundry is because they were not getting any customers because of the boycott by not only members but by golf tour companies the Pattaya guide and many other principled folks.Golfers are starting to go back because of the better terms to be had thanks to the boycott if you had gone and had a look at Phoenix golf course a couple of months after the boycott started the course was almost deserted.Yes as you say supply and demand there was no demand because of the actions of the boycotters.

[finsbury]

the reason Phoenix have softened there terms to all and sundry is because they were not getting any customers because of the boycott .

Customers stayed away because they put the prices up to silly levels and made carts compulsory. Nothing to do with your "boycott".

Now the prices are down, the cart policy is gone and the societies are coming back.

And, oh yes, the "boycott" is still just about going on.

[Fisherman194]

Finsbury if you cannot see that the boycott of 300 member not playing or spending any money at Phoenix and the resultant removal from the Pattaya golf guide led to them reducing prices then you have problem that you need to seek help for.If the members had accepted the price rises,the no walking rule etc do you think they would have now done what they have been forced to do.This is not a question aimed at you when you lift your head out of the sand.

[thinkingman]

It was an easy boycott for all because the prices and conditions, such as mandatory carts and non-refundable beverage vouchers, made the course uneconomic.

With little play and high prices, the owner lost a lot more money for a lot more months than she had planned. While there is some sentiment that, "she is so rich, the losses didn't matter", it is clear they did, because mandatory carts and beverage vouchers were scrapped and the price was reduced to PSC members effective March 1. However, golf society play just isn't enough for a 27 hole course.

So, the next light to go off is, "Why don't we sell some memberships?" But the memberships are non-competitive as there is a Bt200,000 transfer fee, as well as an annual fee of Bt24,000, plus Bt200 daily fee.

Phoenix needs the members to keep the activity and revenue up. So, soon you will see some sort of deal on the memberships (I would expect they will try something to screw the old members, such as introducing a new membership with a Bt10,000 transfer fee, but that is unlikely to work, just like the "Privilege Card" didn't work) coming up when things really get slow in the summer. I would expect that she will reach an accommodation with the old members, because she needs them.

And she needs them more than the old members, most of whom have made arrangements at other courses, need Phoenix.