President Obama announces health law fix

[Publicus]

Mr. Publicus:

This is in response to your post of 23 December 2013 at 04:13 AM.

I find myself in a real conundrum. I cannot quote your post in this missive as it would exceed the maximum number of quotes allowed by forum software. I cannot change your post by deleting a small portion of it since that would be a violation of forum rules and you would report me for the infraction. All of my work would be for naught.

I will just have to forge ahead without being able to use your post.

1. You claim, relating to my comment about Obamacare causing the latest individual mandate delay because of a declared disaster:

"That is intentional and purposefully devious and deceptive writing intended to obfuscate. "...or at the very least" my arse."

The delay was issued for those 5 million former policy holders that lost coverage and have either been unable to get on the web site or cannot afford the new Obamacare premiums. Since losing coverage was a result of Obamacare and the web site serves a direct function for Obamacare (when it works) it would seem that Obamacare, alone, is the reason for this further delay in the individual mandate. I must have missed Mother Nature's fury in the past week that might have otherwise been reason enough to cause a delay.

One interesting sidenote of the latest Executive change to the law is that individuals who did not have a policy that was cancelled, are not eligible for the latest delay and are, seemingly, not eligible to purchase catastrophic coverage. They must proceed with all flank speed to sign up for Obamacare and pay those premiums.

Following is a NOT Breitbart article that clearly sets out why the delay was issued and it had nothing to do with Republicans.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why the Latest Obamacare Delay Is the Biggest One Yet

This time it's about fairness

By Kate Pickert @katepickertDec. 20, 2013

When fairness goes out the window, you know politics has caused the White House to take its Obamacare scramble to a whole new level.The administration said Thursday night that people with canceled policies will not be subject to the individual mandate in 2014. This is huge, but you wouldn’t know it from Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius’ letter announcing the change, which she sent in response to senators worried that those who saw their health insurance policies canceled this fall did not “consider” Obamacare replacement policies to be affordable.

Read more: Obamacare: Mandate Delay Is The Biggest Change Yet | TIME.com http://swampland.time.com/2013/12/20/obamacare-mandate-delay/#ixzz2oGugVzPm

2. You said:

" Everyone - everyone - has known since the day the HealthCare.gov website opened October 1st and crashed hours afterward that enrollment would not be the originally targeted 7 million by the expiration of the enrollment period on March 31st next."

As late as November 3, a White House spokesman was still saying the 7 million was attainable but I have heard none of the spin doctors making the claim recently. I would like to point out that not everyone knew the target was 7 million. Some thought it was only 5 million.

3. You said...

"And Medicaid is expanded by ObamaCare, not Medicare as you state in my above quote of you."

Well, you got me. I did say Medicare when it was clearly Medicaid. Medicaid is the free stuff the federal government and states have been handing out.

The only way Medicare is impacted is the billions that are being removed from the program in the future to help pay for Obamacare. But that's an entirely different can of worms not yet addressed.

Please permit me to humbly apologize for typing "Medicare" instead of "Medicaid" on my previous post and perhaps causing confusion and consternation among the populace.

4. You said...

"Looking at another of your devious claims, you continue in this vein of distorted and intentionally dishonest disinformation:"

This was in relation to the statement in my quoted post that, "A total of 364,682 people were enrolled in private Obamacare insurance plans nationwide by the end of November, according to federal figures released Wednesday."

If you find this claim devious, as you say, then I suggest you contact CNBC and complain since the comment is a direct quote from the linked article...not a devious claim by me.

5. You further make this claim:

"And since then, the recent weeks of December show that during the lead up to the Dec 23rd sign up deadline for your ObamaCare coverage to begin January 1st, there is a rush of people nationwide filing application forms."

Since the Obama administration considers the numbers of enrollees a State Secret please provide some data to explain this astounding claim. It would seem this rush to sign up has been well hidden from both Obama and Sebelius as well as the American people, or there would have been no need for the delay of last week. You think?

I won't address your personal attack, although the masturbation suggestion did get me rather excited. Not worth any more time.

Thank you.

PS: In some minds, the death panel is alive and well. This from Mark Halperin on November 26, 2013:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In an interview on Monday with the conservative Newsmax, Time's Mark Halperin said that so-called "death panels" are enshrined in the Affordable Care Act.

"It's going to be a huge issue," Halperin said. "And that's something else about which the President was not fully forthcoming or straight-forward."

"So, you believe there will be rationing, a.k.a 'death panels'?" host Steve Malzberg asked Halperin, the co-author of the 2012 election chronicle "Double Down."

"It's built into the plan. It's not like a guess or like a judgment. That's going to be part of how costs are controlled," Halperin said before arguing that it's necessary to ration care."

The interview is here: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mark-halperin-death-panels-are-built-into-obamacare-video

Thank you for sharing your views with me.

At least I got you to suspend quoting the right wing Breitbart News people.

Sincerely,

Publicus.

[Scott]

It is within the forum rules to quote another member and to snip the post so that you are quoting the portion that is relevant to your quote. In doing so, please make sure that you do not change the meaning of the quote. Deleting irrelevant material is not the same as altering a quote.

[Publicus]

chuckd wrote:

In an interview on Monday with the conservative Newsmax, Time's Mark Halperin said that so-called "death panels" are enshrined in the Affordable Care Act.

"It's going to be a huge issue," Halperin said. "And that's something else about which the President was not fully forthcoming or straight-forward."

"So, you believe there will be rationing, a.k.a 'death panels'?" host Steve Malzberg asked Halperin, the co-author of the 2012 election chronicle "Double Down."

"It's built into the plan. It's not like a guess or like a judgment. That's going to be part of how costs are controlled," Halperin said before arguing that it's necessary to ration care."

The interview is here: http://talkingpoints...obamacare-video

Well, here we have another right wing media organ, Newsmax, being quoted by the poster who can't resist the siren sound of the right wing media, mainstream or mostly otherwise.

So, as always, I point out the facts and the truth - reality - here, below, as follows:

Mark Halperin ✔ @MarkHalperin Follow

In Mon intv I did not say "death panels" nor do I believe ACA contains them. Was speaking of political/policy challenge of IPAB cuts. My bad

2:37 AM - 27 Nov 2013

23 Retweets 2 favorites

Mark Halperin: I Don't Believe Obamacare Contains 'Death Panels'

Mark Halperin on Tuesday sought to clarify his comments about "death panels" in the Affordable Care Act.

In a pair of tweets, Halperin said he does not believe the health care law contains "death panels," but said the Independent Payment Advisory Board faces political challenges ahead. He quoted former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (D), who called the board "essentially a health-care rationing body."

But the Affordable Care Act explicitly bars the IPAB from rationing care.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mark-halperin-i-don-t-believe-obamacare-contains-death-panels

Forbes

Why It Is So Difficult to Kill the Death Panel Myth

In August of 2009, Sarah Palin claimed that the health legislation being crafted by Democrats at the time would create a “death panel,” in which government bureaucrats would decide whether disabled and elderly patients are “worthy of healthcare.”

Despite being debunked by fact-checkers and mainstream media outlets, this myth has persisted, with almost half of Americans stating recently that they believe the Affordable Care Act (ACA) creates such a panel.

Why is the death panel myth so hard to shake and why is its persistence relevant to the unfolding of Obamacare?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterubel/2013/01/09/why-it-is-so-difficult-to-kill-the-death-panel-myth/

@chuckd

I can't say you're stalking me because I do occasionally respond.

Given however that I'm out of patience with the malicious mangling of truth and facts by the right wing, I won't be responding much more or much longer.

Then what?

:

[thaibeachlovers]

Because 28 states with Republican Party controlled governments have not established an ObamaCare medical insurance exchange, any qualified citizen of those states will be ineligible for subsidies to help pay the cost of signing up.

Only citizens whose state government has established a medical exchange are eligible for federal subsidies to the ObamaCare program.

So by consciously refusing to establish an ObamaCare medical insurance exchange, the 28 Republican Party controlled states are denying qualified citizens in each of the 28 states access to needed subsidies.

Denial of needed subsidies to citizens of each of these states is in effect denial of access to ObamaCare for many citizens of each Republican Party controlled state. This is yet another devious and malevolent way Republican Party governors and/or state legislatures are trying to sabotage ObamaCare for Americans who need it or that choose to try to obtain it.

The 28 Republican Party controlled states that have decided to deny all of their eligible and qualified citizens access to ObamaCare subsidies are thereby engaged in organized, deliberate and malicious, premeditated, partisan political attempts to sabotage.the ACA law before it can be successfully implemented.

The ACA law does not fully implement ObamaCare until 2018 so there is ample time to deal with the challenges the new law provides in this complex matter of the greatest importance to the people of the United States and which involves almost a fifth of the US's GDP.

So the new ACA law and its programs will come into effect despite the willful and obstructionist partisan schemes of the Republican Party in Washington and in the state capitals where partisan Republicans and other right wingers are in diabolical and destructive-minded control.

But, you see, there were 34 states that chose not to set up exchanges, not simply the 28 you have noted.

What about the residents of those 6 states controlled by Democrats that decided not to set up exchanges? What will happen to their federal subsidies?

Maybe Obama will sign an executive order passing them through so they will be eligible. After all, how could he leave his home state and Joe Biden's home state out in the cold?

By the way, those federal subsidies you claim are not payable to states without exchanges, the IRS in more of their infinite wisdom, said that little part of the law didn't really mean what Congress said so they have decided ALL STATES are eligible for federal subsidies on Obamacare...including the 34 (28+6) without exchanges.

There are some cases working their way through federal courts that are fighting the decision of the IRS in this matter so it will probably wind up in the hands of the Supreme Court.

If the Supreme Court has to side it is likely one of two things could happen. Either none of the 50 states plus DC will get federal subsidies for individual care or they will declare all of them should.

.

If it is "none", Obamacare will collapse.

PS: Loved this little part of your post..."So the new ACA law and its programs will come into effect despite the willful and obstructionist partisan schemes of the Republican Party in Washington and in the state capitals where partisan Republicans and other right wingers are in diabolical and destructive-minded control. "

Sounds like something Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid might say.?

I'm well aware of the language of the law and of the differing interpretations of executive branch power in this respect, and that the different interpretations are working their way through the US courts.

So, as you continue to cheer for the failure of ObamaCare, I reiterate that the ACA is not scheduled for full implementation until 2018, which gives ample time to get the many complications inherent to the complex and broad ranging ACA law reorganized and improved.

You like to ignore the fact that the ACA will not be fully implemented until 2018.

Indeed, of the 50 states and the District of Columbia, there are 17 that have a State-based Marketplace; 7 states have a Partnership Marketplace between the state and the federal government; 27 have a Federally-facilitated Marketplace only. The IRS ruling that all are eligible for subsidies is in part based on the fact all are connected to the ACA medical insurance program.

I grow weary of exposing the right wing's lies about ObamaCare, from the gross falsehoods of 2009 - that for example there were "death panels" in ObamaCare - to the falsehood that Delaware and Illinois deliberately and willfully have screwed their citizens by not establishing a state exchange in either. The fact is, neither state foresaw the problem that has surfaced, i.e., that not having a state exchange would disenfranchise those who need subsidies to participate in ObamaCare, which is also why the IRS had to make its ruling.

The fact is many posters here are professional opponents of ObamaCare and in fact oppose dogmatically and fanatically anything Prez Obama proposes. They are armed to the teeth with false data and bogus disinformation about ObamaCare - such as the "death panels" - so responding repeatedly to such villainous mischaracterizations and to their malicious and endless "death panel" kind of deliberate distractions only encourages them in their nefarious means and pursuits.

Just to correct the most recent instance of a knowing falsehood, if the Supreme Court were to rule against the IRS determination, it would not necessarily mean as claimed above that the ACA subsidy provision would be stricken absolutely, i.e., affecting all 50 states and the District of Columbia. This is so because the subsidy provision is specifically provided to states that do actively establish State-based Marketplace exchanges. Seventeen states have done exactly that while another seven states have a state-federal Partnership Marketplace exchange.

TVF readers who like honest, true, accurate information concerning ObamaCare can visit this link anytime if they like: http://obamacarefacts.com/state-health-insurance-exchange.php

So enough of dealing with the professional campaigners who knowingly, falsely, alleged "death panels" and who continuously campaign to mangle the public perception of ObamaCare, the ACA.

I say continuously, not simply continually.

That's continuously, which means even while we sleep.

You overlook or ignore the 5 million that have been cancelled from existing policies as of 1 January. If they can't get another policy in the next couple of days they will not have any cover. This is as a direct result of the ACA rules.

However, Obama has said that they can go on a barebones policy, despite it not being lawful under the ACA.

[Publicus]

Another 'if'.

The long train of possible horrors.

[chuckd]

chuckd wrote:

In an interview on Monday with the conservative Newsmax, Time's Mark Halperin said that so-called "death panels" are enshrined in the Affordable Care Act.

"It's going to be a huge issue," Halperin said. "And that's something else about which the President was not fully forthcoming or straight-forward."

"So, you believe there will be rationing, a.k.a 'death panels'?" host Steve Malzberg asked Halperin, the co-author of the 2012 election chronicle "Double Down."

"It's built into the plan. It's not like a guess or like a judgment. That's going to be part of how costs are controlled," Halperin said before arguing that it's necessary to ration care."

The interview is here: http://talkingpoints...obamacare-video

Well, here we have another right wing media organ, Newsmax, being quoted by the poster who can't resist the siren sound of the right wing media, mainstream or mostly otherwise.

So, as always, I point out the facts and the truth - reality - here, below, as follows:

Mark Halperin ✔ @MarkHalperin Follow

In Mon intv I did not say "death panels" nor do I believe ACA contains them. Was speaking of political/policy challenge of IPAB cuts. My bad

2:37 AM - 27 Nov 2013

23 Retweets 2 favorites

Mark Halperin: I Don't Believe Obamacare Contains 'Death Panels'

Mark Halperin on Tuesday sought to clarify his comments about "death panels" in the Affordable Care Act.

In a pair of tweets, Halperin said he does not believe the health care law contains "death panels," but said the Independent Payment Advisory Board faces political challenges ahead. He quoted former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (D), who called the board "essentially a health-care rationing body."

But the Affordable Care Act explicitly bars the IPAB from rationing care.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mark-halperin-i-don-t-believe-obamacare-contains-death-panels

Forbes

Why It Is So Difficult to Kill the Death Panel Myth

In August of 2009, Sarah Palin claimed that the health legislation being crafted by Democrats at the time would create a “death panel,” in which government bureaucrats would decide whether disabled and elderly patients are “worthy of healthcare.”

Despite being debunked by fact-checkers and mainstream media outlets, this myth has persisted, with almost half of Americans stating recently that they believe the Affordable Care Act (ACA) creates such a panel.

Why is the death panel myth so hard to shake and why is its persistence relevant to the unfolding of Obamacare?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterubel/2013/01/09/why-it-is-so-difficult-to-kill-the-death-panel-myth/

@chuckd

I can't say you're stalking me because I do occasionally respond.

Given however that I'm out of patience with the malicious mangling of truth and facts by the right wing, I won't be responding much more or much longer.

Then what?

:

Did you even watch or listen to the Mark Halperin interview I linked to earlier? Here it is again and, at the 08:13 mark of the interview, the remarks I quoted by him are in fact said by him as it relates to the so-called death panels.

The link for the video again: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mark-halperin-death-panels-are-built-into-obamacare-video

It is what it is, and no amount of trying to walk it back or spin it will amount to a hill of beans.

I am pleased as punch you don't accuse me of stalking you. This is an open discussion forum, after all, and if you make a post that I or anybody else disagrees with, I or they have the right to post a retort. If you don't wish to have your opinions questioned, I suggest you get a private forum that won't let the likes of me become a member.

You may continue or stop responding as you wish. It won't bother me either way.

.

Cheers

[sustento]

If you are poor and sick in the USA you die.

In Cuba you don't pay and you live.

Have I missed something?

Yes, you missed that health care in US is better than anywhere else in the world

That depends on whether you can get access to it...

[Credo]

If you are poor and sick in the USA you die.

In Cuba you don't pay and you live.

Have I missed something?

Yes, you missed that health care in US is better than anywhere else in the world

That depends on whether you can get access to it...

And that is the big, big problem. There is an increasing number of people who cannot access the health care system. They do not have health insurance and in order to qualify for medical assistance, they have to sell nearly everything they own.

Those who are opposed to Obamacare are the ones who have access.

Here in Thailand I am on a medication which comes from the US. It is manufactured in the US and distributed in the US. The drug is renamed and sold in Thailand for 50% of what it cost in the US. There are a LOT of people making a LOT of money on those who are sick.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[Publicus]

chuckd wrote:

In an interview on Monday with the conservative Newsmax, Time's Mark Halperin said that so-called "death panels" are enshrined in the Affordable Care Act.

"It's going to be a huge issue," Halperin said. "And that's something else about which the President was not fully forthcoming or straight-forward."

"So, you believe there will be rationing, a.k.a 'death panels'?" host Steve Malzberg asked Halperin, the co-author of the 2012 election chronicle "Double Down."

"It's built into the plan. It's not like a guess or like a judgment. That's going to be part of how costs are controlled," Halperin said before arguing that it's necessary to ration care."

The interview is here: http://talkingpoints...obamacare-video

Well, here we have another right wing media organ, Newsmax, being quoted by the poster who can't resist the siren sound of the right wing media, mainstream or mostly otherwise.

So, as always, I point out the facts and the truth - reality - here, below, as follows:

Mark Halperin ✔ @MarkHalperin Follow

In Mon intv I did not say "death panels" nor do I believe ACA contains them. Was speaking of political/policy challenge of IPAB cuts. My bad

2:37 AM - 27 Nov 2013

23 Retweets 2 favorites

Mark Halperin: I Don't Believe Obamacare Contains 'Death Panels'

Mark Halperin on Tuesday sought to clarify his comments about "death panels" in the Affordable Care Act.

In a pair of tweets, Halperin said he does not believe the health care law contains "death panels," but said the Independent Payment Advisory Board faces political challenges ahead. He quoted former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (D), who called the board "essentially a health-care rationing body."

But the Affordable Care Act explicitly bars the IPAB from rationing care.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mark-halperin-i-don-t-believe-obamacare-contains-death-panels

Forbes

Why It Is So Difficult to Kill the Death Panel Myth

In August of 2009, Sarah Palin claimed that the health legislation being crafted by Democrats at the time would create a “death panel,” in which government bureaucrats would decide whether disabled and elderly patients are “worthy of healthcare.”

Despite being debunked by fact-checkers and mainstream media outlets, this myth has persisted, with almost half of Americans stating recently that they believe the Affordable Care Act (ACA) creates such a panel.

Why is the death panel myth so hard to shake and why is its persistence relevant to the unfolding of Obamacare?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterubel/2013/01/09/why-it-is-so-difficult-to-kill-the-death-panel-myth/

@chuckd

I can't say you're stalking me because I do occasionally respond.

Given however that I'm out of patience with the malicious mangling of truth and facts by the right wing, I won't be responding much more or much longer.

Then what?

:

Did you even watch or listen to the Mark Halperin interview I linked to earlier? Here it is again and, at the 08:13 mark of the interview, the remarks I quoted by him are in fact said by him as it relates to the so-called death panels.

The link for the video again: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mark-halperin-death-panels-are-built-into-obamacare-video

It is what it is, and no amount of trying to walk it back or spin it will amount to a hill of beans.

I am pleased as punch you don't accuse me of stalking you. This is an open discussion forum, after all, and if you make a post that I or anybody else disagrees with, I or they have the right to post a retort. If you don't wish to have your opinions questioned, I suggest you get a private forum that won't let the likes of me become a member.

You may continue or stop responding as you wish. It won't bother me either way.

.

Cheers

Mark Halperin is wrong and confirms he is wrong.

"My bad," Halperin tweeted after the mangled interview of a month ago was published, which I note for emphasis was a month ago.

It's highly embarrassing to say the least for a journalist of his caliber and status to get caught up in the right wing's web of lies, distortions, falsehoods, mythmaking and malicious malevolence. So he's seriously backed off his remarks.

Halperin is now struggling to keep intact his credibility as a mainstream journalist and a respected author. I doubt he or any other responsible or wise public figure will be talking much any more to the right wing mass disinformation media about ObamaCare given the outcome of the leading interview Halperin stupidly walked right into.

Only a shmuck journalist falls for a Big Lie started by the dingbat Sarah Palin in 2009 during the ACA arguments leading up to enactment of the law, as pointed out by Forbes magazine among many other responsible MSM organizations.

Halperin's remarks were made to the right wing rag, Newsmax a month ago and now are being dredged up as Christmas arrives. You can believe Time Inc's very middle America editors are taking close note of Halperin's pedestrian behaviors and abysmal professional judgements in this bush league tangle.

I've never in my lifetime seen such a political fight as this one concerning ObamaCare, to include the Watergate scandal. The difference in this fight is that the right wing has taken control of a major political party, the Republican Party. Fanatical obsessive-compulsive absolutists and neo-Confederates are driving the opposition to medical insurance reform.

A gang of frustrated self-appointed accountants.

Hard core and cold-blooded reactionaries, all.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[chuckd]

As I predicted. The spin job didn't amount to a hill of beans.

This is the latest news that is going to turn the Obamacare world even more upside down.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HEALTH PLAN STICKER SHOCK AHEAD FOR SOME BUYERS

by BREITBART NEWS 23 Dec 2013, 6:34 AM PDT

By CARLA K. JOHNSON

AP Medical Writer

As a key enrollment deadline hits Monday, many people without health insurance have been sizing up policies on the new government health care marketplace and making what seems like a logical choice: They're picking the cheapest one.

Increasingly, experts in health insurance are becoming concerned that many of these first-time buyers will be in for a shock when they get medical care next year and discover they're on the hook for most of the initial cost.

The prospect of sticker shock after Jan. 1, when those who sign up for policies now can begin getting coverage, is seen as a looming problem for a new national system that has been plagued by trouble since the new marketplaces went online in the states in October.

Entire article here: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/23/Health-plan-sticker-shock-ahead-for-some-buyers

[Publicus]

As I predicted. The spin job didn't amount to a hill of beans.

This is the latest news that is going to turn the Obamacare world even more upside down.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HEALTH PLAN STICKER SHOCK AHEAD FOR SOME BUYERS

by BREITBART NEWS 23 Dec 2013, 6:34 AM PDT

By CARLA K. JOHNSON

AP Medical Writer

As a key enrollment deadline hits Monday, many people without health insurance have been sizing up policies on the new government health care marketplace and making what seems like a logical choice: They're picking the cheapest one.

Increasingly, experts in health insurance are becoming concerned that many of these first-time buyers will be in for a shock when they get medical care next year and discover they're on the hook for most of the initial cost.

The prospect of sticker shock after Jan. 1, when those who sign up for policies now can begin getting coverage, is seen as a looming problem for a new national system that has been plagued by trouble since the new marketplaces went online in the states in October.

Entire article here: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/23/Health-plan-sticker-shock-ahead-for-some-buyers

Another in the right wingers' continuous and interminably long train of possible horrors which at the moment is trying to detract from the new enrollment figures that will be coming out after the Dec 24th deadline to apply for medical insurance effective January 1st (extended on day from Dec 23rd because of the high demand occurring at the online exchanges).

The right winger's long train of possible horrors has 1000 cars in it, and there's plenty more to come so we've come to expect the unrelenting crying of wolf and are prepared to deal with it - by dismissing it outright.

The professional horror mongers of the right are definitely killing any credibility they once had.

The post above again cites the oracle of the right wing disinformation machine, Breitbart News, which may actually surpass Fox in their pathetic tenacity and hilarity.

[chuckd]

As I predicted. The spin job didn't amount to a hill of beans.

This is the latest news that is going to turn the Obamacare world even more upside down.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HEALTH PLAN STICKER SHOCK AHEAD FOR SOME BUYERS

by BREITBART NEWS 23 Dec 2013, 6:34 AM PDT

By CARLA K. JOHNSON

AP Medical Writer

As a key enrollment deadline hits Monday, many people without health insurance have been sizing up policies on the new government health care marketplace and making what seems like a logical choice: They're picking the cheapest one.

Increasingly, experts in health insurance are becoming concerned that many of these first-time buyers will be in for a shock when they get medical care next year and discover they're on the hook for most of the initial cost.

The prospect of sticker shock after Jan. 1, when those who sign up for policies now can begin getting coverage, is seen as a looming problem for a new national system that has been plagued by trouble since the new marketplaces went online in the states in October.

Entire article here: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/23/Health-plan-sticker-shock-ahead-for-some-buyers

Another in the right wingers' continuous and interminably long train of possible horrors which at the moment is trying to detract from the new enrollment figures that will be coming out after the Dec 24th deadline to apply for medical insurance effective January 1st (extended on day from Dec 23rd because of the high demand occurring at the online exchanges).

The right winger's long train of possible horrors has 1000 cars in it, and there's plenty more to come so we've come to expect the unrelenting crying of wolf and are prepared to deal with it - by dismissing it outright.

The professional horror mongers of the right are definitely killing any credibility they once had.

The post above again cites the oracle of the right wing disinformation machine, Breitbart News, which may actually surpass Fox in their pathetic tenacity and hilarity.

You claim: "The post above again cites the oracle of the right wing disinformation machine, Breitbart News, which may actually surpass Fox in their pathetic tenacity and hilarity."

I suppose I could have used one of the many sources for this article rather than Breitbart but Breitbart is the source used by Drudge Report, where I get some of my news.

If you peer very closely at my post you will see, the article was written by one Carla K. Johnson, Medical Writer for the Associated Press, and was not written by Breitbart. All they did was publish it, as did many others.

Here are some other links to the very same article. Perhaps one of them will satisfy you goal of fairness in reporting.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-plan-sticker-shock-ahead-some-buyers-2D11792706

http://news.yahoo.com/health-plan-sticker-shock-ahead-buyers-160838205.html

http://start.toshiba.com/news/read/category/Top%20News/article/ap-health_plan_sticker_shock_ahead_for_some-ap

Please let me know if other links are required. There are many of them to the article about sticker shock.

[Publicus]

As I predicted. The spin job didn't amount to a hill of beans.

This is the latest news that is going to turn the Obamacare world even more upside down.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HEALTH PLAN STICKER SHOCK AHEAD FOR SOME BUYERS

by BREITBART NEWS 23 Dec 2013, 6:34 AM PDT

By CARLA K. JOHNSON

AP Medical Writer

As a key enrollment deadline hits Monday, many people without health insurance have been sizing up policies on the new government health care marketplace and making what seems like a logical choice: They're picking the cheapest one.

Increasingly, experts in health insurance are becoming concerned that many of these first-time buyers will be in for a shock when they get medical care next year and discover they're on the hook for most of the initial cost.

The prospect of sticker shock after Jan. 1, when those who sign up for policies now can begin getting coverage, is seen as a looming problem for a new national system that has been plagued by trouble since the new marketplaces went online in the states in October.

Entire article here: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/23/Health-plan-sticker-shock-ahead-for-some-buyers

Another in the right wingers' continuous and interminably long train of possible horrors which at the moment is trying to detract from the new enrollment figures that will be coming out after the Dec 24th deadline to apply for medical insurance effective January 1st (extended on day from Dec 23rd because of the high demand occurring at the online exchanges).

The right winger's long train of possible horrors has 1000 cars in it, and there's plenty more to come so we've come to expect the unrelenting crying of wolf and are prepared to deal with it - by dismissing it outright.

The professional horror mongers of the right are definitely killing any credibility they once had.

The post above again cites the oracle of the right wing disinformation machine, Breitbart News, which may actually surpass Fox in their pathetic tenacity and hilarity.

You claim: "The post above again cites the oracle of the right wing disinformation machine, Breitbart News, which may actually surpass Fox in their pathetic tenacity and hilarity."

I suppose I could have used one of the many sources for this article rather than Breitbart but Breitbart is the source used by Drudge Report, where I get some of my news.

If you peer very closely at my post you will see, the article was written by one Carla K. Johnson, Medical Writer for the Associated Press, and was not written by Breitbart. All they did was publish it, as did many others.

Here are some other links to the very same article. Perhaps one of them will satisfy you goal of fairness in reporting.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-plan-sticker-shock-ahead-some-buyers-2D11792706

http://news.yahoo.com/health-plan-sticker-shock-ahead-buyers-160838205.html

http://start.toshiba.com/news/read/category/Top%20News/article/ap-health_plan_sticker_shock_ahead_for_some-ap

Please let me know if other links are required. There are many of them to the article about sticker shock.

Ask and ye shall receive.

You asked in your post above if other links are required concerning your most recent old issue that's been grossly misreported for much too long without correction which needs be to come eventually - the sooner the better of course.

Yes, there are other links, so given you would never provide them, it falls upon me to do so.

It also falls upon me to have to point out that the consumer protection provisions of the Patient Protection and Affrordable Care Act begin to come into full effect during the course of next year.

So Merry Christmas and here are but some of the vital links you delinquently fail to provide:

What’s Behind the Rate-Shock-Victim Obsession

The minority facing sticker shock has become a stand-in for the entire public.

This turns out to be a synecdoche for the entire Obamacare narrative now. The world of the Republican Party’s fever dreams has sprung to life in the mainstream media, where the Affordable Care Act now exists primarily as a series of cruel, oppressive acts of theft against innocent Americans. Here are CBS News, The Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post chronicling the parade of horribles.

The stories often turn out to be either more complicated than initially depicted, or wildly overblown.

But it is surely true that some people will find themselves worse off, at least immediately, under the new law. That their fate has blotted out everything else about the law explains why health-care reform is so maddeningly difficult to enact in the first place.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/11/whats-behind-the-rate-shock-victim-obsession.html

Insurers Plan To Spend $500 Million In Obamacare Advertising Next Year

Insurance companies plan to spend a combined $500 million in local television advertising in 2014, according to the Washington Post -- more than double what they spent in 2012.

The Wall Street reported Monday that WellPoint will spend $100 million by the end of the year after having held off because of problems with HealthCare.gov.

The ad blitz from insurers comes at the same time that the Obama administration and outside advocates are upping their outreach efforts ahead of the Dec. 23 deadline to sign up for coverage that starts in January.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/obamacare-insurance-companies-tv-advertising

As Obamacare Rolls Out, Health Insurers Target Consumers With Educational Push

While the Obamacare debate rages in the Washington budget battle, most Americans are seeking clarity on what the Affordable Care Act means in practical terms. Health insurers are lining up to help.

Cigna's guide aims to keep it simple.

By focusing their early marketing efforts primarily on education, health-insurance companies are hoping to take advantage of the law's complexity to lure new members to their plans.

http://adage.com/article/news/health-insurers-fight-share-obamacare-rolls/244457/

Health investors weigh in on Obamacare’s winners and losers

EHealth‘s Gary Lauer said that consumers will benefit in the near-term. He’s the chief executive for a company that’s a marketplace for individual and family health insurance plans.

“They [patients] have more choices for enrollment, whether it is through a private exchange, state exchange or other agent,” he said. As Mostahari said during dinner, Americans will be able to do what they do best: shop.

Lauer also predicts that more people will start companies in the wake of the ACA. “People won’t feel as tied to their employer for health insurance,” he said. People might feel that they need to hold on to a steady job, or they risk being denied insurance, and having to pay out of pocket for health services. Through Obamacare, would-be entrepreneurs will be eligible for a plan on the new marketplaces.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/10/01/health-investors-weigh-in-on-obamacares-winners-and-losers/

[NeverSure]

As I predicted. The spin job didn't amount to a hill of beans.

This is the latest news that is going to turn the Obamacare world even more upside down.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HEALTH PLAN STICKER SHOCK AHEAD FOR SOME BUYERS

by BREITBART NEWS 23 Dec 2013, 6:34 AM PDT

By CARLA K. JOHNSON

AP Medical Writer

As a key enrollment deadline hits Monday, many people without health insurance have been sizing up policies on the new government health care marketplace and making what seems like a logical choice: They're picking the cheapest one.

Increasingly, experts in health insurance are becoming concerned that many of these first-time buyers will be in for a shock when they get medical care next year and discover they're on the hook for most of the initial cost.

The prospect of sticker shock after Jan. 1, when those who sign up for policies now can begin getting coverage, is seen as a looming problem for a new national system that has been plagued by trouble since the new marketplaces went online in the states in October.

Entire article here: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/23/Health-plan-sticker-shock-ahead-for-some-buyers

Another in the right wingers' continuous and interminably long train of possible horrors which at the moment is trying to detract from the new enrollment figures that will be coming out after the Dec 24th deadline to apply for medical insurance effective January 1st (extended on day from Dec 23rd because of the high demand occurring at the online exchanges).

The right winger's long train of possible horrors has 1000 cars in it, and there's plenty more to come so we've come to expect the unrelenting crying of wolf and are prepared to deal with it - by dismissing it outright.

The professional horror mongers of the right are definitely killing any credibility they once had.

The post above again cites the oracle of the right wing disinformation machine, Breitbart News, which may actually surpass Fox in their pathetic tenacity and hilarity.

You claim: "The post above again cites the oracle of the right wing disinformation machine, Breitbart News, which may actually surpass Fox in their pathetic tenacity and hilarity."

I suppose I could have used one of the many sources for this article rather than Breitbart but Breitbart is the source used by Drudge Report, where I get some of my news.

If you peer very closely at my post you will see, the article was written by one Carla K. Johnson, Medical Writer for the Associated Press, and was not written by Breitbart. All they did was publish it, as did many others.

Here are some other links to the very same article. Perhaps one of them will satisfy you goal of fairness in reporting.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-plan-sticker-shock-ahead-some-buyers-2D11792706

http://news.yahoo.com/health-plan-sticker-shock-ahead-buyers-160838205.html

http://start.toshiba.com/news/read/category/Top%20News/article/ap-health_plan_sticker_shock_ahead_for_some-ap

Please let me know if other links are required. There are many of them to the article about sticker shock.

Ask and ye shall receive.

You asked in your post above if other links are required concerning your most recent old issue that's been reported throughout all of this year.

Yes, there are other links, so given you would never provide them, it falls upon me to do so.

It also falls upon me to have to point out that the consumer protection provisions of the Patient Protection and Affrordable Care Act begin to come into full effect during the course of next year.

So Merry Christmas and here are but some of the vital links you miserably fail to provide, to include Drudge:

What’s Behind the Rate-Shock-Victim Obsession

The minority facing sticker shock has become a stand-in for the entire public.

This turns out to be a synecdoche for the entire Obamacare narrative now. The world of the Republican Party’s fever dreams has sprung to life in the mainstream media, where the Affordable Care Act now exists primarily as a series of cruel, oppressive acts of theft against innocent Americans. Here are CBS News, The Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post chronicling the parade of horribles.

The stories often turn out to be either more complicated than initially depicted, or wildly overblown.

But it is surely true that some people will find themselves worse off, at least immediately, under the new law. That their fate has blotted out everything else about the law explains why health-care reform is so maddeningly difficult to enact in the first place.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/11/whats-behind-the-rate-shock-victim-obsession.html

Insurers Plan To Spend $500 Million In Obamacare Advertising Next Year

Insurance companies plan to spend a combined $500 million in local television advertising in 2014, according to the Washington Post -- more than double what they spent in 2012.

The Wall Street reported Monday that WellPoint will spend $100 million by the end of the year after having held off because of problems with HealthCare.gov.

The ad blitz from insurers comes at the same time that the Obama administration and outside advocates are upping their outreach efforts ahead of the Dec. 23 deadline to sign up for coverage that starts in January.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/obamacare-insurance-companies-tv-advertising

As Obamacare Rolls Out, Health Insurers Target Consumers With Educational Push

While the Obamacare debate rages in the Washington budget battle, most Americans are seeking clarity on what the Affordable Care Act means in practical terms. Health insurers are lining up to help.

Cigna's guide aims to keep it simple.

By focusing their early marketing efforts primarily on education, health-insurance companies are hoping to take advantage of the law's complexity to lure new members to their plans.

http://adage.com/article/news/health-insurers-fight-share-obamacare-rolls/244457/

Health investors weigh in on Obamacare’s winners and losers

EHealth‘s Gary Lauer said that consumers will benefit in the near-term. He’s the chief executive for a company that’s a marketplace for individual and family health insurance plans.

“They [patients] have more choices for enrollment, whether it is through a private exchange, state exchange or other agent,” he said. As Mostahari said during dinner, Americans will be able to do what they do best: shop.

Lauer also predicts that more people will start companies in the wake of the ACA. “People won’t feel as tied to their employer for health insurance,” he said. People might feel that they need to hold on to a steady job, or they risk being denied insurance, and having to pay out of pocket for health services. Through Obamacare, would-be entrepreneurs will be eligible for a plan on the new marketplaces.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/10/01/health-investors-weigh-in-on-obamacares-winners-and-losers/

Can you not see that the fact the the private insurance companies are advertising this means that they are making a killing off the American public with it? Of course the are advertising it. It was made for them to make a lot of money. It was your typical Democrat back door deal.

The American public (that's me, the taxpayer) is providing a huge windfall to private insurance companies. When the private insurance companies love it, you have to know it isn't good for the common man.

[Publicus]

@NeverSure

Businesses and everyone else in almost any endeavor public or private advertise as naturally as you or I breath oxygen.

Because it's ObamaCare, you people are trying to make the normal practice of private and public sector entities - advertising - sound like some sort of scheming and evil criminal enterprise.

Geez!

When I and a Thai partner opened a private, after school and weekends English Language School we advertised for three months before we opened and every month after that for six more months and are doing very well thank you without any criminal complaints against the fact per se that we advertised our product, our professional service.

You people are completely over the top on this and it's just become unbelievable.

You people are fanatics, obsessives.

Get some perspective, please.

Merry Christmas and good night.

[chuckd]

Of course the insurance companies are going to advertise heavily. They are, in effect, being subsidized by the federal government now and have nothing to lose.

They are in a gain, gain position.

Wonder what happened to that $2,500 per family per year that Obamacare was going to save everybody.

Anybody see that coming any time soon?

Sticker shock is still going to be a story regardless who publishes the article...Breitbart, Yahoo, NBC or even the Yuma Sun.

[F430murci]

Happy Holidays!!!

[NeverSure]

@NeverSure

Businesses and everyone else in almost any endeavor public or private advertise as naturally as you or I breath oxygen.

Because it's ObamaCare, you people are trying to make the normal practice of private and public sector entities - advertising - sound like some sort of scheming and evil criminal enterprise.

Geez!

When I and a Thai partner opened a private, after school and weekends English Language School we advertised for three months before we opened and every month after that for six more months and are doing very well thank you without any criminal complaints against the fact per se that we advertised our product, our professional service.

You people are completely over the top on this and it's just become unbelievable.

You people are fanatics, obsessives.

Get some perspective, please.

Merry Christmas and good night.

Please stop flaming members by calling them names. It does nothing to support you opinions.

Your private school was not heavily subsidized by the taxpayer nor did you have the government fining people if they didn't join your school at excessively high prices that you set.

In this mess called the "affordable..." the insurance companies are raising rates, the rates are not regulated, and still if citizens don't buy it they are fined by the government. Sticker shock abounds. Deductibles have increased.

And you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Merry Christmas.

[Publicus]

@NeverSure

Businesses and everyone else in almost any endeavor public or private advertise as naturally as you or I breath oxygen.

Because it's ObamaCare, you people are trying to make the normal practice of private and public sector entities - advertising - sound like some sort of scheming and evil criminal enterprise.

Geez!

When I and a Thai partner opened a private, after school and weekends English Language School we advertised for three months before we opened and every month after that for six more months and are doing very well thank you without any criminal complaints against the fact per se that we advertised our product, our professional service.

You people are completely over the top on this and it's just become unbelievable.

You people are fanatics, obsessives.

Get some perspective, please.

Merry Christmas and good night.

Please stop flaming members by calling them names. It does nothing to support you opinions.

Your private school was not heavily subsidized by the taxpayer nor did you have the government fining people if they didn't join your school at excessively high prices that you set.

In this mess called the "affordable..." the insurance companies are raising rates, the rates are not regulated, and still if citizens don't buy it they are fined by the government. Sticker shock abounds. Deductibles have increased.

And you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Merry Christmas.

So called "sticker shock" applies to a small minority of ObamaCare subscribers. The political right has deliberately and calculatingly blown sticker shock completely out of proportion to misrepresent it as permeating the whole of the ACA, which it certainly does not.

Getting medical insurance means dealing with the companies that provide medical insurance. Seeing their advertising informs in the competitive marketplace which brings down prices and costs.

When the insurance companies next month begin their massive advertising campaign on tv and in print many more people will sign up and before too long prices will decrease. Isn't this how the marketplace works? This is the predicate of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Yet it's what mortifies the right wing.

ObamaCare is the most ambitious piece of social legislation in history. It does so much more than any other such law ever did, from the Social Security Act of 1935 to the Medicare Act of 1966 and the Medicaid Act of 1966. The ACA penetrates and permeates throughout the entire economy, not only to doctors or hospitals - right through to the IRS.

This is a massive and complex new public-private joint undertaking of necessity, so it's going to take time to work through and it will be worked through. However, it's complexity also makes it vulnerable to sabotage by those who are determinedly trying to destroy it before it takes full or even substantial effect.

[Publicus]

Of course the insurance companies are going to advertise heavily. They are, in effect, being subsidized by the federal government now and have nothing to lose.

They are in a gain, gain position.

Wonder what happened to that $2,500 per family per year that Obamacare was going to save everybody.

Anybody see that coming any time soon?

Sticker shock is still going to be a story regardless who publishes the article...Breitbart, Yahoo, NBC or even the Yuma Sun.

I grow weary of arguing the same points repeatedly. Apparently you missed this so here it is again.

What’s Behind the Rate-Shock-Victim Obsession

The minority facing sticker shock has become a stand-in for the entire public.

This turns out to be a synecdoche for the entire Obamacare narrative now. The world of the Republican Party’s fever dreams has sprung to life in the mainstream media, where the Affordable Care Act now exists primarily as a series of cruel, oppressive acts of theft against innocent Americans. Here are CBS News, The Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post chronicling the parade of horribles.

The stories often turn out to be either more complicated than initially depicted, or wildly overblown.

But it is surely true that some people will find themselves worse off, at least immediately, under the new law. That their fate has blotted out everything else about the law explains why health-care reform is so maddeningly difficult to enact in the first place.

http://nymag.com/dai...-obsession.html

[chuckd]

Of course the insurance companies are going to advertise heavily. They are, in effect, being subsidized by the federal government now and have nothing to lose.

They are in a gain, gain position.

Wonder what happened to that $2,500 per family per year that Obamacare was going to save everybody.

Anybody see that coming any time soon?

Sticker shock is still going to be a story regardless who publishes the article...Breitbart, Yahoo, NBC or even the Yuma Sun.

I grow weary of arguing the same points repeatedly. Apparently you missed this so here it is again.

What’s Behind the Rate-Shock-Victim Obsession

The minority facing sticker shock has become a stand-in for the entire public.

This turns out to be a synecdoche for the entire Obamacare narrative now. The world of the Republican Party’s fever dreams has sprung to life in the mainstream media, where the Affordable Care Act now exists primarily as a series of cruel, oppressive acts of theft against innocent Americans. Here are CBS News, The Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post chronicling the parade of horribles.

The stories often turn out to be either more complicated than initially depicted, or wildly overblown.

But it is surely true that some people will find themselves worse off, at least immediately, under the new law. That their fate has blotted out everything else about the law explains why health-care reform is so maddeningly difficult to enact in the first place.

http://nymag.com/dai...-obsession.html

You might want to read the comments section of your link. The readers of your article are hardly happy with what is happening to them in their Obamacare enrollments.

Here is an example:

SEATTLEDAWG

I'm a former NYC resident living in Washington State. My health coverage for myself, my wife and my daughter is roughly $1,200 a month and is provided by a Blue Cross affiliate, so it's not a fly-by-night issuer or coverage that is limited and risky. After a face-to-face meeting yesterday, we've learned that our premiums will remain the same, our deductible will rise from $1,800 each to $6,500 each, and the major hospitals in the area (Swedish and University of Washington) are no longer contracted with this major insurer. So, I lost the coverage I liked, my expenses have rocketed upward and my doctor is no longer available. The rep with the insurer was skeptical that anybody would be fearful of a $100 fine if they didn't purchase health insurance. Obviously, the issues with the ACA run well beyond a website malfunction. This is an epic mess.

and, in defense of Obamacare, there is this...

MILHOUS451

I keep waiting for someone else to make this point, but it looks like it’s up to me, so ...

most of you shrieking trolls are from breitbart, right? that’s BREITBART, proud home of james lieoutmyass o’keefe, concocter of crudely faked videos with intercut scenes added after the fact? fake dialog dubbed in after the fact? falsely represented as actual interviews for political effect? who continued to be a breitbart protégé until ol’ andrew drank himself into a heart attack? THAT breitbart?

and yet your delicate sensibilities are shocked when obama makes a statement that only applies to 97% of obamacare clients instead 100%? when you inhabit a website whose sole purpose is ratf*king and lying for effect? YOU slugs are shocked?

Merry Christmas

[Publicus]

Of course the insurance companies are going to advertise heavily. They are, in effect, being subsidized by the federal government now and have nothing to lose.

They are in a gain, gain position.

Wonder what happened to that $2,500 per family per year that Obamacare was going to save everybody.

Anybody see that coming any time soon?

Sticker shock is still going to be a story regardless who publishes the article...Breitbart, Yahoo, NBC or even the Yuma Sun.

I grow weary of arguing the same points repeatedly. Apparently you missed this so here it is again.

What’s Behind the Rate-Shock-Victim Obsession

The minority facing sticker shock has become a stand-in for the entire public.

This turns out to be a synecdoche for the entire Obamacare narrative now. The world of the Republican Party’s fever dreams has sprung to life in the mainstream media, where the Affordable Care Act now exists primarily as a series of cruel, oppressive acts of theft against innocent Americans. Here are CBS News, The Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post chronicling the parade of horribles.

The stories often turn out to be either more complicated than initially depicted, or wildly overblown.

But it is surely true that some people will find themselves worse off, at least immediately, under the new law. That their fate has blotted out everything else about the law explains why health-care reform is so maddeningly difficult to enact in the first place.

http://nymag.com/dai...-obsession.html

You might want to read the comments section of your link. The readers of your article are hardly happy with what is happening to them in their Obamacare enrollments.

Here is an example:

SEATTLEDAWG

I'm a former NYC resident living in Washington State. My health coverage for myself, my wife and my daughter is roughly $1,200 a month and is provided by a Blue Cross affiliate, so it's not a fly-by-night issuer or coverage that is limited and risky. After a face-to-face meeting yesterday, we've learned that our premiums will remain the same, our deductible will rise from $1,800 each to $6,500 each, and the major hospitals in the area (Swedish and University of Washington) are no longer contracted with this major insurer. So, I lost the coverage I liked, my expenses have rocketed upward and my doctor is no longer available. The rep with the insurer was skeptical that anybody would be fearful of a $100 fine if they didn't purchase health insurance. Obviously, the issues with the ACA run well beyond a website malfunction. This is an epic mess.

and, in defense of Obamacare, there is this...

MILHOUS451

I keep waiting for someone else to make this point, but it looks like it’s up to me, so ...

most of you shrieking trolls are from breitbart, right? that’s BREITBART, proud home of james lieoutmyass o’keefe, concocter of crudely faked videos with intercut scenes added after the fact? fake dialog dubbed in after the fact? falsely represented as actual interviews for political effect? who continued to be a breitbart protégé until ol’ andrew drank himself into a heart attack? THAT breitbart?

and yet your delicate sensibilities are shocked when obama makes a statement that only applies to 97% of obamacare clients instead 100%? when you inhabit a website whose sole purpose is ratf*king and lying for effect? YOU slugs are shocked?

Merry Christmas

The political right wing are determined to destroy ObamaCare no matter what it takes, to include attacking it on a daily basis until the good guys get worn down or out.

The right is its own worst enemy.

[chuckd]

The right is its own worst enemy.

For once I agree with you. The right should just step aside, let the law implode and the left continue to make themselves look silly trying to defend it.

Maybe I'll do that...and then maybe not.

Cheers.

[Publicus]

The right is its own worst enemy.

For once I agree with you. The right should just step aside, let the law implode and the left continue to make themselves look silly trying to defend it.

Maybe I'll do that...and then maybe not.

Cheers.

Cheers.