1 dead, four people shot at Ramkhamhaeng University after clashes

[harrry]

The only surprise is (if it were a surprise) is that it has taken so long for the blood to start flowing and the deaths to start.

And all the while 'the square faced man' is on the beach in Dubai saying "it's not me" when in fact he is, has been and will remain the number one disease afflicting the realm.

There is a very simple solution and I am uncertain why it has never been acted upon

Pardon me, but this sounds like your promoting the assassination of former Prime Minister Thaksin. You sir, and I use the word "sir" with total disgust to you, should be arrested for solicitation of murder.

Yes he should and could be extradited and serve his prison sentance like other crimimals.

[Valentine]

That's mighty decent from the minority opposition to consider allowing the majority to finish the elected term. If only they did exactly what the opposition wanted.

They can't seem to get it into their heads that Thaksin remains a highly respected person within the majority party. The likes of The Nation run countless stories how he's the bogeyman and the root of all evil, tirelessly prefixing him with the title 'fugituve' ad vomitum. That doesnt mean that the majority of the country sees it that way. And neither does the international press. They see Thaksin's conviction (in absentia) for something so incredibly minor that it's clear to see it was a politically motivated show trial, shortly after a military coup. What Thaksin was convicted for is the same sort of business dealing that Suthep did all day long during his entire career.

He abused his power & was convicted but if you wish to talk about "incredibly minor" then it is compared to all the other charges he is facing which could see him spending the rest of his life in jail so there is very strong motive for amnesty.

It seems like inaction by police, despite pleas from the rector, could have been a cause of the deaths at the university.

Please don't blame the police. The police did not shoot these students. The red shirts did.

The first student shot reported that it was a uniformed policeman with the red shirts - but that has gone unconfirmed (of course). The police refused to turn up when both the rector at Ram U and students called (some students even going in person to the station) for help before the killing last night - while their boss, the Interior Minister, was on the Red stage at the Stadium along with, ironically, the Education Minister!

By their refusal to do their job they become culpable in the killings just like in 2010 when they stood aside & allowed protesters to bring in all sorts of armaments including gasoline.

[thaiguzzi]

They are fighting for the end of government corruption and the Thaksin influence in Thai politics. Corruption and influence that put this rabble of a government in power in the first place. They would be welcomed to finish their term had they not been so damned aligned and loyal to Thaksin.

That's mighty decent from the minority opposition to consider allowing the majority to finish the elected term. If only they did exactly what the opposition wanted.

They can't seem to get it into their heads that Thaksin remains a highly respected person within the majority party. The likes of The Nation run countless stories how he's the bogeyman and the root of all evil, tirelessly prefixing him with the title 'fugituve' ad vomitum. That doesnt mean that the majority of the country sees it that way. And neither does the international press. They see Thaksin's conviction (in absentia) for something so incredibly minor that it's clear to see it was a politically motivated show trial, shortly after a military coup. What Thaksin was convicted for is the same sort of business dealing that Suthep did all day long during his entire career.

+1.

Most people don't realise the majority of Reds just want what each of us have taken for granted most of our lives - a fair and equal crack of the whip, equality and justice for all. The Yellows want Thailand how it used to be, and still is in a lot of circles; a caste type system, the rich stay rich and/or get richer, the poor know their place, stay in their place, low or no education, so they can continue as fodder for the factories, construction sites, and maids and servants for the elite. There is no way the Dems/Yellows would have ever put in the infrastructure there is now in the villages and towns in the North and NE. That is why this is turning into a class struggle - working class = Reds, elite = Yellows. Seems most people on this forum support snobbery and elitism, not seeing past the government is corrupt <deleted>. They are ALL corrupt, Dems no better than the rest, proven down the decades.

[AlphMichaels]

Everyone..., listen up. I don't care if BOTH sides are steeped in corruption, which would seem to be the case, any way you look at it. The prevailing sentiment says they're both equally guilty of abuse of power and corruption. I can't speak to the level of it on either side and those who think they can are throwing out pure conjecture or event based "controversial" incidents. Sure that statement will bring the wrath of TV posters to pounce.

The only way to establish and maintain a democracy..., even when the elected party and its leaders are deemed to be corrupt..., must play out by accepting those who have been elected by the people. Whether legitimately or by virtue of them "giving back" to those who aided in their elections..., the vote of the people must stand until 'next elections' come about.

The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin but everyone wants to say so. It was also about Abhisit who, may I remind readers, has been indicted for murder. In fact the bill was aimed to pardon combatants going all the way back to 2004. There are MANY who the amnesty bill would have exonerated and on both sides of this divide., IMHO, for all the right reasons. Let the past remain in the past and work on the present, then the future.

Aung San Suu Kyi who just happens to have a good handle on the matters of the SE Asian populace in matters like these said something a few years ago that really stuck with me. Forgive me if I misquote...., "It's not power that corrupts but fear. Fear of losing power corrupts the people who have it and fear of power corrupts those who are subject to it".

I know how to solve this once and for all. Thailand is comprised of some 23 million people...., over 2/3 live in the rural countryside. Send all those who protest the current "majority elected" government to the north for rice harvest. Let them toil in the fields for 30 days, living a subsistence lifestyle and caring only about their families, a place to sleep and food in their stomachs. Let them wear the mud of the fields on their feet and hands. Let them bathe from a bucket or cistern. Let them sleep on the floor and feel the frigid temperatures of December & January. Let them forage for food from the fields they til and harvest.

Short of that highly unlikely scenario, what has begun again (I fear) will be far worse than what we saw in 2010. And it saddens me for the masses who deserve a better way of life. Suthep's epitaph may not read well in the years to come and he has placed the people of Thailand in grave danger. I question his love for all the people of Thailand.

And so it begins..., again. I sense with far reaching consequence that can only damage a country and its people who I love. This could be a new chapter that will be a very bad one for Thailand.

How incredibly naïve you are, I agree the amnesty bill was not all about Thaksin it also covered 2500 corruption charges from 2004 till 2013 and countless more incidences of corruption that haven't been investigated like the rice scam and the other PTP populist policies.

PS: On another note, only in Thailand would street protestors have to go looking for the police...........

"RT@RichardBarrow: For those that keep asking why anti-government protesters are "storming" Dusit Zoo in #Bangkok, it is because police are stationed there"

"BANGKOK: -- Police closed Rama I Road in bound from Rajprasong area as anti-government protests are scheduled to rally at Royal Thai Police headquarters this morning."

My propensity for naivety...., must be incredibly so.., since you state it. A grievous error on my part...., to engage a blitherer.

[Moruya]

Perhaps I am colour blind, but ... I have been reviewing a lot of press photographs of the past few days purporting to show anti-government protesters.

Here on these forums, we are told by the red shirt apologists that the anti-government protestors are evil "yellow shirts".

What I see is a lot of Thai flags, and very few yellow shirts. Methinks there is a concerted effort by some red apologists to misrepresent the facts on the ground.

The only misrepresentation around here is denying a political party that was legitimately voted in by the majority the right to govern until the end of its term

They are being denied the right to cheat at will.

Big difference

[sms747]

"Udon Thani red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana, who is bringing 1,500 people on board 20 buses to Bangkok, claimed that former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra on Friday phoned and asked him to mobilise supporters."

Does the International media need much more proof of who really manages things here in Thailand......

There's been some serious money spent getting the northern thugs to BKK.....Thaksins getting serious now.....and he doesn't care the outcome!

Nothing wrong with an illegally deposed leader calling for support for another legally elected Govt from attacks by people laughingly calling themselves 'Democrats' Do you really imagine the yellow supporters are not paid thugs, the ones I saw last week looked like they would support anyone for the right price.

[sms747]

Reports are saying that those shot were red shirt guards.

Sent from my phone ...

No doubt from their own side and with rubber bullets?

[Asiantravel]

Perhaps I am colour blind, but ... I have been reviewing a lot of press photographs of the past few days purporting to show anti-government protesters.

Here on these forums, we are told by the red shirt apologists that the anti-government protestors are evil "yellow shirts".

What I see is a lot of Thai flags, and very few yellow shirts. Methinks there is a concerted effort by some red apologists to misrepresent the facts on the ground.

The only misrepresentation around here is denying a political party that was legitimately voted in by the majority the right to govern until the end of its term

They are being denied the right to cheat at will.

Big difference

But do the majority feel they are being cheated?

[jdinasia]

+1.

Most people don't realise the majority of Reds just want what each of us have taken for granted most of our lives - a fair and equal crack of the whip, equality and justice for all. The Yellows want Thailand how it used to be, and still is in a lot of circles; a caste type system, the rich stay rich and/or get richer, the poor know their place, stay in their place, low or no education, so they can continue as fodder for the factories, construction sites, and maids and servants for the elite. There is no way the Dems/Yellows would have ever put in the infrastructure there is now in the villages and towns in the North and NE. That is why this is turning into a class struggle - working class = Reds, elite = Yellows. Seems most people on this forum support snobbery and elitism, not seeing past the government is corrupt <deleted>. They are ALL corrupt, Dems no better than the rest, proven down the decades.

Pardon me but I call BS on that!

If your incredibly wrong and incredibly oversimplified statements of a class struggle were true even in general .... The South and the West would be red as well as the NE and the N .. yet they are not.

The fact that TRT.PPP/PTP have failed to make any really significant changes in the client patron system other than to strengthen it some in the NE comes as no surprise to many. That people like you miss that fact is surprising! (and very very sad) ... From the village loan scheme to the rice pledging scheme the policies have just widened the gap and added debt to villages. The regional power families are as entrenched now as they were 12 years ago. That is the "caste system" in Thailand. The client/patron system. It can work well if the patron is reasonably selfless (or simply merely reasonable,) Unforyunately that is not how it works in the PTP (etc) system. The client patron system crushes the clients by pretending to be kind while in fact adding to the burden the client has.

.

[fasteddie]

The only surprise is (if it were a surprise) is that it has taken so long for the blood to start flowing and the deaths to start.

And all the while 'the square faced man' is on the beach in Dubai saying "it's not me" when in fact he is, has been and will remain the number one disease afflicting the realm.

There is a very simple solution and I am uncertain why it has never been acted upon

"There is a very simple solution and I am uncertain why it has never been acted upon"

Enlighten us all please great sage.

[AlphMichaels]

Everyone..., listen up. I don't care if BOTH sides are steeped in corruption, which would seem to be the case, any way you look at it. The prevailing sentiment says they're both equally guilty of abuse of power and corruption. I can't speak to the level of it on either side and those who think they can are throwing out pure conjecture or event based "controversial" incidents. Sure that statement will bring the wrath of TV posters to pounce.

The only way to establish and maintain a democracy..., even when the elected party and its leaders are deemed to be corrupt..., must play out by accepting those who have been elected by the people. Whether legitimately or by virtue of them "giving back" to those who aided in their elections..., the vote of the people must stand until 'next elections' come about.

The amnesty bill wasn't ALL about Thaksin but everyone wants to say so. It was also about Abhisit who, may I remind readers, has been indicted for murder. In fact the bill was aimed to pardon combatants going all the way back to 2004. There are MANY who the amnesty bill would have exonerated and on both sides of this divide., IMHO, for all the right reasons. Let the past remain in the past and work on the present, then the future.

Aung San Suu Kyi who just happens to have a good handle on the matters of the SE Asian populace in matters like these said something a few years ago that really stuck with me. Forgive me if I misquote...., "It's not power that corrupts but fear. Fear of losing power corrupts the people who have it and fear of power corrupts those who are subject to it".

I know how to solve this once and for all. Thailand is comprised of some 23 million people...., over 2/3 live in the rural countryside. Send all those who protest the current "majority elected" government to the north for rice harvest. Let them toil in the fields for 30 days, living a subsistence lifestyle and caring only about their families, a place to sleep and food in their stomachs. Let them wear the mud of the fields on their feet and hands. Let them bathe from a bucket or cistern. Let them sleep on the floor and feel the frigid temperatures of December & January. Let them forage for food from the fields they til and harvest.

Short of that highly unlikely scenario, what has begun again (I fear) will be far worse than what we saw in 2010. And it saddens me for the masses who deserve a better way of life. Suthep's epitaph may not read well in the years to come and he has placed the people of Thailand in grave danger. I question his love for all the people of Thailand.

And so it begins..., again. I sense with far reaching consequence that can only damage a country and its people who I love. This could be a new chapter that will be a very bad one for Thailand.

maybe a long diatribe and it shows how out of touch you are.winning elections and then doing what ever you want aint democracy .Absolute power corrupts absolutely.GET REAL. PS. Your knowledge of thailand is summed up by the population figure of"23 million" you quote

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thanks for your feedback King Alfred - Think I can speak with a modicum of intelligence to things along these lines. Masters in Political Science with focus on International Relations (Indiana University, USA) BS in Economics & Financial Markets (Yale...., ah hem..., USA).

I spoke to the matter of my population typo to an earlier poster. But let me again apologize...., to you. Last note. I've been coming to Thailand since 1992. Moved here in 2009. I'm 55 and "comfortably" retired. Do the math.

for all we know your degree was one yopu bought online, especiallty when you leave out pretty important bits from your rant.

!. Thaksin is a wanted criminal, his sister(the pm) will not allow an arrest warrant put out for him and has given him a thai passport, He (as a wanted criminal) runs the ptp(the govt) and tells them what to do. Maybe to you this is democracy but to everyone else it is a farce.

2. The ptp are in power because they are payng huge bribes(the rice subsidy) to the north while ignoring the south, if bribery was stopped thaksin would be in real trouble and so would the ptp.

3.The charges of murder againt the democrat leaders is a farce, there is no evidence(apart from red voices), it will be thrown out of court due to no direct ballistic matches to rifles used by soldiers, no order from them to shoot at/kill protesters, the fact that the reds were also firing the same variety of weapons of the same callibre.

4. There are no grenades being thrown by the anti govt protesters at hospitals etc unlike the reds, they are also not telling them to burn down Bangkok unlike the reds, the violence only started when the reds called for violence against the uni kids, Suthep has consistently said no violence and they had not caused any

Your rant is nothing but an appology for the reds/ptp/thaksin and is totally pathetic. For someone supposedly having an education and degree you are extremely stupid to the extreme as you have simply quoted a load of shit without any facts which is typical of red sympathisers. The biggest laugh is your degree, was it handed out at a kindergarten/pre school because what you wrote is ludicrous.

KingAlfred, I can assure you, my higher education at well-respected, globally renowned universities was earned and not purchased. Your jabs and innuendo speak volumes.

Aristotle said..., "In a democracy the poor will have more power than the rich, because there are more of them, and the will of the majority is supreme."

No need to wander any further into the shallow end of your pool.

[jdinasia]

But do the majority feel they are being cheated?

And again you fail to understand 2 things ... PTP did not get the majority of the votes. ... and in a democracy the minority voice counts.

[DocN]

+1.

Most people don't realise the majority of Reds just want what each of us have taken for granted most of our lives - a fair and equal crack of the whip, equality and justice for all. The Yellows want Thailand how it used to be, and still is in a lot of circles; a caste type system, the rich stay rich and/or get richer, the poor know their place, stay in their place, low or no education, so they can continue as fodder for the factories, construction sites, and maids and servants for the elite. There is no way the Dems/Yellows would have ever put in the infrastructure there is now in the villages and towns in the North and NE. That is why this is turning into a class struggle - working class = Reds, elite = Yellows. Seems most people on this forum support snobbery and elitism, not seeing past the government is corrupt <deleted>. They are ALL corrupt, Dems no better than the rest, proven down the decades.

Pardon me but I call BS on that!

If your incredibly wrong and incredibly oversimplified statements of a class struggle were true even in general .... The South and the West would be red as well as the NE and the N .. yet they are not.

The fact that TRT.PPP/PTP have failed to make any really significant changes in the client patron system other than to strengthen it some in the NE comes as no surprise to many. That people like you miss that fact is surprising! (and very very sad) ... From the village loan scheme to the rice pledging scheme the policies have just widened the gap and added debt to villages. The regional power families are as entrenched now as they were 12 years ago. That is the "caste system" in Thailand. The client/patron system. It can work well if the patron is reasonably selfless (or simply merely reasonable,) Unforyunately that is not how it works in the PTP (etc) system. The client patron system crushes the clients by pretending to be kind while in fact adding to the burden the client has.

.

You are absolutely right on the facts!

Thaksin and all of his aides are as much "elite" as Suthep, Abisith or others, even higher up the ladder.

The magical word here is "perception"!

I think many of the Thaksin- supporters perceive him, to be on their side!

And the people who call that stupid and complain about it, are the exact same people who had decades to either a) educate the "stupid" people or b ) give them the feeling, they give a hoot about the "poor and downtrodden".

They choose not to do so and so someone like Thaksin came along and got the "poor" behind him.

Now everybody is upset about the stupidity of "the people"...sad day for them!

[chrisrazz]

Perhaps I am colour blind, but ... I have been reviewing a lot of press photographs of the past few days purporting to show anti-government protesters.

Here on these forums, we are told by the red shirt apologists that the anti-government protestors are evil "yellow shirts".

What I see is a lot of Thai flags, and very few yellow shirts. Methinks there is a concerted effort by some red apologists to misrepresent the facts on the ground.

The only misrepresentation around here is denying a political party that was legitimately voted in by the majority the right to govern until the end of its term

Why do people like you come out with the same old trash comments about a rigged and paid for election that was heavily influenced with cash from a fugitive convicted criminal not even in Thailand? Then use it as your only basis for argument by calling it legitimate. Especially when it is in response to protests that are currently running to change that very element that is a cancer eating Thailand and its democracy.

Then have the ordasity to start your post off with 'The only misrepresentation here.......'

Stop embarrassing yourself. You clearly have no debating skills.

I can't count the amount of times the 'rigged election' vote buying is regurgitated on here. I'll ask this question. How many losing candidates cried 'foul' at the results? Educate me.

I'd like to point out that I am aware that candidates give cash incentives, but if you really think that 500 baht influences votes then you are more stupid than those handing out the cash. You don't see recipients turning down a second offer on the basis that they had already accepted a first. The people are not as stupid as some like to think or portray, they are well aware that the winning candidate is going to abuse the system to the fullest, it has always been the way.

Also, another crock of sh1t is the million baht village loan system being a vote rigging/buying tactic. Small loans are issued to villagers to assist their farming activities, they are interest bearing and are repaid in full at the end of the year if another loan is to be received. No repayment, no new loan. This keeps the farmers out of the clutches of the loan sharks (interest 5% a month) and rip off agricultural merchants. A rather good scheme, considering the land titles most farmers hold are not applicable for loans at banks. Again, if you think the village 'head', who is responsible for administering the system, has influence over the votes of villagers then you are again incorrect. These positions are also subject to election.

[thaiguzzi]

Disagree with all you have just written EXCEPT the rice scheme which is dumb and a mess, only helping the middle man. The reason the Dems are so strong in the south, is because they've bought these votes for decades. A lot of the landowners in the south are party affiliated with the Dems. Check out how much land Suthep owns, i think you can safely say all his workers vote Dem. Village loan scheme was actually a good idea, i know some people set themselves up quite well in business with it, otherwise they would still be just another rice farmer with his/her small plot.

[fasteddie]

Also the gov have not come out and advised that they no longer support the bill or will not bring it or any similar bill back

They just remained silent and advised that they will allow the senate to do as it it will.

Also if they did not bring the bill up, then no protestors in the streets, as that was what brought the protesters all out to begin with

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

So in your idea of democracy, any time a government attempts to pass a bill, reactionary forces can storm government buildings, police stations and army headquarters.

Nice.

[gerry1011]

 

One killed as 'V-Day' eve violence erupts

...

Speaking at the Democracy Monument demonstration base, ex-Democrat MP and protest leader Sathit Wongnongtoey claimed that some police officers had taken off their uniforms and donned red shirts to attack Ramkhamhaeng students in front of the university.

-- Phuket News 2013-12-01

These Democrats really dare... Even the most unbelievable lie is permitted.

What a bunch of insane people.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

 

 

The Democrat/Yellow Shirt/PAD thugs are desperate now.

 

They have :

 

Got students to shoot other students and claim its red shirts.

Let off fireworks and then tried to claim reds firing RPG's

Told their supporters to go to the red rally yesterday and create violence against reds on their TV and radio stations.

Faked and doctored many photos to try to hide the fact they are violent yellow shirt/Democrat/PAD thugs.

Put out a fake story and photo about Yingluck leaving to South Africa

Trying to seize media outlets to

 

The list goes on and on.

 

They are desperate and now are resorting to their normal violence as seen in 2006 and 2008 - they are scum, nothing but disgusting scum.

 

The Democrat Party are now finished - not many voted for them before - and now they will get even less. They know now they have to seize power by illegitimate means because nobody will forgive them for what they are doing now.

 

If I were you, I would put the word students between " "...

It appears to be just a kind of nickname for yellow thugs hired by the Dems to incite violent confrontation.

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[jdinasia]

and really ... quoting Aristotle in regards to democracy in 2013? Does ochlocracy ring a bell? What about Tyranny of the Majority? (which PTP does hold a majority of the seats in the lower house.)

The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.

—The History of Freedom in Antiquity, 1877 (Lord Acton)

[Emptyset]

I'm talking about using lethal force as a last resort. What amazing restraint Yingluck has shown. Just imagine a group of violent thugs trying to storm Capitol Hill or the White House. It would be shoot first ask questions later.

First ---- your assertion of "violent thugs". This has been fairly non-violent other than the outbreak of extreme violence around RU. That was started by the reds, but sadly ramped up by the students. Look into today's Breaking News section and you will see the majority of the serious violence can be laid completely at the feet of the reds that were here to "defend the government"

Why do you say violence was started by the reds? None of the journalists at the scene said that. Quite the opposite. As for the more serious violence, details are still very murky. How do we know for sure who the snipers 'that are claimed (by both sides, it seems) were involved are either? Have to wait and see if more details emerge on this. Incidentally, people that attacked students were said to be local reds, rather than those who came to protest in the stadium, they emerged from the other direction and penned students in the area between them and the stadium, apparently. Of course, they are still reds. Just want to get away from the narrative that it's people coming down from the North and NE that are involved in this violence. Back in 2010 most of those who fought with military were Bangkok residents from working class areas and slums.

[Prbkk]

You keep repeating this and doing so does not make it true.: 48/75 is an overwhelming majority, no matter how much you dislike that . To put it in perspective, you would have to go back to 1964, Johnson /Goldwater to see a victory of that magnitude in a US Presidential election

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

And again you fail to understand 2 things ... PTP did not get the majority of the votes. ... and in a democracy the minority voice counts.

But do the majority feel they are being cheated?

Edited December 1, 2013 by Prbkk

[fasteddie]

Also the gov have not come out and advised that they no longer support the bill or will not bring it or any similar bill back

They just remained silent and advised that they will allow the senate to do as it it will.

Also if they did not bring the bill up, then no protestors in the streets, as that was what brought the protesters all out to begin with

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

"or will not bring it or any similar bill back"

Yingluck has, please pay attention!

Edited December 1, 2013 by fasteddie

[Emptyset]

Reports are saying that those shot were red shirt guards.

Sent from my phone ...

Actually, someone shot at about 2am was a red shirt guard, and another shot a short time ago. Both dead.

Sent from my phone ...

Actually he was a soldier - with varying reports as to his allegiance (his GF says White - others say Red) - but not a Red Guard. Other killed was a student, one of the 4 shot as Ram after the cops refused to come following a call from the Rector and students.

His GF says red according to BKK Post. Prachatai claims two reds were killed: http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3773

[wolf5370]

Perhaps I am colour blind, but ... I have been reviewing a lot of press photographs of the past few days purporting to show anti-government protesters.

Here on these forums, we are told by the red shirt apologists that the anti-government protestors are evil "yellow shirts".

What I see is a lot of Thai flags, and very few yellow shirts. Methinks there is a concerted effort by some red apologists to misrepresent the facts on the ground.

The only misrepresentation around here is denying a political party that was legitimately voted in by the majority the right to govern until the end of its term

Why do people like you come out with the same old trash comments about a rigged and paid for election that was heavily influenced with cash from a fugitive convicted criminal not even in Thailand? Then use it as your only basis for argument by calling it legitimate. Especially when it is in response to protests that are currently running to change that very element that is a cancer eating Thailand and its democracy.

Then have the ordasity to start your post off with 'The only misrepresentation here.......'

Stop embarrassing yourself. You clearly have no debating skills.

I can't count the amount of times the 'rigged election' vote buying is regurgitated on here. I'll ask this question. How many losing candidates cried 'foul' at the results? Educate me.

I'd like to point out that I am aware that candidates give cash incentives, but if you really think that 500 baht influences votes then you are more stupid than those handing out the cash. You don't see recipients turning down a second offer on the basis that they had already accepted a first. The people are not as stupid as some like to think or portray, they are well aware that the winning candidate is going to abuse the system to the fullest, it has always been the way.

Also, another crock of sh1t is the million baht village loan system being a vote rigging/buying tactic. Small loans are issued to villagers to assist their farming activities, they are interest bearing and are repaid in full at the end of the year if another loan is to be received. No repayment, no new loan. This keeps the farmers out of the clutches of the loan sharks (interest 5% a month) and rip off agricultural merchants. A rather good scheme, considering the land titles most farmers hold are not applicable for loans at banks. Again, if you think the village 'head', who is responsible for administering the system, has influence over the votes of villagers then you are again incorrect. These positions are also subject to election.

If the 500 - 2000 baht "incentive to vote" didn't influence them, maybe the fact the booths were turned around and they were watched whilst voting - and the armed thugs outside - helped too.

However, as you say both side buy votes (all sides probably) - though without the pull to do the booth and intimidation tricks - the fact is as stated over and over and over, the people give a mandate to the government to run the country based on the manifesto policies and promises they make and that they will be honest and true and run the country with integrity and selflessly - and the people have a right to stand against the government if they deem them to be in breach of that mandate. It is irrelevant how (or not) rigged the election was - if they fail to abide by their mandate. This is what happened in 2010, the people lead by the Reds deemed the Democrat government to be without a valid mandate, so took to the streets. The same is happening again.

Both government were legitimate according to the rules in Thailand, ignoring any propaganda and/or accusations which have been proved against neither, and both received (are receiving) a similar reaction from a significant section of society.

[stickylies]

Here we go again...

same same but different (not...)

[jdinasia]

"or will not bring it or any similar bill back"

Yingluck has, please pay attention!

Yingluck has already said that she does not control the MP's, that she is "government" ..... The bill (contrary to your assertion) is not dead. It is in an 180 day limbo. After those days pass, it can be voted into law by those very same MP's she claims she does not control. and all it takes is 50%+1 -- no oversight by any other group. With Thailand's history of late, would you trust PTP MP's not to vote on that bill? The only way it dies is for this government to call a snap election.

[wolf5370]

Reports are saying that those shot were red shirt guards.

Sent from my phone ...

Actually, someone shot at about 2am was a red shirt guard, and another shot a short time ago. Both dead.

Sent from my phone ...

Actually he was a soldier - with varying reports as to his allegiance (his GF says White - others say Red) - but not a Red Guard. Other killed was a student, one of the 4 shot as Ram after the cops refused to come following a call from the Rector and students.

His GF says red according to BKK Post. Prachatai claims two reds were killed: http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3773

Yes BKK Post did later report that - but Twitter feed at the time of the announcement (around 3am or just before) stated the exact opposite - hard to dig out on Twitter as its been going nuts and I get a page full every 20 minutes - going back to 3am is just too much work! (I did try and gave up). It may be a TV retweet. The point being, as I said, mixed reports.

[wolf5370]

"or will not bring it or any similar bill back"

Yingluck has, please pay attention!

Yingluck has already said that she does not control the MP's, that she is "government" ..... The bill (contrary to your assertion) is not dead. It is in an 180 day limbo. After those days pass, it can be voted into law by those very same MP's she claims she does not control. and all it takes is 50%+1 -- no oversight by any other group. With Thailand's history of late, would you trust PTP MP's not to vote on that bill? The only way it dies is for this government to call a snap election.

Which would be the best option - better than Sutheps "plan" or the status quo. However, neither of them want that because too many unknowns in that direction.

[HOOD Robin]

listen to this puppet's statement, i have to puke when i hear her say "i am elected by the people" and "i am devoted to serve the people" and "it's me who rules the country, not my brother"....

Doesnt she realize she makes a big fool of herself ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmrtaJsQO58

Bahhh... GET HER OUT together with her big brother !!!

[jdinasia]

You keep repeating this and doing so does not make it true.: 48/75 is an overwhelming majority, no matter how much you dislike that . To put it in perspective, you would have to go back to 1964, Johnson /Goldwater to see a victory of that magnitude in a US Presidential election

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Please learn how to get the quotes right ......

I am sorry that you do not understand English, but just this once I will help you with your vocabulary (hint -- less than 50%+1 is never a majority)

You keep mistaking a plurality then it comes to population .. which would NEVER apply. To say "the majority of voters" it has to mean 50%+1 or more.

Plurality and Majority

In order to win a plurality, a candidate must receive a greater number of votes than anyone running against him. If he receives 50 votes, for example, and two other candidates receive 49 and 2, he will have a plurality of one vote over his closest opponent.

However, a candidate does not have a majority unless he receives more than 50% of the total votes cast. In the example above, the candidate does not have a majority, because his 50 votes are 50% or less than the 101 votes cast.

Read more: Plurality and Majority | Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781456.html#ixzz2mDFy53Og

[fasteddie]

I have been saying for several months that we are on the verge of civil war, never wishing for my vision to be proven correct. The only way to bring this to an end now is for the Army to take over... and for YL and her cronies to get on a plane to somewhere else...!

"never wishing for my vision to be proven correct."

And yet, you call for the one thing that would guarantee it.