Inheritance rights of Thai children?

[james68]

If I make a will in the UK leaving my estate to my Thai child..will that be sufficient for her to inherit or do I need to make a will with a Thai solicitor instead?

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[malcolminthemiddle]

Depends where your estate is. For assets in the UK you need a Will in the UK. For assets in Thailand you need a Will in Thailand.

Edited November 12, 2013 by malcolminthemiddle

[Hugh Jarse]

Depends where your estate is. For assets in the UK you need a Will in the UK. For assets in Thailand you need a Will in Thailand.

But be careful, and get good legal advice, as HMRC will demand IHT on your world wide assets.

[Arkady]

There are 4 possibilities for a Thai will for Thai assets.

1. Make an autograph will that doesn't need to be witnessed.

2. Make a typed will that needs two adult witnesses.

3. Have your will registered at your district office.

4. Do nothing and your child will inherit according to Thailand's laws of succession but may need to share with other family members.

If the child is Thai in Thailand and you have a separate Thai will, the Thai system will ignore any foreign legal obligations to undergo probate, e.g. in your home country. If you have both UK assets and Thai assets, do both Thai and UK wills. Putting Thai assets in your UK will will subject them to UK probate. Anyway a separate Thai will will be a neater way to settle the Thai estate. Of course I am not encouraging your executors to conceal global assets from UK probate in the likely event you are classified as UK domiciled, as most British citizens who have moved abroad, even for years, are. The only certainties are death and taxes and the former doesn't exempt you from the latter.

[MrMo]

While not directly addressing the subject of the Inheritance rights of Thai children which is primarily based around the right of minors to have assets, I have taken legal advice in England on the matter of UK and Thai assets and have experience of a Thai will passing through "probate" in Thailand.

First the legal advice which was based on a mixture of UK and Thai assets. The purpose of taking the advice was to ensure that my Thai family would not have to wait months before getting access to the Thai assets. If you have assets in Jersey for example they will take 6 months to pass through Jersey probate before the UK authorities can start work on them plus the GBP 13,000 estate of a UK based relative with only a couple of bank accounts and a few shares took 16 months to clear probate in England.

The advice given was to make out a UK Will covering global assets. And later to make out a second Will covering Thai assets. The important point is that the Thai Will is dated after the UK Will (one day is enough).. The Thai Will then removes the Thai assets from the control of the UK executors and places them under the control of the executors of the Thai Will. As far as I understand the situation, this does NOT take the Thai assets out of the scope of UK Inheritance Tax should the executors of the UK Will become aware of them..

On passing a will through "probate" in Thailand, I made out a Will in English for a friend here in Thailand. On his death it was translated in to Thai, taken to a magistrate who did whatever he needed to do and then the executors did there job (with quite a bit of help from the Thai wife of one of them). The whole process took very few days, 4 at max. There was no requirement to register the will previously though I can see that if such a registration process does exist it could help in some situations / districts.

I have attached a draft of the Will used for my friend. I'm not convinced the section relating to disposal of the body will work in all situations / districts. It hasn't yet been tested.

On the issue of a minors holding assets, it is my understanding that prior to 16 (?) years of age they may not solely own assets. For example, for a minor to have a bank account it has to be a joint account with an adult, who does not need to be Thai. An alternative is to set-up trusts but then you need to be sure that you trust the trustees. I would be pleased to see any advice / experience others have in this area.

[james68]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply.

Realistically I should consult a Thai solicitor. If I should pass away now, my child would be a minor so I must look into the practicalities of setting up a trust until the age of 21 for education and health and other necessities. I know a few Non Thais whom I trust totally but they, like myself, wouldn't be very knowledgeable on the legal nitty gritty..

I am considering moving all my assets to HSBC in Hong Kong and maybe consulting the bank there what would be the best option. Maybe setting up a trust in Hong Kong?

I am in good health and hope to live a long time yet, but I would like to plan ahead and have all the T's crossed and i's dotted. I had a bad experience back home when my own parents passed, who were separated but not legally divorced, and it was a total mess. I don't want anyone who comes after me to go through that minefield.

Thanks again

James

[Eneukman]

Depends where your estate is. For assets in the UK you need a Will in the UK. For assets in Thailand you need a Will in Thailand.

But be careful, and get good legal advice, as HMRC will demand IHT on your world wide assets.

Good legal advice is essential but whether or not HMRC demands IHT to be paid on someone's worldwide estate depends on a person's domicile at the time of their death. If someone has managed to acquire a domicile of choice outside the UK, only their estate in the UK will be liable to IHT. Domicile is a very complicated subject and advice should be sought from a lawyer in a larger firm of solicitors in the UK. Many solicitors working in smaller offices may never have dealt with someone who lived abroad and may lack the appropriate experience.

It should also be noted that changes to your UK Will could affect your Thai Will and vice versa so ensure that any changes made refer ONLY to your assets in / outside Thailand as appropriate. Many years ago, I had to deal with a case where a foreign Will totally revoked an earlier UK one. Fortunately, a Codicil to the UK Will was signed after the foreign one which after a great deal of effort was used to show that the revocation of the UK Will had been made in error.

Separate Wills are not essential but are preferred and should make the administration of the estate in Thailand simpler.

Alan

Edited November 13, 2013 by Eneukman

[belg]

i guess if your child is not 18 and you cannot trust the mother, than the mother will get all and probably spend most of it by the time your child is 18, but on herself, not the child

[Hugh Jarse]

i guess if your child is not 18 and you cannot trust the mother, than the mother will get all and probably spend most of it by the time your child is 18, but on herself, not the child

How very cynical!

[wileycoyote]

There are 4 possibilities for a Thai will for Thai assets.

1. Make an autograph will that doesn't need to be witnessed.

2. Make a typed will that needs two adult witnesses.

3. Have your will registered at your district office.

4. Do nothing and your child will inherit according to Thailand's laws of succession but may need to share with other family members.

If the child is Thai in Thailand and you have a separate Thai will, the Thai system will ignore any foreign legal obligations to undergo probate, e.g. in your home country. If you have both UK assets and Thai assets, do both Thai and UK wills. Putting Thai assets in your UK will will subject them to UK probate. Anyway a separate Thai will will be a neater way to settle the Thai estate. Of course I am not encouraging your executors to conceal global assets from UK probate in the likely event you are classified as UK domiciled, as most British citizens who have moved abroad, even for years, are. The only certainties are death and taxes and the former doesn't exempt you from the latter.

Thank You ,Good Posting

[Ulic]

By all means write your will with the proper legal advice but also prepare your documents for a quick transfer to your

child's name in the event your health starts to fail in the future. I would rather transfer the bulk of my assets while

I was alive and not leave it to probate lawyers/ government officials etc...

[rgs2001uk]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply.

Realistically I should consult a Thai solicitor. If I should pass away now, my child would be a minor so I must look into the practicalities of setting up a trust until the age of 21 for education and health and other necessities. I know a few Non Thais whom I trust totally but they, like myself, wouldn't be very knowledgeable on the legal nitty gritty..

I am considering moving all my assets to HSBC in Hong Kong and maybe consulting the bank there what would be the best option. Maybe setting up a trust in Hong Kong?

I am in good health and hope to live a long time yet, but I would like to plan ahead and have all the T's crossed and i's dotted. I had a bad experience back home when my own parents passed, who were separated but not legally divorced, and it was a total mess. I don't want anyone who comes after me to go through that minefield.

Thanks again

James

I must look into the practicalities of setting up a trust until the age of 21 for education and health and other necessities.

There is no such thing in Thailand.

[prakhonchai nick]

i guess if your child is not 18 and you cannot trust the mother, than the mother will get all and probably spend most of it by the time your child is 18, but on herself, not the child

How very cynical!

Cynical yes - but so true in very many cases!

[hhfarang]

My wife and I both have wills here and in the U.S. drawn up by lawyers. As previously stated a Thai will is not valid outside Thailand and a foreign will is not valid inside Thailand.

[Eneukman]

My wife and I both have wills here and in the U.S. drawn up by lawyers. As previously stated a Thai will is not valid outside Thailand and a foreign will is not valid inside Thailand.

I can't comment about the US but if a Thai Will is signed in Thailand in accordance with Thai law, it will be accepted as being valid by the courts in the UK. I have dealt with assets in the UK where the sole Will was signed in Australia, USA, German, and Kenya. I have also dealt with a Sri Lankan intestacy and a case where there was both a Scottish Will and a South African Will. There was also a Scottish Will signed in England for someone who was domiciled in the former Czechoslovakia. That particular Will wasn't valid in Czechoslovakia but it was accepted as being valid because it was valid under English law (the law of the country in which it was signed).

Incidentally, if you have estate in both the Uk and Thailand, the courts in the UK will want to see originals of both your UK and Thai Wills. This is to ensure that your Thai Will doesn't revoke the UK Will if it was signed earlier and that a later UK Will doesn't revoke your Thai Will. Further if you are domiciled in Thailand, your UK Will should be valid under Thai law though it will be sufficient if it is valid in the country in which it was signed.

Alan

Edited November 14, 2013 by Eneukman

[malcolminthemiddle]

The advice given was to make out a UK Will covering global assets. And later to make out a second Will covering Thai assets. The important point is that the Thai Will is dated after the UK Will (one day is enough).. The Thai Will then removes the Thai assets from the control of the UK executors and places them under the control of the executors of the Thai Will.

Why then have a UK Will covering Thai assets in the first place?

Edited November 17, 2013 by malcolminthemiddle

[james68]

Thanks everyone for your help. For the meantime I will keep my powder dry and give the issue more thought...

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[Mario2008]

The advice given was to make out a UK Will covering global assets. And later to make out a second Will covering Thai assets. The important point is that the Thai Will is dated after the UK Will (one day is enough).. The Thai Will then removes the Thai assets from the control of the UK executors and places them under the control of the executors of the Thai Will.

Why then have a UK Will covering Thai assets in the first place?

That will probably have to do with the fact that a new will replaces the old will. So any diffrences between UK and Thai law are covered by the fact that the Thai will is the newest and would have priority over the UK will where the two will overlap.

[Eneukman]

The advice given was to make out a UK Will covering global assets. And later to make out a second Will covering Thai assets. The important point is that the Thai Will is dated after the UK Will (one day is enough).. The Thai Will then removes the Thai assets from the control of the UK executors and places them under the control of the executors of the Thai Will.

Why then have a UK Will covering Thai assets in the first place?

In case anything happens to you before you are able to sign your Thai Will.

If doing a later foreign Will (or subsequently updating your home country Will), I cannot stress enough the need to ensure that neither Will inadvertently revokes the other entirely. That will cause your executors major problems!

Alan

[MrMo]

The purpose of having the Thai will is to enable your Thai family to have access to your Thai assets quickly and easily following your death. Having a Thai Will that specifies it only covers your Thai assets will enable your family to have access to them in 3 or 4 days.

If you have only a UK Will that covers world-wide assets the Thai assets should be tied-up under UK probate while the UK Will is cleared through the various UK authorities including the Inheritance tax people. Just 5 years ago I was the major beneficiary in the Will of a 90 year old devote Christian lady who was born in England and lived there all her life. She didn't own any property, just cash and a few UK shares. It took 15 months to get her GBP15,000 estate cleared for pay-out.

That's why you have a separate Thai Will.

i would advise that the executors of the Thai Will are Thailand based and that those of the UK Will are UK based.