Reading Thai Text Without Knowing All The Words

[sking_is_leaving]

I am learning to read Thai. I think I have learned all of the rules. However, I still find that I cannot read passages of Thai text as I often cannot determine where syllables end and begin. I believe that:

เ แ ไ ใ โ can only occur at the beginning of syllables

ะ ำ can only occur at the end of syllables

า cannot occur at the beginning of syllables

ห ฮ ฌ cannot occur at the end of syllables

ัั must have a consonant before and after

กร คร ขร ตร ปร พร กล คล ขล ปล พล กว คว ขว are the only valid initial consonant clusters

I have not seen it written that you cannot read Thai without knowing the words, though it seems that way. Missing vowel symbols may be one of the main problems. Are there any other rules which I need to be aware of, or any other tell-tale signs to look out for which would help me to read text that I don’t know.

Thanks

[briley]

you've got to about where I am. Only one other 'rule' I can think of. The last consonant can't have a vowel with it.

Oh and ห at the beginning is a tone indicator and not sounded - makes the next consonant high class?

Using that I can read almost anything.

Don't understand it .............

Except I followed a sign for lift the otherday and found, a lift so it is useful.

[skylar]

This is the weirdest thread on the Thai language that I've seen in a long time.

[Totster]

This is the weirdest thread on the Thai language that I've seen in a long time.

It doesn't seem weird to me... care to explain ?

totster

[skylar]

It's just odd that someone would take great pains to discover the way vowels work when there is already a host of excellent books on the topic. Acquisition of this language needs not be so time consuming.

[Richard W]

I have not seen it written that you cannot read Thai without knowing the words, though it seems that way.

Thai text lay-out programs include dictionaries as standard for just this reason.

Missing vowel symbols may be one of the main problems. Are there any other rules which I need to be aware of, or any other tell-tale signs to look out for which would help me to read text that I don’t know.

The vowel sign อื and combination เอิ have to be followed by a consonant in the same syllable, as does a consonant with maitaikhu, e.g. เป็น. You missed out the clusters with silent second letters: สร and ศร and the word จริง (arguably plus the two-syllable word เจริญ). You also have to be on the look-out for clusters in loanwords - แฟลต can be baffling if you don't recognise it as English. Watch for ร์ as a hint that the word may be English. No word in the dictionary begins รร, but there are supposed to be twins known as รรรรร and รรรรรร.

[Rikker]

I was given the รรรรรร puzzler by students in an English class once, but I thought it was just a joke. Never heard about twins, though. From what I was told, the six-letter version is pronounced ระ-รัน-รอน . How is the five letter person supposedly pronounced? I suppose there are multiple readings of both.

[sking_is_leaving]

Thanks for all the responses.

Richard, by text-layout programs do you mean Quark etc?

I will pay attention to loan words and be wise to silent ร consonants in clusters.

Otherwise, it seems that I will need to increase the number of words I know in order to improve my reading ability.

Thanks again

[sking_is_leaving]

Thanks for all the responses.

Richard, by text-layout programs do you mean Quark etc?

I will pay attention to loan words and be wise to silent ร consonants in clusters.

Otherwise, it seems that I will need to increase the number of words I know in order to improve my reading ability.

Thanks again

[Trenty]

Thanks for all the responses.

Richard, by text-layout programs do you mean Quark etc?

I will pay attention to loan words and be wise to silent ร consonants in clusters.

Otherwise, it seems that I will need to increase the number of words I know in order to improve my reading ability.

Thanks again

has thailand ever had any snow from Trenty

[Richard W]

Richard, by text-layout programs do you mean Quark etc?

Just stuff like browsers and memo-publishers like Word. Just google for

line-breaking Thai

and see what comes up.

Otherwise, it seems that I will need to increase the number of words I know in order to improve my reading ability.

You can also use rules such as 'native-only and Pali/Sanskrit-only consonants do not mix', but you are hit by the law of diminishing returns. Also, some of the 'native only' vowels do very occasionally occur in words of Pali or Sanskrit origin, just as they very occasionally acquire tone marks. You also get historically perverse spellings like ฆ่า and เฒ่า, thought these don't affect syllable breaking.

[Richard W]

I was given the รรรรรร puzzler by students in an English class once, but I thought it was just a joke. Never heard about twins, though. From what I was told, the six-letter version is pronounced ระ-รัน-รอน . How is the five letter person supposedly pronounced? I suppose there are multiple readings of both.

See post no. 8 in the thread How do Thais learn to pronounce?.

[skylar]

Ah, I see what you're looking for. สัญญา - promise is pronounced sun-ya, even though ญ is yor-ying. The ญ is an n sound with the Thai words for editor and account (as in accountant or bank account) for example. Another nifty one to look out for.

[Richard W]

Ah, I see what you're looking for. สัญญา - promise is pronounced sun-ya, even though ญ is yor-ying.

Why the 'even though'? The original function of ญ is to represent the sound of Spanish ñ, but the Central Thais have forgotten how to pronounce it (and never could manage it at the end of a syllable).

[skylar]

Ah, I see what you're looking for. สัญญา - promise is pronounced sun-ya, even though ญ is yor-ying.

Why the 'even though'? The original function of ญ is to represent the sound of Spanish ñ, but the Central Thais have forgotten how to pronounce it (and never could manage it at the end of a syllable).

Well, the 'even though' is because the same consonant has two different interpretations in contemporary Thai language. When ญ is hooked onto the end of a syllable, it's a n sound, an at the beginning of a syllable it is a y sound, being simple and untechnical. What was in the past is no longer the case.

[Richard W]

Well, the 'even though' is because the same consonant has two different interpretations in contemporary Thai language. When ญ is hooked onto the end of a syllable, it's a n sound, an at the beginning of a syllable it is a y sound, being simple and untechnical.

In the traditional pronunciation, at most 10 consonants have the same sound at the beginning and end, so its normal for the sounds to be different. Views may differ as to which the 10 are. I favour those in groups A, B and C. Others would replace group A with group D, conceivably adding group E because of words like บัณฑิต. Some reject group C.

A: ก ฏ ต ป

B: ง ณ น ม

C: ย ว

D: ฎ ด บ

E: ฑ

If you include English loanwords you might just manage to justify adding group F, though the normal final sound of ล is /n/ and of ส is the same as of ด

F: ซฟสล

[skylar]

You're quite right. I always thought ญ was an anomaly because when it was used in the same word with two different pronounciations but it isn't an anomaly at all, thinking about ผลลัพธ์. I didn't explain myself properly. I love this language

[phibunmike]

This is the weirdest thread on the Thai language that I've seen in a long time.

It doesn't seem weird to me... care to explain ?

totster

I can just imagine these guys sitting on the train reading a Thai newspaper but not understanding a word.... - that's what's weird...

Honestly though I do get the point, it helps if you can skip some words you don't know and then perhaps understand at least some of a sentence.

[boxig]

I spoke Thai before I knew to read even one word. Not only it is possible, it makes it easier to learn reading after you know to speak, and if you learn to speak first and then to read late, you will be done quicker then learnig both speak and read together.

At least that's my opinion.

[Johpa]

I spoke Thai before I knew to read even one word. Not only it is possible, it makes it easier to learn reading after you know to speak, and if you learn to speak first and then to read late, you will be done quicker then learnig both speak and read together.

At least that's my opinion.

First, I do not believe one is ever "done" learning a language. I started learning Thai in university in 1981. I am still learning, and alas, still forgetting and needing to relearn, especially as I now no longer live in-country.

I think that if you learn to read that your vocabulary will expand and develop much quicker than if you do not read. There is a great deal of vocabulary that is simply rarely encountered in every day speech. And by reading one can learn to express more complex thoughts more accurately. Not that I have many complex thoughts these days; but your mileage may vary.

And when learning a new language such as Thai, a non-Indo-European language, it would not hurt to pick up and browse and introductory book on modern linguistics and learn the rudiments of phonology. There are some pretty simple rules that explain why some consonant letters in Thai have different sounds at the end of a syllable than at the beginning of a syllable. No need to try to understand it all, even Richard can go well over my head on this subject, but look at a chart to see which consonants are grouped together relative to point of articulation and also try to understand the basics of manner of articulation and basics of voicing. At the very least it would cut down in the number of people who mistakenly confuse /b/ with /p/ (unaspirated) and /d/ with /t/(unaspirated).

[boxig]

Johpa

You are right. This is of course depends what each one is looking for. Most people I know simply want to be able to speak and read in a reasonable level. Other take it more seriously, especially if they are still young and working in a company in Thailand.

(By the way, I posted in the wrong thread but there is no way to move my post.)

Edited May 12, 2006 by boxig