Stabilizing that image

[sunshine51]

@ Fiddlesticks....

"Putting a costly head on a flimsy tripod is like putting lipstick on a pig."

OK...but do I have to kiss her?

[MJP]

Tywais... i honestly wouldn't play the chic, must have, boutique 'name game' when it comes to tripods.... makes....models....etc.....they're all basically the same bar the price tag.

i'd rather spend more money on a real quality head, which is far more important, and can be mounted on virtually any tripod you choose....be it an 'ikea' or a 'ferrari'

Putting a costly head on a flimsy tripod is like putting lipstick on a pig.

Besides being mechanically sound, a good tripod should be rock solid and not prone to vibration. The locking mechanisms on the legs should keep the legs from slipping just as a good tripod head should not be prone to slipping. For travelers, weight is a consideration and a light weight tripod is a real real plus especially when you are lugging a pack of lenses and cameras with you. Finally, a good tripod, like a good tripod head is an investment that will hopefully last the owner many many years.

Conclusion - both are important and having quality in one and going budget in the other is not wise - IN MY OPINION.

Fiddles, which tripod and head combos do you recommend?

Say a travel tripod and a 2 or 3 leg section tripod.

[Fiddlesticks]

Tywais... i honestly wouldn't play the chic, must have, boutique 'name game' when it comes to tripods.... makes....models....etc.....they're all basically the same bar the price tag.

i'd rather spend more money on a real quality head, which is far more important, and can be mounted on virtually any tripod you choose....be it an 'ikea' or a 'ferrari'

Putting a costly head on a flimsy tripod is like putting lipstick on a pig.

Besides being mechanically sound, a good tripod should be rock solid and not prone to vibration. The locking mechanisms on the legs should keep the legs from slipping just as a good tripod head should not be prone to slipping. For travelers, weight is a consideration and a light weight tripod is a real real plus especially when you are lugging a pack of lenses and cameras with you. Finally, a good tripod, like a good tripod head is an investment that will hopefully last the owner many many years.

Conclusion - both are important and having quality in one and going budget in the other is not wise - IN MY OPINION.

Fiddles, which tripod and head combos do you recommend?

Say a travel tripod and a 2 or 3 leg section tripod.

It really depends on the type of shooting you will be doing. Studio work is much different than field work. For landscape photography where you plan to hike into the bush and maybe set your tripod up in a running stream, then you will want a lightweight yet vibration resistant tripod. For me this means carbon fiber.

As far as heads go, again, different heads for different work. For landscapes I would want something with levels and pano capabilities.

My dream kit is a Really Right Stuff carbon fiber tripod like the TVC 24L (being tall, I do not want to be stooping over shorter tripods so a 3 section for me is not practical). The head I would want is the Arca Swiss D4 (manual). Now, at my proficiency level, I will just wait and use my Manfrotto 190XPROB and my Manfrotto 324RC2 Joystick Head (which I think is a piece of junk but hate buying a new head in Thailand and paying the duty).

All this being said, would this great tripod and head make me a better photographer? NO! I have yet to maximize the set I have now so to spend more on better equipment is foolish until I can truly justify the added cost (which is a looonnnggg way off.

[Goshawk]

Tywais... i honestly wouldn't play the chic, must have, boutique 'name game' when it comes to tripods.... makes....models....etc.....they're all basically the same bar the price tag.

i'd rather spend more money on a real quality head, which is far more important, and can be mounted on virtually any tripod you choose....be it an 'ikea' or a 'ferrari'

Putting a costly head on a flimsy tripod is like putting lipstick on a pig.

Besides being mechanically sound, a good tripod should be rock solid and not prone to vibration. The locking mechanisms on the legs should keep the legs from slipping just as a good tripod head should not be prone to slipping. For travelers, weight is a consideration and a light weight tripod is a real real plus especially when you are lugging a pack of lenses and cameras with you. Finally, a good tripod, like a good tripod head is an investment that will hopefully last the owner many many years.

Conclusion - both are important and having quality in one and going budget in the other is not wise - IN MY OPINION.

my point is avoid the big 'names' costing many £X hundreds of dosh....when a sub £hundred virtually identical lesser 'name' is perfectly fine. Spend that difference on a good head.

i'm talking from experience....my trusty tripod gets put through some very challenging times.....often doubling as a staff to aid creek crossings....or as a trekking pole if i'm shuffling up a wooded incline... It's neither 'flimsy' or too heavy or expensive (& has been going strong for over 10 years now)

[MJP]

Having gone through the painfully expensive experience of getting into this camera thing, I have this advice for newbies.

Start off with a super-compact with comprehensive manual controls which can shoot RAW, like the Fuji X100s (avoid Sony) and get Lightroom and Photoshop Elements to begin with. Learn photography using this thing for at least two years and if you get really into it as a serious pastime do not bother with beginner or mid-range kit. Go straight to the high end equipment like Really Right Stuff and Arca Swiss, the high end cameras like Nikon FX and magical lenses like Carl Zeiss. If you don't want to continue down this financially ruinous path, at least you'll still have a superb camera that you understand. This two year period will also give you time to decide which areas of photography you'd like to pursue.

It's pointless wasting what adds up to vast amounts of money on beginner and mid-range equipment that's okay, but not that great, whilst in the end you end up getting the expensive stuff anyway.

Sunshine mentioned a Gitzo tripod that's 40 years old. That's the point. If you get the best and look after it, it's cheaper and much more enjoyable in the long run.

Edited November 4, 2013 by MJP

[Fiddlesticks]

Tywais... i honestly wouldn't play the chic, must have, boutique 'name game' when it comes to tripods.... makes....models....etc.....they're all basically the same bar the price tag.

i'd rather spend more money on a real quality head, which is far more important, and can be mounted on virtually any tripod you choose....be it an 'ikea' or a 'ferrari'

Putting a costly head on a flimsy tripod is like putting lipstick on a pig.

Besides being mechanically sound, a good tripod should be rock solid and not prone to vibration. The locking mechanisms on the legs should keep the legs from slipping just as a good tripod head should not be prone to slipping. For travelers, weight is a consideration and a light weight tripod is a real real plus especially when you are lugging a pack of lenses and cameras with you. Finally, a good tripod, like a good tripod head is an investment that will hopefully last the owner many many years.

Conclusion - both are important and having quality in one and going budget in the other is not wise - IN MY OPINION.

my point is avoid the big 'names' costing many £X hundreds of dosh....when a sub £hundred virtually identical lesser 'name' is perfectly fine. Spend that difference on a good head.

i'm talking from experience....my trusty tripod gets put through some very challenging times.....often doubling as a staff to aid creek crossings....or as a trekking pole if i'm shuffling up a wooded incline... It's neither 'flimsy' or too heavy or expensive (& has been going strong for over 10 years now)

Judging from your photos, I would say that your tripod is doing a very good job for you. If it works, stick with it. My Manfrotto tripod also works for me and will likely do so for many years to come. Do I like lugging the weight around on my backpack? No! But I do nevertheless. The joystick head does slip from time to time. Wish I had gotten a simple ball head.

I guess in the end, it's all a matter of choice. Would I like to drive a Land Rover? Sure, but my Fiesta gets me where I want to go and saves me a lot of $$$ for other things. Would I recommend others not to get a Land Rover? No. It's a GREAT vehicle and will outlast me Fiesta and take you places my Fiesta never could. I would simply say, enjoy your beautiful Land Rover!

[Tywais]

Finally got around to getting a tripod. I wanted something portable but still reasonably stable with replaceable heads. Picked up a Manfrotto locally but the ball head is just not up to it so ordered a more adjustable head with built in levels. Much heavier head. My new tripod and what it replaced. A little different wouldn't you say? It is substantially heavier than the junk one I had but still quite portable with a soft carrying case. New head on order shown below.

[Goshawk]

^ looks ok does that Tywais....gets a decent video review on YouTube too.

[astral]

Don't forget natural tripods, like trees, tables, resting your camera against an upright to reduce shake

Even putting the camera on the ground to capture a ceiling in an impressive building.

[Tywais]

Just received my Vanguard SBH-300 ball head and impressed with the sturdiness and build quality. Magnesium Alloy construction. Cost - $87 USD

[MJP]

Feisol tripods. Apparently the legs are extremely good but the heads not so good.

http://www.globaltechcommerce.co.uk/feisoluk/

http://www.globaltechcommerce.co.uk/feisoluk/18-ct-3372lv-elite.html#/section_type-rapid

I've thought of a decent tripod system, a systemic with optional centre column (I don't like centre columns, but they can be useful).

Legs: Feisol CT3372LV - £444

Head: Really Right Stuff BH55 (without clamp) - £350 imported from US including duty and VAT.

Clamp: Benro PC-1 (have already)

The modern Gitzo's are getting poor reviews and their Ocean systemic range is brutally price gouged, like bizarre numbers. Just the legs are over a £1000 and the Ocean systemics run to £1700!!! Stupid. For what?

The 3 Legged Thing is no all but completely dead. One leg is wobbling around and freely rotating. Took the centre column out and put the head straight on the spider to form a more stable systemic style, now head won't come off. Feet are always coming loose.

[MJP]

Also look at Markins Q balls.

http://www.markinsamerica.com/MA5/category.php?req=1

[sunshine51]

Feisol tripods. Apparently the legs are extremely good but the heads not so good.

http://www.globaltechcommerce.co.uk/feisoluk/

http://www.globaltechcommerce.co.uk/feisoluk/18-ct-3372lv-elite.html#/section_type-rapid

I've thought of a decent tripod system, a systemic with optional centre column (I don't like centre columns, but they can be useful).

Legs: Feisol CT3372LV - £444

Head: Really Right Stuff BH55 (without clamp) - £350 imported from US including duty and VAT.

Clamp: Benro PC-1 (have already)

The modern Gitzo's are getting poor reviews and their Ocean systemic range is brutally price gouged, like bizarre numbers. Just the legs are over a £1000 and the Ocean systemics run to £1700!!! Stupid. For what?

The 3 Legged Thing is no all but completely dead. One leg is wobbling around and freely rotating. Took the centre column out and put the head straight on the spider to form a more stable systemic style, now head won't come off. Feet are always coming loose.

Welcome back MJP!

Even my Induro legs (carbon 414's) got some really bad press about a year & a half back.

Seems that the leg locks didn't. That was remedied in a jiffy though. I had a similar problem

with a Vinten Vision 20 set of legs (2K Sterling just for the legs) where one leg lock didn't

and almost lost me broadcast camera. Vinten fixed their problem in manufacturing very

quick but I had already switched to Sachtler as a result of the problem. My 40 year old Gitzo

that weighs a ton always works...nothing more needs to be said save for the fact that in todays

world quality manufacturing has gone right into the trash can. This applies to cameras also;

the build quality of...say a Nik D4 or D800 is good in todays world but not as good as an old

F2 or F4 from 40 to nearly 30 years back. My old F2AS & F4s still work as advertised whereas

I don't think I'll be around for a test of my D800 in 40 more years...but I'll bet a "tenner" it

won't work at all by then.

Hell...even mountain bike forks are not immune to bad manufacturing these days. The German

company Magura had some very bad press because one model of air shock fork broke and the

bikes rider died. Magura recalled all forks of that model sold worldwide and replaced this particular

model with a higher priced fork for free but the damage had already been done...most Magura

clients had switched brands already. This single event cost Magura much more than an Empire's

worth of money...their reputation instantly went to shit & they're still recovering.

I reckon it's the same with everything one buys today...why should a manufacturer build something

that will last for 50 years or longer when a customer will "upgrade" or change brands/models

within a couple of years. Cars are a fine example in todays world...so are camera models!

[MJP]

Hello there Sunshine!

A Morgan. Best off with a Morgan, I always say. Timeless they are. Or an old diesel VW.

The problem for the newbie-would-be-pro-tog is you don't realize how much money is wasted buying the 'mid-range' kit. Most of it's flimsy junk and you end up with a pile of stuff that once added up has cost a fortune and in now heading to the landfill. Go to the popular review sites and they tout the 'best' equipment, which are actually just toys. They rarely ever say 'best [insert thing] for below [insert $$$ amount]'.

Quality costs money see. But not in the long run. If you take the cost of your Gitzo and divide it by the number of years service and now adjust for inflation, it's been a lot cheaper than my 3 Legged Thing, which has never really been a joy to use in any case.

These days it's finding quality, that's the difficult bit. Almost everything is designed and manufactured by a dull little accountant man who wears a white shirt and grey polyester slacks, named Dereck. There are few physical shops anymore to actually look and handle these things and so we are left with this endless quest via Google. I've found that by avoiding the tainted review sites and sticking to actual user reviews, a short list can be had.

One thing to watch is companies which are playing on a successful name, once known for quality and durability, but are now run by the Dereck's of this McWorld we live in.

Edited December 26, 2013 by astral
Removal of long quote

[sunshine51]

^ MJP...

I paid a fair bit of dosh for that Gitzo when it was new...somewhere between 200-not over

400 USD back in 1973. That was unheard of in those days unless one was buying a fluid

head & wooden legs for a 16mm motion picture camera such as an Arriflex BL16 or CP16.

For a lightweight tripod I bought a Slik and it was really good...so good somebody nicked

it & I was left hefting the Gitzo which was ugly & heavy hence nearly theft proof. I mean who

in their right mind would steal a puke green mottled finish tripod & head that weighs 12 kilos

and hope to run far enough away to avoid capture?! 12 kilos without camera & lens on it

mind you. It's damn near nuke proof...and still works as advertised these days when used

on very rare occasions just to see if it still does actually work. For a centre column tripod

that centre column is 60mm in diameter...and like the rest of legs....made entirely of

nuclear grade stainless steel (or so it seems but stainless steel nonetheless). The column

crank is as smooth as a baby's butt to use and the lock does just that...lock. For a three

stage still camera tripod the fat bit of the legs (top most) are 45mm in diameter! The lower

bits are 30mm in diameter. The head is made from steel and looks similar to Manfrottos

3 way pan & tilt head...it has a 30 kilo load rating and it's smooth too...just as smooth as

todays heads are. But...it's a beast that I will never get rid of. When I bought it, the beast

didn't come in some fancy Cordura nylon bag with a padded shoulder strap attached; it

came in a fiberglass case with a handle that had a rubber grip to make carrying just the

empty case easier! It was built to last a lifetime.

This whole mess today with the Derecks (I love that!) seemed to start after Gulf War 1

when it was discovered by a bean counter, most likely named Dereck, that the cost of

the entire media coverage of said Gulf War 1 was astronomically more than the cost

of all the forces expentitures (bullets & bombs aren't free) to prosecute said conflict.

This is a fact MJP.

And this is the exact moment when the Dereck's took over the world and everything

went to shit. Nowadays...everything has a short shelf life...even us.

As a musical analogy to this global Dereck's problem here's a song...sad I

have to use it because it's one of my favourite tunes!

Happy Holidays!

[draggons]

I've got a Manfroto 055CLB with a 3 way pan & tilt head. Solid piece of kit but a heavy lump to hump about all day

[MJP]

3 Legged Thing Brian's leg has now completely fallen off. The glue failed, it started wobbling and then just dropped off. This after being used about a dozen times, light work, carefully handled.

Complete waste of £379.

I believe these are Chinese Triopo tripods rebranded. Avoid.

I have a Fancier tripod, solid as a rock back in the UK, picked it up in Phnom Penh years ago for $90. I'll stick with that.

[Fiddlesticks]

Thought it was time to upgrade my tripod set-up and knock off one item on my dream list. So today I placed my order with Really Right Stuff for this rig . . .

http://www.martinbaileyphotography.com/2012/09/01/really-right-stuff-camera-supports-review-podcast-350/

My trusty Manfrotto set-up served me well but I plan to part ways with it. If anyone is interested in a Manfrotto 055PROBX tripod and a Manfrotto 327RC2 light duty grip ball head with Quick Release, PM me and maybe we can make a deal. Willing to ship anywhere in Thailand.

[MJP]

Nice one Fiddles.

Getting an RRS into the UK is expensive due to governmental transaction interference.

I've decided on Feisol for the legs . . .

http://www.globaltechcommerce.co.uk/feisoluk/19-ct-3472lv-elite.html

RRS BH-55 (no clamp) for the ball head . . .

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/s.nl/it.A/id.4116/.f

or a Markins Q-20

. . . and use my Benro panoramic head as the clamp.

[sunshine51]

^^^ RRS make great stuff. About a year ago I bought their L brackets

for my Nik's...can't live without em these days. But man are they pricey!

[MJP]

There's a good quote in this . . .

If you can make do with cheaper, that’s great! But most people I know end up spending more money on camera supports than is really necessary because they start off cheap, and gradually replace their tripods and heads as they grow as photographers, and find inadequacies in their gear. I’ve done this myself, going through a number of tripods and ball heads over the years. If you read this early enough in your photographic life, you may even be able to save yourself a little money by just going for the best now, because that’s what Really Right Stuff gear is, the best.

http://www.martinbaileyphotography.com/2012/09/01/really-right-stuff-camera-supports-review-podcast-350/

This is absolutely correct. I think if you're going into this photog thing, then when it comes to the universal gear like tripods and heads, don't bother with the mid-range stuff.

That said, the modern day Gitzo's have not been getting good reliability reviews. So it's not all about price.

[Fiddlesticks]

Nice one Fiddles.

Getting an RRS into the UK is expensive due to governmental transaction interference.

I've decided on Feisol for the legs . . .

http://www.globaltechcommerce.co.uk/feisoluk/19-ct-3472lv-elite.html

RRS BH-55 (no clamp) for the ball head . . .

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/s.nl/it.A/id.4116/.f

or a Markins Q-20

. . . and use my Benro panoramic head as the clamp.

Looks like a solid setup. I see your also see the merits of the BH-55 head. It is rock solid. Good luck with it.

[MJP]

It's either that or the Markins . . .

https://www.photoproshop.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/10/products_id/70?osCsid=nntcd14a5ooasr15ngaq2e93n0

https://www.photoproshop.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/10/products_id/29

BH55 even after import might work out a fair bit cheaper, they're on a par regards quality.

Edited January 16, 2014 by astral
Removal of long quote - Please use Reply button a the bottom

[Fiddlesticks]

^^^ RRS make great stuff. About a year ago I bought their L brackets

for my Nik's...can't live without em these days. But man are they pricey!

I also ordered the L Bracket for my 5D M ii. Tired of flipping the camera off axis to get portrait oriented shots. Now will have to deal with keeping the Black Rapid readily connectable. since I use a tripod for the majority of my shots I will want to keep the L Bracket on all the time.

RRS is pricy but when you think how much you spend on quality glass to get sharp images, then put your camera on questionable tripods it makes sense to invest in a quality support to get the best from your glass. Also I know it will last for a good long time.

[MJP]

^^^ RRS make great stuff. About a year ago I bought their L brackets

for my Nik's...can't live without em these days. But man are they pricey!

I also ordered the L Bracket for my 5D M ii. Tired of flipping the camera off axis to get portrait oriented shots. Now will have to deal with keeping the Black Rapid readily connectable. since I use a tripod for the majority of my shots I will want to keep the L Bracket on all the time.

RRS is pricy but when you think how much you spend on quality glass to get sharp images, then put your camera on questionable tripods it makes sense to invest in a quality support to get the best from your glass. Also I know it will last for a good long time.

This is it.

When I took my first steps down this path I asked a bloke that had been doing this a long time what was the most important bit of kit.

Answer. Tripod and head.

He said to get the best out of your body and glass you start with the support. Said this was the most critical item.

I didn't understand at the time and carried on buying junk. Now I just have a pile of junk.

[sunshine51]

RRS make great stuff...perhaps the next time I need a new head/tripod I'll go their way.

But my Induro has to die first and so far It's very much alive and supportive. Any camera

& lens combo without good support is like....handheld!

[MJP]

Induro is the other option. But finding any of this good stuff in the UK is near impossible. Just like with wine, the UK only gets all the shit and even that is double the price of anywhere else in the world.

I notice B&H has a massive store in New York. If I make a move to Nikon at the end of 2014 I think it would be cheaper, as in much cheaper, to fly from London to NY and get all the gear in one hit.

Edited January 16, 2014 by MJP

[sunshine51]

^^^MJP...If you ever do go into the B & H store...as I have done only once...you will never

have access to enough money! Just a warning....

[MJP]

^^^MJP...If you ever do go into the B & H store...as I have done only once...you will never

have access to enough money! Just a warning....

I have seen this written elsewhere.

Aim would be to order and pay for online and go there to pick up.

I'm not much of an impulse buyer, especially with this camera stuff (it's so expensive). Even that CarrySpeed strap was planned expenditure. Everything is researched down to the nth degree.

My Makro shopping here is done with military precision. (I leave the kids at home and go with a list).

[MJP]

I've gone done it . . . .

Ordered the Induro CT414 8X with BHL-3 head.