airco compressor question

[belg]

I was wondering if it is technically possible to connect an airco compressor that is technically lower than the requirements of the installation or even from a different brand

we have a huege mitsubishi compressor (I call it the monster) ms-sd24vc - as it is so big and makes a lot of noise that keeps me awake at night (never cycles down or just for 5 min)

it even vibrates + noise all over the house

my wife has no problem to sleep with it, I do !

you can compare it to sleeping next to a truck in stationary mode

so I would like to buy a compressor that is smaller than what we have to have less noise & less electrical bill

but in the shops, where people are only sales people, they all want to sell a whole new unit as they pretend it has to be together & just a smaller compressor, less specification that our indoor thing, is not possible

is there any truth in this ?

any expert opinion welcome

[h90]

I am no specialist, but it is doable with limitations.

And it won't work that well and may adjusting the tiny tube that reduces the pressure (and no one can do that).

But if it is noise, check the following:

It is screwed together proper or half the screws are missing so the metal vibrates (most probably).

Under the compressor are rubber pads that should eliminate vibrations. They are OK (they are made from the cheapest rubber and fall apart after a couple of years, but are cheap to replace). They should also be screwed down proper.

Best way is to take it apart and than turn it on and check where the noise comes from. Modern compressor are very silent.

Additional you can put rubber parts, sheet or similar under the complete housing. (should be easily available, if not contact me)

the tube for the gas should be bend, not sure but I think, an upside down U so it doesn't transmit vibrations.

Even 10 year old sets are relative silent if everything is OK, but I never saw a good one until I fixed it myself.....

[Crossy]

+1 on h90

Also, if the compressor is not cutting out it could be:-

1. The system is too small for the room
2. You have the temperature set too low (for the system / room combination)
3. There is a fault of some sort

Check if the BTU rating is shown anywhere accessible and let us know that and the size of the room it's installed in.

When was the system last serviced / cleaned / gas checked?

[Pomthai]

How big is the room roughly in metres?

How many btu is the compressor unit outside?

From personal experience Daikin Inverter units are some of the quietest and most economical units available. I have one in the main bedroom. The rest of the house has Panasonic standard units. The moment they die based upon the performance of the Daikin, they'll be replaced with Daikins.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Pomthai

[h90]

+1 on h90

Also, if the compressor is not cutting out it could be:-

1. The system is too small for the room
2. You have the temperature set too low (for the system / room combination)
3. There is a fault of some sort

Check if the BTU rating is shown anywhere accessible and let us know that and the size of the room it's installed in.

When was the system last serviced / cleaned / gas checked?

add: some compressor get more noisy if they run with very low pressure....empty system.

Some systems need refill every 2-3 month, if they leak (one of the nicer aircon guys told me that it is not uncommon to unscrew that valve that looks like a care tire valve a little bit. So there is a small leakage --> steady income for the service guy.

Crossy: If it is noisy, I think if it cuts out and 5 min later it starts again for 20 min, it is more disturbing than a steady noise. But anyway a modern (heck even the old piston one are not that noisy) rotary compressor with vibration damper isn't very noisy. But it the rubber is broken and it touch on the metal you feel like an old motorbike is nailed to your wall.

[namdocmai]

Maybe some Somchai that trades in used parts can fix it for you. Did they ever clean the compressor?

Noisy ones are mostly the rotary types who also use more electricity.

I also like the Daikin inverter, costs more to buy but uses less electricity and also makes no noise. The bad thing is that in our bedroom the Daikin has to be cleaned 2 times a year or it doesn't work properly and starts to make noise from the inner-unit.

[Naam]

Did they ever clean the compressor?

[Naam]

Noisy ones are mostly the rotary types who also use more electricity.

any more ridiculous comments to prove that you possess a wealth of "no idea" about aircons?

[Naam]

+1 on h90

Also, if the compressor is not cutting out it could be:-

1. The system is too small for the room
2. You have the temperature set too low (for the system / room combination)
3. There is a fault of some sort

Check if the BTU rating is shown anywhere accessible and let us know that and the size of the room it's installed in.

When was the system last serviced / cleaned / gas checked?

"ms-sd24vc" 24,000btu/h

[namdocmai]

Noisy ones are mostly the rotary types who also use more electricity.

any more ridiculous comments to prove that you possess a wealth of "no idea" about aircons?

Yes i have had airco maintenance company's coming here without a ladder. Then there is no way that they will clean the compressor.

rotary ones make much more noise then inverter types. Inverters make noise nonstop and rotary's go off and on all the time (i mean the compressors)

What makes you think my info is wrong?

[Naam]

Noisy ones are mostly the rotary types who also use more electricity.

any more ridiculous comments to prove that you possess a wealth of "no idea" about aircons?

Yes i have had airco maintenance company's coming here without a ladder. Then there is no way that they will clean the compressor.

rotary ones make much more noise then inverter types. Inverters make noise nonstop and rotary's go off and on all the time (i mean the compressors)

What makes you think my info is wrong?

sorry, but i don't discuss the brushstroke an old master used for his painting with a blind man. it leads to nowhere.

[IMHO]

OP: Have you asked how much trade-in you can get for your current system? Might just be easier / cheaper / more reliable just to turn it over for a new system?

[belg]

costed 40.000+ new, trade in : 3000 baht...

made noise & vibration since DAY 1

room is 24 m²

tired of sleepless nights

[Naam]

costed 40.000+ new, trade in : 3000 baht...

made noise & vibration since DAY 1

room is 24 m²

tired of sleepless nights

it's a long shot but worthwhile to check because TIT - This Is Thailand. the compressor in the outside unit is held down during transportation by tightened nuts (housing>bolt>rubber cushion>compressor>nut). these nuts are loosened after installation to let the compressor vibrate and swing a bit without transferring the vibrations to the housing which amplifies the vibrations causing noise.

sometimes the "engineers" (not only in Thailand) forget to loosen these nuts.

[Naam]

costed 40.000+ new, trade in : 3000 baht...

you paid that much?

[Crossy]

Indeed Naam ^^^.

24,000 BTU seems more than somewhat large for a 25m² room, it should be running at better than 25% duty cycle.

EDIT Unless, of course you're Naam who likes sub-arctic conditions.

[namdocmai]

Noisy ones are mostly the rotary types who also use more electricity.

any more ridiculous comments to prove that you possess a wealth of "no idea" about aircons?

Yes i have had airco maintenance company's coming here without a ladder. Then there is no way that they will clean the compressor.

rotary ones make much more noise then inverter types. Inverters make noise nonstop and rotary's go off and on all the time (i mean the compressors)

What makes you think my info is wrong?

sorry, but i don't discuss the brushstroke an old master used for his painting with a blind man. it leads to nowhere.

Well i have 2 Daikins next to eachother, a rotary and a converter and when i m outside the rotary makes more noise then the converter-compressor.

And the company that came without a ladder, TIT

So you can't explain what is wrong in my posts because it is all true.

Anyway i hope Belg will fix his problem soon.

[belg]

my wife is one of those nutcases

cover with thick cover all the body , head sticks out

then steals the cover

so i end up waking up cold like hell (23° on remote, but real temp = 20 - 21)

and end up, thanks to the noise and vibration, to not be able to sleep

remote being on her side of the bed & everything

even going downstairs to sleep on the sofa, that big monster makes noise & vibration all over

ever heard of : cause of divorce: wife is an airco addict loooooooooooooool

time to find a mia noi with just a fan in the room ?

[Crossy]

Well i have 2 Daikins next to eachother, a rotary and a converter and when i m outside the rotary makes more noise then the converter-compressor.

So you can't explain what is wrong in my posts because it is all true.

OK, listen up.

1. BOTH (unless one is very old and is a [very noisy] reciprocating unit) your Daikins have rotary (vane) compressors.
2. Modern vane compressors are indeed quieter than older ones.
3. An inverter compressor varies it's speed dependant upon the required cooling as opposed to a regular unit which is 'on' or 'off'.
4. No 3 means that an inverter unit is often less intrusive (not necessarily quieter) than a non-inverter because it has a constant noise.
5. A correctly sized inverter will NOT use less power than a correctly sized conventional unit. Inverters only score when they are oversized and thus under-utilised.

It is important to get the terminology correct.

EDIT Belg, if that massive unit isn't cooling your room enough (it's running all the time) it needs looking at.

[belg]

but as OP, my initial question was: can I put a quiet samsung, daikin convertor to my indoor mitsubishi ?

i don't care if it is under the BTU rate for the room, as the wifey wants to put it on ALL NIGHT anyway

[Crossy]

and you've had the answer, yes with limitations (you won't be able to add an inverter compressor to an indoor that isn't expecting one), good luck finding a local outfit who are willing / able to make it work.

[belg]

maybe I can add another question

how long can the distance be between the indoor & outdoor unit ?

As I was thinking about asking to move the thing in the ground floor in stead of 1st floor (ground +1)

[Crossy]

how long can the distance be between the indoor & outdoor unit ?

As far as you want (within reason, but 15-20m is no issue).

The equipment installation manual (probably downloadable) will tell you what pipe sizes / gas charges you will need for the longer runs.

[Crossy]

Have you verified that the transit screws have been removed?

[Naam]

Well i have 2 Daikins next to eachother, a rotary and a converter and when i m outside the rotary makes more noise then the converter-compressor.

So you can't explain what is wrong in my posts because it is all true.

OK, listen up.

1. BOTH (unless one is very old and is a [very noisy] reciprocating unit) your Daikins have rotary (vane) compressors.
2. Modern vane compressors are indeed quieter than older ones.
3. An inverter compressor varies it's speed dependant upon the required cooling as opposed to a regular unit which is 'on' or 'off'.
4. No 3 means that an inverter unit is often less intrusive (not necessarily quieter) than a non-inverter because it has a constant noise.
5. A correctly sized inverter will NOT use less power than a correctly sized conventional unit. Inverters only score when they are oversized and thus under-utilised.

It is important to get the terminology correct.

EDIT Belg, if that massive unit isn't cooling your room enough (it's running all the time) it needs looking at.

worst case scenario is, when discussing the colours of a painting or a sunset with a blind person, when he/she starts to argue and claims the sun is blueish/green today with a slightly pinkish center.

he/she will also not believe that the compressors of converter inverter units are all rotary type and cannot discern between the noise generated by the condenser fan and the compressor.

a pure waste of time and confusing those who seek advice in this forum!

[Naam]

and you've had the answer, yes with limitations (you won't be able to add an inverter compressor to an indoor that isn't expecting one), good luck finding a local outfit who are willing / able to make it work.

the bigger problem is to buy a separate outdoor unit. best and cheapest solution is to move the noisy unit but not without checking whether the "transport nuts" have been loosened!

another noise problem might be housing vibration. had a problem with a 36k btu/h unit. a strategically placed piece of styrofoam did eliminate the vibration.

[IMHO]

costed 40.000+ new, trade in : 3000 baht...

Well, there's your problem! Go find a new aircon guy.

[IMHO]

costed 40.000+ new, trade in : 3000 baht...

Well, there's your problem! Go find a new aircon guy.

1. He's sold you a 24K BTU for 25m2, when 18K BTU would do just fine - in fact if it's not an abnormally hot room and it's only for night, 12K BTU would probably do.

2. He's sold you a commercial grade Mitsubishi Heavy A/C, instead of a domestic grade.

3. He's charged you 40K Baht for something that sold for 28-30K Baht 2 years ago (now 35K, but all prices have gone up).

4. He's completely ripping you off on trade-in price.

Suggestions:

1. Shop around for someone that will pay you decent money for your existing AC. I'd expect 20-25K Baht assuming it's in working order and not damaged/marked.

2. Add 2K-7K Baht to the trade-in value to buy yourself a nice quiet 18K BTU Daikin R-22 Inverter, or add 10K-15K Baht to buy yourself an even quieter Saijo Denki Inverter.

[h90]

costed 40.000+ new, trade in : 3000 baht...

you paid that much?

at 25 sqm you save the investment of a 5000 Baht fridge.

[h90]

and you've had the answer, yes with limitations (you won't be able to add an inverter compressor to an indoor that isn't expecting one), good luck finding a local outfit who are willing / able to make it work.

the bigger problem is to buy a separate outdoor unit. best and cheapest solution is to move the noisy unit but not without checking whether the "transport nuts" have been loosened!

another noise problem might be housing vibration. had a problem with a 36k btu/h unit. a strategically placed piece of styrofoam did eliminate the vibration.

I would suggest to put the complete unit on some rubber pads. Rubber sheet is very cheap it can be made of some waste I think and than maybe put some rubber damper between wall and mounting (not sure if that helps).

If there is enough place inside the housing, the compressor could be mounted with is rubber damper on a metal sheet and this metal sheet get another rubber parts on the bottom.

If someone need I could even make some customs damper, but I think there are enough cheap one on the market.

It won't eliminate the vibrations but reduce it.

But if possible best option is of course to place it somewhere different....