Rice panel to mull urgent Bt140-bn loan for pledging

[monkeycountry]

Was wondering if this is the same 140 billion that it was reported that the BAAC would borrow on the 21/10.

21.10 The Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) will borrow 140 billion baht with the Finance Ministry's guarantee to fund the 270-billion-baht budget set for the government's rice-pledging

The WILL seems to indicate they had permission to borrow that lot then.

So is this another 140 billion that is being 'mulled' ?

Anyway where will they borrow this money from?

We already have 350 billion borrowed from Thai banks and the Govt has said it will be issuing more bonds.

There is the 2.2 trillion coming up, the Govt has said 60% of that is expected to be borrowed from Thai banks.

There was in the last few days a report that one minister or other said they Thai banks had enough liquidity to cover the lot.

Could that be an indication that it appears that no one else wants to lend it.

The piggy bank must be getting close to the bottom and not just the BAAC.

Any Thai or foreign bank will be more than happy to lend to Thailand, provided the interest rate is attractive. Thai banks combined have all the necessary liquidity and should they fall short, they will simply borrow abroad.

[Spare]

If Mark is voted in, I hope the farmer will not get a penny of my tax money.

[hellodolly]

Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) president Luck Wajananawat yesterday said the request would be raised at the meeting, and |that the loan would be used to cover rice pledging during the 2013-2014 harvest

Where did the money from the 2012-2013 sale go.

Was it sold for less than they paid for it?

[hellodolly]

He said the BAAC has paid Bt600-800 billion for the rice subsidy but was paid at only Bt140 billion, making it impossible for the bank to secure new financial injection for the scheme. (MCOT online news)

800 Billion paid minus 140 Billion repaid = 660 Billion loss 260 Billion loss.

Ok, got it now.

It is because you do not understand Thai accounting. Like some amateur stock traders, the PTP seem to believe in socalled paper loss.

Ie. You buy a share for 100 baht, the next day the value drops to 50 baht. Then many amateurs, and apparently the PTP, believe they still have shares worth 100 baht since they have not yet sold their share. Any professional stock trader or accountant will of course tell you that you have lost 50 baht and now have shares worth only 50 baht.

Well to be honest you haven't lost any thing or gained any thing until you sell it.

[PeterSmiles]

He said the BAAC has paid Bt600-800 billion for the rice subsidy but was paid at only Bt140 billion, making it impossible for the bank to secure new financial injection for the scheme. (MCOT online news)

800 Billion paid minus 140 Billion repaid = 660 Billion loss 260 Billion loss.

Ok, got it now.

It is because you do not understand Thai accounting. Like some amateur stock traders, the PTP seem to believe in socalled paper loss.

Ie. You buy a share for 100 baht, the next day the value drops to 50 baht. Then many amateurs, and apparently the PTP, believe they still have shares worth 100 baht since they have not yet sold their share. Any professional stock trader or accountant will of course tell you that you have lost 50 baht and now have shares worth only 50 baht.

Well to be honest you haven't lost any thing or gained any thing until you sell it.

To be honest, you lose from the very moment you pay for something that you know you never can sell at the same price.

[whybother]

If Mark is voted in, I hope the farmer will not get a penny of my tax money.

The Democrats gave money directly to the farmers, so they'll still get your tax money.

[whybother]

Commerce Minister admits Bt260 billion loss from rice subsidy

If he's admitting to that much, it's mostly likely twice that.

[edwinchester]

If Mark is voted in, I hope the farmer will not get a penny of my tax money.

 

The Democrats had their own rice subsidy that was paid directly to the farmer. It worked well and was less open to corruption.

[Ricardo]

It is because you do not understand Thai accounting. Like some amateur stock traders, the PTP seem to believe in socalled paper loss.

Ie. You buy a share for 100 baht, the next day the value drops to 50 baht. Then many amateurs, and apparently the PTP, believe they still have shares worth 100 baht since they have not yet sold their share. Any professional stock trader or accountant will of course tell you that you have lost 50 baht and now have shares worth only 50 baht.

Well to be honest you haven't lost any thing or gained any thing until you sell it.

Beg to differ, the stock-in-hand of a widely-traded commodity is IMO worth what you can sell it for, or what it would cost to replace, often called "mark to market", and old-fashioned historical-cost valuation only works where the price is very stable & the product easily-sellable, which clearly this rice is not.

It would arguably also be acceptable to include the part-cost of processing, in this case of milling/bagging-up, were one to use historical-cost.

The concept thus accounts for stock-in-hand, at whatever stage of manufacture it might have reached, for example a part-manufactured car (on a production-line) would be valued at more than the steel which had originally gone into it.

The manufacture so-far undergone would have added to the value of the steel, so long as the factory was still running as a going-concern, although in a wind-up bankruptcy situation it would perhaps fall to the scrap-value only.

Like rotting rice being written-down, to recognise the loss already incurred, in an unsold commodity which was unlikely ever to achieve replacement-cost of freshly-harvested rice.

CEOs of struggling companies have long & interesting (to accountants) discussions on such things, with their Financial-Directors. Ah, Happy Days !

[Spare]

If Mark is voted in, I hope the farmer will not get a penny of my tax money.

The Democrats had their own rice subsidy that was paid directly to the farmer. It worked well and was less open to corruption.

Mark may want to subsidies any poor old farmers he wants, BUT NOT with my tax money. Is that too much to ask for?

[Thai at Heart]

He said the BAAC has paid Bt600-800 billion for the rice subsidy but was paid at only Bt140 billion, making it impossible for the bank to secure new financial injection for the scheme. (MCOT online news)

800 Billion paid minus 140 Billion repaid = 660 Billion loss 260 Billion loss.

Ok, got it now.

It is because you do not understand Thai accounting. Like some amateur stock traders, the PTP seem to believe in socalled paper loss.

Ie. You buy a share for 100 baht, the next day the value drops to 50 baht. Then many amateurs, and apparently the PTP, believe they still have shares worth 100 baht since they have not yet sold their share. Any professional stock trader or accountant will of course tell you that you have lost 50 baht and now have shares worth only 50 baht.

Well to be honest you haven't lost any thing or gained any thing until you sell it.

Until you try to value it to borrow more....

[edwinchester]

 

If Mark is voted in, I hope the farmer will not get a penny of my tax money.

 

The Democrats had their own rice subsidy that was paid directly to the farmer. It worked well and was less open to corruption.

 

 

Mark may want to subsidies any poor old farmers he wants, BUT NOT with my tax money. Is that too much to ask for?

Governments are elected on their policies supposedly. Both the Dems and PT have rice subsidy schemes so yes you are asking too much.

[rubl]

If Mark is voted in, I hope the farmer will not get a penny of my tax money.

The Democrats had their own rice subsidy that was paid directly to the farmer. It worked well and was less open to corruption.

Mark may want to subsidies any poor old farmers he wants, BUT NOT with my tax money. Is that too much to ask for?

either you're no longer a Thai taxpayer or you must be terribly p_ssed off with the Yingluck government which lost about US$ 10 billion in two years only, and that's only the rice price pledging scheme!

[Bluespunk]

"The minister refused to accept that the government faced a huge loss of Bt300 billion to Bt400 billion for the past two years of pledging."

You can refuse to accept all you want. It's still true.

[waza]

"The minister refused to accept that the government faced a huge loss of Bt300 billion to Bt400 billion for the past two years of pledging."

You can refuse to accept all you want. It's still true.

I refuse to accept it too, I believe the cost will more likely be in the 1 trillion baht ball park

[monkeycountry]

He said the BAAC has paid Bt600-800 billion for the rice subsidy but was paid at only Bt140 billion, making it impossible for the bank to secure new financial injection for the scheme. (MCOT online news)

800 Billion paid minus 140 Billion repaid = 660 Billion loss 260 Billion loss.

Ok, got it now.

It is because you do not understand Thai accounting. Like some amateur stock traders, the PTP seem to believe in socalled paper loss.

Ie. You buy a share for 100 baht, the next day the value drops to 50 baht. Then many amateurs, and apparently the PTP, believe they still have shares worth 100 baht since they have not yet sold their share. Any professional stock trader or accountant will of course tell you that you have lost 50 baht and now have shares worth only 50 baht.

Well to be honest you haven't lost any thing or gained any thing until you sell it.

I hope you are joking. If not, I suggest you ask your stock broker or bank if they agree :-)

[hon123]

I don't think he is flexible enough to accept that much money

[rubl]

The other newspaper has an interesting article on rice and prices and so.

It would seem local rice prices drop because the government is a wee bit slow in payment and farmers can only pledge upto 350,000 Baht per household. Selling outside the scheme paddy may fetch 6500 to 8000 Baht a tonne depending on moisture contents. Maybe our daily 'khao pad' portions may increase in size again?

Also mentioned is the non-revolving funds of 679 billion Baht used to buy 42 million tonnes of paddy since October 2011. I assume the 140 billion of this topic comes on top of that. Mind you it would seem the Ministry of Commerce already returned 140 billion to the BAAC with maybe another 10 billion before the end of the year!

In the mean time even internationally prices are falling. Image what the government could have done with the possibly 360++ billion loss

[Nickymaster]

If Mark is voted in, I hope the farmer will not get a penny of my tax money.

The Democrats had their own rice subsidy that was paid directly to the farmer. It worked well and was less open to corruption.

Mark may want to subsidies any poor old farmers he wants, BUT NOT with my tax money. Is that too much to ask for?

Unfortunately in a democracy you can't always control that. Sorry buddy. I suggest you leave Thailand asap.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Ricardo]

The other newspaper has an interesting article on rice and prices and so.

It would seem local rice prices drop because the government is a wee bit slow in payment and farmers can only pledge upto 350,000 Baht per household. Selling outside the scheme paddy may fetch 6500 to 8000 Baht a tonne depending on moisture contents. Maybe our daily 'khao pad' portions may increase in size again?

Also mentioned is the non-revolving funds of 679 billion Baht used to buy 42 million tonnes of paddy since October 2011. I assume the 140 billion of this topic comes on top of that. Mind you it would seem the Ministry of Commerce already returned 140 billion to the BAAC with maybe another 10 billion before the end of the year!

In the mean time even internationally prices are falling. Image what the government could have done with the possibly 360++ billion loss

I wonder what rate-of-interest the government is paying the BAAC, for the several hundreds of billions of baht they've had to borrow, because the government can't reimburse them for the money paid out on the rice-scheme ?

Moody's must be laughing their heads off, and sharpening their red-pencils, in anticipation !