Hitting Kids

[Neeranam]

I have a problem with my 3 year old daughter. When we go shopping she runs away sometimes, thinking it's a game. I am told that I should give her a good spanking but I can't and don't want to cause a scene in the supermarket.

Any advice? I really spoil her and she know it. How can I regain some sort of authority?

My mother has spanked her, my mother-in-law and my wife both use the stick on her from time to time, which I agree with, but I can never do it.

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm non-violent, but a disobedient three year old may still be okay to restrain rather forcefully, and maybe strike or spank without causing a welt. I finally decided that one strike proved the point, and after that, even a second strike was just violent child-beating. If they won't understand one strike, they won't understand the second or tenth, except that you are teaching them that their best adult role models are violent thugs who get their way by hitting, punching, kicking, killing, torturing, etc.

Now, we can get the opinions of the violent folks who aren't non-violent. Disclaimer, though: kids below the age of 3 don't understand rationality or long explanations, and a spank or even two isn't excessive, in my arrogant opinion.

I raised six kids who are raising ten kids, and our biggest mistakes have always been spoiling our children. We were usually too LAZY to figure out effective non-violent ways of raising children to be obedient. That's our fault as parents. Beating kids requires no intelligence or love at all.

[Neeranam]

What I'm trying to do now is rewarding her when she does behave, and making sure she knows it. I have to learn to say no to the ice-dream or sweeties when she has been disobedient.

[Explorer]

Let her learn a lesson of being lost the next time you go to a supermarket, make sure she don't see you watching her movements though. Let her cry and panic for a while then come to her rescue. And tell her not to wonder around again as the next time she might have to sleep in the store.

It worked for me when I was small.

Explorer

[KhunMarco]

Let her learn a lesson of being lost the next time you go to a supermarket, make sure she don't see you watching her movements though. Let her cry and panic for a while then come to her rescue. And tell her not to wonder around again as the next time she might have to sleep in the store.

It worked for me when I was small.

Explorer

Lol; I vividly remember when I was 5 and got lost in an overcrowded beach in Italy. 3 nightmare hours.

If you have the gut to do it I can say it works, maybe 3 years old is not enough though

[wolf5370]

I've brought up 4 kids and can count the times I have had to smack them one one hand. Most young eact to a sharp no - forcefully said and with a 'look-I'm-very-angry' face - it frightens them enough to make them cry and the association is learnt (maybe not first off but it will be).

For little ones I always take a pushchair. If they act up and run away, they get put in the chair and strapped in. At 3-5 this is a loss of freedom and a good punishment. Tears and shouts are ignored.

Failing that (we can't always have a pushchair handy). I carry him/her and put up with the struggle. Again the loss of freedom.

I think the no treat thing only works with older kids. Rewarding younger kids also seems to miss the point. Very young kids just will not see the connection like we would/do.

I like Explorer's method - if it can be safely, not a better way of instilling an association than that.

[skylar]

Have you considered a harness?

[kat]

Let her learn a lesson of being lost the next time you go to a supermarket, make sure she don't see you watching her movements though. Let her cry and panic for a while then come to her rescue. And tell her not to wonder around again as the next time she might have to sleep in the store.

It worked for me when I was small.

Explorer

Let her learn a lesson of being lost the next time you go to a supermarket, make sure she don't see you watching her movements though. Let her cry and panic for a while then come to her rescue. And tell her not to wonder around again as the next time she might have to sleep in the store.

It worked for me when I was small.

Explorer

Lol; I vividly remember when I was 5 and got lost in an overcrowded beach in Italy. 3 nightmare hours.

If you have the gut to do it I can say it works, maybe 3 years old is not enough though

Yeah, I also had the horrifying experience of getting lost on a crowded beach at around 4-5 years old. I approached some elderly ladies and they took me to the kid's lost and found compound. Sat there crying for a few hours. The aunt that came to pick me up is still my favorite aunty. But, I continued to wander off. I just developed a better sense of where I was going by memorizing landmarks.

You definitely have to get a handle on this Neeranm, because children and little girls with their dads can figure out quite deftly if they are a pushover or not. She is right at the age where this can establish a pattern with you for life. My father pushed a plaid dress on me at this age and to this day I despise plaid

Anyway, not to make light of your situation, but do not underestimate the emotional control little girls can sense with their fathers very early on.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks to all who overlooked or ignored my rash remarks, but I wrote them carefully.

One of the few lessons I learned, raising kids and supervising youth and teaching students: there is no such thing as a threat. If you're in charge, a prophecy of what you are going to do, if they disobey, is not a threat. It's either a promise, or it's a lie.

I lied a lot, failing to follow through. Therefore, the kids kept trying to make a truth-teller out of me, by continually testing my threats to see what I really meant. They might not obey, but at least they needed to know what the real rules were.

[Tarragona]

My mother has spanked her, my mother-in-law and my wife both use the stick on her from time to time, which I agree with, but I can never do it.

My wife used to spank our daughter (now 13). Like you, I often agreed with it but never did it. But I didn't threaten to do it either. A few sharp words from me could reduce her to floods of tears because she knew I rarely got angry and when I was it must be serious. I felt my wife did enough of the smacking and that it didn't need both of us to be doing that. My wife was always quite happy with the way of things once she got used to it.

[seonai]

Personally I have a big thing about smaking, I have done it a little in the last one year and I am not proud of that. I want to be able to discuss with my son, not smack him and teach him bad habits. One thing though..... my Father was very violent with me and it is the thing that has put me off smacking!

[tutsiwarrior]

my wife runs the show when we are in Thailand and when the kids (including all nieces and nephews that wander into our domain, which is extensive) misbehave in a serious way, like in upsetting their parents, she is very harsh...the broom handle comes out real quick...

I don't agree with this approach and have separated the wife from the offending kid on more than one occasion...my feeling is that violence solves nothing, and if it ever did it would simply demonstrate to the victim that the same method of conflict resolution would be effective and available to them as well when they had the power. I like the quiet exclusion approach to bad manners. However...the question being, how correct is it to apply falang sensibilities in a rural Thai environment?...probably groundless in their eyes and with limited effect.

Again...I don't want to highjack the thread but we got some similar considerations...

Edited May 9, 2006 by tutsiwarrior

[thaibebop]

I'm non-violent, but a disobedient three year old may still be okay to restrain rather forcefully, and maybe strike or spank without causing a welt. I finally decided that one strike proved the point, and after that, even a second strike was just violent child-beating. If they won't understand one strike, they won't understand the second or tenth, except that you are teaching them that their best adult role models are violent thugs who get their way by hitting, punching, kicking, killing, torturing, etc.

Now, we can get the opinions of the violent folks who aren't non-violent. Disclaimer, though: kids below the age of 3 don't understand rationality or long explanations, and a spank or even two isn't excessive, in my arrogant opinion.

I raised six kids who are raising ten kids, and our biggest mistakes have always been spoiling our children. We were usually too LAZY to figure out effective non-violent ways of raising children to be obedient. That's our fault as parents. Beating kids requires no intelligence or love at all.

I agree, a parent need only strike to get the child's attention and make it know they are doing wrong. Anything harder is wrong and more than once is wrong, anything than an open hand is wrong as well. With an open hand you can control the strike, with an object, not so much. Sometimes I spank so lightly that my daughter laughs at me, yet she stops doing whatever it was she was doing.

I would suggest to try using your voice more. Changing your voice when she is getting into trouble can help. She will hear the change and know she is in trouble and most of the time that will work and you don't have to spank.

Don't worry too much about a scene, you need to be a parent first. If it's bad take her from the store. If she won't stay next to you, a good punishment would be to hold her hand and not let her go on her own each time she runs away. Like time out, ya know. You can put her in the shopping cart or hold her in your arms. Try all these things first before you spank. Spanking should be last resort, always.

[thaibebop]

My mother has spanked her, my mother-in-law and my wife both use the stick on her from time to time, which I agree with, but I can never do it.

My wife used to spank our daughter (now 13). Like you, I often agreed with it but never did it. But I didn't threaten to do it either. A few sharp words from me could reduce her to floods of tears because she knew I rarely got angry and when I was it must be serious. I felt my wife did enough of the smacking and that it didn't need both of us to be doing that. My wife was always quite happy with the way of things once she got used to it.

This is a good point. A parents displeasure is often punishment enough, but a parent has to develop that kind of relationship early on, for you your child is not close to you they will not seek your approval.

[kat]

Thanks to all who overlooked or ignored my rash remarks, but I wrote them carefully.

One of the few lessons I learned, raising kids and supervising youth and teaching students: there is no such thing as a threat. If you're in charge, a prophecy of what you are going to do, if they disobey, is not a threat. It's either a promise, or it's a lie.

I lied a lot, failing to follow through. Therefore, the kids kept trying to make a truth-teller out of me, by continually testing my threats to see what I really meant. They might not obey, but at least they needed to know what the real rules were.

This is so true. Kids need rules or boundaries. Once they are tried and tested, I think they appreciate them and their parents a great deal.

Personally I have a big thing about smaking, I have done it a little in the last one year and I am not proud of that. I want to be able to discuss with my son, not smack him and teach him bad habits. One thing though..... my Father was very violent with me and it is the thing that has put me off smacking!

Yeah, my dad used to smack and hit me with a belt as well. Sometimes it was far too quickly. It's a shame, because this affected our relationship later on as I got older.

This is a good point. A parents displeasure is often punishment enough, but a parent has to develop that kind of relationship early on, for you your child is not close to you they will not seek your approval.

I think this is an excellent point. It's about the quality of your full relationship, even when you are not angry. I don't have children, but I have loads of nieces and nephews, and my family use to always use me as the threat of discipline. And they never crossed the line with me. Why? Because I played with them and talked to them, but I also had clearly defined boundaries that I warned them about. But also, I know it is also much different if you are the aunt. But here's the thing: I was close to my nieces and nephews, when they were young they would straighten up as soon as I was used as a threat by my family, and I never hit one of them once.

[tutsiwarrior]

Thanks to all who overlooked or ignored my rash remarks, but I wrote them carefully.

One of the few lessons I learned, raising kids and supervising youth and teaching students: there is no such thing as a threat. If you're in charge, a prophecy of what you are going to do, if they disobey, is not a threat. It's either a promise, or it's a lie.

I lied a lot, failing to follow through. Therefore, the kids kept trying to make a truth-teller out of me, by continually testing my threats to see what I really meant. They might not obey, but at least they needed to know what the real rules were.

This is so true. Kids need rules or boundaries. Once they are tried and tested, I think they appreciate them and their parents a great deal.

Personally I have a big thing about smaking, I have done it a little in the last one year and I am not proud of that. I want to be able to discuss with my son, not smack him and teach him bad habits. One thing though..... my Father was very violent with me and it is the thing that has put me off smacking!

Yeah, my dad used to smack and hit me with a belt as well. Sometimes it was far too quickly. It's a shame, because this affected our relationship later on as I got older.

This is a good point. A parents displeasure is often punishment enough, but a parent has to develop that kind of relationship early on, for you your child is not close to you they will not seek your approval.

I think this is an excellent point. It's about the quality of your full relationship, even when you are not angry. I don't have children, but I have loads of nieces and nephews, and my family use to always use me as the threat of discipline. And they never crossed the line with me. Why? Because I played with them and talked to them, but I also had clearly defined boundaries that I warned them about. But also, I know it is also much different if you are the aunt. But here's the thing: I was close to my nieces and nephews, when they were young they would straighten up as soon as I was used as a threat by my family, and I never hit one of them once.

I respect you Kat, but sometimes you frighten me...(because I'd be the nephew that you never got thru to and that you had to give a whuppin' to)

[britmaveric]

I was a right devil when I was lil one - luckily I straightened out after a few belt whippings or with plastic spatula. Got to the point when all me parents had to do was look at me and I behaved.

Granted today dare say you'd be reported by a meddler or your lil one themselves. I deserved what I got - certainly made me the man I am today. (not fked up either)

Anyways back to original question.... grab a harness. (works well with my niece)

[skylar]

I like the quiet exclusion approach to bad manners.

It's interesting that you mention that. Denying someone's place in society is certainly an effective method of reining in a wayward member... however I wonder how many times this non-confrontational approach works. If it's a problem case where a child is consistently misbehaving then I would be concerned that the effect of such treatment would alienate them permanently from their community, which is not a good thing in Thai society since families are much more interdependent than in Western society.

[kat]

I respect you Kat, but sometimes you frighten me...(because I'd be the nephew that you never got thru to and that you had to give a whuppin' to)

Nah, I have a few little nieces that are like that now, because they're too young to know my "legendary" status in the family. Love them to death. I love children with spirit. I especially love winning them over.

Why, do you need a whuppin' now Tutsti

I was a right devil when I was lil one - luckily I straightened out after a few belt whippings or with plastic spatula. Got to the point when all me parents had to do was look at me and I behaved.

Granted today dare say you'd be reported by a meddler or your lil one themselves. I deserved what I got - certainly made me the man I am today. (not fked up either)

Anyways back to original question.... grab a harness. (works well with my niece)

A spatula - that's a good one How could you keep yourself from not cracking up laughing, like when my mom used to chase me around the kitchen table.

I like the quiet exclusion approach to bad manners.

It's interesting that you mention that. Denying someone's place in society is certainly an effective method of reining in a wayward member... however I wonder how many times this non-confrontational approach works. If it's a problem case where a child is consistently misbehaving then I would be concerned that the effect of such treatment would alienate them permanently from their community, which is not a good thing in Thai society since families are much more interdependent than in Western society.

I like the quiet exclusion bit too, like when you get sent to your room. Problem is, kids can have too much fun off by themselves, but if they stay around you while angry they use passive/aggressive tactics. I guess the best thing is to ignore them until they start displaying appropriate behavior and attitudes.

[thaibebop]

I respect you Kat, but sometimes you frighten me...(because I'd be the nephew that you never got thru to and that you had to give a whuppin' to)

Nah, I have a few little nieces that are like that now, because they're too young to know my "legendary" status in the family. Love them to death. I love children with spirit. I especially love winning them over.

Why, do you need a whuppin' now Tutsti

I was a right devil when I was lil one - luckily I straightened out after a few belt whippings or with plastic spatula. Got to the point when all me parents had to do was look at me and I behaved.

Granted today dare say you'd be reported by a meddler or your lil one themselves. I deserved what I got - certainly made me the man I am today. (not fked up either)

Anyways back to original question.... grab a harness. (works well with my niece)

A spatula - that's a good one How could you keep yourself from not cracking up laughing, like when my mom used to chase me around the kitchen table.

I like the quiet exclusion approach to bad manners.

It's interesting that you mention that. Denying someone's place in society is certainly an effective method of reining in a wayward member... however I wonder how many times this non-confrontational approach works. If it's a problem case where a child is consistently misbehaving then I would be concerned that the effect of such treatment would alienate them permanently from their community, which is not a good thing in Thai society since families are much more interdependent than in Western society.

I like the quiet exclusion bit too, like when you get sent to your room. Problem is, kids can have too much fun off by themselves, but if they stay around you while angry they use passive/aggressive tactics. I guess the best thing is to ignore them until they start displaying appropriate behavior and attitudes.

You gotta put them in the same room with you during time out so they cannot escape your displeasure and yet still feel isolated.

[britmaveric]

A spatula - that's a good one How could you keep yourself from not cracking up laughing, like when my mom used to chase me around the kitchen table.

Kat - funny bit was my mum broke a few smacking me with them and that pissed her off even more.

-great line from me mum/dad always when punishment was on its way - this is going to hurt me more than its going to hurt you.

Edited May 11, 2006 by britmaveric

[bina]

we got the wooden spoon; also been chased around the dinner table

if we misbehaved at the table, we got sent to 'exile' (an inner joke as it was during the time when the iron curtain in russia was down and people got sent to siberia /exile and we used to march in protests..), which was the kitchen counter top with tall chairs, we had to eat there , close to the table but not included.

if we temper tantrumed, we were left to lay on the floor and scream until we finished.... too bad i couldnt use some of these techniques w/my three... spoiled brats....

btw, anyone know how to say : "spoiled" ... besides taam jai luuk.... like a spoiled dog, or adult?

[tutsiwarrior]

quote Kat:

Why, do you need a whuppin' now Tutsti

unquote

Edited May 12, 2006 by tutsiwarrior

[Thaiboxer]

Lots of great posts on here regarding discipline. There is a saying in Thai what when translated means something to this effect: If you love your cow you will tie it up. If you love your kids, you will hit them. Of course, there must be some sort of standard; kids who are smacked, spanked or whatever all the time can certainly develop animosity towards their parents which can lead to them being abusive as adults.

Keeping kids restrained when in public is a good idea, not just for discipline's sake but also for the safety. My mom had to literally tackle me once when I decided to make a quick dash for the street. If kids get really fussy, perhaps the best thing is to just head home. In regards to spanking, the spanking part wasn't so bad...a little pain and that was it. It was the feeling before the spanking that was the toughest part of the punishment...my dad would send me into my room with instructions to wait till he got there (usually just 5 mins or so). It was during that time that I was really on edge. After the spanking was over it was a relief! Like some say, it often hurts the parent more than the child.

Now that we have a son, I'm very interested in hearing from those Thai-Farang couples who are in the same situation. Our son isn't old enough to be a little devil yet, but I sure don't want him to end up like those spoiled, little demons I used to teach. Many of the kids today need to be beaten with closed fists, knees and elbows...a spanking would be too kind

[meadish_sweetball]

Let her learn a lesson of being lost the next time you go to a supermarket, make sure she don't see you watching her movements though. Let her cry and panic for a while then come to her rescue. And tell her not to wonder around again as the next time she might have to sleep in the store.

It worked for me when I was small.

Explorer

Lol; I vividly remember when I was 5 and got lost in an overcrowded beach in Italy. 3 nightmare hours.

If you have the gut to do it I can say it works, maybe 3 years old is not enough though

heh, we must have the same horoscope or something. Same thing happened to me when I was 5, on a beach in Sicily. Boy did that feeling suck!

[chuchok]

Personally, I hate the idea of hitting children. However, I must say that when I was 16 it worked on me.

My father asked me to sweep a path around the house before I could go to a mates place.After doing the job in record time, he told me to do it again.I then told himthat if he said that to me again, I would shove the broom where the sun don't shine. He told me that if I said that again to him he would drop me with one punch.I said again,he dropped.

Guess who never mentioned broom handles and anatomy to his father again....

[meadish_sweetball]

Er, unless you had done a REALLY crappy job, it sounds like your Dad was trying to bully you and would have deserved the medicine you promised him.

[chuchok]

Er, unless you had done a REALLY crappy job, it sounds like your Dad was trying to bully you and would have deserved the medicine you promised him.

On looking back, I would have to say the job was at best crappy.Took me about 5 mins and I was taking the piss.most people it would take 25 mins.

He was not a bully, but he did take exception to me telling him that I would shove a broom up his jacksie..i used to think I was a bit "hard" when I was younger .It was the only time the old fella wacked me , and it made me think that I was not so tough after all......

[meadish_sweetball]

Fair enough.

[Nawtilus]

A harness...just like a puppy hey. I hate these things, really if you cannot control your child to the extend they need a dog leash, stay home.

I saw a guy with his Thai missus walking down Sukhumvit the other day with one on his child. This would have to be the first time I have seen one used for well over a decade and even then it was probably another decade earlier for the last time. He looked like the kind of dropkick that needed a leash himself.

Not sure if I am lucky or not, my 4yo boy and I have a great relationship and he is great to behave, he has his moments, but on average is great most of the time.

I started early with him and I also think of things in advance and try to foresee any possible problems and talk to him about them first. I find this helps more than anything in setting his mind to be ready for it and he is conditioned to what might happen or what is expected to happen...some examples that happened today and a few days ago.

Like any kid, he has many toys, he is not spoiled, he has enough for his age to keep him vary busy. Like any child, you always want more and you always want what you see in the toy shops.

This has happened before, but I decide to take him to a toy shop, not to buy anything, just to look. How many kids will go with this plan and see it through without changing their minds, crying, or wanting everything in sight.

Before we go there, I say to him "do you want to go to the toy shop and have a look around and play with some toys, but only looking and playing ok, no buying today ok" he may say yes, or he may say why not buy something today, or even ok but if we see something really special can I get it. I say to him "no, we are only looking and you can play today ok, otherwise we not go ok" he says ok, we go, he looks, he plays and after 15 minutes he is happy to walk out of the shop all smiles and happy, not even asking to buy something.

Haircuts, he hates it and puts on the tears big time. His mum always took him and 2 haircuts ago I went along and sure enough, crying. Last week I said to him that on the weekend we will go and get a haircut together, his hair was getting long and so was mine. He says no. I kept talking him into it and said that we will get together at the same time. Eventually the day arrive, we got the haircut and he smiled and laughed all the while through it.

Other times when things are going wrong, I sit him down on my lap and talk to him gently about it. I aslo threaten to send him to his room and stay alone to think about what he has done. First time I did this was over a year ago and it worked so well, that even the threat of it has him doing what he is asked to do no questions asked. I have not had to send him to his room for over a year, except for 2 nights ago for the first time for a long time.

Smacking, I can count on 2 hands the number of times I have smacked him, I can count on 2 fingers the number of times I have smacked him very hard on the backside. It hurt me more than it hurt him that was for sure.

My old man had the strap, got it accross the hands and raw backside many times. Mum had the wooden spoon. I grew up ok, but would never do it to my kids, I could not ever.

As for your child running of in shops, I am not sure what to do to stop it in the immediate future, parenting is something that develops between you and your kids, not something that you can do overnight to make a fixit solution. My son and I have developed in a way that I can talk to him and he will then do almost anything in the correct manner, with slight variations for youth and the learning curve.

Now the way my son behaves and listens to me, is proff that it is not just the child that is the cause of any tantrums or misbehaving.

Whereas I can take him to a toy shop and he will be fine with walking away with nothing, if he goes alone with his mum, he has and probably will again put on a turn for something he wants. He comes home and she says he was so bad, crying and carrying on to get what he wants. She then gives in, does not have the same relationship I guess with him and cannot reason around it and he wins.

This has never happened to me with him. So it is proof that your shild running amok is more in line with how you have brought her up to understand some things.

Anyway, looking after kids is an awesome experience, I love it and we now have a little girl to do it all over again with. I am terrified that she may get away with more than he ever did. Daddy's little girl and all.