Passport as a deposit for a motorcycle

[JoeLing]

I usually keep passports of my guests in the safe and provide them with as many copies they want.
If they want to hire a bike from our recommended rental places, then all they have to do is fill out a
rental agreement. If ever there is a problem with them, I will always be happy to negotiate in a
favourable way for both parties involved. No, I don't get any commission, what I get is reputation.

Should you be stopped by police and you show them a copy of your passport with the Entry Card
copy, they are mostly happy.

Try telling some youngsters to keep an eye on their passports five minutes before they embark to
the full moon party. Or, are you sure you want to leave your valuables in your room at a time where
thieves have high season?

You would be surprised how little help police provides helping the owners of the bikes or hotels,
to recover the losses, should a tourist break a bike or just run away without paying his bills. This
incidents have occurred more and more over the last few years. So you might need to understand
hotels or rental places that want a Passport as deposit.

According to law, you would need an international driving licence. Not just for cars but the box for
motorbikes needs to be ticked as well. So I recon 98% of the bikes on the road here on the island
are driven illegally.

So in a relative "law less environment" don't expect things to be "according to law" ;-)

[watcharacters]

.

Give only copies and 10,000 of each…

Bloody hell...

[Rooo]

According to law, you would need an international driving licence. Not just for cars but the box for

motorbikes needs to be ticked as well. So I recon 98% of the bikes on the road here on the island

are driven illegally.

Then they are illegally renting a motorbike to an unlicensed rider with NO recourse.

Why in the world would you do that & try to cover yourself by keeping a passport as security? Because you probably know as the person renting it out, you can't really go to the police ( not that it helps ).

What are you going to tell them? You rented a bike knowing fully well that the person is unlicensed?

Wonder how can they claim insurance in case of an accident then, for damage & personal?

[Neilly]

I think we’ve pretty much covered the in’s and out’s of whether is legal to hand over your passport...it’s not.

But, should you wish to do so, and as the OP wished rent a CRF (off road bike) and then maybe drop it, if you did, then take it to Honda in Nathon and get them to price the replacement parts. Even if you have to rent the bike for an extra day it will save you a lot of money.

I have friends who rent bikes and have lost them, I’ve also had friends who’ve been ripped off for damage...the last time was a couple of months ago, few scratches and were asked to pay Bt40k...they settled on Bt20k...although the new parts wouldn’t have cost more than Bt3k

“Up to you” as the girls say round here

[JoeLing]

That is correct, the passport is not your property, it belongs to the country issuing it. Wait & see what happens if the person holding it won't return it.

I have known the consulate / embassy get involved & getting it back in a hurry. Because as I said it belongs to the country of issue not you.

You are not allowed to leave it with anyone.

Actually it does not say your "not allowed to leave it with anyone" but your responsible for safe keeping, what is slightly different.

You can deposit your passport at your bank if you wish, you can deposit it at your hotel if you're comfortably satisfied that it's safe. Would you rather have your passport safe at the hotel, leave in your room or take it with you to the beach for a swim?

If they don't want to hand it back to you, then contact immigration and they will get it back for you.

Although if you have outstanding hotel bills or rental bills, they will advice you to pay first your bill.

Edited November 13, 2013 by JoeLing

[transam]

That is correct, the passport is not your property, it belongs to the country issuing it. Wait & see what happens if the person holding it won't return it.

I have known the consulate / embassy get involved & getting it back in a hurry. Because as I said it belongs to the country of issue not you.

You are not allowed to leave it with anyone.

Actually it does not say your "not allowed to leave it with anyone" but your responsible for safe keeping, what is slightly different.

You can deposit your passport at your bank if you wish, you can deposit it at your hotel if you're comfortably satisfied that it's safe. Would you rather have your passport safe at the hotel, leave in your room or take it with you to the beach for a swim?

If they don't want to hand it back to you, then contact immigration and they will get it back for you.

Although if you have outstanding hotel bills or rental bills, they will advice you to pay first your bill.

You are splitting hairs. Your passport should not be used as a bargaining tool to achieve something/anything. Keeping it safe in a safe is a totally different scenario.

PS. I still don't understand that some of you cannot understand that your passport doe's not belong to you.

Edited November 13, 2013 by transam

[notmyself]

That is correct, the passport is not your property, it belongs to the country issuing it. Wait & see what happens if the person holding it won't return it.

I have known the consulate / embassy get involved & getting it back in a hurry. Because as I said it belongs to the country of issue not you.

You are not allowed to leave it with anyone.

Actually it does not say your "not allowed to leave it with anyone" but your responsible for safe keeping, what is slightly different.

You can deposit your passport at your bank if you wish, you can deposit it at your hotel if you're comfortably satisfied that it's safe. Would you rather have your passport safe at the hotel, leave in your room or take it with you to the beach for a swim?

If they don't want to hand it back to you, then contact immigration and they will get it back for you.

Although if you have outstanding hotel bills or rental bills, they will advice you to pay first your bill.

You are splitting hairs. Your passport should not be used as a bargaining tool to achieve something/anything. Keeping it safe in a safe is a totally different scenario.

PS. I still don't understand that some of you cannot understand that your passport doe's not belong to you.

Very much so. A passport is for a specific purpose and using it as some form of guarantee against motorbike hire is not it.

[JoeLing]

According to law, you would need an international driving licence. Not just for cars but the box for

motorbikes needs to be ticked as well. So I recon 98% of the bikes on the road here on the island

are driven illegally.

Then they are illegally renting a motorbike to an unlicensed rider with NO recourse.

Why in the world would you do that & try to cover yourself by keeping a passport as security? Because you probably know as the person renting it out, you can't really go to the police ( not that it helps ).

What are you going to tell them? You rented a bike knowing fully well that the person is unlicensed?

Wonder how can they claim insurance in case of an accident then, for damage & personal?

Well they probably are renting out illegally and people rent them illegally ;-)

If you look around the pier, there are loads of police stickers telling people not

to DEPOSIT your passport when renting motor bikes. So if someone asks to

deposit your passport, why argue with him if that's legal or not, just walk on

and find an other one, although you might have to walk a long way.

In the end effect it's down to you if you want to rent or not.

One reason I don't rent out motorbikes. Too much problems when things go wrong.

Not worth the effort and much better profits renting out kayaks to my guests.

Yes, I do make people aware of the facts but it's down to them to take advice or not.

I keep warning "kids" about the "most dangerous animal" on Koh Phangan the scooter.

(Wonder why there are so many private hospitals on this small island?)

My profit is not made by ripping people off but with advising my guests to the

best of my knowledge. Probably that's why I am one of the top recommended

places on Koh Phangan..

Have you ever looked at how many "illegally" rented out motorbikes are driven

by 'illegal" drivers, intoxicated by "illegal" substances to or from the parties?

No we do not promote that!

Now try to tell 20 year old kids not to take drugs or not to rent a bike on Koh Phangan :-)

Even legally, with my own bike, I do not want to be on the road during high

season or full moon party. I sure would love to see ALL laws being respected

AND enforced but well ..... the ideal world is on an other planet :-)

My advice, Take taxi. Even when ripped of, it's still cheaper then the hospital.

PS TRANSAM: Nothing wrong with ROO's posting. I believe plenty of people

mentioned already, Passports belong to our governments and can not be left

as Deposit for anything. Neither should you give your Passport to an agent for

Visa renewals etc.. In that way, Roo is absolute right to say "Don't leave your

passport with anyone". Leaving your passport deposited for safe keeping is not

"leaving it with anyone".

You might have missed when I said: If they don't give your passport back to you

just get the embassy involved? Maybe you missed my comment about NOT using

it as deposit but OK for safe keeping?

[JoeLing]

According to law, you would need an international driving licence. Not just for cars but the box for

motorbikes needs to be ticked as well. So I recon 98% of the bikes on the road here on the island

are driven illegally.

.........

Why in the world would you do that & try to cover yourself by keeping a passport as security? Because you probably know as the person renting it out, you can't really go to the police ( not that it helps ).

What are you going to tell them? You rented a bike knowing fully well that the person is unlicensed?

Wonder how can they claim insurance in case of an accident then, for damage & personal?

Sorry Roo, you might have missed the start of my posting:

"I usually keep passports of my guests in the safe and provide them with as many copies they want.

If they want to hire a bike from our recommended rental places, then all they have to do is fill out a rental agreement . . . "

There was no mention - I - rent out motorbikes or that - I - would keep the passports as deposit.

So sorry Roo, I can't answer your question: "Why in the world would I ........

But your question of "What are you going to tell them?"

I tell'em - Do NOT rent a motorbike on Koh Phangan, take a taxi. It's cheaper than hospitals" :-)

Ohh sorry, I mentioned that already. ;-)

Now I hope I don't have to start every posting with:

"This post is not intended to split hair or being insulting to anyone.

Just meant to be informative to the best of my knowledge."

[notmyself]

According to law, you would need an international driving licence. Not just for cars but the box for

motorbikes needs to be ticked as well. So I recon 98% of the bikes on the road here on the island

are driven illegally.

.........

Why in the world would you do that & try to cover yourself by keeping a passport as security? Because you probably know as the person renting it out, you can't really go to the police ( not that it helps ).

What are you going to tell them? You rented a bike knowing fully well that the person is unlicensed?

Wonder how can they claim insurance in case of an accident then, for damage & personal?

Sorry Roo, you might have missed the start of my posting:

"I usually keep passports of my guests in the safe and provide them with as many copies they want.

If they want to hire a bike from our recommended rental places, then all they have to do is fill out a rental agreement . . . "

There was no mention - I - rent out motorbikes or that - I - would keep the passports as deposit.

So sorry Roo, I can't answer your question: "Why in the world would I ........

But your question of "What are you going to tell them?"

I tell'em - Do NOT rent a motorbike on Koh Phangan, take a taxi. It's cheaper than hospitals" :-)

Ohh sorry, I mentioned that already. ;-)

Now I hope I don't have to start every posting with:

"This post is not intended to split hair or being insulting to anyone.

Just meant to be informative to the best of my knowledge."

I imagine member Rooo meant in a general sense and could have used 'why in the world would one' but that would be pedantic I think.

Edited November 13, 2013 by notmyself

[JoeLing]

NEVER let your passport out of your sight. ........

... especially when going through immigration.

Ripping out pages from your passport at immigration is a world wide documented scam and can cost you very dearly. So definitely, do NOT leave your passport out of sight at immigration when crossing borders.

[BigC]

According to law, you would need an international driving licence. Not just for cars but the box for

motorbikes needs to be ticked as well. So I recon 98% of the bikes on the road here on the island

are driven illegally.

Then they are illegally renting a motorbike to an unlicensed rider with NO recourse.

Why in the world would you do that & try to cover yourself by keeping a passport as security? Because you probably know as the person renting it out, you can't really go to the police ( not that it helps ).

What are you going to tell them? You rented a bike knowing fully well that the person is unlicensed?

Wonder how can they claim insurance in case of an accident then, for damage & personal?

It's business nice relaxed laws in a hypocritical society

To make motor bike renting licensed there would need to be motor bike rental inssurence on the market but their is not

There is demand for bikes for rent mainly due to taxis high prices which are never on the meter

Just the way it u

If try to change then shall go round in circles

A foreigner tragically lost his life 0700 hrs this morning 13th

He crashed into a car with a thai lady on the bike

The lady savived the crash the tourist did not

I do not have details as to the name and nationality

But I can obtain them

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Edited November 13, 2013 by Rooo
Fixed quotes.

[Rooo]

According to law, you would need an international driving licence. Not just for cars but the box for

motorbikes needs to be ticked as well. So I recon 98% of the bikes on the road here on the island

are driven illegally.

.........

Why in the world would you do that & try to cover yourself by keeping a passport as security? Because you probably know as the person renting it out, you can't really go to the police ( not that it helps ).

What are you going to tell them? You rented a bike knowing fully well that the person is unlicensed?

Wonder how can they claim insurance in case of an accident then, for damage & personal?

Sorry Roo, you might have missed the start of my posting:

"I usually keep passports of my guests in the safe and provide them with as many copies they want.

If they want to hire a bike from our recommended rental places, then all they have to do is fill out a rental agreement . . . "

There was no mention - I - rent out motorbikes or that - I - would keep the passports as deposit.

So sorry Roo, I can't answer your question: "Why in the world would I ........

But your question of "What are you going to tell them?"

I tell'em - Do NOT rent a motorbike on Koh Phangan, take a taxi. It's cheaper than hospitals" :-)

Ohh sorry, I mentioned that already. ;-)

Now I hope I don't have to start every posting with:

"This post is not intended to split hair or being insulting to anyone.

Just meant to be informative to the best of my knowledge."

Wasn't talking about you Joe, just the renters in general & quoted info from your post.

[robsamui]

NEVER let your passport out of your sight. It does not belong to you, it belongs to your government. If the shop has a break in and your passport is lost your in deep doo doo.

I suppose different countries treat their nationals differently, but as a US citizen, my passport is mine. I paid for it, so it is my property. I submitted my soon to expire passport with a renewal application and it was returned to me with my new one. If your passport is lost or stolen, you must pay for a new one at your embassy. You will not be permitted to enter your own country without a passport. You may be prohibited from using air, ground, or sea transportation out of this country without a passport. My passport is a document where my country vouches for my identity and nationality. It does not own it. It can compel me to surrender it pursuant to a court order, but not without due process of law.

Sent from my GT-P5113 using Tapatalk 4

Rubbish. Open it and see what it says on the first pages. Perhaps you USA guys have something different but where I come from I did read the pages in my Passport.

PS. We all pay for them.

I wonder if this is a common attitude that Americans have? This is the third person I've come across now who has thought this way.

Politics and nationalism aside, it's possibly because the USA isn't a passport-conscious nation. Whereas anyone from Europe most certainly has grown up with boundaries, borders, and changes (like the EU) constantly in the news, and has always needed a passport to travel just 50 or 60 miles or so!

Although I would like to offer a word of caution to BTtempleman - if ever you get pulled over by the Thai police, try to adjust the attitude displayed in your post above. The confident "I know what I'm talking about' approach doesn't go down well with the Thai authorities.

R

Edited November 14, 2013 by robsamui

[transam]

NEVER let your passport out of your sight. It does not belong to you, it belongs to your government. If the shop has a break in and your passport is lost your in deep doo doo.

I suppose different countries treat their nationals differently, but as a US citizen, my passport is mine. I paid for it, so it is my property. I submitted my soon to expire passport with a renewal application and it was returned to me with my new one. If your passport is lost or stolen, you must pay for a new one at your embassy. You will not be permitted to enter your own country without a passport. You may be prohibited from using air, ground, or sea transportation out of this country without a passport. My passport is a document where my country vouches for my identity and nationality. It does not own it. It can compel me to surrender it pursuant to a court order, but not without due process of law.

Sent from my GT-P5113 using Tapatalk 4

Rubbish. Open it and see what it says on the first pages. Perhaps you USA guys have something different but where I come from I did read the pages in my Passport.

PS. We all pay for them.

I wonder if this is a common attitude that Americans have? This is the third person I've come across now who has thought this way.

Politics and nationalism aside, it's possibly because the USA isn't a passport-conscious nation. Whereas anyone from Europe most certainly has grown up with boundaries, borders, and changes (like the EU) constantly in the news, and has always needed a passport to travel just 50 or 60 miles or so!

Although I would like to offer a word of caution to Transam - if ever you get pulled over by the Thai police, try to adjust the attitude displayed in your post above. The confident "I know what I'm talking about' approach doesn't go down well with the Thai authorities.

R

As I am a Tourist Police Volunteer up here in the boonies, and my Thai chum is a retired magistrate I think I am well aware of how to conduct my self in Thai matters. What I write here has nothing to do with that subject.

Edited November 14, 2013 by transam

[carmine]

The vast majority of tourists are pleasant honest people. Sadly there is a minority that are very much the opposite, look to the locals as they are idiots and think they can put one over on them. This minority is the main reason why the thais want a passport. Its to protect themselves from dishonest unscrupulous foreigners. So putting the rights and wrongs to one side for a moment perhaps people should consider the "whys."

[transam]

The vast majority of tourists are pleasant honest people. Sadly there is a minority that are very much the opposite, look to the locals as they are idiots and think they can put one over on them. This minority is the main reason why the thais want a passport. Its to protect themselves from dishonest unscrupulous foreigners. So putting the rights and wrongs to one side for a moment perhaps people should consider the "whys."

Or shouldn't the proprietors insure themselves to cover eventualities ? When I have rented a car in LOS they took a copy of passport and a returnable damage deposit via my CC. Thought that was how it was done the world over. Anyone who leaves their passport with a complete stranger is daft.

PS. Any rental company anywhere on the planet has no idea who they are renting too, whether they are an AH or not, and am sure many have problems to sort out. Part of that particular business I would have thought.

Edited November 14, 2013 by transam

[carmine]

The vast majority of tourists are pleasant honest people. Sadly there is a minority that are very much the opposite, look to the locals as they are idiots and think they can put one over on them. This minority is the main reason why the thais want a passport. Its to protect themselves from dishonest unscrupulous foreigners. So putting the rights and wrongs to one side for a moment perhaps people should consider the "whys."

Or shouldn't the proprietors insure themselves to cover eventualities ? When I have rented a car in LOS they took a copy of passport and a returnable damage deposit via my CC. Thought that was how it was done the world over. Anyone who leaves their passport with a complete stranger is daft.

This isn't the UK or the States. Their values are not Thailands and the two shouldn't be confused.

Rights or wrongs are largely irrelevant, you are here as a guest and if you don't like it don't rent it. Simple really.

Mindyou, i would never surrender my passport other than to the security of a hotel safe.

[samuijimmy]

We go through this same topic just about every year same answers and arguments for and against .... I think the question has been answered!

[transam]

The vast majority of tourists are pleasant honest people. Sadly there is a minority that are very much the opposite, look to the locals as they are idiots and think they can put one over on them. This minority is the main reason why the thais want a passport. Its to protect themselves from dishonest unscrupulous foreigners. So putting the rights and wrongs to one side for a moment perhaps people should consider the "whys."

Or shouldn't the proprietors insure themselves to cover eventualities ? When I have rented a car in LOS they took a copy of passport and a returnable damage deposit via my CC. Thought that was how it was done the world over. Anyone who leaves their passport with a complete stranger is daft.

This isn't the UK or the States. Their values are not Thailands and the two shouldn't be confused.

Rights or wrongs are largely irrelevant, you are here as a guest and if you don't like it don't rent it. Simple really.

Mindyou, i would never surrender my passport other than to the security of a hotel safe.

You forget the practice is illegal, nothing to do with what country we are in. You miss my point, the business should be insured for all losses and that cost would be passed on to the renter.

Glad to hear your not one of the daft ones.

[carmine]

The vast majority of tourists are pleasant honest people. Sadly there is a minority that are very much the opposite, look to the locals as they are idiots and think they can put one over on them. This minority is the main reason why the thais want a passport. Its to protect themselves from dishonest unscrupulous foreigners. So putting the rights and wrongs to one side for a moment perhaps people should consider the "whys."

Or shouldn't the proprietors insure themselves to cover eventualities ? When I have rented a car in LOS they took a copy of passport and a returnable damage deposit via my CC. Thought that was how it was done the world over. Anyone who leaves their passport with a complete stranger is daft.

This isn't the UK or the States. Their values are not Thailands and the two shouldn't be confused.

Rights or wrongs are largely irrelevant, you are here as a guest and if you don't like it don't rent it. Simple really.

Mindyou, i would never surrender my passport other than to the security of a hotel safe.

You forget the practice is illegal, nothing to do with what country we are in. You miss my point, the business should be insured for all losses and that cost would be passed on to the renter.

Glad to hear your not one of the daft ones.

There you go again bringing western values to Thailand. If all illegal" practice was stopped here the entire country would bring to a halt.

If you venture to another country and you are not happy with something don't do it, don't buy it and don't eat it.

Its also a legal obligation to wear a helmet here apparently Transam. Try telling that to locals and they will remind you that this is Samui.

[wayned]

On page 5, paragraph 3, of my US passport that was issued on 26 Sept 2012 it states:

"U.S. GOVERNMENT PROPERTY. This passport is the property of the United States (Title22, Code of Federal Regulations,Section 51/9). It must be surrendered upon demand made by and authorized representative of the United States Government."

Therefore, even though I paid for it, it is still the property of the U.S. Government. End of the debate about who it belongs to!

Edited November 14, 2013 by wayned

[transam]

Nothing to do with Western values or police not enforcing laws that are in place in Thailand regarding Crash helmets. The law is there, the same as Insurance polices are there if you pay for it. Perhaps it's the case that rental businesses do not want to pay for it, nothing to do with where this type of business is. Seems we must disagree on this one eh.

[Rooo]

We go through this same topic just about every year same answers and arguments for and against .... I think the question has been answered!

We also have new members all the time.

[Rooo]

Just diverting from the topic a bit.

I am an unlicensed bike rider.

I illegally hand my passport as deposit.

I have an accident, need hospitalization..

How do you claim on your travel insurance?After all you are NOT LEGALLY insured by the European insurance company

( unlicensed rider ) What do you tell them?

How do you prove to the hospital who you are?

Remember now you left your passport in the good care of the rental agency. Do you think they will let you have it back for the hospital?

This is a nightmare doing my head in.

[carmine]

Just diverting from the topic a bit.

I am an unlicensed bike rider.

I illegally hand my passport as deposit.

I have an accident, need hospitalization..

How do you claim on your travel insurance?After all you are NOT LEGALLY insured by the European insurance company

( unlicensed rider ) What do you tell them?

How do you prove to the hospital who you are?

Remember now you left your passport in the good care of the rental agency. Do you think they will let you have it back for the hospital?

This is a nightmare doing my head in.

farang tinking to mutt. Must to reelax....

[transam]

Just diverting from the topic a bit.

I am an unlicensed bike rider.

I illegally hand my passport as deposit.

I have an accident, need hospitalization..

How do you claim on your travel insurance?After all you are NOT LEGALLY insured by the European insurance company

( unlicensed rider ) What do you tell them?

How do you prove to the hospital who you are?

Remember now you left your passport in the good care of the rental agency. Do you think they will let you have it back for the hospital?

This is a nightmare doing my head in.

100% on topic....... ...................

[JoeLing]

....

Who gets in trouble the person for handing it over or the person receiving it

......

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Who get's in trouble the person who pays the bribe or the one who takes the bribe

Hmmm, most likely the one who pays

I don't think there is a law in Thailand that forbids you to hand over your passport as deposit

(as long it's not a Thai passport off course)

If you hand over your passport as a deposit anywhere in the world, you are in violation of the

laws of your own county, not here in Thailand.

Asking for your Passport as a deposit is NOT illegal but handing over your passport as a

deposit IS illegal. (Although nobody asked, I did deposit my passport once in the UK, as I

forgot my wallet and could not pay for the petrol ) ;-)

Not returning your passport IS not really illegal.

The police is not interested and if the embassy get's involved they might come and

"negotiate" the release of the passport.

BUT who would commit an offence, then go and call the embassy accusing some one else

of "foul play" then get in to trouble for having violated the law of his own country.

Now for me personally, I rather keep copies of the passports of my guests then their passports.

If they just run away to the embassy and report their passport stolen, they get a replacement

one and leave the country asap.

If I have copies of their passports, I report that to the police and immigration and when those

people want to leave the country - thinking they got away with it - will have some questions

to answer

[pokerspiv]

Just diverting from the topic a bit.

I am an unlicensed bike rider.

I illegally hand my passport as deposit.

I have an accident, need hospitalization..

How do you claim on your travel insurance?After all you are NOT LEGALLY insured by the European insurance company

( unlicensed rider ) What do you tell them?

How do you prove to the hospital who you are?

Remember now you left your passport in the good care of the rental agency. Do you think they will let you have it back for the hospital?

This is a nightmare doing my head in.

From what I hear you just tell the doctor that you won't be insured if they tell the insurance company it was a motorbike accident, and the hospital will concoct a story to suit Typically I would guess they'd say you were a pedestrian that was the victim of a hit and run.

They have a vested interest in making sure your insurance pays up. They can charge more, and are guaranteed to get paid.

Edited November 14, 2013 by pokerspiv

[arunsakda]

The vast majority of tourists are pleasant honest people. Sadly there is a minority that are very much the opposite, look to the locals as they are idiots and think they can put one over on them. This minority is the main reason why the thais want a passport. Its to protect themselves from dishonest unscrupulous foreigners. So putting the rights and wrongs to one side for a moment perhaps people should consider the "whys."

Or shouldn't the proprietors insure themselves to cover eventualities ? When I have rented a car in LOS they took a copy of passport and a returnable damage deposit via my CC. Thought that was how it was done the world over. Anyone who leaves their passport with a complete stranger is daft.

This isn't the UK or the States. Their values are not Thailands and the two shouldn't be confused.

Rights or wrongs are largely irrelevant, you are here as a guest and if you don't like it don't rent it. Simple really.

Mindyou, i would never surrender my passport other than to the security of a hotel safe.

You forget the practice is illegal, nothing to do with what country we are in. You miss my point, the business should be insured for all losses and that cost would be passed on to the renter.

Glad to hear your not one of the daft ones.

The whole practice is illegal. Tourists are required to present a valid ibternational drivers permit, and hold such license with motorcycle endorsement when operating a motorbike to legally operate in Thailand. How many renters require this? None, they just want your money, and want your passport in exchange for the bike you may damage, lose to theft, or piss off with.

I don't rent bikes anymore, but When I did I worried about leaving my passport as well.

For many tourists howewer your passport is much safer in the moto shops strongbox than in your back pocket or stuffed in your backpack at some grotty guesthouse.