Virtues of high-speed rail system to Hua Hin

[lungmi]

High speed trains in Thailand?

To make pigs fly is more rationable.

[FarangKenStine]

A friend in the travel business told me that the big push next year is to get the hordes of Russians to Hua Hin. He said that Phuket is overloaded and the Russians are liking Hua Hin.

I guess the Ruskies have to pick their Battles

[peterbkk9]

I don't think Thais would use the high speed train anyway.

They prefer to use their cars.

The train would bring them to Hua Hin train station, and what happens next? how do they travel around in Hua Hin?

They would have to rely on Tuk Tuks or song theo, or motasai... I don't see this happening

Edited November 14, 2013 by peterbkk9

[Bagwan]

A friend in the travel business told me that the big push next year is to get the hordes of Russians to Hua Hin. He said that Phuket is overloaded and the Russians are liking Hua Hin.

I'm sure that they'll raise the tone of the place. NOT.

[MaxYakov]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

Last I looked, km was for indicating distance, not speed (reference to 225 km in article). In any event, Bangkok - Hua Hin is only about 144 km. Is that doable in 1 hour with three (quick?) stops?

Figuring 3, 5-minute stops plus 1-hour travel time with a conservative 160 km distance yields:

160 km / 75 min = 2.21 km/min = 128 km/hr (average speed)*

* = Note: Does not include time to re-rail the train after a derailment.

Ref your figure of 128km/hr--------- to get that you will have to have a top speed of maybe at least 200km/hr to get an average of 128km/hr

And some pretty impressive acceleration as well. Good point and not too unbelievable if one believes this California HS Rail Travel Times chart:

[hellodolly]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

Last I looked, km was for indicating distance, not speed.

And I quote:

"One of the gateways to the South is the Bangkok - Hua Hin line that will only take 1 hour.

One of the high-speed rail lines planned to be constructed is the Bangkok - Hua Hin line, which totals 225 km. and consists of 4 stops: Nakhon Pathom, Phetchaburi, Ratchaburi, and Hua Hin."

Seems llke 225 km in 1 hour to me!

Afraid you have it wrong if it is 225 kilometers away and they are going to make the trip in 1 hour it would have to go faster to make up for the start up and slow down speed.

Plus

They are going to make 3 other stops. Sounds to me like they will spend one hour getting up to speed and slowing down to a stop and spending time at each stop to load and unload passengers and freight at the three other locations.

The one hour 225 kph with three stops is typical present day government thinking. Problem is they will get a lot of people to believe them. Thereby enriching there personal wealth.

[biplanebluey]

You guys are idiots. This line will make it possible to commute to central BKK from Phetchaburi and Ratchaburi within an hour. If you've ever been to Korea, Japan or even China, you'd know how beneficial such a toy can be.

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A Toy????? very apt----- even kids can break "toys"

[hellodolly]

I don't mean to hate on Thailand and I don't want to be accused of Thai bashing but it strikes me that there are two things that Thailand should NEVER get involved with:

1. Nuclear power.

2. High speed rail.

You forgot ...

3. Politics

4. Tourism

5. Education

6. Human Rights

Your reasons for Thailand not getting involved in

Education,

Tourism and

Human Rights

are

Are you against all three of these things in Thailand or do you have a workable plan to put and end to them.

I will concede that you have a plan involving every one else except you.

[hellodolly]

You guys are idiots. This line will make it possible to commute to central BKK from Phetchaburi and Ratchaburi within an hour. If you've ever been to Korea, Japan or even China, you'd know how beneficial such a toy can be.

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Never been to any of them. Are you trying to say all they have is 225 kilometers of high speed train and the rest of their country is sub par standard rail?

[MaxYakov]

I don't think Thais would use the high speed train anyway.

They prefer to use their cars.

The train would bring them to Hua Hin train station, and what happens next? how do they travel around in Hua Hin?

They would have to rely on Tuk Tuks or song theo, or motasai... I don't see this happening

I've taken the train twice* from Bangkok to Hua Hin and both times it was fairly full. I'd bet that not any of the Thai passengers owned a car. Otherwise, why would they take a slow, uncomfortable train w/o even A/C?

And aren't you forgetting about the tourists and expats that don't own cars and don't want to risk a bus or van? Hua Hin visitors would rely on whatever transportation is available, maybe even walk (of all things!). I took my folding bicycle on the train both times and even sat on its seat when it became crowded. I knew in advance what my local Hua Hin transport was going to be.

Rail service to Hua Hin could and should be improved (civilized) but I'm not so sure HS rail is the way to go.

* = Slow learner or I forgot how bad it was the first time.

Edited November 14, 2013 by MaxYakov

[hellodolly]

I hope to God they do not try and plan it, build it, or construct any thing to do with it without the foreigners expertise. And not China, get the Japs, the Yanks or France who are experienced in this.

But I doubt it the high ups will insist they can do it all. Can you imagine the type of drivers, no licenses, late teens early twentys and a bottle Thai Whisky in the cabin. Be like the taxi bus drivers and never stop on Red lights. I will drive my car down there thanks.

One would think it would be totally automated like the Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART - 1970s technology). Given that, full-automation can have some downsides such as this recent, fatal BART accident. I would probably recommend the Japanese. The Yanks are too busy developing a high-speed rail boondoggle of their own in California.

I agree

I hope to God they do not try and plan it, build it, or construct any thing to do with it without the foreigners expertise. And not China, get the Japs, the Yanks or France who are experienced in this.

But I doubt it the high ups will insist they can do it all. Can you imagine the type of drivers, no licenses, late teens early twentys and a bottle Thai Whisky in the cabin. Be like the taxi bus drivers and never stop on Red lights. I will drive my car down there thanks.

France has already told them they want no part of it. They gave a price that was a lot higher Than China's and they did not give them a deal on next door to worthless pads. Japan's price was way higher than China's.

One must remember that quality is not a requirement in any thing this government does.

lets put a side the whole competence angle for a second.

who is going to take this train? the price of construction is going to push the price of a ticket beyond what most average people would pay. i also think the typical hi-so are going to want to take their cars so they can drive around once they get to HH. it will be something to say "i took the high speed train" for the first year or so, then people are going to get economical and the this will be as much of a waste as buying three submarines.

Stop being so sensible and logical alt=tongue.png width=20 height=20>

The real hi so's will have a car at both ends.

[hellodolly]

Last I looked, km was for indicating distance, not speed.

And I quote:

"One of the gateways to the South is the Bangkok - Hua Hin line that will only take 1 hour.

One of the high-speed rail lines planned to be constructed is the Bangkok - Hua Hin line, which totals 225 km. and consists of 4 stops: Nakhon Pathom, Phetchaburi, Ratchaburi, and Hua Hin."

Seems llke 225 km in 1 hour to me!

Since Bangkok-Hua Hin is around 144 km (probably as the crow flies), maybe they plan to put in some extra loops and zooms, roller coaster style, to make the ride more exciting. The revenue potential would be fantastic. Maybe they can throw in a a simulated derailment for an added thrill.

If they are going to make it like a roller coaster where can I get a ticket and how much?

[hellodolly]

This is the first section of the planned China to Singapore HSR line. The overall project will be financed and "guided" by Chinese investment, either overtly or otherwise.

It has nothing to do with the proposed Chinese plan. It might be worked in to it if Thailand ever agrees to it. So far they are asking for the funding in a proposed 2.2 trillion baht loan that will take 50 years to bay back.

It is my belief with no facts to back it up that it will not take more than two years for the government to get there share diverted into their personal accounts.

[Loles]

very nice dream.

anyway this would bi fine for the next panama here.

I hope Yingluck doesn't dream about to cut the silk-tape in big opening party as PM.

Probably she will be the fugitive former PM who involved in high speed railways from BKK to HH ......

[MickGC]

I'm all for it. Will be completely new rail infrastructure based on the latest high speed rail designs built, designed and supervised by multinational civil engineering firms. All you TV engineering experts are shooting the project down in flames before it even gets off the ground. When funds are available and projects get the go-ahead, construction is very swift indeed here. Roads/Highways are a perfect example. Anyone who was driving around here 25 years ago will know exactly what I mean. A little less negativity towards everything Thai on this forum would be most welcome. Gets very depressing sometimes.

[MK1]

The project will possible never see the light of day because it seems like a political tool to win the hearts and minds of the people, in light of the governments failure in delivery the Amnesty Bill so far and also having the risk of losing the next election. They would be better off fixing broken promises first by up-grading the long awaited local airport, rather than putting the cart before the horse.

[Thomas33399]

Ridiculous speed claim - 225 km in an hour with 3 stops before Hua Hin.

Totally impossible!

Last I looked, km was for indicating distance, not speed (reference to 225 km in article). In any event, Bangkok - Hua Hin is only about 144 km. Is that doable in 1 hour with three (quick?) stops?

Figuring 3, 5-minute stops plus 1-hour travel time with a conservative 160 km distance yields:

160 km / 75 min = 2.21 km/min = 128 km/hr (average speed)*

* = Note: Does not include time to re-rail the train after a derailment.

ummmmmm

this argument is dreailed

[DrTuner]

When you think of it, it is scary. If a macho driver in Spain will drive a train with a speed way above the limit the track can take and cause an accident making the carts look like Lego blocks, what can a somchai high on yaba with a face to lose do ?

[soi41]

When you think of it, it is scary. If a macho driver in Spain will drive a train with a speed way above the limit the track can take and cause an accident making the carts look like Lego blocks, what can a somchai high on yaba with a face to lose do ?

Flee the scene!!

[jpduggan]

If they can't keep low speed trains on the tracks what hope have the high speed ones?

[fareastguy]

We've all seen what happens to the "coyote" when you strap a rocket on it's back!!

Why a high speed train for just 225 kilometres, just a service a bit faster than the "cattle truck chug machine" that they use now would be more appropriate!

Surely a high speed link for the greater distances from north/south or even cross border links would make the best sense.

[StreetCowboy]

We've all seen what happens to the "coyote" when you strap a rocket on it's back!!

Why a high speed train for just 225 kilometres, just a service a bit faster than the "cattle truck chug machine" that they use now would be more appropriate!

Surely a high speed link for the greater distances from north/south or even cross border links would make the best sense.

High speed rail makes most sense for linking major conurbations 250 - 800 km apart. Further, and aeroplanes are still significantly faster, shorter, and the time savings are not sufficient. People might argue whether it is 250 or 150, 800 or 600, but it's about that range. It depends also on the location of the stations, the efficiency of ticket sales and boarding, the metropolitan public transport network in the cities served...

SC

EDIT; I think the last time HSR in Thailand was talked about, it was as an upgrade to the Airport Rail Link, to link in Pattaya and Rayong. That makes a lot more sense - high-value business and leisure streams, making use of existing infrastructure. And it's a small enough project that it might actually get funded.

Edited November 15, 2013 by StreetCowboy

[Morakot]

Is that doable in 1 hour with three (quick?) stops?

Figuring 3, 5-minute stops

Five minute stops, I presume you mean a Japanese-style swift and orderly disembarkation followed by a swift and orderly embarkation.

How many food sellers, including their items for sale, will get on and off in five minutes, never mind a crowd of holidaymakers?

Edited November 15, 2013 by Morakot

[Sealbash]

The overhead rail and the subway in Bangkok were pipe dreams that would injure thousands, never work, and no one would use them. Seems to have turned out okay. Just to clear up any confusion, we get to bash Thailand for not having all modern amenities, but we are also expected to bash Thailand if they plan to improve?

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[pinkpanther99]

You guys are idiots. This line will make it possible to commute to central BKK from Phetchaburi and Ratchaburi within an hour. If you've ever been to Korea, Japan or even China, you'd know how beneficial such a toy can be.

Sent from my C6602 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I don't think people are doubting the benefits of implementing high speed rail in Thailand. And as you say, Hua Hin to Bangkok in an hour would be great. I think people are more concerned about the safety aspect and whether or not it will be properly maintained. Of course nobody knows for sure but all we can do is look at Thailand's existing rail network where we see stories, almost weekly, of train derailments and other problems.

Hope high speed rail in Thailand will be different as, like you say, there are many benefits to be had.

[MaxYakov]

Is that doable in 1 hour with three (quick?) stops?

Figuring 3, 5-minute stops

Five minute stops, I presume you mean a Japanese-style swift and orderly disembarkation followed by a swift and orderly embarkation.

How many food sellers, including their items for sale, will get on and off in five minutes, never mind a crowd of holidaymakers?

I'd say about 0 +/-0.

[monkey4u]

Before building any high speed train, PLEASE educate people how to drive and what to do at level crossings.

Keep the cows at home or there will be very cheap mince available

This wonderful idea of a fast train WILL kill more people in 1 week than and terrorists in the south can do in a year

[Crossy]

Before building any high speed train, PLEASE educate people how to drive and what to do at level crossings.

Keep the cows at home or there will be very cheap mince available

This wonderful idea of a fast train WILL kill more people in 1 week than and terrorists in the south can do in a year

One can only hope that the HSR will be grade-separated (no level crossings).

This issue I have is that unless the whole lot is elevated (expensive) there are going to be track incursions, not only by people (who can be educated) but by animals (who cannot). The result of a train hitting an elephant at 250kph doesn't bear thinking about.

[MaxYakov]

You guys are idiots. This line will make it possible to commute to central BKK from Phetchaburi and Ratchaburi within an hour. If you've ever been to Korea, Japan or even China, you'd know how beneficial such a toy can be.

Sent from my C6602 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I don't think people are doubting the benefits of implementing high speed rail in Thailand. And as you say, Hua Hin to Bangkok in an hour would be great. I think people are more concerned about the safety aspect and whether or not it will be properly maintained. Of course nobody knows for sure but all we can do is look at Thailand's existing rail network where we see stories, almost weekly, of train derailments and other problems.

Hope high speed rail in Thailand will be different as, like you say, there are many benefits to be had.

Sorry, hope won't cut it. If it's not fail-safe, full-automated, speed-controlled, not subject to right-of-way incursion and scrupulously-maintained (for starters), the crucial difference will likely only be higher derailment speeds and catastrophic losses.

For some reason the Thai people seem to be OK with high transportation-related casualties, so who knows?

Edited November 15, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Morakot]

One can only hope that the HSR will be grade-separated (no level crossings).

This issue I have is that unless the whole lot is elevated (expensive) there are going to be track incursions, not only by people (who can be educated) but by animals (who cannot). The result of a train hitting an elephant at 250kph doesn't bear thinking about.

Valid point!

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/cow-derails-train-in-australian-outback/article35719.ece