Brick work photo-- opinions, please

[ginglee]

Should have started with info and pics of the foundations. As long as you're ok there, shoddy workmanship there on up can be fixed.

All ready been covered that the 'look' of the brickwork doesnt really matter, as long as thery've used enough mortar and the correct mix.

I take it you dont have any prior building experience? If so then its a good investment to get an engineer around at various stages to check everything.

[ginglee]

duplicate-

Edited November 29, 2013 by ginglee

[transam]

Looks like they have been a bit mean with the mortar and are relying on the rendering, but should be OK as the rendering mix will key into the gaps.

[FACTOR]

[quote name=

I take it you dont have any prior building experience? If so then its a good investment to get an engineer around at various stages to check everything.

"...no prior building experience..." Ha... You picked up on that. So I really appreciate all the good advice you guys can give me.

About getting an engineer out to check on it, the problem is I don't know any engineers in my area.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[David48]

Thanks, guys. I'm reassured. The house is only going to be maybe 30% brick anyway, the rest being wood.

Mate ... while wood is beautiful ... do you know of the EXTREME termite problem in Thailand.

They eat the paper backing of Gyprock (dry wall).

They chew through electrical wires (I kid you not).

Kitchen Benches are often made of block with a tile or stone surface.

Not trying to change your mind ... but just the reality of building here.

The wood we are using is about fifty years old, maybe a bit older, and therefore, apparently, already dry and will not warp or shrink. We got the wood by dismantling an older wooden house, and our builder eye-balled the wood for termite damage and discarded that portion proclaiming the rest of the wood would not be susceptible to termites (or less susceptible) if after fifty years they had not got to it already...

Country folk logic?

You know, too often we dis the Thai because they build in a different method then we do in the West ... often they cut corners. But often in the West we over-engineer things.

The gf's parents are currently doing a major house renovation due to both termite damage and sinking wet footings.

I tip my hat to them for the ingenuity they have to coming up with cheap but effective solutions to problems.

The Country folk logic ... yeh ... I can see that.

But, my warning on termites does remain.

It's hard to go to sleep at night when you can audibly hear the little buggers munching into the wood by your pillow ... true story.

Probably the one thing that we Westerns decry the most is the Thai approach to the electrics. I find little to compliment them there, so maybe a point of focus for you with the build.

Good luck, the brickwork looks fine.

Often said with us building ... we worry too much.

Often said of the Thai Builder and his workers ... they don't worry enough!

.

[thailand49]

It being built in Isaan should have no bearing on your project nor should what is being paid you aren't paying them directly yourself? I've had several projects built here in Pattaya. In regards to the bricks they are much stronger than the cements blocks which are much cheaper and not as strong even after the comestic cement. The cement blocks will crack eventually and you will clearly see it in a year or two.

If you are using wood post....TO HOLD UP YOUR ROOF my suggestion is you better stop the project NOW! HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF TERMITES! YOUR ROOF OR HOUSE WILL NOT LAST THE YEAR! UNLESS YOUR WOOD IS PRESSURE TREATED LIKE IN THE STATES AND i DON'T CARE WHAT THEY TREAT THE WOOD WITH IT WILL NOT LAST! MY BROTHER HOUSE CAN ATTEST TO IT.

Even it they use cement to go over the wooden post termites will still be able to find it's way into the cement and slowly have a feast! you are wasting you money Isaan or not.

[thailand49]

Thanks, guys. I'm reassured. The house is only going to be maybe 30% brick anyway, the rest being wood.

Mate ... while wood is beautiful ... do you know of the EXTREME termite problem in Thailand.

They eat the paper backing of Gyprock (dry wall).

They chew through electrical wires (I kid you not).

Kitchen Benches are often made of block with a tile or stone surface.

Not trying to change your mind ... but just the reality of building here.

The wood we are using is about fifty years old, maybe a bit older, and therefore, apparently, already dry and will not warp or shrink. We got the wood by dismantling an older wooden house, and our builder eye-balled the wood for termite damage and discarded that portion proclaiming the rest of the wood would not be susceptible to termites (or less susceptible) if after fifty years they had not got to it already...

Country folk logic?

You need to stop listening to your wife! She just wants the house this is Thailand logic you are trying to save money or think the price is right so lets do it! This is not a piece of furniture a rustic piece of wood to be made out of a table. It is going to hold up your roof. This is the same thinking my ex family had in Sukhothai. A few years back guess who paid for the collapse roof instead I told them I'm not paying a cent to make a patch work. I tore the thing down and starting over! and before they did you should have seen the termites at work ever post was eaten to the core the only reason it held up was because the cement outside of the post. The contractor couldn't care less just wants the project why because he isn't going to be around and if he is guess what " he isn't going to answer the phone " you think you got recourse you are fooling yourself. You are here on ThaiVisa asking this question because experience or not you got doubts and your are right!

Edited November 29, 2013 by PoorSucker
Fixed quote

[Chao Lao Beach]

When they "paint" the anti termite poison that is commonly sold here, looks clear or like piss, supervise them.

It is meant to work ok on small wood, trims and stuff, but by memory it is extremely cancerous and apparently last along time in the soil, (hence last a long time in wood to). It is particularly deadly instantly to fish and amphibious creatures, a cap full into a pond will be a complete fish kill over night.

It is common for Thais to not were gloves, and man handle the wet wood and dribble the stuff everywhere to get you and your kids later on !!!!

It is banned in most countries many years ago, but TIT. I am not saying do not use it, just be aware.

You also want to actively find asbestos free materials, as the workers love to cut it with angle grinders, refining it into dust and cover your land with it, well what left after they breath in and eat as much of it as they can with no mask or anything !!!!

Cuban has some good points above, take note.

Under the eves, do not use 'gypsum' board. Use the stuff that is made from like, trella in panels and get the vented ones. If I go up on a ladder on the leewards side of the house, I can feel the heat pouring out of the vents (being sucked out from the low pressure).

Edited November 29, 2013 by Chao Lao Beach

[Mudcrab]

Thanks, guys. I'm reassured. The house is only going to be maybe 30% brick anyway, the rest being wood.

Mate ... while wood is beautiful ... do you know of the EXTREME termite problem in Thailand.

They eat the paper backing of Gyprock (dry wall).

They chew through electrical wires (I kid you not).

Kitchen Benches are often made of block with a tile or stone surface.

Not trying to change your mind ... but just the reality of building here.

and eat through concrete depending on the type of termite.

[Lokie]

Looks good to me for Thailand, yes they have thrown the last two courses in on the bottom section, the best guy done the top section which looks quite good, bricks are well bonded and tied as said will be rendered finish, so dont worry about looks at this stage as long as wall sections are tied at critical points as mentioned to prevent movement, Steel work looks fine - Jobs a Good Un'

[monkey4u]

Its ok as it will be filled the worry is inside walls,

Remember most of these guys dont know what a string line or a level is

As most are not straight it is a bitch to get fitted kitckens

May I ask is that one of the builders who seems to be asleep on the roof frame?

[papa al]

Minimum wage in Thailand is 300baht (~$10) per day so you are cheating the help.

I hope your house falls down.

[mgjackson69]

I called it 'shit work', because in my opinion it is. Not this instance, but this methodology in general.

Opinions vary.

That said, it is a standard construction method here, and there are plenty of structures built in this manner that have been around a long time.

The house we live in was constructed in this manner (years ago, before I was an LOS newbie), as is the rental property ( 7 hongs + a shophouse ) we are just finishing in Nong Hin.

I have seen similar construction methods in the Middle East as well.

Sent from my Xoom using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mad mary]

I'd suggest you ignore all the comments about "crap" work and the like as the construction looks perfectly normal for here in Thailand. It's not the way I'd build a wall back in the states but what you see there is standard and adequate construction for here. As for the comment about "brick ties", they're used when you're tying in a brick wall to an inner all (and, given the walls you're seeing in your photo aren't at all being tied into any inner structure, they wouldn't be applicable). What we don't see in the photo is whether the masons used any mesh of any kind within the brick wall (the mesh, sometimes simple wire or small "re-rod") can be placed every 6-10 courses to add additional strength to the wall; however, given the "brick" walls shown in your photo are not all that wide, probably not necessary.

Most of the outer and inner walls of commercial structures in most of Thailand are made the same way. Once the cement plasterers get finished and the painting is done, what you'll see is what you see everywhere here.

Brick mesh or re rod is recommended too ,but only over 3.6m+ spans . To rubbish the basic principal of vertical-post-to-brick-ties is ,well... rubbish!!

I wouldn't stand underneath the 1st floor bathroom (if not tied) when someone is trying to hang a picture with a 6 inch nail & a lump hammer .

[FACTOR]

Its ok as it will be filled the worry is inside walls,

Remember most of these guys dont know what a string line or a level is

As most are not straight it is a bitch to get fitted kitckens

May I ask is that one of the builders who seems to be asleep on the roof frame?

Yeah, I think he's having a rest.

[FACTOR]

From the detail that your one image offers the general brickwork as shown looks OK, typical Issan builders now the rice is in the bag.

More thoughts could be provided to accompany more and more detailed (clearer) images.

See a recent thread about Garden Walls for a long section I wrote about the benefits of soaking bricks before laying, weak bonding and structural cracks result when this is not done during construction.

If there is a room/s you will be using aircon most of the time you would be wise to specify Q-Con Blocks and K-Block, particularly with walls facing the sun. They are designed as thermally insulating although because they get this property from a reaction with Aluminium during production and the cost of Aluminium has increased massively over the past ten years, the blocks are now much heavier (less Aluminium generated air pockets/bubbles) and so offer less insulation. Using a double wall with Rockwool in between is a viable alternative. Thais will not see a benefit in spending an extra few thousand Baht for a second wall but think nothing about you spending an extra 500 Baht a month for aircon costs.

Thais aren't into building in a damp proofing membrane into walls and verticals, so you might get some some salting if there is damp in the soil. In many cases the soil in Issan is clay and dries out if the roof overhang is sufficient to keep the footprint of the house dry. Not a serious issue if it occurs, use a dry brush to remove it a few times then seal with a good exterior paint over the render. (I doubt plaster would be a wise choice anywhere in Issan.) On this point I suggest living with plain concrete rendering for a few months to ensure it completely cures. Concrete/molar does not "dry out" but a chemical process takes place that sets it like a glue.

Is the roof to be wood and sheeting or steel and tile?

If wood you must must must know that it is pressure treated for insect infestation and that all cut ends are painted over with the same chemical treatment.

If steel you need to have thermal isolation between the steel and the supporting pillars otherwise the tiles will collect heat during the day and then spend the night acting as a storage heater keeping the walls warm through conduction. Powered ventilation of the roof space helps but is not a cure.

Whatever the roof covering ensure that the joins, ridges and valleys in particular are water tight. If you can get agreement that they fix any leaks "discovered" next rainy season because of setting movement or "green" wood drying out you again you are wise.

The comment about ties to link the walls to the pillars is an important one, I've seen many Issan houses with cracks running along pillars big enough for lizards and geckos to come and go freely - seems silly to allow this to happen when doing it properly costs a few Baht a tie, but this needed to be done when the pillar was cast, few Issan builders will drill pillars - they don't have good enough electric drills or drill bits. The answer from Somchai will be "It OK - not fall down, Sure!"

Good luck with your project - is Thai Electrickry the next issue?

Will the brickie be doing this ?

Re the electrickry (I like that one), the construction boss will do that himself. Fingers crossed.

[loong]

Photo is a bit dark, but that looks to be the best brickwork that I have ever seen in Thailand

[myluckythai]

pretty good. the bricks are actually bigger than the cement in between. and no big holes in the cement either. it's all not too bad for thai standard bricklaying

[HughJass]

The brickwork is fine at least it is half bond which will give it sufficient strength .As others have said though ,has it been tied to the concrete posts ? In the UK we tie in every 6 courses(450mm) vertically on a build like yours (not suggesting that is the practice in Thailand) .I would hope that your structural brickwork has been tied in somewhere...at least ,er ...once?

OP, just in-case you don't know what a 'brick tie' is, one example ...

Difficult to find an example of one for an exact example of what you would normally use.

Sometimes they (Thai construction method) just pour a post and leave some reinforcing steel sticking out to 'tie' the wall to the post.

It's a good engineering principle.

.

I was involved in a recent job using breeze blocks to make a room under a wooden house on stilts....looked everywhere for some sort of wall tie to no avail...we decided to use strong mesh cut into strips and bent into an L shape...the l is nailed to the wooden post and the - is sandwiched between the blocks and cement...cost was about 130 baht per large sheet that made around 50 ties...worked very well

[David48]

Mate, your post is timely as we are soon to do exactly the same.

Breeze block wall built between wooden posts, enclosing a down stairs area.

house-repairs-the-thai-way

[ginglee]

[quote name=

I take it you dont have any prior building experience? If so then its a good investment to get an engineer around at various stages to check everything.

"...no prior building experience..." Ha... You picked up on that. So I really appreciate all the good advice you guys can give me.

About getting an engineer out to check on it, the problem is I don't know any engineers in my area.

Thanks again for all the advice.

apologies- I have a tendancy to skim read !

Dont know any engineers? Then find one, there has to be someone near you. Or get Cuban up to check it out- he seems to know his stuff...I'm sure he wont change much ...ha