Who should pay for the damage?

[Paangjang]

I rent a motorbike for my girlfriend on a monthly basis. Last week, whilst the bike was parked in front of her shop we heard a bang. The Foreman of the Burmese construction team working next door had hit it with his truck. There didn't seem to be any major damage, just scratches and a few split pieces of plastic.

The old Thai guy accepted responsibility and we all waited for the rental company owner to arrive. Basically i thought the best thing to do was to leave the negotiations for those 2 parties to discuss. After a big argument the driver agreed to fix all damage but said he would get it done by his friend to save him money. They agreed it would be done on the morning of the 24th. We switched our bike for a different one, as the rental lady had no problem with us. Long story short, the driver didn't show up on the 24th so the rental operator got it fixed by their people. The bill given to the truck driver was ฿4000. He says he will only pay ฿2000. Therefore the rental operator told my girlfriend that i should be the one paying for all the damage.

My questions are who should pay the 4k and if i don't pay it what legal steps can she take or should i take? Shes already I know its not a large amount of money but i don't want to have to pay for someone else’s accident. The bike was parked on our property when he swung by and hit it.

[ajs500]

Whatever anyone else tells and advises I believe that you alone will end up paying, no matter what.

[Paangjang]

Whatever anyone else tells and advises I believe that you alone will end up paying, no matter what.

On what basis, legal or racial?

[ajs500]

Whatever anyone else tells and advises I believe that you alone will end up paying, no matter what.

On what basis, legal or racial?

Legal ? Legal ? what has that to do with such a minor matter ?, nor racial , just that's how things are here.

I said I believe, not know.

[Paangjang]

Whatever anyone else tells and advises I believe that you alone will end up paying, no matter what.

On what basis, legal or racial?

Legal ? Legal ? what has that to do with such a minor matter ?, nor racial , just that's how things are here.

I said I believe, not know.

Because the rental lady is saying the guy who hit it says he won't pay. Therefore she wants me to go to the police station with her....

[Hedghog]

INSURANCE.

Presume you had some.

[Hedghog]

A classic leg lifter story.

Thai lifts leg of Farang.

Money appears.

Similar to an ATM machine.

[Paangjang]

A classic leg lifter story.

Thai lifts leg of Farang.

Money appears.

Similar to an ATM machine.

So, whats your advice?

[CharlieH]

My view, you hired the bike and are therefore responsible for it, if it gets damaged its your problem initially.

Assuming the bike is insured, you report it to the bike shop, they file a claim, the insurance company chases whoever did the damage.

I would co operate as much as possible with the rental people and whatever procedure they have, but wouldnt part with a dime unless it was in the rental agreement re excess or whatever, thats why you paid insurance, (assuming you did).

[mogandave]

Whatever anyone else tells and advises I believe that you alone will end up paying, no matter what.

On what basis, legal or racial?

Legal ? Legal ? what has that to do with such a minor matter ?, nor racial , just that's how things are here.

I said I believe, not know.

Because the rental lady is saying the guy who hit it says he won't pay. Therefore she wants me to go to the police station with her....

Does she want you to go to the police with her of does she want you to pay the money?

I think you owe it to her to do one or the other, but not both.

[Paangjang]

My view, you hired the bike and are therefore responsible for it, if it gets damaged its your problem initially.

Assuming the bike is insured, you report it to the bike shop, they file a claim, the insurance company chases whoever did the damage.

I would co operate as much as possible with the rental people and whatever procedure they have, but wouldnt part with a dime unless it was in the rental agreement re excess or whatever, thats why you paid insurance, (assuming you did).

Not sure if the bike is insured or not, i didn't get an option whether to pay extra or not... I'm trying to find my old copy of the contract.

[Paangjang]

Does she want you to go to the police with her of does she want you to pay the money?

I think you owe it to her to do one or the other, but not both.

She say's the truck driver thinks i should pay it for him therfore, either i pay it or she'll get the police involved...

[CharlieH]

My view, you hired the bike and are therefore responsible for it, if it gets damaged its your problem initially.

Assuming the bike is insured, you report it to the bike shop, they file a claim, the insurance company chases whoever did the damage.

I would co operate as much as possible with the rental people and whatever procedure they have, but wouldnt part with a dime unless it was in the rental agreement re excess or whatever, thats why you paid insurance, (assuming you did).

Not sure if the bike is insured or not, i didn't get an option whether to pay extra or not... I'm trying to find my old copy of the contract.

If the bike isnt insured, you are responsible, thats it, nothing to debate, you hired it, your problem, Try to find the paperwork, other than that try to negotiate the best you can, but you will pay !

[Paangjang]

My view, you hired the bike and are therefore responsible for it, if it gets damaged its your problem initially.

Assuming the bike is insured, you report it to the bike shop, they file a claim, the insurance company chases whoever did the damage.

I would co operate as much as possible with the rental people and whatever procedure they have, but wouldnt part with a dime unless it was in the rental agreement re excess or whatever, thats why you paid insurance, (assuming you did).

Not sure if the bike is insured or not, i didn't get an option whether to pay extra or not... I'm trying to find my old copy of the contract.

If the bike isnt insured, you are responsible, thats it, nothing to debate, you hired it, your problem, Try to find the paperwork, other than that try to negotiate the best you can, but you will pay !

Ok if its as straight cut as you say it is, i mean the law here. Then looks like i'll be paying for it. So in the future, if i hit someone then decide not to pay for any damage, there is nothing they can do about it (unless they have insurance?)

[Loptr]

Return the rental bike to the owner and pay any legitimate balance. Tell them you won't pay the 2000 baht and will find another bike to rent. Then walk away. Do not be angry, in fact smile as you are doing it.

[Loptr]

My view, you hired the bike and are therefore responsible for it, if it gets damaged its your problem initially.

Assuming the bike is insured, you report it to the bike shop, they file a claim, the insurance company chases whoever did the damage.

I would co operate as much as possible with the rental people and whatever procedure they have, but wouldnt part with a dime unless it was in the rental agreement re excess or whatever, thats why you paid insurance, (assuming you did).

Not sure if the bike is insured or not, i didn't get an option whether to pay extra or not... I'm trying to find my old copy of the contract.

If the bike isnt insured, you are responsible, thats it, nothing to debate, you hired it, your problem, Try to find the paperwork, other than that try to negotiate the best you can, but you will pay !

I had a bike rental company try this on me a few years ago. See my response above. They have zero recourse, unless you are dumb enough to give them your passport as collateral.

[Paangjang]

My view, you hired the bike and are therefore responsible for it, if it gets damaged its your problem initially.

Assuming the bike is insured, you report it to the bike shop, they file a claim, the insurance company chases whoever did the damage.

I would co operate as much as possible with the rental people and whatever procedure they have, but wouldnt part with a dime unless it was in the rental agreement re excess or whatever, thats why you paid insurance, (assuming you did).

Not sure if the bike is insured or not, i didn't get an option whether to pay extra or not... I'm trying to find my old copy of the contract.

If the bike isnt insured, you are responsible, thats it, nothing to debate, you hired it, your problem, Try to find the paperwork, other than that try to negotiate the best you can, but you will pay !

I had a bike rental company try this on me a few years ago. See my response above. They have zero recourse, unless you are dumb enough to give them your passport as collateral.

Just to point out, they don't have my passport.

[crumpled]

Surely this has to depend on the contract for the hire of the bike? If the contract says you are liable for any damage to the bike, then they have you if you have failed to insure it.

In the same way if you rent a car from some company (Avis or whoever) and refuse / fail to pay the insurance.

Another point here is the truck driver did offer to pay for the repair as long as his friend did the repairs. That in itself is an agreement. The fact he did not turn up suggests he broke the agreement and considering he agreed it was his fault, he should pay.

In all honesty, I'd try to be reasonable with the hirer but do so via the g/f. I'd let her handle the matter, they do seem able to sort these things out Thai on Thai to everyone's satisfaction.

[PeterSmiles]

I agree that if you rent a bike that you are responsible for it, however since the truck driver who caused the damage has been identified and agreed with the rental company that he was at fault, I can't see any point how the OP can be held responsible.

By the way, the truck driver will have insurance which will pay for the damage.

Edited November 26, 2013 by PeterSmiles

[Paangjang]

Surely this has to depend on the contract for the hire of the bike? If the contract says you are liable for any damage to the bike, then they have you if you have failed to insure it.

In the same way if you rent a car from some company (Avis or whoever) and refuse / fail to pay the insurance.

Another point here is the truck driver did offer to pay for the repair as long as his friend did the repairs. That in itself is an agreement. The fact he did not turn up suggests he broke the agreement and considering he agreed it was his fault, he should pay.

In all honesty, I'd try to be reasonable with the hirer but do so via the g/f. I'd let her handle the matter, they do seem able to sort these things out Thai on Thai to everyone's satisfaction.

I agree with both of your points made. I wasn't offered insurance therefore didn't get it. Also the truck driver did say he would pay it, however after the rental lady screwed him over by padding the bill he's now changed his mind. I don't really want to pay the bill then see him walk away scott free however not really sure im going to have much choice. Realisticly what will she/the police do if i don't pay it? Will the police really be very interested in this huge case?

[lemoncake]

Whatever anyone else tells and advises I believe that you alone will end up paying, no matter what.

On what basis, legal or racial?

Legal ? Legal ? what has that to do with such a minor matter ?, nor racial , just that's how things are here.

I said I believe, not know.

Because the rental lady is saying the guy who hit it says he won't pay. Therefore she wants me to go to the police station with her....

You should go to police with her, as you are a witness to an accident and negotiations.

[lemoncake]

INSURANCE.

Presume you had some.

Do tell what rental bikes come with insurance which covers property damage in an accident?

[lemoncake]

My view, you hired the bike and are therefore responsible for it, if it gets damaged its your problem initially.

Assuming the bike is insured, you report it to the bike shop, they file a claim, the insurance company chases whoever did the damage.

I would co operate as much as possible with the rental people and whatever procedure they have, but wouldnt part with a dime unless it was in the rental agreement re excess or whatever, thats why you paid insurance, (assuming you did).

Not sure if the bike is insured or not, i didn't get an option whether to pay extra or not... I'm trying to find my old copy of the contract.

If the bike isnt insured, you are responsible, thats it, nothing to debate, you hired it, your problem, Try to find the paperwork, other than that try to negotiate the best you can, but you will pay !

I do not think its true, because bike shop already got involved in negotiations. If bike shop stayed out of, then OP would be liable, but bike shop made the choice to make a deal and therefore OP is no longer liable.

I would work with the rental shop on pursuing the truck owner with the police, but i certainly would not be paying the difference

[Paangjang]

My view, you hired the bike and are therefore responsible for it, if it gets damaged its your problem initially.

Assuming the bike is insured, you report it to the bike shop, they file a claim, the insurance company chases whoever did the damage.

I would co operate as much as possible with the rental people and whatever procedure they have, but wouldnt part with a dime unless it was in the rental agreement re excess or whatever, thats why you paid insurance, (assuming you did).

Not sure if the bike is insured or not, i didn't get an option whether to pay extra or not... I'm trying to find my old copy of the contract.

If the bike isnt insured, you are responsible, thats it, nothing to debate, you hired it, your problem, Try to find the paperwork, other than that try to negotiate the best you can, but you will pay !

I do not think its true, because bike shop already got involved in negotiations. If bike shop stayed out of, then OP would be liable, but bike shop made the choice to make a deal and therefore OP is no longer liable.

I would work with the rental shop on pursuing the truck owner with the police, but i certainly would not be paying the difference

I think the problem is the bike owner knows the Thai guy either doesn't have 4k or he won't pay it. Therefore im the easier target right? I don't know whats going to happen tomorrow but i have a feeling she's going to forget all about the truck driver and come after me. I like what you said in your first paragraph but not sure how that would go down in the police station with the contract on the table...

[lemoncake]

Surely this has to depend on the contract for the hire of the bike? If the contract says you are liable for any damage to the bike, then they have you if you have failed to insure it.

In the same way if you rent a car from some company (Avis or whoever) and refuse / fail to pay the insurance.

Another point here is the truck driver did offer to pay for the repair as long as his friend did the repairs. That in itself is an agreement. The fact he did not turn up suggests he broke the agreement and considering he agreed it was his fault, he should pay.

In all honesty, I'd try to be reasonable with the hirer but do so via the g/f. I'd let her handle the matter, they do seem able to sort these things out Thai on Thai to everyone's satisfaction.

I agree with both of your points made. I wasn't offered insurance therefore didn't get it. Also the truck driver did say he would pay it, however after the rental lady screwed him over by padding the bill he's now changed his mind. I don't really want to pay the bill then see him walk away scott free however not really sure im going to have much choice. Realisticly what will she/the police do if i don't pay it? Will the police really be very interested in this huge case?

Make sure your GF comes with you and relays the story to police, make sure GF clearly states bike shop made the deal and then the deal fell through.

Make sure GF confirms AS A WITNESS all the details and take it from there.

I am certain police will not go after you , worst case scenario, they will advise bike shop to sue you, in which case you can then make the decision to either hire a lawyer or pay the difference.

I had bikes for rent and after accident, if i made the choice to negotiate the payment, but other party failed to pay, i could not go back to renter and claim the money(lesson was learned)

From there on, i never did any negotiations and left it up to renter to make the choice in case of accident.

[Paangjang]

Surely this has to depend on the contract for the hire of the bike? If the contract says you are liable for any damage to the bike, then they have you if you have failed to insure it.

In the same way if you rent a car from some company (Avis or whoever) and refuse / fail to pay the insurance.

Another point here is the truck driver did offer to pay for the repair as long as his friend did the repairs. That in itself is an agreement. The fact he did not turn up suggests he broke the agreement and considering he agreed it was his fault, he should pay.

In all honesty, I'd try to be reasonable with the hirer but do so via the g/f. I'd let her handle the matter, they do seem able to sort these things out Thai on Thai to everyone's satisfaction.

I agree with both of your points made. I wasn't offered insurance therefore didn't get it. Also the truck driver did say he would pay it, however after the rental lady screwed him over by padding the bill he's now changed his mind. I don't really want to pay the bill then see him walk away scott free however not really sure im going to have much choice. Realisticly what will she/the police do if i don't pay it? Will the police really be very interested in this huge case?

Make sure your GF comes with you and relays the story to police, make sure GF clearly states bike shop made the deal and then the deal fell through.

Make sure GF confirms AS A WITNESS all the details and take it from there.

I am certain police will not go after you , worst case scenario, they will advise bike shop to sue you, in which case you can then make the decision to either hire a lawyer or pay the difference.

I had bikes for rent and after accident, if i made the choice to negotiate the payment, but other party failed to pay, i could not go back to renter and claim the money(lesson was learned)

From there on, i never did any negotiations and left it up to renter to make the choice in case of accident.

Thanks, what do you mean by the highlighted text? "Could not" You mean legally or?...

[lemoncake]

I think the problem is the bike owner knows the Thai guy either doesn't have 4k or he won't pay it. Therefore im the easier target right? I don't know whats going to happen tomorrow but i have a feeling she's going to forget all about the truck driver and come after me. I like what you said in your first paragraph but not sure how that would go down in the police station with the contract on the table...

Understand where you coming from, but do not strees, worse case scenario you end up paying 4000 baht.

Stop worrying as they can smell the fear.

Police will not do anything, as i said before, make sure your GF comes along and explains the situation, clearly pointing out that bike shop ALREADY made an agreement, skipping/leaving you out of it.

Now that the bike shop can not recover, they can not claim it.

Also make sure GF , explains, because bike shop and truck made the deal, you were given another bike. If there was no deal, bike shop would not replace your broken bike without payment from you first.

You no longer liable to pay for anything, as bike shop can no longer prove what damage "you" caused, they exchanged the bike for you, without payment.

[Paangjang]

I think the problem is the bike owner knows the Thai guy either doesn't have 4k or he won't pay it. Therefore im the easier target right? I don't know whats going to happen tomorrow but i have a feeling she's going to forget all about the truck driver and come after me. I like what you said in your first paragraph but not sure how that would go down in the police station with the contract on the table...

Understand where you coming from, but do not strees, worse case scenario you end up paying 4000 baht.

Stop worrying as they can smell the fear.

Police will not do anything, as i said before, make sure your GF comes along and explains the situation, clearly pointing out that bike shop ALREADY made an agreement, skipping/leaving you out of it.

Now that the bike shop can not recover, they can not claim it.

Also make sure GF , explains, because bike shop and truck made the deal, you were given another bike. If there was no deal, bike shop would not replace your broken bike without payment from you first.

You no longer liable to pay for anything, as bike shop can no longer prove what damage "you" caused, they exchanged the bike for you, without payment.

Ahh nice point at the end there. Thanks pal, let you know how it goes tomorrow.

[lemoncake]

Surely this has to depend on the contract for the hire of the bike? If the contract says you are liable for any damage to the bike, then they have you if you have failed to insure it.

In the same way if you rent a car from some company (Avis or whoever) and refuse / fail to pay the insurance.

Another point here is the truck driver did offer to pay for the repair as long as his friend did the repairs. That in itself is an agreement. The fact he did not turn up suggests he broke the agreement and considering he agreed it was his fault, he should pay.

In all honesty, I'd try to be reasonable with the hirer but do so via the g/f. I'd let her handle the matter, they do seem able to sort these things out Thai on Thai to everyone's satisfaction.

I agree with both of your points made. I wasn't offered insurance therefore didn't get it. Also the truck driver did say he would pay it, however after the rental lady screwed him over by padding the bill he's now changed his mind. I don't really want to pay the bill then see him walk away scott free however not really sure im going to have much choice. Realisticly what will she/the police do if i don't pay it? Will the police really be very interested in this huge case<_<?

Make sure your GF comes with you and relays the story to police, make sure GF clearly states bike shop made the deal and then the deal fell through.

Make sure GF confirms AS A WITNESS all the details and take it from there.

I am certain police will not go after you , worst case scenario, they will advise bike shop to sue you, in which case you can then make the decision to either hire a lawyer or pay the difference.

I had bikes for rent and after accident, if i made the choice to negotiate the payment, but other party failed to pay, i could not go back to renter and claim the money(lesson was learned)

From there on, i never did any negotiations and left it up to renter to make the choice in case of accident.

Thanks, what do you mean by the highlighted text? "Could not" You mean legally or?...

In Thailand not much is done legally , was more i guess common sense.

As i posted minute ago, your wild card is that the shop replaced the bike without the payment.

You do not know what was fixed and shop can not prove anything now, unless shop will confirm truck driver, in which case they confirming they made the deal with someone else to pay for the damage.

I doubt shop can even go after the truck now, as they fixed the damage without anything in writing.

[lemoncake]

I think the problem is the bike owner knows the Thai guy either doesn't have 4k or he won't pay it. Therefore im the easier target right? I don't know whats going to happen tomorrow but i have a feeling she's going to forget all about the truck driver and come after me. I like what you said in your first paragraph but not sure how that would go down in the police station with the contract on the table...

Understand where you coming from, but do not strees, worse case scenario you end up paying 4000 baht.

Stop worrying as they can smell the fear.

Police will not do anything, as i said before, make sure your GF comes along and explains the situation, clearly pointing out that bike shop ALREADY made an agreement, skipping/leaving you out of it.

Now that the bike shop can not recover, they can not claim it.

Also make sure GF , explains, because bike shop and truck made the deal, you were given another bike. If there was no deal, bike shop would not replace your broken bike without payment from you first.

You no longer liable to pay for anything, as bike shop can no longer prove what damage "you" caused, they exchanged the bike for you, without payment.

Ahh nice point at the end there. Thanks pal, let you know how it goes tomorrow.

Good luck, just make sure not to show any fear even if police makes some kind of threat.

Just tell them you happy to get your lawyer to go further. and keep on repeating same thing over and over (Thai style)