Keeping Track Of Serious Crimes Against Foreigners

[Tippaporn]

Recruit Maxwell Smart

55555555! That's a real good start.

Edited May 8, 2006 by Tippaporn

[jdinasia]

if you are talking about serious crimes , i.e. those involving some degree of violence , then wouldnt the relevant embassy be informed and thus have the information.

this information would be in the public domain and therefore accessible to any data gatherers.

Ummm IF the case were reported ... and IF the embassy was willing to give out the info ... etc etc ....

This horse just won't run ..... too complicated .. covering way too many variables ...

[GuestHouse]

This horse just won't run ..... too complicated .. covering way too many variables ...

Or is it that you would rather it did not run, just incase it comes in ahead?

[jdinasia]

Nope ... just stating simple facts re: logistics ..... reporting ..... research .... contacts .....

I'd be happy to see statistics kept ... just aint gonna happen

[wolf5370]

Anythings a start. Things like this are pften started informally. They either whither away or end up as respected information sources (as the data, processes, sources etc are all tightened up). If it is never started, it has no chance at all.

[jdinasia]

There ya go GH ... you have lots of approval to start your project!

You have one helluva challenge in front of you! Made doubly difficult to be running it from the UK ... but when you get it up to something useful I will get you server space

[elGrande]

I agree it would be a good idea to have these statistics.

While it may be true many farangs in Thailand are basically idiots we do not know if this is a contributing factor in the causeof these attacks.

[cobra]

It's a good idea and timely,

Once it's in place it shouldn't take much to maintain it,

[udon]

Why do you need any record ? It's not your country, it's not your homeland, so, if you don't feel well here you can emigrate ?

Hmm, you sure know how to ingratiate yourself to members of this forum.

I wouldn't worry Udon, I think he just got a short "holiday" for a particularly nasty post (deleted)

...and now back to crime

I'm very sad to announce that K. Wally has left us for pastures brown.

I'm sure he will be sadly missed.

[Tippaporn]

While it may be true many farangs in Thailand are basically idiots we do not know if this is a contributing factor in the causeof these attacks.

I'd gander to say in every case.

Edited May 8, 2006 by Tippaporn

[Mighty Mouse]

To all those in favour of this concept, please explain how you intend to gather the statistics.

Explain how you intend to categorize the statistics and explain what you intend to use as a yardstick to trigger action.

Then explain how you as individuals gathering statistics can improve upon the statistics being gathered right across Thailand by the police and other official Thai agencies.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just request one of the Thai authorities to supply you with crime statistics?

In Western countries, crime statistics are released by governments on a regular basis. Police will also provide statistics on local crimes to neighbourhood committees.

If that can be done in the West, it can also be done in Thailand.

[backflip]

Three years ago, 50 thousand students from mainland China moved to Australia to study. In one year 1,000 of the students died. The Chinese government launched an intensive investigation to see if the cause was racism, or something more nefarious. As it turned out, ALL of the students were killed while riding bicycles. In China, bike riders regularly cut off buses and cars without thinking. When the students tried that in Australia, they were struck by vehicles and killed.

[jdinasia]

To all those in favour of this concept, please explain how you intend to gather the statistics.

Explain how you intend to categorize the statistics and explain what you intend to use as a yardstick to trigger action.

Then explain how you as individuals gathering statistics can improve upon the statistics being gathered right across Thailand by the police and other official Thai agencies.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just request one of the Thai authorities to supply you with crime statistics?

In Western countries, crime statistics are released by governments on a regular basis. Police will also provide statistics on local crimes to neighbourhood committees.

If that can be done in the West, it can also be done in Thailand.

LOL ... If it can be done in the west ..... not a very accurate statement there either .....

I still say this horse cannot run .... The Gov't could do it ... or maybe a BIG NGO with good contacts ... but that's about it ... (and why would the Gov't do this? too much negative potential impact to tourism!

(The offer for hosting it online is still open though)

[Mighty Mouse]

LOL ... If it can be done in the west ..... not a very accurate statement there either .....

I still say this horse cannot run .... The Gov't could do it ... or maybe a BIG NGO with good contacts ... but that's about it ... (and why would the Gov't do this? too much negative potential impact to tourism!

Here in Australia the Govt. releases crime stats regularly. The general feeling is that the figures are a bit rubbery to make the governments crime fighting efforts look good.

The local police stations also release local crime stats. These come straight from computer records and are accurate. These are given freely to local councils and local neighbourhood committees.

The Govt. obtains its statistics from the police computers but like all numbers, you can bend them to support any argument.

The police themselves use them to target any crime that is getting out of hand and/or to ensure that they have enough available resources in areas of concern.

The big problem with crime statistics is that so many (minor) crimes go unreported. This will be the case in Thailand also. Therefore nobody can gain a true picture of criminal/illegal activities.

I notice that the supporters of the OP's idea, and the OP himself, have so far failed to answer the questions in my last post. That indicates to me that there has not been too much thought put into this idea.

[Tippaporn]

May as well get to the bottom line . . . who's going to be paying for the efforts? And the efforts would be massive.

[jdinasia]

even a better question ... who's gonna DO the work? I nominate the OP!

[Scott]

The job would be a big one for whomever decides to do it, but for people who are interested in this sort of thing, it may be more fun than work. I am not one who is interested in doing it, however. It might be a matter of doing some research as to who keeps what kind of records.

Embassies from the various countries no doubt keep stats on crimes against their nationals. These are probably reported from Thai police. It might be possible to get these stats as a starting point.

Best of Luck to whoever takes on the project.

[Tippaporn]

even a better question ... who's gonna DO the work? I nominate the OP!

And Maxwell Smart.

[jdinasia]

lol Tippaporn

I really do think it is a great Idea! I just don't think it is in anyway Feasible! That the guy bringing it up isn't in Thailand doesn't help either unless he can recruit someone to do it ....

wait .... GH ... <serious answer here> what about Lukamar 's group?

[Tippaporn]

Well, if someone has a heartfelt desire to do something I won't decry them. I, myself, rather detest statistics for a variety of reasons. I'd aver that more often than not they're misleading.

[qualtrough]

Three years ago, 50 thousand students from mainland China moved to Australia to study. In one year 1,000 of the students died. The Chinese government launched an intensive investigation to see if the cause was racism, or something more nefarious. As it turned out, ALL of the students were killed while riding bicycles. In China, bike riders regularly cut off buses and cars without thinking. When the students tried that in Australia, they were struck by vehicles and killed.

Complete &lt;deleted&gt;. Where did you get this-from some e-mail? Do some checking first before you post rubbish like this.

[Sing_Sling]

Three years ago, 50 thousand students from mainland China moved to Australia to study. In one year 1,000 of the students died. The Chinese government launched an intensive investigation to see if the cause was racism, or something more nefarious. As it turned out, ALL of the students were killed while riding bicycles. In China, bike riders regularly cut off buses and cars without thinking. When the students tried that in Australia, they were struck by vehicles and killed.

Please share with us where you got this tidbit. 50,000 students? 1,000 killed bicycling?

[backflip]

CCTV9, the only English language channel cable TV program in mainland China, hosts "Dialogue", a cross between "Meet the Press" and "Point/Counterpoint". A couple weeks ago, a couple Ministers from the governement discussed the problems with allowing more cross-culteral educational and travel opportunities for those living in mainland China. I tidbit I shared was one they mentioned. Their solution was to introduce better education and training for "sharing the road" with other vehicles. Fat chance.

[Sing_Sling]

CCTV9, the only English language channel cable TV program in mainland China, hosts "Dialogue", a cross between "Meet the Press" and "Point/Counterpoint". A couple weeks ago, a couple Ministers from the governement discussed the problems with allowing more cross-culteral educational and travel opportunities for those living in mainland China. I tidbit I shared was one they mentioned. Their solution was to introduce better education and training for "sharing the road" with other vehicles. Fat chance.

Chinese statistics are as valid as their economic central planning.

Do you not think that 1000 dead mainland Chinese cyclists might have made the news in Australia? How about 500? 100? 50? Of course they would have.

I have asked my brother, who works at our embassy in Beijing, where they could have dreamed up such figures . . . His response was simply that they make it up for whetever their purpose may be.

[Ulysses G.]

CCTV9, the only English language channel cable TV program in mainland China, hosts "Dialogue", a cross between "Meet the Press" and "Point/Counterpoint". A couple weeks ago, a couple Ministers from the governement discussed the problems with allowing more cross-culteral educational and travel opportunities for those living in mainland China. I tidbit I shared was one they mentioned. Their solution was to introduce better education and training for "sharing the road" with other vehicles. Fat chance.

When I was a bicycle messenger in San Francisco, many years ago, we had problems with new messengers who didn't realize that the Chinese would just walk out in the road without checking for oncoming vehicles. Some new guy would run into one that stepped in front of him almost every single day!

Edited May 10, 2006 by Ulysses G.

[fanciman]

I'm still curious as to why a number of TV members are so hostile to a suggestion that aims to quantify Crime against foreigners - What reason might they have for not wanting such an index to be made?

I think the answer stares us in the face: these hostile members are clearly the perpetrators of the many violent crimes against foreigners in Thailand.

[fanciman]

I think the database is a good idea:

1

*unreported* crime could be reported here. Many crimes are not put through official processing, and there are a variety of reasons for this. A centralized, open-source information bank could help develop awareness.

2

Crime holds a fascination for people. Look at the media, which people pay to read/view: a lot of it is concerned with crime. People are interested in reading about crimes, and are particularly thrilled when it happens in their neighbourhood.

3

This is a grass-roots initiative. Most information we receive is sent down to us from powerful entities up above, with vested interests, and particular spin on events. This is a chance to help reverse the flow of information, bringing news from the people, and from 'less important' regions; the sort of information that wouldn't ordinarily receive prominence, because the people victimised have no sway in events due to their lack of power and influence.

[Tippaporn]

I'm still curious as to why a number of TV members are so hostile to a suggestion that aims to quantify Crime against foreigners - What reason might they have for not wanting such an index to be made?

I think the answer stares us in the face: these hostile members are clearly the perpetrators of the many violent crimes against foreigners in Thailand.

What????

[Mighty Mouse]

People are interested in reading about crimes, and are particularly thrilled when it happens in their neighbourhood.

Are you thrilled when your neighbour across the road gets his throat slit?

Are you thrilled when the house next door to you is machine gunned?

Are you thrilled when that cute little four year old girl down the road gets raped?

I know I'll be thrilled when you wake up to yourself !!!

[Master Chief]

The question is that maybe a list or webpage like that would be held against us foreigners, as I can remember we do most of the crimes to our likes, then thais do it to foreigners? Is there not a risk that the Thai goverment and Thais in general will have the clear facts in hand and kick us for that reason?

Or am I wrong?