Why is being married so important to arangs here?

[khunpa]

I have a Thai-girlfriend and we have lived together for the past 3 years now (Dated for nearly one year before that).

We are both in our 40s and there is a 2 year age difference between us. We both work in normal jobs and live like any other married couple would do. We have never really spoken of or considered marriage, but have just enjoyed living our life together. We have been married before, so each of us know that a marriage certificate will not make us any more happy, than we already are.

Because of my work, I do not have any visa problems, so that is also not a reason to get married. Its not that we are against marriage or do not want to get married, we just do not see it as something important. However, my girlfriend is now pregnant and at the time she got pregnant (7 months ago), we agreed that it might be a good time to get married (We guessed there would be some practical benefits). We just never came round to it and now it is just something, we are pushing in front of us. I think the "problem" is that none of us really care about being married or not. We live together and are both happy... and being married would not change that.

The only reason as we see it now to get married, should be for our child to have two passports. But that can be done later at anytime after the child is born and since we will not be traveling outside Thailand with the child for a long time, then thats also not an urgent reason.

Anyway, one thing I noticed is (especially since the pregnancy, but also before), is that other people here in Thailand find it strange, when we say that we are not married, have no exact plans of when or if to marry at all.

Where I come from, it is pretty normal to see couple living together and having kids together without being married. But its like here in Thailand (both amongst Farangs and Thais) it is different. I fully understand that many Thais will find it strange, but I do not understand why Farangs think different, when they are here in Thailand?

Like one guy wrote in another post here to me: "If you are not married, then you should just consider her to be your sex-partner". Why is there are different Farang-view on marriage, when it comes to Farang/Thai relationships? What is it actually that marriage does, that makes the Farang/Thai relationship any different, better or more justifiable?

Edited November 12, 2013 by khunpa

[TheAceFace]

You don't need to marry for your child to have 2 passports. Sounds like your both content the way it is. Stay that way.

[Thai at Heart]

It's not the farang that pushes for the marriage.

[MrWorldwide]

Dont live your life according to what people - Farang or Thai - tell you in Thailand. Unfortunately, I dont believe things are so clearcut for your Thai partner, and you might have to bite the bullet on this one. You need to be aware of the stigma around Thai women who make it to the ripe old age of 30 without a wedding ring.

[Schmackos]

You don't wish to marry her - Fine. Others wish to marry theirs - Fine also.

Everyone's relationships, family pressures etc are different.

What works for you may not work for others.

[FiftyTwo]

Without being married you have no parental rights over any children you produce in Thailand.

The Thai authorities do not even consider the child yours, you are not next of kin, they will say the child has no father.

I married my woman before we had children to avoid 'complications'.

[Opl]

Getting married here or there changes the money issues when you want to split.

[MrWorldwide]

It's not the farang that pushes for the marriage.

Easy to say when neither of us was born into the Thai culture, and 'living in sin' has really only been accepted in the West over the last 30 or so years - my mother wasn't the most popular woman in the little town she grew up in when she fell pregnant at 16 with my sister.

[i claudius]

Whatever floats your boat ,i know some guys who live with their "wives" and some who are married ,up to them,who cares?

[FritsSikkink]

You have to go to court to get parental rights if you are not married.

When you pass away and you have no will your wife and (future) child will not get anything.

[GarryP]

Without being married you have no parental rights over any children you produce in Thailand.

The Thai authorities do not even consider the child yours, you are not next of kin, they will say the child has no father.

I married my woman before we had children to avoid 'complications'.

You can have yourself recorded as the father on the birth certificate and record your parental rights at the district office upon birth. There is no need to go to court to do this.

Edited November 12, 2013 by GarryP

[FiftyTwo]

Without being married you have no parental rights over any children you produce in Thailand.

The Thai authorities do not even consider the child yours, you are not next of kin, they will say the child has no father.

I married my woman before we had children to avoid 'complications'.

Wrong. You can have yourself recorded as the father on the birth certificate and record your parental rights at the district office.

Not until the child is 7, and then only with the mothers consent.

(They can use anyone's name on the birth certificate, even the ladies father, how weird is that)

Edited November 12, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[MrWorldwide]

You have to go to court to get parental rights if you are not married.

When you pass away and you have no will your wife and (future) child will not get anything.

I wont normally play the bad cop on TV, but there is a very old saying around these parts - never make yourself worth more dead than alive. I dont believe that notion is restricted to Thailand.

[khunpa]

Dont live your life according to what people - Farang or Thai - tell you in Thailand. Unfortunately, I dont believe things are so clearcut for your Thai partner, and you might have to bite the bullet on this one. You need to be aware of the stigma around Thai women who make it to the ripe old age of 30 without a wedding ring.

I am aware about the stigma around Thai-women without a wedding ring. And I would actually have no problem at all in marrying my girlfriend, if that was an issue for her. I mean, I love the woman and want to stay with her for the rest of my life. She just never talks about marriage and when we finally do, then she says it is not important to her.

The thing is that my girl-friend is pretty strange on some issues. Like when we first started dating, she was pretty clear in what she wanted and what she did not want. The first thing she told me, was that she would NEVER and under no circumstances move to another country. She also has a son and it toke me nearly a year of dating her, before I was allowed to meet him and we finally moved in together. I tell you, dating her and was not an easy process. She had and have her own principles and stick by them. One of the reasons why I feel in love with her.

Both her parents are dead and we only see her other family members (brothers and sister) once or twice per year at the most. So its not like she does not have her own mindset and her "blood family" is of huge importance to her. I am mostly the one suggesting that we go visit e.g. her sister, who does not live far from us. If I do not do it, we most likely will never see the sister. When we then get there everything is fine and all are happy to see each other, but it will take at least six months before they will met again. To me this is very un-thai, but at least I do not have any family pressure having over me.

Edited November 12, 2013 by khunpa

[Thai at Heart]

It's not the farang that pushes for the marriage.

Easy to say when neither of us was born into the Thai culture, and 'living in sin' has really only been accepted in the West over the last 30 or so years - my mother wasn't the most popular woman in the little town she grew up in when she fell pregnant at 16 with my sister.

Well, living in sin is even less well thought of over here. I lived with my wife for 2 and bit years before putting a ring on her finger. Her mother was in bits the whole time trying to explain to her friends and family that her daughter was living "in sin" with a foreigner. In fact, while it's probably not the farang pushing for the marriage, it probably isn't the thai girlfriend as much as it is the "in-laws".

if it's for the kids, do it. Knowing that they can accompany you anywhere you want, anytime you want, is very reassuring and whilst your wife may need visas, at least you know your kids have access to another passport.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[cloy cogger]

Without being married you have no parental rights over any children you produce in Thailand.

The Thai authorities do not even consider the child yours, you are not next of kin, they will say the child has no father.

I married my woman before we had children to avoid 'complications'.

there are posts on here about moving children of unmarried thai fathers, abroad which contradict what you have posted.

[cornishcarlos]

Well just from my experience, as everyone's is different.

I lived with my GF for about 3 years before we got married. Her mother was under the impression that we lived separately, so she was happy.

Before the wedding, all physical contact, when around her family was frowned upon. The day after we were married however, it was "when are you having a baby" !!!

Now, because we don't want to have children, they seem to think there is something wrong and MIL is always stressing that I will leave her unless she has a kid ???

Strange folk

[chrisinth]

To me, marriage in Thailand meant going through the motions and getting the pieces of paper signed. We had no service, no reception, only three close friends knew we were doing it. Certainly had nothing to do with any religion, she is Buddhist, I don't believe.

That was 14 years ago.

Neither of us had any problems with just living together, but decided to go for it for the sake of the children and socially cementing our relationship. This is what it is about, society!

Also, being realistic about it, if one of us were to die, it is easier to circumnavigate the legal aspects of wills, pensions, etc.

That said, it is up to you; if you are happy with your circumstances, don't change them.

[swissie]

It's not the farang that pushes for the marriage.

So the "push" must come from the "lady". I wonder why that would be???

Cheers.

[JLCrab]

Whenever the topic comes up from a Thai person as to why the long-term GF and I don't get married, I just say: If the PM of Thailand hasn't bothered to get married, why should I?

[dao16]

My wife and I got married because of visa reasons. We had planned on it already, but we tied the knot about a year earlier so she could stay with me in other countries on spousal visas. Really made the whole traveling/living abroad process much, much easier.

After that, when we moved here, it became more of a social thing. As many guys know, people who don't know you assume you are with a prostitute on holiday--shuts them right up when you say "oh, you mean my wife of 10 years"? So, it is helpful that way. People here don't seem to mind unmarried people being together, but they definitely brighten up and look at you differently once they know you are married. I have seen, on multiple occasions, people's faces shift from doubting to positive as soon as I tell them. I don't think that is reason enough to get married if you don't want to, but it is a reality.

I am sure there are other paperwork situations that would be easier when married. Otherwise, you should do what you want and not feel pressured into it. It should be more of a cost-benefit analysis type thing.

[Berkshire]

Quote from the OP: "Where I come from, it is pretty normal to see couple living together and having kids together without being married."

May I ask where you're from? Because where I'm from (USA), that wouldn't be considered "normal." Mainstream society would consider raising a child in a married household "normal." Society may grudgingly accept unmarried parents (unlike back in the day), but most families (on both sides) would find it odd that you would raise a child together and not be married. There are all kinds of parental rights reserved for married couples, including tax, insurance, inheritance, and a host of other things. So your suggestion that Thailand is somehow different is rather inaccurate.

[khunpa]

Quote from the OP: "Where I come from, it is pretty normal to see couple living together and having kids together without being married."

May I ask where you're from? Because where I'm from (USA), that wouldn't be considered "normal." Mainstream society would consider raising a child in a married household "normal." Society may grudgingly accept unmarried parents (unlike back in the day), but most families (on both sides) would find it odd that you would raise a child together and not be married. There are all kinds of parental rights reserved for married couples, including tax, insurance, inheritance, and a host of other things. So your suggestion that Thailand is somehow different is rather inaccurate.

In Scandinavian countries, you will find many couples living together with kids - and are not married.

[Berkshire]

Quote from the OP: "Where I come from, it is pretty normal to see couple living together and having kids together without being married."

May I ask where you're from? Because where I'm from (USA), that wouldn't be considered "normal." Mainstream society would consider raising a child in a married household "normal." Society may grudgingly accept unmarried parents (unlike back in the day), but most families (on both sides) would find it odd that you would raise a child together and not be married. There are all kinds of parental rights reserved for married couples, including tax, insurance, inheritance, and a host of other things. So your suggestion that Thailand is somehow different is rather inaccurate.

In Scandinavian countries, you will find many couples living together with kids - and are not married.

Ok, I'll accept that. I also understand that Scandinavian countries are becoming rather progressive (for lack of a better word) when it comes to gender roles. But is that the norm, even in Scandinavian countries? Regardless, you must admit that in most other societies, marriage is still the norm, especially when it comes to raising a family.

[Thai at Heart]

It's not the farang that pushes for the marriage.

So the "push" must come from the "lady". I wonder why that would be???

Cheers.

Read my next comments. Often its the in laws needing to keep face

[dao16]

Quote from the OP: "Where I come from, it is pretty normal to see couple living together and having kids together without being married."

May I ask where you're from? Because where I'm from (USA), that wouldn't be considered "normal." Mainstream society would consider raising a child in a married household "normal." Society may grudgingly accept unmarried parents (unlike back in the day), but most families (on both sides) would find it odd that you would raise a child together and not be married. There are all kinds of parental rights reserved for married couples, including tax, insurance, inheritance, and a host of other things. So your suggestion that Thailand is somehow different is rather inaccurate.

In Scandinavian countries, you will find many couples living together with kids - and are not married.

Ok, I'll accept that. I also understand that Scandinavian countries are becoming rather progressive (for lack of a better word) when it comes to gender roles. But is that the norm, even in Scandinavian countries? Regardless, you must admit that in most other societies, marriage is still the norm, especially when it comes to raising a family.

Really? I think it is more common now in the US, even compared to 20 years ago. However, most people still get married because of the tax benefits and all that. Definitely more common in Europe, though.

[Berkshire]

Quote from the OP: "Where I come from, it is pretty normal to see couple living together and having kids together without being married."

May I ask where you're from? Because where I'm from (USA), that wouldn't be considered "normal." Mainstream society would consider raising a child in a married household "normal." Society may grudgingly accept unmarried parents (unlike back in the day), but most families (on both sides) would find it odd that you would raise a child together and not be married. There are all kinds of parental rights reserved for married couples, including tax, insurance, inheritance, and a host of other things. So your suggestion that Thailand is somehow different is rather inaccurate.

In Scandinavian countries, you will find many couples living together with kids - and are not married.

Ok, I'll accept that. I also understand that Scandinavian countries are becoming rather progressive (for lack of a better word) when it comes to gender roles. But is that the norm, even in Scandinavian countries? Regardless, you must admit that in most other societies, marriage is still the norm, especially when it comes to raising a family.

Really? I think it is more common now in the US, even compared to 20 years ago. However, most people still get married because of the tax benefits and all that. Definitely more common in Europe, though.

I wasn't suggesting that it doesn't happen, just whether it's "normal."

[MrWorldwide]

Tonight's Foreign Correspondent here in Oz is an expose on so-called 'honor' killings in Britain - whatever we think of the pressure bought by Thai families on their daughters to marry, its nothing compared to this madness. Young girls being taken back to a country they have no knowledge of to marry a man they have never met - we've all seen the docos, but it makes the whole 'face' thing look tame by comparison. If the Thai people behaved in the same fashion as some of their near neighbours, I wonder how many Thai-Farang marriages would ever happen ?

[crumpled]

Same in the UK. Living together is not a problem in the majority of cases.

If two people are happy with the way things are, then so be it.

My g/f's family understand we live and sleep together in the same house / condo and they have no problems with it. In fact they are very happy I'll be back next month and they know we will be sleeping at the same hotel together near the family home for the first few days.

Her mother tells her daughter she wants her to be happy. No pressure to have to get married. Obviously not all parents are the same.

[Khun Jean]

A good 'compromise' is doing a ceremonial wedding. Then for everybody invited and who knows you, you are married.

Your girlfriend will love it, even if she says she not really cares about it.

**

There is a difference when asking "What do you think, shall we get married?" or

dropping down on one knee and ask "Will you marry me?"

**

After that going to the Amphur to register your marriage is optional.

If it is beneficial for the both of you, why not. It is just a formality.

For the worried:

You do not need to be concerned if you have lots of money, because a prenuptial is 'baked' in. Check your western country for their specifics. If needed a pre-nuptial can be made.

Buy the rings and wear them.

For you personally it might be easier to comply with visa rules.

Traveling is more smooth, even getting a room in some hotels will be easier (Laos).

We married before our daughter was born. It definitely makes it much easier as many documents do not need extra supporting documents.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Khun Jean