In A Zoo

[wcr]

Although I don't venture into Boyztown to often, I do go there to have the odd drink and maybe take in a show, always with the bf of course

What I have noticed since before Christmas is the groups of straights visiting this area. (For those of you not familiar with Boyztown, its a soi in Pattaya full of gay bars and clubs). Now, I am happy enough for them to come along, sit and have a drink if they want, and take in a show if thats what takes thier fancy, but what I really get angry at is the sight seeing intention of this visit.

They walk through the soi, as part of the tour of Pattaya's seedy side (not my view) and look at all the gay farang with Thai guys. They are looking in disbelief usually, smiling and laughing with thier hubbys/wives/friends, pointing and having a bloody good time at our expense. It makes me feel like some sort of exhibit or an animal in the zoo. Fine, come and join us, but don't judge or mock us in OUR place. You have enough places of your own where we can't display ourselves as you can, in our place.

Views please, paranoid or not?

[ChrisP]

Not paranoid... wcr

I've not been to Pattaya yet, but I've seen it happen in other countries.

Very annoying.

In Los Angeles, the latest thing is str8 couples going to a gay bar/dance club.

I'm somewhat conflicted.... on the one hand it's nice that they feel comfortable enough to come in and have a good time there... but on the other hand.. if I wanted to mingle with str8 couples, I'd go to a str8 club. I prefer the company of men - only - and would like to keep the "Gay Club" that way.

Sounds prejudiced..??

Like I said.. I'm conflicted.

ChrisP

[davethailand]

I KNOW ALOT OF GIRLS ESPECIALLY , WHO PREFER GAY CLUBS, PROBABLY BECAUSE THERES NO DRUNKEN IDIOT TRYING TO PULL THEM.

I THINK IF STRAIGHT PEOPLE WANT TO GO TO GAY PLACES, UP TO THEM BUT I RESPECT YOUR VIEWS IN THAT THEY SHOULD ENJOY THEM SELVES AND NOT ALIENATE THE GAY PEOPLE,

[sbk]

I agree, if it is done solely to "sightsee" as seems to be the case here it is highly offensive. I went through something like this when I lived in a small town in central taiwan, as one of only 3 foreigners in the town (the other two being mormon missionaries, I won't even go there!) I was treated like some kind of object. Stared at, pointed at, poked and prodded. I felt like an animal in the zoo. Needless to say, I don't go to zoos anymore!

It is offensive for people to treat other people simply as objects for their own amusement. Paranoid? maybe, maybe not... Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you

[mrmnp]

wcr: rude people are rude people are rude people. I have seen many "tourists" walk down boyztown streets with happy smiles, as it is largely a happy place, with not a disparaging comment. True, "courntry folk" may look with incrudulity, but it is, after all, part of their education. Travel is supposed to do that.

I don't know how many times, since I have been in Thailand, that I almost wretched, with accompanying facial expression, at what Thai's are eating, even my own. Boy have I been rude, until I got used to it. I still walk rapidly by any place with raw meat exposed to all with flies buzzing around. Not many people, who are new to Thailand can view a Thai eating deep fried cockroaches without making a face and joking out of nervousness.

ChrisP. If enough of the patrons of establishments you frequent would complain to management, perhaps managers of those facilities would make them "gay exclusive" or even better, a struggling establishment advertise they are for "gay" exclusively, or perhaps that is not legal?

[JemJem]

If enough of the patrons of establishments you frequent would complain to management, perhaps managers of those facilities would make them "gay exclusive" or even better, a struggling establishment advertise they are for "gay" exclusively, or perhaps that is not legal?

I sympathise with wcr and others who think like him...going to a bar and feeling like you are in a zoo is not a nice feeling at all !!!

Dear ChrisP and mrmnp...I feel that making the place 'gay exclusive' is not a good idea. I personally feel it would be discriminatory...I don't like labels but for the argument's sake, let me point that I am bisexual but on very much the gay side. I wouldn't like to see non-gays excluded from a gay bar. Besides, how would the manager or the guy at the door know if the person is gay or not...will there be some kind of test upon entrance ?

As for the legality issue, I have always wondered about that too but don't know the answer but I think that unfortunately the'exclusivity' is not against the law in Thailand....I am saying this because the existence of so called 'Japanese-only establishments' is known to almost everyone, including the police and the other authorities. I myself have been refused entry to a couple of them....didn't try a third time.....I have also sadly seen a (though in only a couple of places) 'No Arabs please' sign. And I have heard that a few places in town refuse entry to black people and heard that some places in Patpong refuse entry to Thais. All very sickening I think

Since the manager cannot determine if one person is gay or not, the establishment might opt to put 'Gays only' sign at the entrance.....I guess this would deter a lot of non-gay people. But as I wrote, I myself wouldn't go to a place with such a discriminatory attittude. I feel it is not right.

Unfortunately, there ARE people like the ones wcr mentioned in his first post in this thread but in Bangkok, I have luckily seen very few of those. I believe that most non-gays who go to gay places go there because they just want to relax and have a few drinks in a nice, cosy atmosphere or maybe the place just happens to be on route to their next destination place or maybe they are with a gay friend/s (I mean, there could be many other good reasons). There are also females who want to relax and act comfortably without trying to be flirted upon by a guy.

I would say a definite 'No' to 'Gays only' policy for all these reasons above.

I mean, all this is a matter of principle/personal code of ethics for me. Opinions/attitudes are bound to vary though...I am aware of that.

Regards,

Jem