1 dead, four people shot at Ramkhamhaeng University after clashes

[wolf5370]

Reports are saying that those shot were red shirt guards.

Sent from my phone ...

Actually, someone shot at about 2am was a red shirt guard, and another shot a short time ago. Both dead.

Sent from my phone ...

Actually he was a soldier - with varying reports as to his allegiance (his GF says White - others say Red) - but not a Red Guard. Other killed was a student, one of the 4 shot as Ram after the cops refused to come following a call from the Rector and students.

His GF says red according to BKK Post. Prachatai claims two reds were killed: http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3773

(bastard TV just ate my post - again!)

Yes BKK Post reported that - however original twitter feed from around 2:30-3:00am stated that she said he was there to support the Demonstrators. So like I suggested, mixed reports 0 not that it is as important as the fact he is dead!

Aree Krainara stated 4 Reds killed, shot by snipers during the night (no bodies seem to have got the media or the morgue or Erawan yet). Jatuporn also, earlier, stated that 4 Reds were killed. Thida said she wasn;'t sure about Jatuporn's announcement.

[Biscuit22]

Trying to pull this thread back on topic.

Currently going on over at the side of town the topic is related to....

Now isn't that the bus that was seen mysteriously smuggling people into the area just before the shooting started?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HcFedj5pgg#t=0

Strange now that things are dying down it is mysteriously burned.

Destroy any forensic evidence perhaps?

Edited December 1, 2013 by Biscuit22

[Emptyset]

Actually he was a soldier - with varying reports as to his allegiance (his GF says White - others say Red) - but not a Red Guard. Other killed was a student, one of the 4 shot as Ram after the cops refused to come following a call from the Rector and students.

His GF says red according to BKK Post. Prachatai claims two reds were killed: http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3773

(bastard TV just ate my post - again!)

Yes BKK Post reported that - however original twitter feed from around 2:30-3:00am stated that she said he was there to support the Demonstrators. So like I suggested, mixed reports 0 not that it is as important as the fact he is dead!

Aree Krainara stated 4 Reds killed, shot by snipers during the night (no bodies seem to have got the media or the morgue or Erawan yet). Jatuporn also, earlier, stated that 4 Reds were killed. Thida said she wasn;'t sure about Jatuporn's announcement.

Yeah, I saw that. Both sides seem to be saying they were fired upon by snipers... and have seen some reds and anti-govt both claiming that the first guy that shot student was a policeman. This is all social media stuff. As I say, very murky at this point and now there seems to be two buses on fire over there, after an 'unknown group' emerged...

[jdinasia]

Why do you say violence was starteou.d by the reds? None of the journalists at the scene said that. Quite the opposite. As for the more serious violence, details are still very murky. How do we know for sure who the snipers 'that are claimed (by both sides, it seems) were involved are either? Have to wait and see if more details emerge on this. Incidentally, people that attacked students were said to be local reds, rather than those who came to protest in the stadium, they emerged from the other direction and penned students in the area between them and the stadium, apparently. Of course, they are still reds. Just want to get away from the narrative that it's people coming down from the North and NE that are involved in this violence. Back in 2010 most of those who fought with military were Bangkok residents from working class areas and slums.

Fair question

You do remember that yesterday before it kicked of I was talking about that ThaiRath article? The one where the rector chastised the police (and the reds) about the 2 students that were injured by the reds. That would be ... ummm ... violence started by the reds. That journalists do not always see the beginning of something is not news to me or you. Yes, I never did finish the research on that to find out when the 2 students were injured. It could have been earlier in the day or on a previous day, but the action of the students kicked off shortly after the Thairath article condemning the reds and police came out. I do not doubt that to someone on the street it looked simply as if the students started it either as something planned, spontaneous, or in response to Jatuporn's threats.

Local reds versus imported reds ... (the snarky quip-- I prefer a nice SA Merlot -sorry!) Though it certainly is not impossible that i was locals, I do see a strong argument that would discredit that, The locals still have to live there amongst the students when the imports are gone. Directionality just doesn't cut it as a determiner of where they actually are fom, it just tells where they were coming from.

Your final assertion of fact that "most that fought the military,,," is actually conjecture isn't it? I do remember the rumours of the recruiting drives in Khlong Toey but was that ever verified? (note I do not doubr for a second that there were locals involved in 2010, I just have issue with the assertion of fact that "most"...

[Prbkk]

You keep repeating this and doing so does not make it true.: 48/75 is an overwhelming majority, no matter how much you dislike that . To put it in perspective, you would have to go back to 1964, Johnson /Goldwater to see a victory of that magnitude in a US Presidential election

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Please learn how to get the quotes right ......

I am sorry that you do not understand English, but just this once I will help you with your vocabulary (hint -- less than 50%+1 is never a majority)

You keep mistaking a plurality then it comes to population .. which would NEVER apply. To say "the majority of voters" it has to mean 50%+1 or more.

Plurality and Majority

In order to win a plurality, a candidate must receive a greater number of votes than anyone running against him. If he receives 50 votes, for example, and two other candidates receive 49 and 2, he will have a plurality of one vote over his closest opponent.

However, a candidate does not have a majority unless he receives more than 50% of the total votes cast. In the example above, the candidate does not have a majority, because his 50 votes are 50% or less than the 101 votes cast.

Read more: Plurality and Majority | Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781456.html#ixzz2mDFy53Og

yes, sorry about the quotes. I struggle to get that right

By your calculation, no US president or UK PM would ever have legitimacy and therefore be subject to the same argument you apply to Thailand. It is fantasy.

[dunque]

How is this all not just universally labeled "Suthep's fault"? He got what he wanted, and then continued to add fuel to the fire of the protesters. It is obvious that his motive is to cause mayhem/death/chaos in the country.

Just following the fascist play book.

[Chao Lao Beach]

Reports on TV now saying 4 were murdered at University by the red shirts.

[Chao Lao Beach]

Channel 3 signal blocked when the leader of the protest is shown talking.

Thumbs up for suppression

[Biscuit22]

Channel 3 signal blocked when the leader of the protest is shown talking.

Thumbs up for suppression

Oh... So I suppose that the entire nation would have stayed tuned to CH3 instead of switching over to one of the many channels that were showing it.

I don't think it suppressed a single thing. It just turned them into a legitimate target for destruction by the protesters when it really goes off big time.

[astral]

Let's stay on the topic, which is the troubles in Thailand

not the US or UK electoral systems.

[wolf5370]

Channel 3 signal blocked when the leader of the protest is shown talking.

Thumbs up for suppression

Oh... So I suppose that the entire nation would have stayed tuned to CH3 instead of switching over to one of the many channels that were showing it.

I don't think it suppressed a single thing. It just turned them into a legitimate target for destruction by the protesters when it really goes off big time.

I agree - there was patching in from a web feed that keeps going down (BlueSky dropped too) - much more likely to be technical difficulties as suggested - unlike Ch.9 who switched to a Quiz Show.

[AleG]

Trying to pull this thread back on topic.

Currently going on over at the side of town the topic is related to....

Now isn't that the bus that was seen mysteriously smuggling people into the area just before the shooting started?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HcFedj5pgg#t=0

Strange now that things are dying down it is mysteriously burned.

Destroy any forensic evidence perhaps?

Looks the same as the one in the video with men coming out of the bus while one of them "provided cover" with a handgun.

[jdinasia]

Yingluck has already said that she does not control the MP's, that she is "government" ..... The bill (contrary to your assertion) is not dead. It is in an 180 day limbo. After those days pass, it can be voted into law by those very same MP's she claims she does not control. and all it takes is 50%+1 -- no oversight by any other group. With Thailand's history of late, would you trust PTP MP's not to vote on that bill? The only way it dies is for this government to call a snap election.

Which would be the best option - better than Sutheps "plan" or the status quo. However, neither of them want that because too many unknowns in that direction.

IMHO, I think we will see another coup.

I do not think that Suthep will be consulted afterwards.

If it happens I would like to see Anand put in charge of getting another constitution together and for the military to hand off the gov't to Anand or Mechai V. with a unity government put in place for a maximum of 2 years while the new constitution and the organic laws against corruption along with the penalties are strengthened.

I have not thought a lot about the composition of either the government or the legislature in that Unity Gov't, but is should not include anyone that was at all involved in the turmoil of the last 8 years. No Shinawatras ... no Suthep, no Abhisit (as much as I still like him) etc etc. Absolutely nobody that has ever been accused of corruption.

Charge the Unity Government with 3 duties.

1)Carry out the standard business of Gov't.

2)Work to focus on making a better life for all Thais -- starting with education and infrastructure (like power grid, roads, etc... In places with nothing to recommend them for industry etc, then make sure that water is available for crops. One reason for poverty in some areas is absolutely no water much of the year for irrigation.

3)Deal with the political divisions and reconciliation. Not just Red/Yellow but also the Southern 4 provinces! Assure greater autonomy including electing their own officials. Allow the South just enough autonomy to let them be themselves. So many are not ethnic Thais, they have their own language and culture, allow its usage in banking and government locally, while still requiring Thai language acquisition and use. etc etc

[jdinasia]

Trying to pull this thread back on topic.

Currently going on over at the side of town the topic is related to....

Now isn't that the bus that was seen mysteriously smuggling people into the area just before the shooting started?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HcFedj5pgg#t=0

Strange now that things are dying down it is mysteriously burned.

Destroy any forensic evidence perhaps?

Looks the same as the one in the video with men coming out of the bus while one of them "provided cover" with a handgun.

There is a Thai PBS reporter's tweet of a body/bones found on it with a pic .... not yet confirmed. (it was retweeted by Richard Barrow

[Biscuit22]

Trying to pull this thread back on topic.

Currently going on over at the side of town the topic is related to....

Now isn't that the bus that was seen mysteriously smuggling people into the area just before the shooting started?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HcFedj5pgg#t=0

Strange now that things are dying down it is mysteriously burned.

Destroy any forensic evidence perhaps?

Looks the same as the one in the video with men coming out of the bus while one of them "provided cover" with a handgun.

That is because it IS the same bus, which is now being reported as having the remains of a body inside.

The whole thing gets dirtier by the hour.

[Siripon]

Yingluck has already said that she does not control the MP's, that she is "government" ..... The bill (contrary to your assertion) is not dead. It is in an 180 day limbo. After those days pass, it can be voted into law by those very same MP's she claims she does not control. and all it takes is 50%+1 -- no oversight by any other group. With Thailand's history of late, would you trust PTP MP's not to vote on that bill? The only way it dies is for this government to call a snap election.

Which would be the best option - better than Sutheps "plan" or the status quo. However, neither of them want that because too many unknowns in that direction.

IMHO, I think we will see another coup.

I do not think that Suthep will be consulted afterwards.

If it happens I would like to see Anand put in charge of getting another constitution together and for the military to hand off the gov't to Anand or Mechai V. with a unity government put in place for a maximum of 2 years while the new constitution and the organic laws against corruption along with the penalties are strengthened.

I have not thought a lot about the composition of either the government or the legislature in that Unity Gov't, but is should not include anyone that was at all involved in the turmoil of the last 8 years. No Shinawatras ... no Suthep, no Abhisit (as much as I still like him) etc etc. Absolutely nobody that has ever been accused of corruption.

Charge the Unity Government with 3 duties.

1)Carry out the standard business of Gov't.

2)Work to focus on making a better life for all Thais -- starting with education and infrastructure (like power grid, roads, etc... In places with nothing to recommend them for industry etc, then make sure that water is available for crops. One reason for poverty in some areas is absolutely no water much of the year for irrigation.

3)Deal with the political divisions and reconciliation. Not just Red/Yellow but also the Southern 4 provinces! Assure greater autonomy including electing their own officials. Allow the South just enough autonomy to let them be themselves. So many are not ethnic Thais, they have their own language and culture, allow its usage in banking and government locally, while still requiring Thai language acquisition and use. etc etc

Good idea Jdinasia , but if I remember rightly Anand turned down the opportunity after the coup against Thaksin, claiming old age, weariness.

It's difficult to find seniors who aren't accused by one of the sides of bias, but amongst the technocrats and academics they could probably put together a good enough team.

I wonder how many Pheua Thai MPs would be happy to see the backs of Yaopawa and her family. A considerable amount probably.

[fasteddie]

"or will not bring it or any similar bill back"

Yingluck has, please pay attention!

Yingluck has already said that she does not control the MP's, that she is "government" ..... The bill (contrary to your assertion) is not dead. It is in an 180 day limbo. After those days pass, it can be voted into law by those very same MP's she claims she does not control. and all it takes is 50%+1 -- no oversight by any other group. With Thailand's history of late, would you trust PTP MP's not to vote on that bill? The only way it dies is for this government to call a snap election.

Yingluck has stated she will not reinstate the bill, she has seen the trouble it has caused, even many red shirts don't want it.

The real problem here is Suthep's reactionary elitist forces refusal to release their grip on power and accept Thailand is a democracy.

[Prbkk]

Trying to pull this thread back on topic.

Currently going on over at the side of town the topic is related to....

Now isn't that the bus that was seen mysteriously smuggling people into the area just before the shooting started?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HcFedj5pgg#t=0

Strange now that things are dying down it is mysteriously burned.

Destroy any forensic evidence perhaps?

Looks the same as the one in the video with men coming out of the bus while one of them "provided cover" with a handgun.

That is because it IS the same bus, which is now being reported as having the remains of a body inside.

The whole thing gets dirtier by the hour.

anyone able to summarize the report?

[jdinasia]

Good idea Jdinasia , but if I remember rightly Anand turned down the opportunity after the coup against Thaksin, claiming old age, weariness.

It's difficult to find seniors who aren't accused by one of the sides of bias, but amongst the technocrats and academics they could probably put together a good enough team.

I wonder how many Pheua Thai MPs would be happy to see the backs of Yaopawa and her family. A considerable amount probably.

I am sure that with the right person asking Anand or Mechai V. could be convinced to step in for the short term.

Nobody upcountry would have a problem with Mechai V. for sure! He did more to alleviate extreme poverty through his familly planning and AIDS initiatives than any other person in Thailand can claim credit for!

Sadly most of the other names I know, I know because of their association with scandal!

[wolf5370]

"or will not bring it or any similar bill back"

Yingluck has, please pay attention!

Yingluck has already said that she does not control the MP's, that she is "government" ..... The bill (contrary to your assertion) is not dead. It is in an 180 day limbo. After those days pass, it can be voted into law by those very same MP's she claims she does not control. and all it takes is 50%+1 -- no oversight by any other group. With Thailand's history of late, would you trust PTP MP's not to vote on that bill? The only way it dies is for this government to call a snap election.

Yingluck has stated she will not reinstate the bill, she has seen the trouble it has caused, even many red shirts don't want it.

The real problem here is Suthep's reactionary elitist forces refusal to release their grip on power and accept Thailand is a democracy.

The problem is no one believes her word - in 180 days she could walk it through with no ability for it to be stopped under the 50%+1 rule. It is too much of a risk - and her integrity in keeping her word is not the best (as is any Thai politician I can think of for that!).

[DrDweeb]

They are fighting for the end of government corruption and the Thaksin influence in Thai politics. Corruption and influence that put this rabble of a government in power in the first place. They would be welcomed to finish their term had they not been so damned aligned and loyal to Thaksin.

That's mighty decent from the minority opposition to consider allowing the majority to finish the elected term. If only they did exactly what the opposition wanted.

They can't seem to get it into their heads that Thaksin remains a highly respected person within the majority party. The likes of The Nation run countless stories how he's the bogeyman and the root of all evil, tirelessly prefixing him with the title 'fugituve' ad vomitum. That doesnt mean that the majority of the country sees it that way. And neither does the international press. They see Thaksin's conviction (in absentia) for something so incredibly minor that it's clear to see it was a politically motivated show trial, shortly after a military coup. What Thaksin was convicted for is the same sort of business dealing that Suthep did all day long during his entire career.

+1.

Most people don't realise the majority of Reds just want what each of us have taken for granted most of our lives - a fair and equal crack of the whip, equality and justice for all. The Yellows want Thailand how it used to be, and still is in a lot of circles; a caste type system, the rich stay rich and/or get richer, the poor know their place, stay in their place, low or no education, so they can continue as fodder for the factories, construction sites, and maids and servants for the elite. There is no way the Dems/Yellows would have ever put in the infrastructure there is now in the villages and towns in the North and NE. That is why this is turning into a class struggle - working class = Reds, elite = Yellows. Seems most people on this forum support snobbery and elitism, not seeing past the government is corrupt <deleted>. They are ALL corrupt, Dems no better than the rest, proven down the decades.

Who cares what the Yellows want? I do not see the yellows protesting in the press coverage. I see Thais protesting at their puppet government and that government's paid lackeys the reds doing what they get paid to do.

Spare us your marxist class claptrap please and the standard PTP fairytale about "elite yellows". It in no way excuses the PTP, TS or the whole shower of w*kers for what is going on, and the fairytale is for the most part a bogus fabrication in any case.

There are precious few elite yellows in the crowds, or any significant number of yellows as far as I can see.

History is full of apologists, invariably they are harshly and righfully pilloried by history. Take a ticket in the queue.

[CMrealEstate]

violence was inevitable in this matter. The Karaoke party that finally turned dangerous. Did anyone happen to notice the person behind the taxi is wearing an Iron Maiden T-shirt?

[i claudius]

I know that this will not go down to well on here ,but to be honest its what most of us are thinking ,as long as the baht goes down and our own currency goes up and nobody has a go at us,we dont give a flying fart who runs the country.

many of you may shout and argue ,but in the end thats what we privatly think.

[wolf5370]

violence was inevitable in this matter. The Karaoke party that finally turned dangerous. Did anyone happen to notice the person behind the taxi is wearing an Iron Maiden T-shirt?

Yep I did - first thing I said was, "Whoa Iron Maiden T-Shirt"- before mentally rebuking my tactlessness

(Think I had the same one)

[wolf5370]

I know that this will not go down to well on here ,but to be honest its what most of us are thinking ,as long as the baht goes down and our own currency goes up and nobody has a go at us,we dont give a flying fart who runs the country.

many of you may shout and argue ,but in the end thats what we privatly think.

I would suggest only those without Thai families are thinking that. But of course it is a consideration

[brewsterbudgen]

Sad to see some here advocating a military coup as a solution or an all-out civil war between the police and army!

[Valentine]

I know that this will not go down to well on here ,but to be honest its what most of us are thinking ,as long as the baht goes down and our own currency goes up and nobody has a go at us,we dont give a flying fart who runs the country.

many of you may shout and argue ,but in the end thats what we privatly think.

I beg to differ with your selfish, cynical thoughts. Anyone, no matter where they are from, with an ounce of compassion & humanity in their bones would be thinking quite differently. There are at least 4 or 5 deaths at this stage & all you think about is your own comfort. Unbelievable.

[Prbkk]

violence was inevitable in this matter. The Karaoke party that finally turned dangerous. Did anyone happen to notice the person behind the taxi is wearing an Iron Maiden T-shirt?

Maggie Thatcher? What next!

[zydeco]

I know that this will not go down to well on here ,but to be honest its what most of us are thinking ,as long as the baht goes down and our own currency goes up and nobody has a go at us,we dont give a flying fart who runs the country.

many of you may shout and argue ,but in the end thats what we privatly think.

Well I do care. Some of us have Thai family connections. Probably a lot of people are just like me, with the family divided between yellow and red. And I DO NOT want to see anything bad happen to ANY of them.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. There is a separate topic running regarding tear gas fired at protesters.