Pheu Thai threatens 'eye for an eye' as Democrats head to court

[Tatsujin]

TO THE POLITICIANS IN THAILAND:

<deleted>, grow up. You're adults (supposedly) in prominent positions there for the benefit of "the people". Can you please stop with the schoolyard games and just get on and do your jobs properly for once in your pathetic lives. You are NOT there for the benefit of ONE person. You are NOT there to line your own pockets and all those of your friends and families and other assorted business cronies. You are there to GOVERN in a responsible manner for the benefit of all whilst following the principles of "Democracy". For those of you that still don't understand this new fangled concept of "Democracy", there's quite a few interesting resources around (both printed and online) that might give you a clue what it is all about.

your wasting your breath thats exactly why people here become politicians. And that applies from local level to top. Locally if you can get elected head of village or buy it you get control of village fund and hand out favours and loans from it to your "friends" as well as tons of other scams. While their might be a village head who does not do this their also might be people who finding a 1000 baht note hand it in to police. They exist but hardly any. Then next step it to be elected (actually always bought) as part of next level of government along with your team which means you get to share out any crumbs handed down by next level up for public works and also can decide who does them. And so on up the scale it goes. Before Taksin and his vile bunch had control this was limited to a reasonable 10% or so take and could be considered as compensation. In my view the system worked quite well and was far less corrupt than west were the corruption is rampant but well hidden in so many ways. Trouble these days is due to Taksin and his gang everyone has got totally over the top greedy and no longer content with smallish tea money but are now demanding more and more. Everyone who has had any business dealings here knows you don't need to pay but if you do things work far better. I always consider it payment for express service. Land offices and other government departments are often given extra for express service but its minor and given really low pay of officials I see no problem. If someone wants to give a tip to a official to avoid you having to wait around all day and other who done simply are put at back of Q then I see no problem with that. Same with the police. Ive never seen anything very wrong in over 30 years in Asia with any of that even though it goes against hypocritical high ground of most western people here.

As I said before Taksin everything worked fine and those who had power got a reasonable cut which is opposite of ridiculous expenses, salaries, index linked pensions and all rest out so white uncorrupt scum bags get in the west. And thats not even mentioning top politicians who later get vast payments for consultancy and the rest. I much prefer the open system of tea money prevalent in Asia and particularly here in Thailand. Thailand had it right compared with other Asian countries which in my business experience were far far more corrupt than here.

So problem is not Taksin was corrupt and took the problem was he was and is just so greedy and obsessed with total control he broke all unwritten rules that made it work.

Nicely put, and I agree. Although corrupt, the system was "working" to a point right up until Thaksin took it all to new levels of greed and excess. And now everyone wants the same. Don't work for the money any more here, just extort it. Much easier.

[Tatsujin]

TO THE POLITICIANS IN THAILAND:

<deleted>, grow up. You're adults (supposedly) in prominent positions there for the benefit of "the people". Can you please stop with the schoolyard games and just get on and do your jobs properly for once in your pathetic lives. You are NOT there for the benefit of ONE person. You are NOT there to line your own pockets and all those of your friends and families and other assorted business cronies. You are there to GOVERN in a responsible manner for the benefit of all whilst following the principles of "Democracy". For those of you that still don't understand this new fangled concept of "Democracy", there's quite a few interesting resources around (both printed and online) that might give you a clue what it is all about.

While I agree whole-heartedly, don't you think you are pissing into the wind.

Yup. But I live in hope that there might actually be one person alive in Thailand who is NOT morally bankrupt.

[Emptyset]

Tarit is simply Thaksin's lackey and demonstrates over and over again his willingness to do what he's told without question. He will bend the law and apply some very creative interpretations and comes very very close to defaming opposition members with his personal attacks. On the other hand he nonchalantly dismisses any charges against the regime clan and cronies without real explanation. He's part of the Department of Justice - His boss is the AG. Remember, PTP wanted to change the law so people had to submit complaints against the government to the AG's Office first rather than direct to the Constitutional Court. Wonder why?

Now this latest threat of an eye for an eye - really shows how they respect the law and desire reconciliation.

Just two brief points: Tarit isn't just Thaksin's lackey. People complained about his partiality when he worked for the AV government. He's obviously someone that knows which side his bread is buttered, and I wouldn't actually be surprised if the next government (in the unlikely event it's not PT) kept him in place for that reason. Second, submitting complaints to the AG before the CC was supposedly already the law, which is why there was some controversy.

'“In the case where a person or a political party has committed the act under paragraph one, the person knowing of such act shall have the right to request the Attorney General to investigate the facts and submit a motion to the Constitutional Court for ordering cessation of such act without, however, prejudice to the institution of a criminal action against such person”. The Constitution Court’s own Web site clearly lists the Attorney-General as the person with the right to file the motion under Section 68.'

That's all muddled now and it seems no one really knows what the law is.

---

To the article. The only point I really want to make is that invoking section 112 against the judges is a move I find absolutely disgraceful. It just goes to prove that Pravit Rojanaphruk was right in his recent remarks that it's time to start seriously talking about PT is 'another royalist party' (not just the Democrats), not only this, but the shameful 'intangible cultural assets' bill. As Pravit said, the stuff about Thaksin being ideologically anti-royalist is complete nonsense, just PAD rumour mongering to suit their own ends. He and most of the red shirt leaders are not ideologically driven at all. They'll switch rhetoric & ideological stance according to the situation. Pravit rightly describes him Thaksin as a Machievellian who'll be a royalist one day, or a revolutionary figure another if that's what he decides that's what the situation requires.

I know a lot of red shirt sympathisers who consider themselves progressive will already know this, but those who don't really need to wake up from whatever dreamland they're still living in. I hesitate to judge, because in Goethe's words 'Conscience is the virtue of observers and not of agents of action'... being an outsider, though, allows you to speak relatively openly to people on all sides of the divide. And a recent conversation with a red shirt friend lead me to wonder if he's actually ever sat down and talked to any moderate Democrat supporter, because they might actually find their beliefs are closer than they think they are (in a positive sense). Heard the same from Democrat supporters who say the 'red shirts think this' or that, and it seems they've got that from what the media says they think, rather than from the sort of open and honest conversations you wish they could have. I'm not saying there aren't genuine differences, but I don't think there's a great deal between the moderates of both sides. It's just that it often seems they've so misread each others positions... it's actually quite sad.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Emptyset

[mikemac]

..............................."What happened was unprecedented, hence I have asked the Council of State and the legal team to study [the implications]," Yingluck said."................................................

Meaning, "We are not used to being opposed when we pull these shonky stunts."

[mikemac]

Just two brief points: Tarit isn't just Thaksin's lackey. People complained about his partiality when he worked for the AV government. He's obviously someone that knows which side his bread is buttered, and I wouldn't actually be surprised if the next government (in the unlikely event it's not PT) kept him in place for that reason. Second, submitting complaints to the AG before the CC was supposedly already the law, which is why there was some controversy.

'“In the case where a person or a political party has committed the act under paragraph one, the person knowing of such act shall have the right to request the Attorney General to investigate the facts and submit a motion to the Constitutional Court for ordering cessation of such act without, however, prejudice to the institution of a criminal action against such person”. The Constitution Court’s own Web site clearly lists the Attorney-General as the person with the right to file the motion under Section 68.'

That's all muddled now and it seems no one really knows what the law is.

---

To the article. The only point I really want to make is that invoking section 112 against the judges is a move I find absolutely disgraceful. It just goes to prove that Pravit Rojanaphruk was right in his recent remarks that it's time to start seriously talking about PT is 'another royalist party' (not just the Democrats), not only this, but the shameful 'intangible cultural assets' bill. As Pravit said, the stuff about Thaksin being ideologically anti-royalist is complete nonsense, just PAD rumour mongering to suit their own ends. He and most of the red shirt leaders are not ideologically driven at all. They'll switch rhetoric & ideological stance according to the situation. Pravit rightly describes him Thaksin as a Machievellian who'll be a royalist one day, or a revolutionary figure another if that's what he decides that's what the situation requires.

I know a lot of red shirt sympathisers who consider themselves progressive will already know this, but those who don't really need to wake up from whatever dreamland they're still living in. I hesitate to judge, because in Goethe's words 'Conscience is the virtue of observers and not of agents of action'... being an outsider, though, allows you to speak relatively openly to people on all sides of the divide. And a recent conversation with a red shirt friend lead me to wonder if he's actually ever sat down and talked to any moderate Democrat supporter, because they might actually find their beliefs are closer than they think they are (in a positive sense). Heard the same from Democrat supporters who say the 'red shirts think this' or that, and it seems they've got that from what the media says they think, rather than from the sort of open and honest conversations you wish they could have. I'm not saying there aren't genuine differences, but I don't think there's a great deal between the moderates of both sides. It's just that it often seems they've so misread each others positions... it's actually quite sad.

I read your post right up until this bit -

"And a recent conversation with a red shirt friend.............................."

Then I felt the way I do when I spend 3 days downloading a 1.5 gig movie only to find I cannot play it, pissed off.

[ballpoint]

TO THE POLITICIANS IN THAILAND:

<deleted>, grow up. You're adults (supposedly) in prominent positions there for the benefit of "the people". Can you please stop with the schoolyard games and just get on and do your jobs properly for once in your pathetic lives. You are NOT there for the benefit of ONE person. You are NOT there to line your own pockets and all those of your friends and families and other assorted business cronies. You are there to GOVERN in a responsible manner for the benefit of all whilst following the principles of "Democracy". For those of you that still don't understand this new fangled concept of "Democracy", there's quite a few interesting resources around (both printed and online) that might give you a clue what it is all about.

While I agree whole-heartedly, don't you think you are pissing into the wind.

Yup. But I live in hope that there might actually be one person alive in Thailand who is NOT morally bankrupt.

Maybe if you offered a cash prize they'd come forward?

[Emptyset]

Just two brief points: Tarit isn't just Thaksin's lackey. People complained about his partiality when he worked for the AV government. He's obviously someone that knows which side his bread is buttered, and I wouldn't actually be surprised if the next government (in the unlikely event it's not PT) kept him in place for that reason. Second, submitting complaints to the AG before the CC was supposedly already the law, which is why there was some controversy.

'“In the case where a person or a political party has committed the act under paragraph one, the person knowing of such act shall have the right to request the Attorney General to investigate the facts and submit a motion to the Constitutional Court for ordering cessation of such act without, however, prejudice to the institution of a criminal action against such person”. The Constitution Court’s own Web site clearly lists the Attorney-General as the person with the right to file the motion under Section 68.'

That's all muddled now and it seems no one really knows what the law is.

---

To the article. The only point I really want to make is that invoking section 112 against the judges is a move I find absolutely disgraceful. It just goes to prove that Pravit Rojanaphruk was right in his recent remarks that it's time to start seriously talking about PT is 'another royalist party' (not just the Democrats), not only this, but the shameful 'intangible cultural assets' bill. As Pravit said, the stuff about Thaksin being ideologically anti-royalist is complete nonsense, just PAD rumour mongering to suit their own ends. He and most of the red shirt leaders are not ideologically driven at all. They'll switch rhetoric & ideological stance according to the situation. Pravit rightly describes him Thaksin as a Machievellian who'll be a royalist one day, or a revolutionary figure another if that's what he decides that's what the situation requires.

I know a lot of red shirt sympathisers who consider themselves progressive will already know this, but those who don't really need to wake up from whatever dreamland they're still living in. I hesitate to judge, because in Goethe's words 'Conscience is the virtue of observers and not of agents of action'... being an outsider, though, allows you to speak relatively openly to people on all sides of the divide. And a recent conversation with a red shirt friend lead me to wonder if he's actually ever sat down and talked to any moderate Democrat supporter, because they might actually find their beliefs are closer than they think they are (in a positive sense). Heard the same from Democrat supporters who say the 'red shirts think this' or that, and it seems they've got that from what the media says they think, rather than from the sort of open and honest conversations you wish they could have. I'm not saying there aren't genuine differences, but I don't think there's a great deal between the moderates of both sides. It's just that it often seems they've so misread each others positions... it's actually quite sad.

I read your post right up until this bit -

"And a recent conversation with a red shirt friend.............................."

Then I felt the way I do when I spend 3 days downloading a 1.5 gig movie only to find I cannot play it, pissed off.

Why, shouldn't people talk to red shirts? I probably needn't have spent a paragraph on that as it's nothing I've not said many times before. I realize I'm probably boring people to death at this point. Just frustrates when people seem to be talking past each other. I probably shouldn't even get so irritated by it as I'm not Thai, but nevertheless... lol.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Emptyset

[slapout]

Mike in you comment to Emptyset (post 35) I had to chuckle, as setting down and listening to the so called 'opposition' may find a lot of agreement.

Thai politics seems to be populated by a majority who think and act like life is a buffet line and they piss in the dishes that do not suit their personal taste. This type of thinking should not be tolerated and the resulting action must be dealt with promptly and harshly, if the nation is going to grow, prosper, and the people live in harmoney with one another.

[tingtongteesood]

'Sangiam claimed the judges had violated Article 112 of the Criminal Code in conducting their judicial review of the Senate-change bill during the process to seek royal approval.'

TOTAL RUBBISH !!! If anyone offended the monarchy then it was Yingluck for ramming legislation through in the middle of the night and rushing it for royal approval DESPITE KNOWING that this ruling was due. PT are trying to twist the facts to suit themselves. Got news for you idiots, the facts are the facts and they can't be changed. All PT MP's should be imprisoned for offending the monarchy by treating the country and its citizens with utter contempt !

[Dap]

TO THE POLITICIANS IN THAILAND:

<deleted>, grow up. You're adults (supposedly) in prominent positions there for the benefit of "the people". Can you please stop with the schoolyard games and just get on and do your jobs properly for once in your pathetic lives. You are NOT there for the benefit of ONE person. You are NOT there to line your own pockets and all those of your friends and families and other assorted business cronies. You are there to GOVERN in a responsible manner for the benefit of all whilst following the principles of "Democracy". For those of you that still don't understand this new fangled concept of "Democracy", there's quite a few interesting resources around (both printed and online) that might give you a clue what it is all about.

Well said

[Mister Fixit]

Woo-hoo, things are getting tasty!

[gerry1011]

Hmmm So they blame the Dems ..... talk of an eye for an eye .... but what exactly are they going to do to the Dems?

You will be among the very first to cry fool when they do something. Whatever that may be...

An eye for an eye... Yes, sure. Why would they let the Dems block the whole country and overthrow an elected government through series of dirty tricks without responding to the attacks. Its just the normal thing to do.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JRSoul]

Hmmm So they blame the Dems ..... talk of an eye for an eye .... but what exactly are they going to do to the Dems?

You will be among the very first to cry fool when they do something. Whatever that may be...

An eye for an eye... Yes, sure. Why would they let the Dems block the whole country and overthrow an elected government through series of dirty tricks without responding to the attacks. Its just the normal thing to do.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Governments threatening frivolous and baseless lawsuits is the normal thing to do? Where (except Thailand)?

[Crossy]

A post discussing His Majesty's role removed, any further speculation on this subject will net holidays.

[theslime]

both sides are corrupt, taksin is just moving the goal posts,