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Thinking of driving a Thai car to Vietnam? Forget it! Read this article


Tomtomtom69

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While I know those are common wealth countries, ironically most of those countries in N/A I.E. Canada are also LHD though.

Basically, it's the British vs rest of world, with smaller opposing neigbors forced into local customs smile.png

Agreed, though the Japanese (where a good % of cars originate from) might have something to say about that wai.gif

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While I know those are common wealth countries, ironically most of those countries in N/A I.E. Canada are also LHD though.

Basically, it's the British vs rest of world, with smaller opposing neigbors forced into local customs smile.png

Agreed, though the Japanese (where a good % of cars originate from) might have something to say about that wai.gif

It was the Japanese who assumed Thailand would drive on the left.

Canada used to at one point or another.....early US cars were RHD - look at Laurel and Hardy films.

Australia stipulates that after a certain period of time vehicles must be converted to RHD, but I would think that Vietnam's rule is going to be against the spirit if not the law of ASEAN.

No country in Europe - as far as I'm aware gives a monkey's as which side the driver sits on - in fact in Italy and Switzerland a lot of the larger trucks used to prefer RHD -in particular on mouton routes.

Edited by wilcopops
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^<deleted>?? Who gives a rats tail what happened in medieval Europe, this is today the 21st century and you just served to prove my point. I'm not even going to debate the reasons it was changed but it was common sense and the rest of the world, en mass, followed suit. JFYI it's never been the correct side, it's just been the side that was chosen until common sense took over.. The common sense applied was automobiles requiring shifting in their early development and most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous.

^^It is very dangerous driving on the opposite side of the road from the driver placement, just because it's done does not mean it should be done.. Ever driven in China? It is unimaginable to drive there with a RHD car and the regs for foreigners they're even worse in some senses and that's with a LHD drive car not to mention the craziness of the drivers.

"most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous." That's a good point to debate.

You talk about today being the 21st century....aren't 9 out of 10 cars fitted with automatic transmission?

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^<deleted>?? Who gives a rats tail what happened in medieval Europe, this is today the 21st century and you just served to prove my point. I'm not even going to debate the reasons it was changed but it was common sense and the rest of the world, en mass, followed suit. JFYI it's never been the correct side, it's just been the side that was chosen until common sense took over.. The common sense applied was automobiles requiring shifting in their early development and most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous.

^^It is very dangerous driving on the opposite side of the road from the driver placement, just because it's done does not mean it should be done.. Ever driven in China? It is unimaginable to drive there with a RHD car and the regs for foreigners they're even worse in some senses and that's with a LHD drive car not to mention the craziness of the drivers.

"most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous." That's a good point to debate.

You talk about today being the 21st century....aren't 9 out of 10 cars fitted with automatic transmission?

Hehe, I have never felt like I put myself into a compromising situation switching between P, R and D :P

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^<deleted>?? Who gives a rats tail what happened in medieval Europe, this is today the 21st century and you just served to prove my point. I'm not even going to debate the reasons it was changed but it was common sense and the rest of the world, en mass, followed suit. JFYI it's never been the correct side, it's just been the side that was chosen until common sense took over.. The common sense applied was automobiles requiring shifting in their early development and most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous.

^^It is very dangerous driving on the opposite side of the road from the driver placement, just because it's done does not mean it should be done.. Ever driven in China? It is unimaginable to drive there with a RHD car and the regs for foreigners they're even worse in some senses and that's with a LHD drive car not to mention the craziness of the drivers.

"most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous." That's a good point to debate.

You talk about today being the 21st century....aren't 9 out of 10 cars fitted with automatic transmission?

Highly unlikely 9 out of 10, not sure where you got that figure from and so what? That's still a veeery high number of manuals world wide and BTW manuals are making a come back most recently especially here in the states as motors get smaller and auto boxes get more complicated and expensive.

Anyone familiar with the Mercedes 190E and it's street stock, touring car, racing heritage? The Merc engineers specifically made what was considered "race gearing" for LHD cars and for their street versions of the same car which put reverse gear over above 1st gear so it was out of the way when shifting up through the gears and less likely to make a mistake, it was called a "dog leg" gear box. Now switch that to a RHD car and it is opposite which is obviously a problem as they saw it. What do you suppose they did that for? The German engineers are pretty clever, likely more clever then most on here..

More cars with this shift pattern which looses all of it's advantage on RHD cars...

Dog leg layout gearboxes are desirable on performance cars because in road racing more frequent shifting occurs from second to third than from first to second gear.

Examples of cars that have used this pattern for performance reasons include the BMW M535, Early 635CSi (non-US) and (non-US) M3 E30, BMW 2002 Tii and Turbo, Fiat Dino 2.4 (ZF Box), Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16 and 2.5-16, Ferrari 308 GTB/GTS, Ferrari Testarossa, Porsche 914, early 911, 924 Turbo (all featuring Getrag gearboxes), Cosworth Vega, Porsche 928, Talbot Sunbeam Lotus, Vauxhall Firenza HPF, the Lamborghini Countach, the Maserati Biturbo, and the De Tomaso Pantera.

Despite the performance benefits, non-performance-oriented cars available with the dog-leg shift pattern were produced. Examples include the Subaru 360, Datsun 160J Hardtop SSS, 74–77Datsun 610 SSS, 78–80 Datsun 200sx, 1980 Datsun 210 Wagon (built during the 210/310 crossover), 78–80 Datsun 510, Citroën 2CV, Mercedes 190, Mercedes-Benz 200D, Mercedes-Benz 300CE, Mercedes-Benz 320CE, Mercedes-Benz E320 sedan -94 and the 1976–77 Oldsmobile Cutlass or Pontiac LeMans with the 260 V8, the 76–77 Chevrolet Vega or Pontiac Astre, 76–79Chevrolet Monza or Buick Skyhawk or Oldsmobile Starfire, BMW E21 and the 77–79 Pontiac Sunbird. The early model Renault 4 had a distinctive 'umbrella handle' dog-leg shift, which proved ideal for urban driving, though the shift was later changed to the 'conventional' pattern.

125px-Manual_Dogleg.svg.pngDog leg/ typical 125px-Manual_Layout.svg.png

Edited by WarpSpeed
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^<deleted>?? Who gives a rats tail what happened in medieval Europe, this is today the 21st century and you just served to prove my point. I'm not even going to debate the reasons it was changed but it was common sense and the rest of the world, en mass, followed suit. JFYI it's never been the correct side, it's just been the side that was chosen until common sense took over.. The common sense applied was automobiles requiring shifting in their early development and most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous.

^^It is very dangerous driving on the opposite side of the road from the driver placement, just because it's done does not mean it should be done.. Ever driven in China? It is unimaginable to drive there with a RHD car and the regs for foreigners they're even worse in some senses and that's with a LHD drive car not to mention the craziness of the drivers.

"most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous." That's a good point to debate.

You talk about today being the 21st century....aren't 9 out of 10 cars fitted with automatic transmission?

Hehe, I have never felt like I put myself into a compromising situation switching between P, R and D tongue.png

Wuss! Real men drive manuals..

Edited by WarpSpeed
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^<deleted>?? Who gives a rats tail what happened in medieval Europe, this is today the 21st century and you just served to prove my point. I'm not even going to debate the reasons it was changed but it was common sense and the rest of the world, en mass, followed suit. JFYI it's never been the correct side, it's just been the side that was chosen until common sense took over.. The common sense applied was automobiles requiring shifting in their early development and most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous.

^^It is very dangerous driving on the opposite side of the road from the driver placement, just because it's done does not mean it should be done.. Ever driven in China? It is unimaginable to drive there with a RHD car and the regs for foreigners they're even worse in some senses and that's with a LHD drive car not to mention the craziness of the drivers.

"most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous." That's a good point to debate.

You talk about today being the 21st century....aren't 9 out of 10 cars fitted with automatic transmission?

In the US yes but not for much of the rest of the world :

http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/americans-driving-stick-shift-article-1.1072784

Real drivers still prefer Manual (stick shift) smile.png

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^<deleted>?? Who gives a rats tail what happened in medieval Europe, this is today the 21st century and you just served to prove my point. I'm not even going to debate the reasons it was changed but it was common sense and the rest of the world, en mass, followed suit. JFYI it's never been the correct side, it's just been the side that was chosen until common sense took over.. The common sense applied was automobiles requiring shifting in their early development and most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous.

^^It is very dangerous driving on the opposite side of the road from the driver placement, just because it's done does not mean it should be done.. Ever driven in China? It is unimaginable to drive there with a RHD car and the regs for foreigners they're even worse in some senses and that's with a LHD drive car not to mention the craziness of the drivers.

"most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous." That's a good point to debate.

You talk about today being the 21st century....aren't 9 out of 10 cars fitted with automatic transmission?

Highly unlikely 9 out of 10, not sure where you got that figure from and so what? That's still a veeery high number of manuals world wide and BTW manuals are making a come back most recently especially here in the states as motors get smaller and auto boxes get more complicated and expensive.

Anyone familiar with the Mercedes 190E and it's street stock, touring car, racing heritage? The Merc engineers specifically made what was considered "race gearing" for LHD cars and for their street versions of the same car which put reverse gear over above 1st gear so it was out of the way when shifting up through the gears and less likely to make a mistake, it was called a "dog leg" gear box. Now switch that to a RHD car and it is opposite which is obviously a problem as they saw it. What do you suppose they did that for? The German engineers are pretty clever, likely more clever then most on here..

More cars with this shift pattern which looses all of it's advantage on RHD cars...

Dog leg layout gearboxes are desirable on performance cars because in road racing more frequent shifting occurs from second to third than from first to second gear.

Examples of cars that have used this pattern for performance reasons include the BMW M535, Early 635CSi (non-US) and (non-US) M3 E30, BMW 2002 Tii and Turbo, Fiat Dino 2.4 (ZF Box), Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16 and 2.5-16, Ferrari 308 GTB/GTS, Ferrari Testarossa, Porsche 914, early 911, 924 Turbo (all featuring Getrag gearboxes), Cosworth Vega, Porsche 928, Talbot Sunbeam Lotus, Vauxhall Firenza HPF, the Lamborghini Countach, the Maserati Biturbo, and the De Tomaso Pantera.

Despite the performance benefits, non-performance-oriented cars available with the dog-leg shift pattern were produced. Examples include the Subaru 360, Datsun 160J Hardtop SSS, 74–77Datsun 610 SSS, 78–80 Datsun 200sx, 1980 Datsun 210 Wagon (built during the 210/310 crossover), 78–80 Datsun 510, Citroën 2CV, Mercedes 190, Mercedes-Benz 200D, Mercedes-Benz 300CE, Mercedes-Benz 320CE, Mercedes-Benz E320 sedan -94 and the 1976–77 Oldsmobile Cutlass or Pontiac LeMans with the 260 V8, the 76–77 Chevrolet Vega or Pontiac Astre, 76–79Chevrolet Monza or Buick Skyhawk or Oldsmobile Starfire, BMW E21 and the 77–79 Pontiac Sunbird. The early model Renault 4 had a distinctive 'umbrella handle' dog-leg shift, which proved ideal for urban driving, though the shift was later changed to the 'conventional' pattern.

125px-Manual_Dogleg.svg.pngDog leg/ typical 125px-Manual_Layout.svg.png

of course not any more though....sequential and paddle changes are more and more the preferred mode.

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While I know those are common wealth countries, ironically most of those countries in N/A I.E. Canada are also LHD though.

Basically, it's the British vs rest of world, with smaller opposing neigbors forced into local customs smile.png

Agreed, though the Japanese (where a good % of cars originate from) might have something to say about that wai.gif

It was the Japanese who assumed Thailand would drive on the left.

Canada used to at one point or another.....early US cars were RHD - look at Laurel and Hardy films.

Australia stipulates that after a certain period of time vehicles must be converted to RHD, but I would think that Vietnam's rule is going to be against the spirit if not the law of ASEAN.

No country in Europe - as far as I'm aware gives a monkey's as which side the driver sits on - in fact in Italy and Switzerland a lot of the larger trucks used to prefer RHD -in particular on mouton routes.

The Swiss should have the Center Steer, to suit their cheating ways.

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"most of the worlds population being right handed shifting with the left is uncoordinated and hazardous." That's a good point to debate.

You talk about today being the 21st century....aren't 9 out of 10 cars fitted with automatic transmission?

Highly unlikely 9 out of 10, not sure where you got that figure from and so what? That's still a veeery high number of manuals world wide and BTW manuals are making a come back most recently especially here in the states as motors get smaller and auto boxes get more complicated and expensive.

Anyone familiar with the Mercedes 190E and it's street stock, touring car, racing heritage? The Merc engineers specifically made what was considered "race gearing" for LHD cars and for their street versions of the same car which put reverse gear over above 1st gear so it was out of the way when shifting up through the gears and less likely to make a mistake, it was called a "dog leg" gear box. Now switch that to a RHD car and it is opposite which is obviously a problem as they saw it. What do you suppose they did that for? The German engineers are pretty clever, likely more clever then most on here..

More cars with this shift pattern which looses all of it's advantage on RHD cars...

Dog leg layout gearboxes are desirable on performance cars because in road racing more frequent shifting occurs from second to third than from first to second gear.

Examples of cars that have used this pattern for performance reasons include the BMW M535, Early 635CSi (non-US) and (non-US) M3 E30, BMW 2002 Tii and Turbo, Fiat Dino 2.4 (ZF Box), Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16 and 2.5-16, Ferrari 308 GTB/GTS, Ferrari Testarossa, Porsche 914, early 911, 924 Turbo (all featuring Getrag gearboxes), Cosworth Vega, Porsche 928, Talbot Sunbeam Lotus, Vauxhall Firenza HPF, the Lamborghini Countach, the Maserati Biturbo, and the De Tomaso Pantera.

Despite the performance benefits, non-performance-oriented cars available with the dog-leg shift pattern were produced. Examples include the Subaru 360, Datsun 160J Hardtop SSS, 74–77Datsun 610 SSS, 78–80 Datsun 200sx, 1980 Datsun 210 Wagon (built during the 210/310 crossover), 78–80 Datsun 510, Citroën 2CV, Mercedes 190, Mercedes-Benz 200D, Mercedes-Benz 300CE, Mercedes-Benz 320CE, Mercedes-Benz E320 sedan -94 and the 1976–77 Oldsmobile Cutlass or Pontiac LeMans with the 260 V8, the 76–77 Chevrolet Vega or Pontiac Astre, 76–79Chevrolet Monza or Buick Skyhawk or Oldsmobile Starfire, BMW E21 and the 77–79 Pontiac Sunbird. The early model Renault 4 had a distinctive 'umbrella handle' dog-leg shift, which proved ideal for urban driving, though the shift was later changed to the 'conventional' pattern.

125px-Manual_Dogleg.svg.pngDog leg/ typical 125px-Manual_Layout.svg.png

of course not any more though....sequential and paddle changes are more and more the preferred mode.

Christ! Those aren't manuals and are not on the average grocery getter either so not really part of the equation as they are the extreme not the norm.. Manuals are still the same and quite popular, getting more so all the time with the advent of econoboxes.

Edited by WarpSpeed
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Regardless of what side you like to drive on, ASEAN will have a large amount of roads (majority?) that drive on the left - it will be a mixed community and there will be little or no problem.

I think anyone who has witnessed the amount of TWO_WAY traffic between UK and the continent will be aware of that.

If the community is going to work, then trade must be allowed to flow and Vietnam's measure is frankly quite ridiculous ands will inevitably have to change if they are to benefit from the free trade zone.

It is worth noting than when ASEAN get their act together it will be possible to drive to Australia (yes, I'm aware that requires ferries!!), and the route will be drive-on-the-left all the way to Tasmania.

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Based on vehicle numbers, my guess is that Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia and Brunei form a majority in ASEAN when it comes to which side of the road people drive on.

Well those numbers are incorrect..

Edited by WarpSpeed
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Based on vehicle numbers, my guess is that Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia and Brunei form a majority in ASEAN when it comes to which side of the road people drive on.

Well those numbers are incorrect..

I'm guessing you have some information to back that up?

Edited by wilcopops
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I had heard that China was paying for and indeed building many news roads through to the south and beyond to build direct access due to their being a part of ASEAN, I see now that it appears they are not part of it at this time as Bry states, I wonder about their future? In that case at the moment there probably are more RHD drivers but in the larger scheme of things especially with China building the roads and highway systems it's still going to be a larger issue for the smaller RHD countries being left behind as China will probably have similar restrictions of some measure, they already have quite a few in place.

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  • 11 months later...

Motor Bikes dont have LH or RH drive issue: but its still impossible to take a foreign reg motorbike into Vietnam.
There used to be a ban on large bikes over 185cc but now there are an inceasing no of big bikes in Vietnam.

I just wonder whether It will be possoble to take my motor bike into Vietnam.

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  • 2 months later...

I had heard that China was paying for and indeed building many news roads through to the south and beyond to build direct access due to their being a part of ASEAN, I see now that it appears they are not part of it at this time as Bry states, I wonder about their future? In that case at the moment there probably are more RHD drivers but in the larger scheme of things especially with China building the roads and highway systems it's still going to be a larger issue for the smaller RHD countries being left behind as China will probably have similar restrictions of some measure, they already have quite a few in place.

China has no special restrictions regarding the entry of foreign registered RHD vehicles per se; it's just that most foreign registered vehicles will need to go on a tour or travel with a guide, LHD or RHD. Even it's own territories of Hong Kong and Macau drive on the left and have mostly RHD, the opposite of the mainland. Mainland vehicles need an expensive permit and special number plate to enter Hong Kong and Macau and vice versa. The idea behind this has nothing to do with the steering wheel, but rather controlling the otherwise large number of vehicles, particularly in the mainland to HK/Macau direction that would occur otherwise. This is in addition to the restrictions those territories have on the entry of mainland Chinese citizens to their jurisdictions.

China has never been particularly open to foreign registered vehicles (for some unknown reason) and currently, with the exception of HK and Macau registered vehicles who, apart from needing a special number plate and an expensive permit, are thus allowed to travel anywhere in the country without further restrictions (except perhaps to Tibet, though not sure), foreign registered vehicles, even from neighboring countries are NOT allowed to travel very far inside China, LHD, RHD whatever, it makes no difference. This could change in the near future, but as I understand it, the current restrictions are as follows:

Vietnamese cars/trucks/buses. In general can't enter China at all. Reason(s)? Amongst others, bad relationships between Vietnam and China and Vietnamese restrictions on the entry of Chinese vehicles into their territory. In general, no vehicles larger than a bicycle can cross between Vietnam and China directly. The only occasional exceptions are pre-registered trucks, but even these vehicles generally only travel across the border to load/unload goods onto locally registered trucks before returning back to their country of origin. The truck depots where these exchanges take place are usually within only a short distance from the border. According to the Greater Mekong Sub-region or GMS Agreement, of which both Vietnam and China's Guangxi and Yunnan provinces are signatories, there is supposedly an agreement allowing Vietnamese and Chinese trucks to travel along two routes without changing vehicles, namely Kunming to Haiphong and Guangzhou to Haiphong, but in practice this is not allowed. Having said that, I haven't been to those parts of China or Vietnam (except Kunming) since around 2011 so things may have changed, though I doubt it. When I was in Kunming last year on two occasions, I didn't spot a single foreign registered vehicle except Lao registered buses plying the Kunming to Luang Prabang or Kunming to Vientiane routes. Private Vietnamese registered vehicles? Forget it. Despite lots of Vietnamese signs on the Chinese section of the expressway leading up from Hekou to Mengzi (the first section up to Kunming), you'll never see a Vietnamese vehicle using that road because they're not allowed in.

Lao cars/trucks/buses. Can enter China at the main Boten/Mohan crossing and travel as far as Jinghong without restrictions. Buses can travel up to Kunming as part of a bilateral agreement. There is now a second border crossing in Phongsali that is reportedly international, but it's unclear if Lao vehicles can travel across it and if so, probably only within the border area. Previously Lao vehicles could travel all over Yunnan and to other provinces with permission requested at each provincial boundary. It appears that this may still be possible with some pre-planning, although it's likely these restrictions will be lifted in time, at least allowing travel throughout Yunnan and Guangxi as per the original GMS agreement. By contrast, Chinese cars can enter Laos and travel throughout the country, if they enter through the main international crossing at Boten or perhaps at the new one at Ban Lanteuy/Phongsali. They can also enter Thailand, but NOT Vietnam.

Myanmar cars/trucks/buses. Can enter China at Ruili/Muse but only for short trips near the border for a period of up to a day or perhaps a week (not sure about this) with minimal paperwork if the driver is Burmese since that border is not yet an international crossing. Burmese registered vehicles can't leave the vicinity of the border though and thus can't travel outside of Jiegao, the border area originally part of Myanmar but handed to China some years back. Therefore, even travel to Ruili must be done only in Chinese registered vehicles. Chinese vehicles are similarly restricted inside Myanmar and can only travel within the Mu-se economic zone and most vehicles are locally registered 云N from Dehong prefecture, likely meaning that vehicles from other parts of Yunnan or the rest of the country are generally not allowed to leave China, even though they would only be travelling within the Myanmar border area.

India. Forget it, vehicles can't cross anywhere in either direction, and generally speaking neither can individuals of any nationality, including Chinese and Indian.

Pakistan. China possibly allows vehicles from Pakistan to enter their common border but probably restricts how far they can go. Buses and trucks have slightly more freedom than private cars I could imagine, but again can probably only travel a short distance inside the country.

Russia/Kazakhstan/KyrgyzstanMongolia and all other neighboring countries: Most likely restrictions on how far inside China they can drive. Might not be allowed to cross at all, or only to the border town, especially in the case of Russia/China crossings, many of which aren't even connected by road (except ice roads during winter) anyway as the Heilongjiang/Amur river forms most of the border between the two countries. Apparently Russia doesn't allow any private vehicles to drive across their border directly from China and they must be carried over by train or truck.

On your point about Chinese assistance in road construction in neighboring countries, this has been quite limited. Attempts to build infrastructure in Vietnam have mostly failed due to a breakdown in bilateral relations and Vietnamese fears of Chinese influence. The situation is quite similar in Myanmar, combined with security concerns due to widespread fighting and instability in Chinese border regions. India is a no-go due to border disputes, while Pakistan is OK but they had a major earthquake that basically destroyed 2 years of Chinese work on the Karakorum highway a few years ago. Only Laos has had significant Chinese road investment but the Thais and Vietnamese have equally built a lot of roads/bridges too. Most Chinese built roads are only in the border regions close to China and for their benefit.

Laos already allows vehicles from most countries in, RHD/LHD, all is fine. Only local registration requires the steering wheel to be LHD (except embassy vehicles which can be RHD), but for tourism or trade purposes it doesn't matter.

Edited by Tomtomtom69
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  • 10 months later...

For what it is worth.

In forty years driving in the UK and on the continent in both LHD and RHD cars, arriving in the UK driving on the left came kind of natural.

Arriving on the continent the first hour I had to repeat to myself, drive on the right, <deleted>.

No difference LHD or RHD vehicle.

Now driving in Thailand for ten years, no problem.

And I come from a country, NL, where they tend to drivebon the right in LHD vehicles.

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Same argument applies that most people are Rt side dominant so your dominant hand should be in control of the vehicle Ie steering, changing gear with the left hand requires no great skill or co-ordination as a very large percentage of the world can demonstrate

oh by the way reference using your left hand to steer and control a vehicle by the logic you have spouted that should be dangerous and un co-ordinated as for the vast majority of the time most peoples weaker or less dominant side is in control, I don't really think you thought that through

I don't have any figures to back it up but the vast majority of UK drivers drive manual whilst the vast majority of US don't or cant strange that....

Very true.
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