Thaksin calls USA a "useless friend"

[ChiangMaiThai]

Human rights for dealers, don't make me laugh.

beach

First of all, rather than bringing suspected dealers to trial and looking at the evidence, they just shot them all. Okay, some people will have no sympathy, I know. But then do you really believe that every single person who died was a dealer? Innocent people died because Dear Leader enacted a kill now, ask questions later policy. And actually, they never even botherted to ask the questions did they?

And for all you who believe that the drug trade has been eradicated and will never return, I have a chemical that turns ordinary paper into Euros and Dollars. (We're working on Baht now). I offer excellent prices and a 100% guarantee.

[ChiangMaiThai]

What Thaksin allegedly did with the drug problem was justified.  The persons that perpetrated those crimes were domestic terrorist acting against the interest of the people of Thailand.  

Easy there, mouse. I accept that criminals deserve the punishment a state assigns to the crimes for which they are convicted. But the RTP murdered 2500 innocent citizens and guests of Thailand, whose only crime was being in the wrong place at the wrong time. They were not charged; not tried; only sentenced, and brutally so. To call them drug dealers is to make yourself an active participant in yet another Taksin whitewash.

We have no idea if these murder victims were violating any law. The police, acting as judge, jury and executioner, saw to it there was no corpus on which the justice of due process could be served.

This is one of the key points of a government system of checks and balances. Those responsible for enforcing the law are not given the authority to punish violators of the law. The conflict of interest is irresitable to mortal humans, as so chillingly demonstrated by the RTP.

"Power corrupts. And absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Couldn't agree more.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

What Thaksin allegedly did with the drug problem was justified.  The persons that perpetrated those crimes were domestic terrorist acting against the interest of the people of Thailand.  

Easy there, mouse. I accept that criminals deserve the punishment a state assigns to the crimes for which they are convicted. But the RTP murdered 2500 innocent citizens and guests of Thailand, whose only crime was being in the wrong place at the wrong time. They were not charged; not tried; only sentenced, and brutally so. To call them drug dealers is to make yourself an active participant in yet another Taksin whitewash.

We have no idea if these murder victims were violating any law. The police, acting as judge, jury and executioner, saw to it there was no corpus on which the justice of due process could be served.

This is one of the key points of a government system of checks and balances. Those responsible for enforcing the law are not given the authority to punish violators of the law. The conflict of interest is irresitable to mortal humans, as so chillingly demonstrated by the RTP.

"Power corrupts. And absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Couldn't agree more.

And once again I am with you CMT I suspect that we'll be off Cheerless Leader's next New Year card list. Mai mee sawasdee pee mai card from the Doc T

[astral]

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Your Majesty, for your warm and gracious welcome......

Thailand is a principled, generous nation, rising to meet the challenges of our time. Thailand's positive influence in the world is inspired by the fine example of service that Your Majesty, and Her Majesty, the Queen, set for your people. It's also vivid in the great, humane traditions of this land. America is honored to have your friendship.

So I offer a toast to Your Majesties, to the Royal Family, and to your great nation. (A toast is offered.)

END"

I was looking for the original source of the publication that causes such consternation for PM Shinawatra, but could not find it.  I ran across this and thought I would add it to the mix.

Just goes to show how little the President of the US know about the political and democatic system in Thailand.

Not amention of the Thai government.

A major gaffe!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sick Boy]

THAILAND AND THE WORLD NEED MEN LIKE BUSH AND THAKSIN, MEN WITH BALLS.

Balls can definatelty be a useful attribute. Hitler, one would assume, had balls (well, at least one anyway) so did Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Saddam Hussein.

However I would suggest that Thailand would benefit far more from a leader who possesses intelligence, foresight, tolerence, understanding, compassion, integrity, honesty, and above all a pure and unselfish desire to improve the lives of all it's citizens.

It is quite obvious that many of our Dear Leader's policies are made with certain business interests in mind regardless of whether it is for the good of the nation.

Ruthlessness, aggression, and risk-taking may be useful qualities for success in business but may have serious adverse consequences when applied to running a country, especially one which has enjoyed a modicum of freedom in the past.

[astral]

What about those illegally detained at Guantanamo Bay?

Perhaps the US should put its own house in order first!

[mrvietnam2001]

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Your Majesty, for your warm and gracious welcome......

Thailand is a principled, generous nation, rising to meet the challenges of our time. Thailand's positive influence in the world is inspired by the fine example of service that Your Majesty, and Her Majesty, the Queen, set for your people. It's also vivid in the great, humane traditions of this land. America is honored to have your friendship.

So I offer a toast to Your Majesties, to the Royal Family, and to your great nation. (A toast is offered.)

END"

I was looking for the original source of the publication that causes such consternation for PM Shinawatra, but could not find it.  I ran across this and thought I would add it to the mix.

Just goes to show how little the President of the US know about the political and democatic system in Thailand.

Not amention of the Thai government.

A major gaffe!!!!!!!!!!!!

More like how little he ( or anyone else for that matter) really cares.

It's all about power.

Mr Vietnam

[Sick Boy]

Perhaps the US should put its own house in order first!

I'm sure president Kerry will do so at his earliest convenience.

[KhunLouis]

Four months ago..Thaksin sang to Busk...'You are my sunshine my only sunshine'

Now that Bush put him on the lap as naughty boy...he cries so much...too much to be a leader.....

[Boon Mee]

Perhaps the US should put its own house in order first!

I'm sure president Kerry will do so at his earliest convenience.

In your dreams dude!

[francois]

so, next move from toxin ... withdraw all Thai army troops from Irak

francois

[Sick Boy]

Perhaps the US should put its own house in order first!

I'm sure president Kerry will do so at his earliest convenience.

In your dreams dude!

So you think that Bush will win with another landslide.... like he did last time, eh?

Clinton was a hard act to follow.

Bush is an absolute disaster.

Kerry will walk it.

[Moving]

Some questions:

Of the estimated 2500 Thai who lost there lives in the PM's three month war on drugs...were any just wounded? And during this time how many were arrested, charged, tried and convicted? And of those convicted, what were the sentences?

One general observation...I went to an upscale Thai disco..won't go again, couldn't hear for the next three days...anyway, the locals, most appeared to be in the 20-25 y/o group, were passing around pills and appeared to do so without the slightest hesitation...no fear of getting caught.

[shedend]

I am with you 100% mbkudu. The Americans should sort out their own problems instead of always getting involved in another countries problem. Bush even smiles when he talks about Iraq etc to the media. He is so arrogant and maybe he might learn some lessons about diplomacy from other countries leaders.

[Moving]

Were there human rights violations are not...were innocent people killed by accident? Were those suspected of moving drugs killed in gun battles or were they executed? Were the police acting on orders or just over zealous? Were there any legitimate investigations of those incidents that resulted in deaths.

I spent some time in Guatemala and I can tell you that what appears to have occurred here if very similar to how their military functions...and it ain't good.

[meadish_sweetball]

Were there human rights violations are not...were innocent people killed by accident? Were those suspected of moving drugs killed in gun battles or were they executed? Were the police acting on orders or just over zealous? Were there any legitimate investigations of those incidents that resulted in deaths.

I spent some time in Guatemala and I can tell you that what appears to have occurred here if very similar to how their military functions...and it ain't good.

Were there human rights violations are not...were innocent people killed by accident?  Were those suspected of moving drugs killed in gun battles or were they executed?

Problem no. 1 with this whole business is that nobody knows for sure. This is a constant problem in this country, because, in the end, which source can you REALLY trust?

The newspapers reported extrajudicial killings (both gunfights and summary executions), I do not have the exact figures, and I believe they would very likely vary from newspaper to newspaper. Also, we have to ask where the journalists got their info from? Keep in mind that a lot of border activity (especially towards Burma) is never seen by anyone except for the people living in the area, the smugglers of various goods, freedom fighters/terrorists and the military or the police. If the newspapers base their stories on police stories, it is very likely that they try to appear as vigilant and effective as is possible in their press contacts.

Burmese drug smugglers who try to cross the border are shot on a regular basis - I have this from an inside source (but why should you trust me, and why should I trust him, except that he has no reason to tell me these things which make him appear in an unfavourable light). Some say that the only thing different during the so called "War on Drugs" was that the police and military actually DID report who they shot during that time.

Of course, human rights groups and NGOs make their estimates, but I don't have access to those. Maybe somebody else does?

So the truth is, none of us know. But based on what I do know about the police and military here since before, I would not be surprised if a lot of scores unrelated to drugs were settled in the process.

[sabaijai]

Who has given the US the right to judge?

Everyone has the right to judge, I think, whether individuals, organisations or governments.

It's funny, every year the US human rights report has some dirt on Thailand, Thaksin's just the first to take the bait. Thaksin said something like "how would they like it if we issued a human rights report on the USA?" I say go for it. I think all countries should spend at least 20% of their time reviewing human rights in other countries. Might do some good, who knows ...

I travel a lot in Thailand, and I personally haven't observed any change in drug use since the extrajudicial killings occurred. I believe it's been fairly well documented, as well, that some of the people killed were not dealers, not even users. A suspicious number of victims in widely separate parts of the country were found holding the same packet of yaa baa ... or it is claimed my human rights groups right here in thailand ...

The more Thaksin shouts foul, the guiltier he looks. A wiser politician would keep silent and respond through diplomatic channels. Even the generals in Burma know that ...

[Ronnok]

I was happy to see Thailand set the example on a real war with drugs as it should be waged. USA is allowing drugs to flood across its borders with ease because of the money being made while politicians claim the flood of illegals benefits republicans for low wages and democrats for votes. The drug flow benefits the upper class that have the power to stop it. I do believe the drug kingpins were killing the small dealers to avoid being arrested by the Thai goverment. Why let the people suffer with the drug related crimes that drag a working family down?

USA needs to learn from Thailands success in dealing with the scum.

[hkthai]

I find it incredible that evertime a Thai politician makes a remark on the international scene, they manage to make complete fools of themselves. Why don't they ever learn. Wait, I have an answer to that one. The answer is that they're a little bit on the stupid side.

By all likelihood Thaksin is fast becomming a quiet dictator of a third world country. As a leader of a third world country it is not uncommon for stupid comments to be made in public for the world's attention.

But what is Bush's excuse??? I recall someone saying "you are either with us or against us".

[ChiangMaiThai]

The more Thaksin shouts foul, the guiltier he looks. A wiser politician would keep silent and respond through diplomatic channels. Even the generals in Burma know that ...

Agreed. Dear Leader never ceases to amaze me. That 'useless' friend headline went out around the world, CNN, BBC etc. Knee jerk reactions like this don't help his cause at all. Once again, just goes to show that he is not a wise politician. He is a wise businessman and that is all.

[dkstoney]

For those of you who think that other countries don't have the right to examine the quality of life in other countries and issue reports, where is the criticism to come from--the people who are being repressed, abused, and terrorized by their very own government? Are they to blame for not having the cajones to speak up for themselves?

To those of you who think the Rodney King beating is in any way, shape, or form comparable and on a par with Thailand's drug war or that Guantanamo Bay is relative to the same, I'd like to order a steaming hot plate of red herring for dinner--cause you're serving it. The US doesn't condone mass extrajudicial killings of its own population. A few racist police officers stepping out of the line of duty and beating one man is very different from a country's leader issuing carte blanche orders to his national police force.

To those of you who reason that drug dealers have no rights and are despicable creatures below the line of humanity, therefore it's ok to kill the other 1200 or so innocent people, I commend you for your outstandingly, redundant lack of compassion. "You have to break eggs to make an omelet."?!?! I only need to break the 3 eggs I'm going to use in the omelet, not the other 9 of the dozen. You make better commentary with your mouths shut.

This country is stricken to death with its own pee-nong system. It's all about appearances, status, money, age, amount of Chinese blood, and so many other reasons why criticism is frowned upon. The pee-nong system runs counter to the ideas of democratic thinking. It's ok to respect people for these things. It's not ok to let them hide behind them. Toxin should heed the advice and stop trying to censor others' thoughts. Of course, that would mean cleaning up his act. The people of Thailand need to break free of the cultural chains that bind them and start thinking for themselves. When a little kid is tightrope walking the powerlines, someone should say, "Hey! Get down from there before you get electrocuted!" Or when a group of people stop at the top of the escalator in the mall and stare at the ceiling the folks behind them should say, "Hey! Get the heck outta' the way. This is a thoroughfare, not a hitching post." When their leader is using the system for his own gain they should say, "NO MORE TOXIN!"

For more information follow this link: US STATE DEPT

Scroll down to:

RESPECT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS

Section 1 Respect for the Integrity of the Person, Including Freedom From:

a. Arbitrary or Unlawful Deprivation of Life

[pbnomad]

THAKSINs only Friends are his immediate family,because they help him Hide his ill gotten Baht.

[royar2002]

I live in North east and I can not seen anything about Toxins clean up works. There is still full of drugs here, but more expensive. Instead of using or buying drugs in place you can see, now they sit in private home with armed guard so people like you and the police can not find them so easy. And they are very afraid of strangers because of the killings. When the price of drugs is 5 times more than before, force all the addicted to steel and make robbery. There is so many robbery of young people know so they dont even report it to police. Armed robbery of mobilephone and gold can easy change to drugs.

Tuktuk drivers refuse to go in small soi after dark afraid to be killed.

Kalasin was the first city to clean up and it was dayly killing of student, young people without work and tuktukdriver. I can not see this people as druglords. After 6 months Kalsin was declared drugfree and the government make a big party. December the killing start again and and I dont know how many is killed last 3 month, but many. That means the province is still full of "druglords" with tuktuk and the clean up totally failed. What if your baby try a joint one day and you find him/her with a bullet in the head. Is that clean up? Why not start and clean more better and kill all the lao khao drinkers, all farangs, the people who like to have drink after midnight and the young people who try drugs because they not have money for school or have job. Then Toxin can report to Thailands good King that Thailand is no declared free of unwanted people.

I wish Thailand still was like 20 years ago!

[snowleopard]

Everyone has the right to judge, I think, whether individuals, organisations or governments.

By all likelihood Thaksin is fast becomming a quiet dictator of a third world country

Wow!Spoiled little brat Toxin is throwing another of his pathetic tantrums and lashing out at his critics once again!!

His megalomaniac delusions of grandeur have been disturbed and now he reacts in the only psychological fashion his narcissistic personality allows him to-when dealing with any criticism-which is of course to retort to his critics by shouting abuse and threatening retaliation.

Poor little rich boy.

Now he's gonna counter-attack with a similar report on the U.S.!

This clown is just too big for his breeches.

I think it's great that someone has the guts to stand up to this schoolyard bully by telling him a few truths straight to his face

None of the sycophants on the political scene in Thailand has the balls to do anything.

Thank you Uncle Sam.

(Eventhough the current Commander in Chief is a theocratic moron)

More countries and domestic critics should follow suit and do the same thing because power is the only language this little narcissist and his political cult followers understand!

Farang-countries should adopt a unanimous policy of retorsion against Thailand.

Especially against rich Thais who own land and assets overseas.Hit them where it hurts them the most.That'd teach them some fair play.

Then consequently,Farangs wouldn't be treated as second-class citizens in the Realm anymore and Thailand would be nudged in a democratic direction with increased respect for human rights,accountability,tranparancy,

no-more kangaroo courts etc.

That's the direction Thailand should go!

But if Toxin and his love-cult stay in power so long that they can impose their semi-secret nationalistic agenda and then also begin to build their utopian society based on their own fantasies,they will probably destroy this fair land as the Taliban once did in Afghanistan.

Snowleopard.

[Gfunk]

Ha Ha, thaksin is so funny, a useless friend, as much as falang say they dont want him in power, it'd be boring with out him i mean where else can ya go in the world and watch a real life comedy about someone trying to run a country, it is a bit sad that thais and the thai reputation with suffer, fantastic stuff, im just waiting for the aplogy from thaks when the u.s decied to buy their millions of dollars of rice from some one who may consider them a more usfull friend,

p.s are all you fools going home at 12 tonight or not?

[Axel]

p.s are all you fools going home at 12 tonight or not?

Suggest, if you are not in bed by 12, go home early

[randyksf]

Funny how now we have a lot of new posters.... Could it be cover up by the Bush administration??????

I have been talking to quite a few Thais about politics and it is funny before they said the like him. Now they still stay it but with obvious hesitation.

For example at the BKK Post when the guy was fired the next day everyone wore black. I also have a few Friends in the Central Bank and they are all getting really nervous about what is going with Thailand's funds.

Sit back and enjoy the ride.

Oh one last question... Why is it, that most of the people jabbing the US about Iraq are from the UK.

[et33.com]

i tell you why USA is making so much noise about the drug dealers / assuming the those killed are really drug dealers...

because thailand is killing the CIA's drug customers...

[Sick Boy]

i tell you why USA is making so much noise about the drug dealers / assuming the those killed are really drug dealers...

because thailand is killing the CIA's drug customers...

Of course! Why didn't I think of that?!

Are you related to Dave Yo at all?

[Bush]

I read your comments, opinions not only this topic concerned but also a lot of posts concerning various matters.

I'm deeply shocked by the bottomless standard of discussion. With a very few exemptions, the entire forum always missed the point to be discussed. Polemics and irrational claims are favoured instead of going deeper in to the subject.

It seems to me ( few exemptions ) that all of you don't like Thailand or the way of living here.

If you can't behave as a guest better go back to your home country – or is this not possible?

Free speech: Yes, I agree but in a manor not to insult other people.

Facts: Yes facts have to be discussed but not allegations. Stick to what is proven and not what you think it could be or should be.

To make it clear: Thaksin's policies are beyond my understanding and are sure not acceptable for me. But he has been elected and came to power in a similar way as Bush.

Whether or not the State Department is publishing human rights reports or not is up to the Americans. Whether Thaksin is reacting on such report is up to him. If Thaksin is disappointed, and is calling the Americans useless friends, why not? Free speech as you proclaimed nosily.

Human rights should be discussed in a much more precisely way and not with arguments as such: Thailand needs the American, but the Americans do not need Thailand. Who is pushing for globalisation, but at the same time not for human rights ( but for business rights )? Who doesn't sign up the environmental act? What about human rights? Who does reject any responsibility for the mass use of Orange agent? What about the victim's right? And so forth.

Whether or not Thaksin lied and betrayed the public is a Thai affair not yours. If Bush lied and betrayed the public is not an American affair only, because parts of the world are suffering.

Finally, human rights are not limited country borders and are not the invention of the Americans. Whenever human rights are spoiled justice should come to help. Polemics are contradicting this issue.

Regards