Bangkok - Descent into chaos

[DocN]

It is like watching a "Twilight Zone"- Supermarket!

Child No.1 "Mommy...I want aaaaaaaaaaaall the chocolate!" "But you can not have all the chocolate!" "Let's see!" (starts stealing chocolate, get's caught, put back the chocolate...only to try and steal a lollipop a few minutes later).

Child No.2 "Mommy...I want the toys, the other children have!" "So ask them nicely. Maybe they will share.""But I don't want to share! I want them all for myself! The other children are dirty and stupid and they should not play with the nice toys" (runs of to steal the toys)

Child No.3 ...sitting on the floor, eyes closed, fingers in the ears going "lalalalalala...this is the best supermarket in the wordl....lalalalala..."

Child No. 4 is sitting on the top-shelf of the candy- section, stuffing candies in its mouth. If the security arrives, they will be chased away by the parents.

Child No.5 is silently mopping the floor for a few Baht a day, while his 16 year old sister is giving the supermarket manager a BJ for 2000 Baht. The manager therefor states, he is totally supporting the poor.

...and in front of the window, there are a bunch of adults, watching the scenery with a mixture of disbelieve and amusement...

[Gummigalgen]

I don't like the fact that I predicted this outcome several weeks ago, as I always felt that the situation would become so dire that YL would have no option but to resign and call for new elections. In any other democracy in the world this would have happened weeks ago, as there is no point in trying to hold on to power when it is clear that a huge proportion of the population is against you.

Unfortunately, this is not a democracy at all, it is an autocracy created by a fugitive criminal who did not have the guts to return to his home country and 'face the music', but instead, felt that he could run the country from afar. Sitting in comfort in Dubai he will no doubt be telling his sister and his other well-paid employees to hang in there because victory is in sight. Sadly, he couldn't be further from the truth...!

What we currently have is a last ditch heavy-handed attempt to use the police to "appease" the crowd, but there is no appeasing this crowd. This government has to fall in order to end this, and the police have to withdraw before we start to see real civil war.

As I've said before, these people are not being paid to be there, they are there because they are passionate about their demand to see real democracy in this country. If TS and YL cannot see this, then they will go down in history as being responsible for the destruction of a once beautiful country.

I do not agree at all........Shinawatra as a self made business man was never really accepted by the Bangkok Elite and Military Top + monarchy. With Americans is always: "Follow the money" when you look for motives..... With Thais it is always: "Follow the jealousy". Shinawatra's popularity amongst the poorer working class and his business success + his remarks it would be time to reform somehow the Monarchy, triggered the situation in 2006.

Don't tell me Thailand was politically NOT a mess before Shinawatra even turned up. Military coups are like carnaval in Rio. One seems not to be able to live without conflicts.

[Sing_Sling]

"Chemically treated water?" Wouldn't that be considered to be a weapon of mass destruction by the UN?

It's nice to see the intellectual elite posting . . .

I hope they leave the airport alone. Flying out on the 15th for a hospital visit in australia. this time of year will be impossible to reschedule.

And in the context of 'me, me,me, me, me . . . look at me!!! Thank you for sharing this gem with us.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The usual apologists for criminal behaviour are out, irrespective of which 'side' they support . . . and we call Thais simpletons

[GeorgeO]

I don't like the fact that I predicted this outcome several weeks ago, as I always felt that the situation would become so dire that YL would have no option but to resign and call for new elections. In any other democracy in the world this would have happened weeks ago, as there is no point in trying to hold on to power when it is clear that a huge proportion of the population is against you.

Fair point. But where are you getting these figures? I've only seen protest numbers in the tens of thousands, versus the 15,744,190 people who voted her in. I don't think there's a reasonable democracy in the world that would throw out an elected leader on those grounds.

Firstly, given that the population of Thailand currently stands at 69.5 million, a vote of almost 15.75 million represents less than 23% support, which is hardly a majority. That indicates that a huge proportion of the population did not vote for her, so there is little need for me to further expand on my earlier statement.

Secondly, setting that issue aside, what is of greater importance is that what happened two years ago is of little relevance to the political stage here in Thailand today.

There have been countless examples of ill-considered policies during that two-year period that were clearly aimed at lining people's pockets before even considering the needs of the people, along with many broken promises that have even alienated some of their most hard-line supporters (e.g., the opposition to the Amnesty Bill amongst hard-line Red Shirts)

Add to this the FACT that many of these votes were bought - and please don't anyone try to tell me that there is no evidence of this, because Khun T is so bloody vein that he had himself videoed handing out the cash back in 2010 - some proportion of these people are now going to realise that their THB 500 or THB 1,000 has actually cost them a lot more out of their own pockets.

There are those in the PTP who have gone very quite, and indeed, they have probably gone somewhere else; for example, we have heard nothing from Jatuporn since Friday. As far as I'm concerned, that should be down to the fact that he is in jail for breaching his bail conditions, but I suspect that that is not the case, and that he is now on the run.

This is the beginning of the end, and I only hope that she has an ounce of dignity left in her that will allow her to recognise this and dissolve Parliament to end this period of strife. If she doesn't, things are going to get pretty bad, and this time around, the police will find that they cannot stand back and watch, because they are now facing the opposing team...and we will see if they have the balls for it ... !!

[Keesters]

I suspect the coffers will be virtually empty when these villains have all suddenly disappeared only to reappear with their beloved leader in Dubai.

This is basically what I said yesterday while I was discussing the matter with friends. Yingluck is only delaying the inevitable (resign and have an new election) so that the countries coffers can be emptied. If she is so confident that her party would win another election why not just put it to the vote.

[Gummigalgen]

I seen this paying out for votes. It really works up in Isaan. One hundred percent.

Yes, but this paying out for votes is being done by other parties too. I have seen this in the Isan as well. Abhisit's party included. Always blaming the Shinawatra clan for bribery. Look around..........

[Keesters]

the 60 or so millions of voters

What 60 or so millions of voters? There are nowhere near that number of registered voters in Thailand.

[fish fingers]

I'm in Srinakarin facing north and can hear the dull thud of explosions, I am guessing near the University?

[DiamondKing]

A lot of rubbish written by a man with no what so ever understanding of how a democracy is functioning, fully in line with Mr Suthep. And a totally disregard and contempt for the 60 or so millions of voters sitting at home, people who have elected the present goverment in to office. We can all have conspiracy teories, but i think we should be careful to voice them so clearly. When the law is broken time and time again i think any elected government has the right under its constitution to defend itself, king and people. The people on the streets now and their leaders have by now broken all rules in the book, and have already given up their right in my opinion to be heard. And when i hear the proclamation of peoples committes to run the country, what comes to mind is Pol Pot, North Korea and the old Soviet Union, they all had and have people committes and we all know the result of that.

First SENSIBLE post I have read in this thread of complete sickos who are supporting criminals that are nothing more than thugs that are breaking every law in the book.

The only way to remove a LEGALLY elected government is to have elections but that know they cannot will just like the past several of them, so the only other way is to take control by force.

I hope Suthep gets whats coming to him.

[bigbamboo]

"Chemically treated water?" Wouldn't that be considered to be a weapon of mass destruction by the UN?

Possibly.

Here it's called Thai beer.

[ridkun]

I suspect the coffers will be virtually empty when these villains have all suddenly disappeared only to reappear with their beloved leader in Dubai.

This is basically what I said yesterday while I was discussing the matter with friends. Yingluck is only delaying the inevitable (resign and have an new election) so that the countries coffers can be emptied. If she is so confident that her party would win another election why not just put it to the vote.

The point is that this is not the good timing for PTP. Election means more money to be paid in rural area, while they haven't cashed out from tax money yet as their both mega projects are still on hold.

[Jasun]

I don't like the fact that I predicted this outcome several weeks ago, as I always felt that the situation would become so dire that YL would have no option but to resign and call for new elections. In any other democracy in the world this would have happened weeks ago, as there is no point in trying to hold on to power when it is clear that a huge proportion of the population is against you.

Fair point. But where are you getting these figures? I've only seen protest numbers in the tens of thousands, versus the 15,744,190 people who voted her in. I don't think there's a reasonable democracy in the world that would throw out an elected leader on those grounds.

Firstly, given that the population of Thailand currently stands at 69.5 million, a vote of almost 15.75 million represents less than 23% support, which is hardly a majority. That indicates that a huge proportion of the population did not vote for her, so there is little need for me to further expand on my earlier statement.

Did you vote? Because you're an expat living in Thailand you've just included yourself in those figures. You also included my 3 year old son, and I guarantee you he was nowhere near a polling booth in 2011. There's a significant difference between population and elegible voters. The 15,744,190 people who voted PTP represented 48.41% of the popular vote.

I'm not here to disagree with you, but your arguments would have more credibility if there were even loosely based on fact.

[jpeg]

problem with an election is that Yingluck would be re elected. They have the money to pay for the votes needed. I think most people would like the whole Shinawatra clan out of Thailand for good

Then those 'most people' who've sat idly by whilst corruption and lack of law enforcement have been allowed to proliferate unheeded for decades deserve everything they bloody well get.

[catweazle]

Students fired at whilst inside the university ......... What a disgrace !!!

Not the first time - just google "Thammasat massacre", but have a whisky or two before that and make sure you are well seated... especially if you google for images.

[lostmebike]

A lot of rubbish written by a man with no what so ever understanding of how a democracy is functioning, fully in line with Mr Suthep. And a totally disregard and contempt for the 60 or so millions of voters sitting at home, people who have elected the present goverment in to office. We can all have conspiracy teories, but i think we should be careful to voice them so clearly. When the law is broken time and time again i think any elected government has the right under its constitution to defend itself, king and people. The people on the streets now and their leaders have by now broken all rules in the book, and have already given up their right in my opinion to be heard. And when i hear the proclamation of peoples committes to run the country, what comes to mind is Pol Pot, North Korea and the old Soviet Union, they all had and have people committes and we all know the result of that.

First SENSIBLE post I have read in this thread of complete sickos who are supporting criminals that are nothing more than thugs that are breaking every law in the book.

The only way to remove a LEGALLY elected government is to have elections but that know they cannot will just like the past several of them, so the only other way is to take control by force.

I hope Suthep gets whats coming to him.

First SENSIBLE post I have read in this thread of complete sickos who are supporting criminals that are nothing more than thugs that are breaking every law in the book.

Then you say:

The only way to remove a LEGALLY elected government is to have elections but that know they cannot will just like the past several of them

'People in glass houses'

[newermonkey]

"Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra's whereabouts were unknown yesterday although her secretary said that she was still in Thailand, discounting earlier rumours that she had left the country."

Undoubtedly she will be off to Paris, London then New York to do her Christmas shipping and partying with friends and family soon.

How nice for her.

[allan michaud]

Hopefully we are finally seeing the end of the Shin era.

With similar fears of violent protests, being deseminated and sensatinalized during and after the recent elections here in Cambodia, it would appear they managed the situation far better here. Even more reason to move to Cambodia.

I could not agree more, the basket case that is Thailand is making Hun Sen and the boys look like bastions of democracy.

[Richard Hall]

Suthep has said this many times (almost daily).

... in his own personal crusade for power.

Is HE also willing to stay out of politics forever for the sake of Thailand and her people if the targeted goals - which appear to be absolute utopic - will acutally be achieved or does he rather see himself to take the lead forever? He claims to fight against politicians clinging to power and trying to return the power to the people but hasn't he always be a power thirsty politician himself and hence can not be part of this government of the people?

[catweazle]

RIP to the victims and thank you so much to everyone involved for ruining yet another tourist season. I am quite sure that tour, hotel and resort owners very much appreciate your efforts in damaging Thailand's already fragile reputation to the breaking point.

Edited December 2, 2013 by catweazle

[ding]

I don't like the fact that I predicted this outcome several weeks ago, as I always felt that the situation would become so dire that YL would have no option but to resign and call for new elections. In any other democracy in the world this would have happened weeks ago, as there is no point in trying to hold on to power when it is clear that a huge proportion of the population is against you.

Fair point. But where are you getting these figures? I've only seen protest numbers in the tens of thousands, versus the 15,744,190 people who voted her in. I don't think there's a reasonable democracy in the world that would throw out an elected leader on those grounds.

Firstly, given that the population of Thailand currently stands at 69.5 million, a vote of almost 15.75 million represents less than 23% support, which is hardly a majority. That indicates that a huge proportion of the population did not vote for her, so there is little need for me to further expand on my earlier statement.

Secondly, setting that issue aside, what is of greater importance is that what happened two years ago is of little relevance to the political stage here in Thailand today.

There have been countless examples of ill-considered policies during that two-year period that were clearly aimed at lining people's pockets before even considering the needs of the people, along with many broken promises that have even alienated some of their most hard-line supporters (e.g., the opposition to the Amnesty Bill amongst hard-line Red Shirts)

Add to this the FACT that many of these votes were bought - and please don't anyone try to tell me that there is no evidence of this, because Khun T is so bloody vein that he had himself videoed handing out the cash back in 2010 - some proportion of these people are now going to realise that their THB 500 or THB 1,000 has actually cost them a lot more out of their own pockets.

There are those in the PTP who have gone very quite, and indeed, they have probably gone somewhere else; for example, we have heard nothing from Jatuporn since Friday. As far as I'm concerned, that should be down to the fact that he is in jail for breaching his bail conditions, but I suspect that that is not the case, and that he is now on the run.

This is the beginning of the end, and I only hope that she has an ounce of dignity left in her that will allow her to recognise this and dissolve Parliament to end this period of strife. If she doesn't, things are going to get pretty bad, and this time around, the police will find that they cannot stand back and watch, because they are now facing the opposing team...and we will see if they have the balls for it ... !!

Good points again, and a sound rebuttal even if 44%. I wonder if she has it in her to go quietly. In a recent interview about another situation, I found this quote;

"Power does not say 'thank you for dismantling us,' then walking quietly away."

IPG

Edited December 2, 2013 by ding

[DocN]

I don't like the fact that I predicted this outcome several weeks ago, as I always felt that the situation would become so dire that YL would have no option but to resign and call for new elections. In any other democracy in the world this would have happened weeks ago, as there is no point in trying to hold on to power when it is clear that a huge proportion of the population is against you.

Fair point. But where are you getting these figures? I've only seen protest numbers in the tens of thousands, versus the 15,744,190 people who voted her in. I don't think there's a reasonable democracy in the world that would throw out an elected leader on those grounds.

Firstly, given that the population of Thailand currently stands at 69.5 million, a vote of almost 15.75 million represents less than 23% support, which is hardly a majority. That indicates that a huge proportion of the population did not vote for her, so there is little need for me to further expand on my earlier statement. Sorry, but that indicates, that you are counting infants and babies and children! Of all the population that was actually allowed to vote, PTP scored 43% (not exactly sure about that...and too lazy to google it right now), which made them the party with the majority of the votes. And it doesn't really make sense, to say "If they got 43, that means that 57% were against them!", because that also is not true. It means that many were against PTP...but some were just not for them...which is a difference. Coalition and all that!

Secondly, setting that issue aside, what is of greater importance is that what happened two years ago is of little relevance to the political stage here in Thailand today.

There have been countless examples of ill-considered policies during that two-year period that were clearly aimed at lining people's pockets before even considering the needs of the people, along with many broken promises that have even alienated some of their most hard-line supporters (e.g., the opposition to the Amnesty Bill amongst hard-line Red Shirts) Which is absolutely true...but also true of every ruling party before and - I guess- to come...

Add to this the FACT that many of these votes were bought - and please don't anyone try to tell me that there is no evidence of this, because Khun T is so bloody vein that he had himself videoed handing out the cash back in 2010 - some proportion of these people are now going to realise that their THB 500 or THB 1,000 has actually cost them a lot more out of their own pockets. Which is also something that has been practizes by all parties more or less alike. My former GF was offered 1.000 Baht by a democrat ...and 1.500 by a PTP- member.

There are those in the PTP who have gone very quite, and indeed, they have probably gone somewhere else; for example, we have heard nothing from Jatuporn since Friday. As far as I'm concerned, that should be down to the fact that he is in jail for breaching his bail conditions, but I suspect that that is not the case, and that he is now on the run.

This is the beginning of the end, and I only hope that she has an ounce of dignity left in her that will allow her to recognise this and dissolve Parliament to end this period of strife. If she doesn't, things are going to get pretty bad, and this time around, the police will find that they cannot stand back and watch, because they are now facing the opposing team...and we will see if they have the balls for it ... !!

I agree, she should call it a day- but not to hand power over to some obscure "government of the people" by Suthep, of Suthep and for Suthep.

I even agree on a caretaker government, but only under the condition of an election in one odd years, where it is "one man- one vote".

[machineisbored]

The "chemically treated water" mentioned in the article is "just" water with a purple dye.

Most water cannons have a tank built in that can put such a dye into the water at a touch of a button. The dye marks the protesters' clothes so the authorities can identify them easily later (in theory).

It's not technically a chemical weapon, but the dye is apparently toxic, and can cause rashes and possibly even skin cancer.

[JRSoul]

problem with an election is that Yingluck would be re elected. They have the money to pay for the votes needed. I think most people would like the whole Shinawatra clan out of Thailand for good

Then those 'most people' who've sat idly by whilst corruption and lack of law enforcement have been allowed to proliferate unheeded for decades deserve everything they bloody well get.

My girls are just and almost able to vote - do they deserve this bloody lot? They are both keen to take their whistles to BKK but their mother and I are in rare political agreement that this was not a good idea.

BTW I learned long ago that it is worth a little pain to remove a parasite from your body. Allowing leeches to bloat and drop off won't work - the Shinawatra type are insatiable.

[Jasun]

Suthep reminds of one of those people screaming about the superiority of Betamax. In the end, it made little difference as its competitor had what matters - the numbers.

[catweazle]

This might shed a little light about the motivations behind "the great people who fight for democracy and power to the people?" ... is it truly "to the people", or is it "to one single man" who lost his rank due to corruption and other "foggy" activities...

Suthep Thaugsuban (Thai: สุเทพ เทือกสุบรรณ; RTGS: Suthep Thueaksuban, [sù.tʰêːp tʰɯ̂ːak.sù.ban]) (born 7 July 1949, Tha Sathon, Phunphin District, Surat Thani Province) is a Thai politician, and Member of Parliament for Surat Thani province. Until 2011, he was secretary-general of the Democrat Party and deputy prime minister under Abhisit Vejjajiva.

1995 to present corruption scandal

As part of the Sor Por Kor 4-01 (สปก.4-01) land reform scheme, Suthep gave title deeds to 592 plots of land in Khao Sam Liam, Kamala and Nakkerd hills of Phuket province to 489 farmers. It was later found that members of 11 wealthy families in Phuket were among the recipients. Suthep addressed a huge crowd in his Surat Thani constituency a month before a no-confidence debate and called on his supporters to march on Bangkok in the hundreds of thousands to defend his reputation.^[2] The scandal led Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai of the Democrat Party to dissolve the House of Representatives in July 1995 in order to avoid the no-confidence debate.^[3] In subsequent elections, the Chart Thai party won a majority, leading to the downfall of Chuan Leekpai's Democrat Party-led government.

2009 disqualification as MP

In 2009, Suthep was accused of violating the Constitution of Thailand by holding equity in a media firm that had received concessions from the government. Under the 1997 Constitution of Thailand, which Suthep had supported, Members of Parliament are banned from holding stakes in companies which have received government concessions. In July 2009, the Election Commission announced that it would seek a ruling by the Constitutional Court to disqualify Suthep and 12 other Democrat MPs for having allegedly violated the charter. Suthep held a press conference a day later, announcing his decision to resign from Parliament. Suthep's resignation as an MP did not affect his status as Deputy Prime Minister and as a Cabinet member. If his case had been submitted to the Constitution Court, he would have been suspended from duty as Deputy Prime Minister. He insisted that his resignation was not a proof that he had done something wrong but that he was worried about status as Deputy Prime Minister.^[4]

2011 elections

In the general election on 3 July 2011, the Democrats were defeated. Suthep stepped down as the party's secretary-general immediately. When the government of successful Pheu Thai Party-leader Yingluck Shinawatra took office on 9 August, his term as deputy prime minister ended.

Edited December 2, 2013 by catweazle

[ratcatcher]

the 60 or so millions of voters

What 60 or so millions of voters? There are nowhere near that number of registered voters in Thailand.

For a little enlightenment.

.

http://www.idea.int/vt/countryview.cfm?CountryCode=TH

[SPIKECM]

problem with an election is that Yingluck would be re elected. They have the money to pay for the votes needed. I think most people would like the whole Shinawatra clan out of Thailand for good

so logically then, the "people" don't want PT, but the'll vote for them as they are paid? Vote buying is a part of Thai politics and always has been. Your problem with not getting what you want to see is the demographics of Thailand... in any democracy, Thailand from now on will always be against the yellows....it is what Suthep and co. cannot handle....a "people's council"??? .....how can this man be taken seriously....the BBC .....unbelievably biased reporting.

Edited December 2, 2013 by SPIKECM

[steveltx]

Firstly, given that the population of Thailand currently stands at 69.5 million, a vote of almost 15.75 million represents less than 23% support, which is hardly a majority. That indicates that a huge proportion of the population did not vote for her, so there is little need for me to further expand on my earlier statement.

Did you really think before you posted this crap . 15.75 million are not all voting age are they? I am sure there are some babies in Thailand or are you saying all the under 18 people in Thailand are yellow shirt supporters?

15.75 million is a massive amount of people who voted for this government. Be better if you posted how many voted for both parties to give a balanced view.

This is a government elected by the majority of its people and if as you say the majority now wants them out , wait for the next election and vote, easy , and both sides pay their supporters

[yourauntbob]

I don't like the fact that I predicted this outcome several weeks ago, as I always felt that the situation would become so dire that YL would have no option but to resign and call for new elections. In any other democracy in the world this would have happened weeks ago, as there is no point in trying to hold on to power when it is clear that a huge proportion of the population is against you.

Unfortunately, this is not a democracy at all, it is an autocracy created by a fugitive criminal who did not have the guts to return to his home country and 'face the music', but instead, felt that he could run the country from afar. Sitting in comfort in Dubai he will no doubt be telling his sister and his other well-paid employees to hang in there because victory is in sight. Sadly, he couldn't be further from the truth...!

What we currently have is a last ditch heavy-handed attempt to use the police to "appease" the crowd, but there is no appeasing this crowd. This government has to fall in order to end this, and the police have to withdraw before we start to see real civil war.

As I've said before, these people are not being paid to be there, they are there because they are passionate about their demand to see real democracy in this country. If TS and YL cannot see this, then they will go down in history as being responsible for the destruction of a once beautiful country.

what? did you say the same thing when the reds (who do out number the yellows) were protesting?

this country needs to learn to not throw out the government every year. its not good for business, the country, or the people. if Thai's keep throwing out any government that doesnt garner 60% of the population, there would never be a government. how many democracies do you know that there is no opposition with a large portion of the populous?

make sure the amnesty bill is dead, then go home and prepare for the next election coming in a couple years.

[belg]

maybe they should do something new in this counry

ONLY PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY PAY TAXES CAN VOTE

so all those poor farmers could no be bought with 500 baht to vote for mr. T