Family Matters - Who ranks highest ... Legally?

[David48]

Family Matters - Who ranks highest ... Legally?

Say, for example, I've married my Thai Girl Friend ... she's now my wife.

Poor bugger passes away ...

And she passes before she wrote a Will.

We have kids together (all legal like).

Her Parents are alive.

She has siblings.

We are legally married ... not a Village do.

When it comes to divesting her assets ... who ranks highest.

Actually, amongst the relatives, me included, what is the accepted (legally) ranking?

.

[CharlieH]

To the best if my knowledge......

You

Your children

Her Parents

Her Siblings in age order

There are certain conditions and time limits on you as the "ferang" if in Thailand.

[asiaexpat]

Unless there have been recent changes (unlikely):

There are six classifications of intestate heirs under Thai law. They are, listed in order of Thai inheritance priority: offspring (children, grandchildren, etc.), father and mother; full blooded siblings, half blooded sibling, grandparents; and siblings of parents.

A will prevents intestate.

[khunPer]

When there is a surviving spouse, the Civil and Commercial Code provides for the following diversion af assets:

If your are survived by your spouse and children, the spouse recieves fifty percent and the children recieve fifty percent of the assets divided equally between the children and grandchildren (if there are no surviving children).

[sic] [Thai Law for Foreigners, When There Is No Will Or No Valid Will, page 80]

[Forethat]

Expect her assets to be split up between the Thai relatives before you can say som tam pla ra. And DONT expect Thai law to be enforced in these matters.

[Bpuumike]

Take the simple and cheap route of her making a will!

[hellodolly]

I could care less. the only thing of value she owns are her motor bike and her I pad.

I would have no problem with giving them up.

In fact I might buy another I pad so both the granddaughters could have one.

[Beetlejuice]

To be on the safe side, this is what I recommend:

If your wife`s name is on the land and properties papers you may have bought, put the property into the names of your children, if they have Thai citizenship.

Have your bank accounts in joint names with your wife.

Your vehicles register in your name, even any vehicles your wife owns.

Jewellery, small valuables and small family heirlooms, rent a strong box at your bank in joint names with your wife and store them in there.

This way if in the event something did happen to your wife, there can be no questions who gets what and no disputes. But of course this means you have to trust your wife.

As the wise man says; cover your a-se for any eventuality.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[David48]

Unless there have been recent changes (unlikely):

There are six classifications of intestate heirs under Thai law. They are, listed in order of Thai inheritance priority: offspring (children, grandchildren, etc.), father and mother; full blooded siblings, half blooded sibling, grandparents; and siblings of parents.

A will prevents intestate.

Where would I, as her husband, rate in that conga queue?

Thanks for the replies guys ...

[Dublin]

I'm sure this has be beaten to death on other strings

But if I may, can I twist this scenario a little, let’s say you were not married but living together for 7 years and have no permanent resident Visa for Thailand as you FIFO with work . You have two children, a house a car a bike all the usual trimmings…

Would a will be still be covered under tail LAW if the Ferang was named as beneficiary or could the parents contest it. And Finally the best place to make a will would be !!!!

[ThaidDown]

As said, both husband and wife making wills is the sensible way to go.

Wills can be made using a lawyer or can be made at the local Amphur where your requirements are noted, documents signed and kept there. Copies provided to the spouses.

Fee for the latter is minimal.

A will in Thailand is also valid if fully hand written and signed even if not witnessed.

Official Civil Code Inheritance Laws here http://www.thailandlawonline.com/thai-family-and-marriage-law/civil-law-on-succession-inheritance-heirs-and-wills

[jackr]

To be on the safe side, this is what I recommend:

This is what I recommend: don't come to Thailand and/or don't get involved with a doris.

[simple1]

Unless there have been recent changes (unlikely):

There are six classifications of intestate heirs under Thai law. They are, listed in order of Thai inheritance priority: offspring (children, grandchildren, etc.), father and mother; full blooded siblings, half blooded sibling, grandparents; and siblings of parents.

A will prevents intestate.

Where would I, as her husband, rate in that conga queue?

Thanks for the replies guys ...

Put in-place a Will in Thailand for wife's assets. If you are the sole beneficiary for land and house, you would have to sell within one year of wife's death or cede to your children

Edited December 1, 2013 by simple1

[FiftyTwo]

Where would I, as her husband, rate in that conga queue?

Thanks for the replies guys ...

With no will and in your case

You (husband) gets 50%

Her children get the other 50% divided equally between them.

PS

I don't know of any case where a foreign husband was actually forced to sell inherited land.

Edited December 1, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[rgs2001uk]

Where would I, as her husband, rate in that conga queue?

Thanks for the replies guys ...

With no will and in your case

You (husband) gets 50%

Her children get the other 50% divided equally between them.

PS

I don't know of any case where a foreign husband was actually forced to sell inherited land.

How would anyone know your wife had died?

The only way I can think of is if you go to the land office to change the chanote details.

[aveabeeror2]

I asked my thai wife where i stand in this matter, she say I nr 35, we have no kids. she said parents first then family,inlaws rellies. I asked her if we have a child, where would i stand then, she say nr 36.

[billd766]

To be on the safe side, this is what I recommend:

If your wife`s name is on the land and properties papers you may have bought, put the property into the names of your children, if they have Thai citizenship.

Have your bank accounts in joint names with your wife.

Your vehicles register in your name, even any vehicles your wife owns.

Jewellery, small valuables and small family heirlooms, rent a strong box at your bank in joint names with your wife and store them in there.

This way if in the event something did happen to your wife, there can be no questions who gets what and no disputes. But of course this means you have to trust your wife.

As the wise man says; cover your a-se for any eventuality.

I do trust my wife.

We have know each other for 20 years, married for 14 of them and have a nine year old son.

Why wouldn't I trust her?

[rgs2001uk]

The following link me be of help to many,

http://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/thailand-inheritance-laws.html

Start reading at chapter 2, section 1629.

[rayongchelsea]

Expect her assets to be split up between the Thai relatives before you can say som tam pla ra. And DONT expect Thai law to be enforced in these matters.

Nonsense..if there are any assets of value and you have a decent lawyer..no problem..Infact the courts were very sympathetic in my case.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rayongchelsea]

 

Unless there have been recent changes (unlikely):

There are six classifications of intestate heirs under Thai law. They are, listed in order of Thai inheritance priority: offspring (children, grandchildren, etc.), father and mother; full blooded siblings, half blooded sibling, grandparents; and siblings of parents.

A will prevents intestate.

 

Where would I, as her husband, rate in that conga queue?

 

 

 

Thanks for the replies guys ... 

 

 

 

Put in-place a Will in Thailand for wife's assets. If you are the sole beneficiary for land and house, you would have to sell within one year of wife's death or cede to your children

In discussion with my lawyer he suggested it was within one year of probate being granted and the change on the name on the chanote. Probate can take time..

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[FiftyTwo]

I do trust my wife.

We have know each other for 20 years, married for 14 of them and have a nine year old son.

Why wouldn't I trust her?

Transam and I both had wives back in the UK, I had mine for more than 25 years, with four children.

Didn't stop them trying to take us for all they could.

Guys get old, get too trusting, get taken, happens all the time.

I shouldn't have trusted my wife, but I did and I paid dearly for that mistake.

Like the finance adverts say, past performance is no indication of future profits.

[Tchooptip]

To be on the safe side, this is what I recommend:

If your wife`s name is on the land and properties papers you may have bought, put the property into the names of your children, if they have Thai citizenship.

Have your bank accounts in joint names with your wife.

Your vehicles register in your name, even any vehicles your wife owns.

Jewellery, small valuables and small family heirlooms, rent a strong box at your bank in joint names with your wife and store them in there.

This way if in the event something did happen to your wife, there can be no questions who gets what and no disputes. But of course this means you have to trust your wife.

As the wise man says; cover your a-se for any eventuality.

I do trust my wife.

We have know each other for 20 years, married for 14 of them and have a nine year old son.

Why wouldn't I trust her?

Because some TV members would advice you to

[khunPer]

Unless there have been recent changes (unlikely):

There are six classifications of intestate heirs under Thai law. They are, listed in order of Thai inheritance priority: offspring (children, grandchildren, etc.), father and mother; full blooded siblings, half blooded sibling, grandparents; and siblings of parents.

A will prevents intestate.

Where would I, as her husband, rate in that conga queue?

Thanks for the replies guys ...

…There are two kinds of heirs: by blood and by marriage. ‘Blood heirs’ are’:

1 Children – including adopted children and children who are born under unregistered marriage that are confirmed by father – and grandchildren.

2 Parents

3 Brothers and sisters of same parents (whole blood)

4 Half-brothers and –sisters (sharing one parent)

5 Grandparents

6 Uncles and aunts

The six classes of heirs listed above will not all inherit your assets. This listing shows the sequence of who has right of inheritance (in the case that those of higher recognition do not exist). However, heirs in classes 1 and 2 are entitled to inherit assets at the same time.

An heir who is a legally married spouse – the marriage needs to be registered – is entitled to inheritance as are blood heirs in classes 1 and 2. Legally married spouses who are separated still have rights to the assets.

[sic] [Thai Law for Foreigners, When There Is No Will Or No Valid Will, page 79-80]

Following please see my post #4.

Concerning the comment about property (land), you as a foreigner will need to sell or transfer land within 12 month. Minor children can own land under guardians (you will father and guardian when married).

Best for both parts is to write a will – in Thailand for Thai assets, make another will in your home country, in any assets there. It can be very easy to write a will a sign it in the presence of two witnesses at the amphur (Civil Documented Will); the will can either be recorded or it can be left on file at the amphur.

[simple1]

Unless there have been recent changes (unlikely):

There are six classifications of intestate heirs under Thai law. They are, listed in order of Thai inheritance priority: offspring (children, grandchildren, etc.), father and mother; full blooded siblings, half blooded sibling, grandparents; and siblings of parents.

A will prevents intestate.

Where would I, as her husband, rate in that conga queue?

Thanks for the replies guys ...

Put in-place a Will in Thailand for wife's assets. If you are the sole beneficiary for land and house, you would have to sell within one year of wife's death or cede to your children

In discussion with my lawyer he suggested it was within one year of probate being granted and the change on the name on the chanote. Probate can take time..

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why would probate need to be granted if the Will is uncontested and complies with Thai law?

[SeabagsFull]

Excellent question to ask, David48.

Puyai Ban (i.e., George) posted a good article on Wills back in February that discusses this issue:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/618983-the-importance-of-preparing-a-will-in-thailand/

Also, ThaidDown provided a link in post #11 to a document that clearly answers your question:

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/thai-family-and-marriage-law/civil-law-on-succession-inheritance-heirs-and-wills

So, no Will? In summary, inheritance rules are applied in the following hierarchical order:

1. Spouse & each child get equal shares (e.g., having 3 children means each gets 25%)

2. Spouse 50%, parents 50% (i.e., 25% each parent if both are alive)

3. Spouse 50%, full-blooded siblings 50%

4. Spouse 66.67%,half-blooded siblings 33.33%

5. Spouse 66.67%, grandparents 33.33%

6. Spouse 66.67%, aunts & uncles 33.33%

7. Spouse 100% (i.e., none of the other Thai relatives listed above are alive)

Monkey wrench: If the children are under 18 years-old, then the next person (eldest if more than one) in the hierarchical order -- providing they agree to raising them -- administers the money for the children until they become of age. Meaning? They could spend all the money & probably get away with it.

Back in mid 2004, I paid a Thai lawyer 1,000 baht for an hour's time to get the same information.

[hanuman2543]

Expect her assets to be split up between the Thai relatives before you can say som tam pla ra. And DONT expect Thai law to be enforced in these matters.

My experience is that the law is enforced indeed. Correct is that the relatives think that they are entitled to inherit without any regard for the law. The court will follow strictly the regulations in the CCC.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ XA using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[FiftyTwo]

Excellent question to ask, David48.

Puyai Ban (i.e., George) posted a good article on Wills back in February that discusses this issue:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/618983-the-importance-of-preparing-a-will-in-thailand/

Also, ThaidDown provided a link in post #11 to a document that clearly answers your question:

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/thai-family-and-marriage-law/civil-law-on-succession-inheritance-heirs-and-wills

So, no Will? In summary, inheritance rules are applied in the following hierarchical order:

1. Spouse & each child get equal shares (e.g., having 3 children means each gets 25%)

2. Spouse 50%, parents 50% (i.e., 25% each parent if both are alive)

3. Spouse 50%, full-blooded siblings 50%

4. Spouse 66.67%,half-blooded siblings 33.33%

5. Spouse 66.67%, grandparents 33.33%

6. Spouse 66.67%, aunts & uncles 33.33%

7. Spouse 100% (i.e., none of the other Thai relatives listed above are alive)

Monkey wrench: If the children are under 18 years-old, then the next person (eldest if more than one) in the hierarchical order -- providing they agree to raising them -- administers the money for the children until they become of age. Meaning? They could spend all the money & probably get away with it.

Back in mid 2004, I paid a Thai lawyer 1,000 baht for an hour's time to get the same information.

You are wrong, in each case spouse gets 50%.

[rayongchelsea]

 

 

 

Unless there have been recent changes (unlikely):

There are six classifications of intestate heirs under Thai law. They are, listed in order of Thai inheritance priority: offspring (children, grandchildren, etc.), father and mother; full blooded siblings, half blooded sibling, grandparents; and siblings of parents.

A will prevents intestate.

 

Where would I, as her husband, rate in that conga queue?

 

 

 

Thanks for the replies guys ... 

 

 

 

 

Put in-place a Will in Thailand for wife's assets. If you are the sole beneficiary for land and house, you would have to sell within one year of wife's death or cede to your children

 

In discussion with my lawyer he suggested it was within one year of probate being granted and the change on the name on the chanote. Probate can take time..

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

 

Why would probate need to be granted if the Will is uncontested and complies with Thai law?

 

Agree. I meant if there is no will, also means that the 1 year rule is flexible in that you can stretch it out and in times of stress and confusion it all helps.

In my case I was a beneficiary as indicated above.

In no way shape or form did the land office want to put me on the chanote as an owner even for a year, although they allowed my name as the administrator. All was gifted to my daughter.

Btw, there can be a lot of crap on thaivisa..I contribute a little..but this is an invaluable thread.

I didn't have such resources and had to learn on my feet during a time when you are at your most vulnerable.

I think sometimes although there are laws in place farangs feel that they are not always complied with or have bought into the idea that everything favors the Thai..I was treated with great sympathy by the probate court.

I have had a great lawyer for 20 years a must in my opinion to know someone before you need them.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SeabagsFull]

You are wrong, in each case spouse gets 50%.

FiftyTwo, I admit that my eyesight is not that good. So I used a magnifier to re-read Thailandlawonline's translation, linked by StaidDown in Post #11, reprinted here for your benefit:

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/thai-family-and-marriage-law/civil-law-on-succession-inheritance-heirs-and-wills

Title 2 - Chapter II - Sections 1629 & 1630 lists the hierarchical order of heirs.

Title 2 - Chapter III - Part 2 - Section 1635 deals with spouses. It clearly describes division of assets according to my Post #25.

May I ask, do you know something I don't? For example, has the Civil Law on Succession been translated into English incorrectly by the Thailandlawonline authors?

Even if the law firm is wrong or otherwise incompetent, an Udon Thani lawyer my wife & I paid in 2004 provided the same basic information.

If you don't mind, what makes you think the spouse gets a flat 50% in every case?

Edited December 3, 2013 by SeabagsFull

[David48]

Thanks for the comments and yes, I also believe it's an important subject.

Sure, best to have a will in place ... but also good to know what the pecking order is if your partner passes intestate (dies without a Will).

.