Right hand turns on scooter

[jcore]

Can someone advise the proper way to turn right on a scooter (not at intersection)? Last year I was on my scooter, saw a shop on the right so moved to median, signaled with my arm while I waited for a gap between oncoming cars. A truck (ciming my direction) nearly took me out so I wonder what I should have done. Actually this was in Indonesia but they drive on left like England. Should I keep moving, find a gap and do the turn and backtrack or what? Hopefully I explained this. I still have nightmares if almost becoming road pizza! Help! Thanks

[bobo42]

You are doing it the proper way (to the best of my knowledge). Amazingly, I have seen a lot of motorbike drivers pull over to the left with their right blinker on, wait for a break in traffic from both directions, and then go across all lanes. At least in my neck-of-the-woods, that seems to be an accepted practice. Personally, I take it on a case-by-case basis, depending on traffic and road conditions - sometimes I do it the "right" way, other times I do it the "local's" way.

[craigt3365]

Let's move this over to the motorcycle forum.

Topic Moved.

[jdinasia]

1) Be aware of the road rules (same in Indonesia as they are in thailand) The biggest vehicle on the road makes the rules.

2) if the road is busy find an appropriate place to turn or make a u-turn.

3) Only make a direct right turn when the traffic behind you and in front of you allows plenty of space and time to make those turns. Trust me, it won't matter that you were technically not in the wrong when you are underneath a 10 wheel truck.

[BSJ]

Firstly. You have to be at one with the scooter. Then allow your spirit flow like a rain awash stream in the Amazon jungle. And wear a Buddha amulet....but 2 would be better!

[ll2]

you cannot normally just decide to turn right on a vehicle especially on a bike.

you have to be on that lane before to stop in front of that shop for your own safety.

[jcore]

You are doing it the proper way (to the best of my knowledge). Amazingly, I have seen a lot of motorbike drivers pull over to the left with their right blinker on, wait for a break in traffic from both directions, and then go across all lanes. At least in my neck-of-the-woods, that seems to be an accepted practice. Personally, I take it on a case-by-case basis, depending on traffic and road conditions - sometimes I do it the "right" way, other times I do it the "local's" way.

As I watched the lorrie fishtail and the lady in front of the shop gasp like a bad horror movie, I felt I was doing something stupid. I like your advice to go case-by-case but this was an eye opener, after all we're not in Kansas Toto. it's a bit of the wild west and those of us that enjoy poking around on a scooter are low men on the totem pole.

[Garry]

Firstly. You have to be at one with the scooter. Then allow your spirit flow like a rain awash stream in the Amazon jungle. And wear a Buddha amulet....but 2 would be better!

I thought that was only for Ducati riders...that is some funny sh$t mate

[VocalNeal]

I rode for years in Indonesia and no way would I have stopped in the centre of the road waiting to turn right. That would be like waiting to die! I have seen a car; passing a minivan; which was passing a bus; which was passing a truck. This on a divided highway with no median!

The safest if not the correct way would be either to accelerate to the right side and while maintaining the same speed as the rest of the traffic and when a gap appeared turn across the oncoming lane either onto the verge or into a side street, then turnaround and go back. Or if the road is a single lane narrow road, continue until a left hand opportunity presented itself and turn left. Then execute a conventional right turn back to the shop. If you are stopped or going slower than the traffic you are destined for the 72 virgins awaiting you in heaven.(Only applies to Indonesia:-))

Edited November 26, 2013 by VocalNeal

[55Jay]

If things are really busy where I live (4 lane highway through town, no median to speak of), I'll often stop on the left shoulder, check things out both ways, then cross straight over.

Beer and ice cream in the basket only suffers a little bit longer. Live another day.

[rwdrwdrwd]

You are doing it the proper way (to the best of my knowledge). Amazingly, I have seen a lot of motorbike drivers pull over to the left with their right blinker on, wait for a break in traffic from both directions, and then go across all lanes. At least in my neck-of-the-woods, that seems to be an accepted practice. Personally, I take it on a case-by-case basis, depending on traffic and road conditions - sometimes I do it the "right" way, other times I do it the "local's" way.

The local way is done for good reason.. loads of accidents happen with oncoming vehicles overtaking and hitting motorcyclists waiting to turn right, and also by vehicles overtaking on the same side as the motoryclist is turning. Problem is that the gap in traffic that offers the motorcyclist a chance to perform the turn is seen by motorists pelting along on the side the moto rider is turning from as an overtaking opportunity.

Pulling over to the right is the 'right' way, but it can be very lethal here unfortunately, particularly because the way it goes wrong intrinsically involves high speed bigger vehicles. Since seeing someone killed for doing it the right way, I pull to the left and wait for a space, same as the locals.

[Gsxrnz]

I rode for years in Indonesia and no way would I have stopped in the centre of the road waiting to turn right. That would be like waiting to die! I have seen a car; passing a minivan; which was passing a bus; which was passing a truck. This on a divided highway with no median!

The safest if not the correct way would be either to accelerate to the right side and while maintaining the same speed as the rest of the traffic and when a gap appeared turn across the oncoming lane either onto the verge or into a side street, then turnaround and go back. Or if the road is a single lane narrow road, continue until a left hand opportunity presented itself and turn left. Then execute a conventional right turn back to the shop. If you are stopped or going slower than the traffic you are destined for the 72 virgins awaiting you in heaven.(Only applies to Indonesia:-))

Excellent advice.

And I'm glad you put in the qualification about the 72 virgins. It could have lead to serious confusion in Thailand.

[BSJ]

Firstly. You have to be at one with the scooter. Then allow your spirit flow like a rain awash stream in the Amazon jungle. And wear a Buddha amulet....but 2 would be better!

I thought that was only for Ducati riders...that is some funny sh$t mate

In reality.....I can ride 500 metres past the shop I want before I U-turn and go back. You have to us your brain here twice as much as back home!

Leaving the shop, if there is a lot of traffic, I will take off in the direction of the traffic get up to speed and do a U-turn when it is safe.

I've been in the situation stuck in the middle with no-where to go once. Never again!

[jdinasia]

Firstly. You have to be at one with the scooter. Then allow your spirit flow like a rain awash stream in the Amazon jungle. And wear a Buddha amulet....but 2 would be better!

Point of order ---- NEVER wear an even number of amulets!

[richard_smith237]

As a car driver....

Today I was driving down a two lane road - fairly quiet at about 60kmh.

A bike in front of me starts indicating to the right, but pulling over to the left.

I slow as I say behind her... she slows, I slow more, she stops I stop...

I drive on, she turns right after I've passed...

I thought... hmm.. smart girl, cautious, doesn't trust that the car has seen her indicate.

[Beardog]

As a car driver....

Today I was driving down a two lane road - fairly quiet at about 60kmh.

A bike in front of me starts indicating to the right, but pulling over to the left.

I slow as I say behind her... she slows, I slow more, she stops I stop...

I drive on, she turns right after I've passed...

I thought... hmm.. smart girl, cautious, doesn't trust that the car has seen her indicate.

Maybe she was afraid you were going to mow her down. You are the same Richard Smith with the snake eye avatar that posted to a post I made & had pulled within a day about Bangkok drivers in Pattaya being poor drivers in Pattaya. You did mention that you dislike bikes & would rather clear them out of your way with your vehicle? I think she may have picked up on that vibe. You don't even own a motorcycle yes?

[macknife]

I lived in Indonesia for a while and the from what I remember...To turn right you pull over to the left and wait for a break in traffic to turn right.

Waiting in the right lane on a busy road is suicide in Indonesia.

[richard_smith237]

As a car driver....

Today I was driving down a two lane road - fairly quiet at about 60kmh.

A bike in front of me starts indicating to the right, but pulling over to the left.

I slow as I say behind her... she slows, I slow more, she stops I stop...

I drive on, she turns right after I've passed...

I thought... hmm.. smart girl, cautious, doesn't trust that the car has seen her indicate.

Maybe she was afraid you were going to mow her down. You are the same Richard Smith with the snake eye avatar that posted to a post I made & had pulled within a day about Bangkok drivers in Pattaya being poor drivers in Pattaya. You did mention that you dislike bikes & would rather clear them out of your way with your vehicle? I think she may have picked up on that vibe. You don't even own a motorcycle yes?

..... 'clearing bikes out of the way with my vehicle'... thats not my attitude, you've misunderstood something I've written in the past.

You are correct - I'm sure she was afraid I was going to hit her which is why she pulled to the left before turning, she was going slowly (about 20kmh) and had she not been indicating right I would have simply driven past her.

I don't own a motorcycle - but don't see the relevance in relation to the comment I made above regarding my observations of how this lady remained safe while on a bike and turning right.

[bobo42]

You are doing it the proper way (to the best of my knowledge). Amazingly, I have seen a lot of motorbike drivers pull over to the left with their right blinker on, wait for a break in traffic from both directions, and then go across all lanes. At least in my neck-of-the-woods, that seems to be an accepted practice. Personally, I take it on a case-by-case basis, depending on traffic and road conditions - sometimes I do it the "right" way, other times I do it the "local's" way.

The local way is done for good reason.. loads of accidents happen with oncoming vehicles overtaking and hitting motorcyclists waiting to turn right, and also by vehicles overtaking on the same side as the motoryclist is turning. Problem is that the gap in traffic that offers the motorcyclist a chance to perform the turn is seen by motorists pelting along on the side the moto rider is turning from as an overtaking opportunity.

Pulling over to the right is the 'right' way, but it can be very lethal here unfortunately, particularly because the way it goes wrong intrinsically involves high speed bigger vehicles. Since seeing someone killed for doing it the right way, I pull to the left and wait for a space, same as the locals.

Always pulling to the left can get you killed too. More than once I've encountered motorbikes pulled over to the left, as well as cars pulled to the right, so that the motorbike is directly blocking the obvious path for vehicles approaching from behind. Fast approaching vehicles tend to avoid the cars first, and notice the motorbikes after. I've seen several close-calls this way.

I would still recommend case-by-case. Always make sure you're not in the way of any fast-approaching traffic, and make use of other vehicles to shield yourself. In dense, slow traffic, I would pull to the right, particularly in city-traffic, this seems to be the norm. If cars were already blocking for a right-turn, I'd pull in with them. In fast moving traffic, or where cars might be passing or appraching quickly, I would pull well over to the left and wait for a clear crossing. Or you may also choose to cross the oncoming lane at-speed before your turn, and drive the "wrong way" on the road until you reach it - this is often locally "the norm", depending on the road.

Do what seems like the safest course, in consideration of the current surroudings and conditions, and observe the local drivers, good and bad, to learn what your good options are, and what not to do.

[Bikkii]

Close your eyes, cross your fingers and pull into the middle of the road. Breathe deeply and when it feels like the right time, charge full speed ahead.

[Beardog]

As a car driver....

Today I was driving down a two lane road - fairly quiet at about 60kmh.

A bike in front of me starts indicating to the right, but pulling over to the left.

I slow as I say behind her... she slows, I slow more, she stops I stop...

I drive on, she turns right after I've passed...

I thought... hmm.. smart girl, cautious, doesn't trust that the car has seen her indicate.

Maybe she was afraid you were going to mow her down. You are the same Richard Smith with the snake eye avatar that posted to a post I made & had pulled within a day about Bangkok drivers in Pattaya being poor drivers in Pattaya. You did mention that you dislike bikes & would rather clear them out of your way with your vehicle? I think she may have picked up on that vibe. You don't even own a motorcycle yes?

..... 'clearing bikes out of the way with my vehicle'... thats not my attitude, you've misunderstood something I've written in the past.

You are correct - I'm sure she was afraid I was going to hit her which is why she pulled to the left before turning, she was going slowly (about 20kmh) and had she not been indicating right I would have simply driven past her.

I don't own a motorcycle - but don't see the relevance in relation to the comment I made above regarding my observations of how this lady remained safe while on a bike and turning right.

Your post was pretty much all about that you dislike motorbikes & motorcycles & you made a direct statement on how you more or less just run them off of the road to clear a path so you can go. I still have the post if you want me to post it for all to see it Or we can just let it go. You really need to watch what you say on an open forum . It has a way of coming back on you. On the other hand if you don't ride a bike why would you want to give someone with a bike advice on how to ride?

[A1Str8]

You always need to move with traffic.

[jcore]

I rode for years in Indonesia and no way would I have stopped in the centre of the road waiting to turn right. That would be like waiting to die! I have seen a car; passing a minivan; which was passing a bus; which was passing a truck. This on a divided highway with no median!

The safest if not the correct way would be either to accelerate to the right side and while maintaining the same speed as the rest of the traffic and when a gap appeared turn across the oncoming lane either onto the verge or into a side street, then turnaround and go back. Or if the road is a single lane narrow road, continue until a left hand opportunity presented itself and turn left. Then execute a conventional right turn back to the shop. If you are stopped or going slower than the traffic you are destined for the 72 virgins awaiting you in heaven.(Only applies to Indonesia:-))

Thanks for advice. Only 72 up there? ha

[Beardog]

And in addition to the other posters great remarks- Never put yourself in between buses & another big rig if you can avoid it. Sometimes they merge quickly & you for sure do not want to be in the center of the sandwich. And another good point is never make a quick sudden lane change but only gradual changes to give the other driver a chance to re-correct a miscalculation for many reasons . The obvious one id either lack of paying attention to you or they are just a selfish Ahole that wants to road rage with a bike cause they are bigger in 4 wheel vehicles & can. The only exception to the rule on a quick lane change is if you are being targeted by other cars & you need to get away from them in a hurry to save your skin! I agree turning anywhere in Thailand can be quite a challenge as a lot of folks use the mirrors for picking Their faces only & then there are the Common Kazis coming from all directions & sidewalks.

Drive safe & enjoy the ride!

[richard_smith237]

Your post was pretty much all about that you dislike motorbikes & motorcycles & you made a direct statement on how you more or less just run them off of the road to clear a path so you can go. I still have the post if you want me to post it for all to see it Or we can just let it go. You really need to watch what you say on an open forum . It has a way of coming back on you. On the other hand if you don't ride a bike why would you want to give someone with a bike advice on how to ride?

I run bikes off the road ?? Really?.... I didn't post anything of the sort... But your comment shows how far out of context you are prepared to go and how you will stretch and manipulate a comment to try and make a point.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/634680-whats-up-with-the-crazy-bkk-drivers-now-in-pattaya/

You cried online in April because you nearly drove into the back of a car and as such blamed all drivers from Bangkok for driving badly in Pattaya.

You didn't enjoy it when people suggested that if you nearly drive into the back of a car, you are riding too close and / or not paying attention.

Holding a grudge for 8 months certainly shows a significant lack of perspective and balance on your part.

So really this is a rant about anyone who lives in Bangkok? are you expecting a 'lets gang up on Bangkok drivers' response? all a bit childish no?

Or do you feel you have the sole right to your city and visitors are not welcome?

The tone of your post suggests a certain lack of balance.

The driver at fault my well have been you as you admit to nearly dropping your bike.

That said, the guy stopping for no apparent reason may have been driving like a dick, but if he is then he's a dick regardless of the city in which his plates are registered.

That is actually a fare point... I drive in Bangkok and pay little regard to those on bikes. Sounds harsh, but if I did I wouldn't get anywhere.

i.e. I want to change lanes and indicate, but the bikes just keep on undertaking, I have no choice but to either ignore the bikes and move across slowly or fail to change lanes....

With so many bikes the adopted driving techniques in the city are generally to drive with deliberation and let the bikes work out their own way around you. Of course, I'd never cut off a bike.

That said - if you nearly go into the back of a car because he's stamped on the breaks there is little remaining doubt that the following vehicle is too close.

If some were to drop their bike in the process or ride into the back of the stopping vehicle there is no one else to blame.... Suggesting violence in such an event only confirms an aggressive character and possibly outlines why the Op was too close in the first place and nearly came off.

I'm sure you'd have no problem next to me. If I'm indicating to change lanes I'm sure your conscientious riding would give way rather than trying to accelerate through the gap and under-take me while I try and change lanes.

But I wonder, if I had to slam on the brakes for a dog etc... would you nearly go in into the back of me and then attack me because you dropped your bike ?? I hope you didn't teach road rage in your drives ed classes.

Regarding the influx of BKK cars in Pattaya: I'm not sure it is an influx of BKK cars... Bangkok itself has become more congested in the past 6 months too. This must have something to do with the new car scheme... it feels like there are another 10-20% more cars on the road.

I say nothing of mowing down bikes. I simply point out that when driving in the city you have to ignore the bikes and let them work their way around you otherwise we in cars would never get anywhere. I also commented that I'd never cut off a bike...

Now you are suggesting I have to fit your criteria and ride a bike before I can comment on this thread.

I have ridden plenty of bikes in Thailand, but now choose not to because of the additional risks and dangers. i.e. someone hitting a bike when the rider is waiting in the centre to turn right. A car driver can recognise the risks involved as much as anyone else, suggesting otherwise is a tad dim.

One additional comment on bike safety: Don't sit in the blind spot of a car...

Edited November 28, 2013 by richard_smith237

[Beardog]

richard_smith237, on 23 Apr 2013 - 13:28, said:
So really this is a rant about anyone who lives in Bangkok? are you expecting a 'lets gang up on Bangkok drivers' response? all a bit childish no?

Or do you feel you have the sole right to your city and visitors are not welcome?


The tone of your post suggests a certain lack of balance.

The driver at fault my well have been you as you admit to nearly dropping your bike.
That said, the guy stopping for no apparent reason may have been driving like a dick, but if he is then he's a dick regardless of the city in which his plates are registered.

The city of registration may have no relevance as to whether or not the driver is a dick but I have found they act as a good reference point for survival as a motorcyclist in Pattaya. My rule of thumb is to expect those from the larger cities to have little reqard for motorbikes, changing lanes rapidly, stopping suddenly etc, while those with Chonburi plates tend to be far more aware of and make allowances for bikes. Upcountry/small province plates are just a mystery, give them space who knows what they will do next............ditto foreign tourists on big bikes!

That is actually a fare point... I drive in Bangkok and pay little regard to those on bikes. Sounds harsh, but if I did I wouldn't get anywhere.
i.e. I want to change lanes and indicate, but the bikes just keep on undertaking, I have no choice but to either ignore the bikes and move across slowly or fail to change lanes....
With so many bikes the adopted driving techniques in the city are generally to drive with deliberation and let the bikes work out their own way around you. Of course, I'd never cut off a bike.

That said - if you nearly go into the back of a car because he's stamped on the breaks there is little remaining doubt that the following vehicle is too close.
If some were to drop their bike in the process or ride into the back of the stopping vehicle there is no one else to blame.... Suggesting violence in such an event only confirms an aggressive character and possibly outlines why the Op was too close in the first place and nearly came off.

#15 itchybum
Super Member
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Posted 2013-04-23 14:22:11
Exactly.

And to say he was going to come to blows because the driver made him drop his bike is quite ignorant.



Well here you are saying exactly what I said & there is more. So Don't be coy about your intentions there is more to this thread & the other moron Ichybum has had several runs in with the law regarding bikes One biggie was the drunk driving & the other was running over & dragging a motorcyclist in Bangkok for 7 meter & took off & got caught. His name and shame can be found on the other motorcycle forums as he was caught lying on 2 of the forums & someone new of him because it was his buddy under the car. I am not saying you are him But you did say That is actually a fare point... I drive in Bangkok and pay little regard to those on bikes. Sounds harsh, but if I did I wouldn't get anywhere.
i.e. I want to change lanes and indicate, but the bikes just keep on undertaking, I have no choice but to either ignore the bikes and move across slowly or fail to change lanes....
With so many bikes the adopted driving techniques in the city are generally to drive with deliberation and let the bikes work out their own way around you. Of course, I'd never cut off a bike. That in itself is a contradictory statement. And that almost accident the Thaai man was charged & his insurance paid for 5 vehicles involved & I got a claim form but saved my bike so I didn't need a claim

So in short yes you are exactly the wrong person to give advise. Your other posts also reflect your callous attitude. If you don't have a clue what your talking about don't just pop into any forum to hear yourself in a stupor trying to think. Like I say buddy BKK is just up the road & all the forums are very intertwined so please be a little more careful what you say on open air. You have mentioned your issue with road rage before on TV so time to change & quit posting crap you have no idea about. Like I say I would be afraid of your vehicle if I new it was you but certainly not you.

There is absolutely no reason to ever jam your brakes & cause traffic to check up because your scared. Pull over when you can & let the traffic go & then continue. It was a very punk ass thing to do & he pissed off everyone. Road rage time to get a grip. I just pull over if someone wants to go end of problem. I haven't had a wreck for nearly 30 years now & if I can avoid the road ragers I will probably make it another 30.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Beardog

[richard_smith237]

I think you may now be accusing me of road rage... but I'm not sure because your post isn't clearly legible beardog...

So now I mow down motorbikes, suffer from road rage and I don't have a clue about road safety and shouldn't be offering advice . Yet you are the one who nearly rode into the back of another vehicle and complain because the car in front stops too quickly for your liking.

You point out that I am exactly the wrong person to give advise on road safety..... I gather then in this case you disagree with my advice to not remain in the Blind Spot of a Car when riding?

You need to achieve some sense of balance beardog - Everyones comments are valid when it comes to safety.

[Beardog]

I think you may now be accusing me of road rage... but I'm not sure because your post isn't clearly legible beardog...

So now I mow down motorbikes, suffer from road rage and I don't have a clue about road safety and shouldn't be offering advice . Yet you are the one who nearly rode into the back of another vehicle and complain because the car in front stops too quickly for your liking.

You point out that I am exactly the wrong person to give advise on road safety..... I gather then in this case you disagree with my advice to not remain in the Blind Spot of a Car when riding?

You need to achieve some sense of balance beardog - Everyones comments are valid when it comes to safety.

Whatever dude you post because you need to be heard That is why you migrate from forum to forum so you can feel a sense of worth. You have countless posts about your attitude how your right & the rest of the world is wrong. Like I said the driver in the auto was at fault & was cited for inattentive driving fined and points on his record & his insurance company paid for 5 vehicles involved cause he was locking up his brakes. But ya I would say If you dont operate a motorcycle or a scooter you are far from an expert on riding a motorcycle.I don't have an issue with road rage but you have indicated several times your extreme dislike for motorcycles so just crawl back in your little hole troll & let people that do ride bikes enjoy their forum. The other forums are reserved for the drunk & angry posters. If you were not into Road Rage you wouldn't make stupid comments like you did. This post goes on but I spared you more of your assanine ravings. Let it go you have been shown for who you are & you have issues. Mine I really do not care for people locking up their brakes & causing wrecks. I highly doubt you will get any sympathy on this or any bike forum for thinking that is a cool reaction. And I don't tell people how to operate on a patient because I am not a doctor. But you are going to get zero respect for posting here so back to BKK forum for you. It seems like you have made other people in the Pattaya area irritated. since this post I have 3 emails for people that would like to know what you look like. All it takes is a minor change from thinking you have the right & trying a little kindness. You got zero compassion buddy & you only think about #1.

So there it is if you think that stomping on your brakes while traffic is crawling along & causing wrecks shows true stupidity. No sympathy for drunk posters here.

Try the main forums if you enjoy being a dik!

Edited November 28, 2013 by Beardog

[richard_smith237]

Its time for someone to grow up.... I've made the mistake of not ignoring an idiot.

Back on topic of turning right:

As some posters have mentioned: Each situation can be individually evaluated.

I made the observation of the motorcyclist in front of me pulling over to the left and waiting for me to pass before she turned right - this seemed like a very cautious and safe thing for her to do as its possible that a following car might not see her indicate.

Other posters have commented how they have been stuck in the centre of the road waiting to turn right and left feeling extremely vulnerable.

Thus: Each situation is different.

There is a greater safety issue on a road without a central divide.

It makes sense to stick left and wait for the gap.

However, if another car is also turning it makes a lot of sense to position the bike so that cars act as a barrier / protection.

It also makes sense to drive on and make a u-turn at a more opportune and safe moment.

[BSJ]

Hi Richard, you don't drive a fairly new white Fortuna do you? A few weeks ago I was travelling West on Thepprasit Rd and some old fossil driving one pulls out of a driveway next to the Colosseum without looking and nearly cleans up me and another scooter rider!