Thai Army chief Prayuth behind PM-Suthep talks

[Prbkk]

Prayuth was pleading with Police and protesters to stop what they were doing? How extraordinary. The Police are trying to defend public property from an unruly mob trying to overthrow a democratically elected government and the Army asks THEM to stop? I would have thought a more logical and appropriate focus would have been pressure on the protesters to stop. It is clear that Suthep has taken comfort from these discussions and comments ( as reflected in his speech/rant last night) and fully intends to inflict his anarchy on the rest of the country.

The speech was very Nuremberg, 1930s. A thug and a fascist.

Unfortunately the current government don't act very democratically, do they? Think - acting illegally, refusing to respect the law, acting above the law, cheating parliamentary procedures, lying, getting caught lying and refusing to tell the truth, refusing to answer questions, refusing to divulge meaningful statistics etc

Interesting comparison of Suthep's speech last night to those made at Nuremberg during the 1930's. Perhaps you can post the link(s) to the particular speech(s) you think are comparable so we can read and judge for ourselves.

You can see it on bluesky tv...they are repeating it frequently. The whole thing reminded me of Nuremberg , including the setting of the rally. A tacky version of triumph of the will. I agree that this administration is not faultless. I disagree with most of their economic policies. But I don't believe handing over to a corrupt, rotten-to-the-core, self-serving fascist is the answer either

[siampolee]

Prbkk post # 33

You can see it on bluesky tv...they are repeating it frequently. The whole thing reminded me of Nuremberg , including the setting of the rally. A tacky version of triumph of the will. I agree that this administration is not faultless. I disagree with most of their economic policies. But I don't believe handing over to a corrupt, rotten-to-the-core, self-serving fascist is the answer either

It does seem as if you are in something of a dream world.

You state that you do not admire many facets of this current puppet governments policies and actions, yet you are supporting them to the hilt. You quote the ''Nuremberg Defence,'' goodness only knows why concerning Suthep and his comments and thus one must presume his followers too. Possibly you paving the way for those comments to be used by Jutuporn and the rest of his ilk in their pleas when they have their day in court? .

Now let 's ask, ''can you with your infinite wisdom and depth of understanding regarding the mindset of those involved in the current disturbances offer a solution to the current matter that will lead to a peaceful amiable conclusion to these protest ?''

Casting my mind back to the character portrayed in your avatar he was somewhat rabid and misguided in his thinking.

Perchance that you mimicking those qualities or are you but a failed comedian?

[Prbkk]

That would be an ecumenical matter?

Well, I would favour a national unity government with neither Yingluck or Abhisit as PM...almost impossible to achieve in the current climate but possibly brokered through 'other forces'. It would be a very difficult thing to achieve...as everyone agrees, we have 3 (possibly 4) countries in one, with conflicting and competing demands. Getting the thugs off the streets is a start. One would hope that some negotiation about the formation of a transitional govt ( reflecting the voting from the last election) is underway, or will be soon

Prbkk post # 33

You can see it on bluesky tv...they are repeating it frequently. The whole thing reminded me of Nuremberg , including the setting of the rally. A tacky version of triumph of the will. I agree that this administration is not faultless. I disagree with most of their economic policies. But I don't believe handing over to a corrupt, rotten-to-the-core, self-serving fascist is the answer either

It does seem as if you are in something of a dream world.

You state that you do not admire many facets of this current puppet governments policies and actions, yet you are supporting them to the hilt. You quote the ''Nuremberg Defence,'' goodness only knows why concerning Suthep and his comments and thus one must presume his followers too. Possibly you paving the way for those comments to be used by Jutuporn and the rest of his ilk in their pleas when they have their day in court? .

Now let 's ask, ''can you with your infinite wisdom and depth of understanding regarding the mindset of those involved in the current disturbances offer a solution to the current matter that will lead to a peaceful amiable conclusion to these protest ?''

Casting my mind back to the character portrayed in your avatar he was somewhat rabid and misguided in his thinking.

Perchance that you mimicking those qualities or are you but a failed comedian?

[whybother]

Does Suthep think he is the most important person in Thailand. My god what an egotistical maniac. Allow the elected party to run th country. That is what DEMOCRACY means. Really do Sutheps supporters believe he is an honest well meaning person. Supporters of Hitler, Sudam Hussain and many others thought likewise

Supporters of Thaksin believe that too.

[newcomer71]

Prayuth was pleading with Police and protesters to stop what they were doing? How extraordinary. The Police are trying to defend public property from an unruly mob trying to overthrow a democratically elected government and the Army asks THEM to stop? I would have thought a more logical and appropriate focus would have been pressure on the protesters to stop. It is clear that Suthep has taken comfort from these discussions and comments ( as reflected in his speech/rant last night) and fully intends to inflict his anarchy on the rest of the country.

The speech was very Nuremberg, 1930s. A thug and a fascist.

another brainwashed lemming - you are a fine example of why Thailand Democracy is none existent or none functional - Suthep has made his intentions very clear and so far they are transparent and honourable - if this is his attempt at some sort of power struggle then it will fail - so far that does not seem to be the case - could he be the man that saves Thailand from it's continuous political failure - history doesn't lie - radical change is needed and this could be the beginning

You will learn very soon what PTP has been up too - or perhaps you know already - perhaps you've been involved - have you bought your ticket yet

It's far too hard to understand that there is someone that doesn't agree with Shin clan AND Democrats (Suthep too if you will say he's not a Democrat anymore?

I am one of them, but I still am be pointed to be a Red shirt, on any post I write again Suthep. while I haven't been attacked ONCE when I posted against YL...

Have your thoughts...

[Xonax]

It's interesting that red shirts never follow any news on yellow shirts and vice versus. This would help both sides understand each others grievances. I see red shirts only watching the provocative red shirt rallies and yellow shirts only the yellow shirt side of the story. Both sides have points. Some good points, some that come from akusala thoughts (unwholesome thoughts) The only way out is to have a dialogue. The way out is not a non-elected Government, that is a joke. It should either be an agreed upon business government (which would take both factions in government to work together as equal partners) or new elections. I see the latter coming up with an interim government to be installed by the military as neither side will budge.... Sad but true. And yes, on the 5th it will be over. For a day.

The RED and YELLOW shirt propaganda radio and tv programs should be banned, as all they do is to brainwash the people! Every radio and tv station should be forced to, in a neutral way, to tell both sides of the story.

[bigbamboo]

Well done to that man.Khun General Prayuth. About the only group that is showing any level of responsibility in the whole circus. The thought of The Army on take over is gaining appeal every day.

I seem to remember that after the Army took control in 2006 there was remarkably few complaints. In fact the people's mood was happy with tourists chatting with soldiers, kids playing on the tanks..... and the atmosphere was more one of calm and relief rather than fear or panic.

Of course it wasn't democracy but that had become a fading memory anyway. More like no politicians, no problem!

[siampolee]

Prbkk post # 35

That would be an ecumenical matter?

Well, I would favour a national unity government with neither Yingluck or Abhisit as PM...almost impossible to achieve in the current climate but possibly brokered through 'other forces'. It would be a very difficult thing to achieve...as everyone agrees, we have 3 (possibly 4) countries in one, with conflicting and competing demands. Getting the thugs off the streets is a start. One would hope that some negotiation about the formation of a transitional govt ( reflecting the voting from the last election) is underway, or will be soon

Indeed my respect for you has improved you had the decency to reply and set out a sensible solution much along the lines that I think should be taken. There are some decent politicians of all political persuasions here and if they could come together progress would be made. I am of the opinion that whether we like it or not there would be initially some military involvement, but at least it would be overt as opposed to covert.

Removing the thugs from the street, that action goes across the board irrespective of their political or monetary allegiances

Lord knows just how many vested interest groups are really involved in these demonstrations and their actual aims. It's about as enigmatic as the situation with the French, Italian and Greek resistance movements in W.W.2.

Concerning the election procedure.

I would advocate a three week campaign period then balloting day, hopefully that time frame would indeed cripple the cash vote buying scenario. Said elections should be monitored by a team of independent monitors any irregularities to be dealt with quickly, those involved and found guilty of corrupt practices must barred from politics until they shuffle of off this mortal coil.

Personally I would wish to see an election within six months from the date of the commencement of the process you propose. No changing of party membership, independent candidates allowed and no barrier to standing as a parliamentary candidate due to the lack of a degree or any sort of educational achievement.

Time alone will tell if such a scenario is ever likely to happen though.

[smedly]

there is absolutely no point in having an election until the whole system is reformed

Is it not obvious that the democratic structures in This country are flawed, voting another party into government without the reforms will just leave us right back here again in a couple of years

Why don't any of you get it into your thick heads that the system is broken allowing the sitting government to abuse power and steal from the people at will - it needs to stop

Democracy/winning an election is not the key to ultimate power to do as you please - certain groups in Thailand seem to think it is, this mindset needs to change, strong checks/laws.rules need to be drawn up and stricter rules regarding constitution amendments need to be put in place

Suthep is right if his intentions are what he says they are - reform the whole system so this shit can never happen again

[jackrich]

If Suthep really wants reforms, why did he and Abhisit not push for them when they were in power until 2 years ago?

[newcomer71]

If Suthep really wants reforms, why did he and Abhisit not push for them when they were in power until 2 years ago?

I pointed this out too in another thread, of course I did not get any reply.

YL is a puppet, only wants to take advantage of her position for her family business and for her bro cronies.

Abhisit have been a great puppet, and with Suthep had taken advantage for their interest during the time they were in charge.

I would not take any of those sides, even under torture.

[Briggsy]

I sense the hand of Prem behind this meeting.

[whybother]

If Suthep really wants reforms, why did he and Abhisit not push for them when they were in power until 2 years ago?

They started by changing how constituent MPs were elected.

[Thai at Heart]

Does Suthep think he is the most important person in Thailand. My god what an egotistical maniac. Allow the elected party to run th country. That is what DEMOCRACY means. Really do Sutheps supporters believe he is an honest well meaning person. Supporters of Hitler, Sudam Hussain and many others thought likewise

Yes he does think he is the most important guy in thailand. Thing is, there are hundreds of men who think the same thing.

[Thai at Heart]

I sense the hand of Prem behind this meeting.

Indeed,, he's never one to not stick his oar in if it means he can get his expected influence on something.

[Prbkk]

A case could be made that Prem is the best PM in Thailand's history. There were challenges in those years but huge progress. Going with anything associated with Suthep is a huge reversal and a leap into the dark.

I sense the hand of Prem behind this meeting.

[smedly]

If Suthep really wants reforms, why did he and Abhisit not push for them when they were in power until 2 years ago?

did they even get a chance

also writing the correct changes into the law and constitution is no easy matter, but one thing is for sure - they have a clearer idea of what is needed after 2.5 years with PTP who did their very best to thwart bypass test and dismantle every check and balance that existed.

In some ways PTP has actually had a positive contribution to the reforms that will come, they highlighted all the weaknesses and shortcomings that need beefed up and changed so that this never happens again

Did I just give some credit to PTP wow

I just hope that the truth comes out and some of them go to jail for the theft of billions of tax payers money

[jdinasia]

very interesting the army stepping in to help the protesters.(medics)..could there be something more in that..i hope so...

There's a lot more to it. The police couldn't or wouldn't evacuate the students or the protesters, and did you notice how quickly Jutaporn called an end to the rally and sent his people home after the incidents. That just isn't his style.

There's always a lot more to it. Either the students didn't really need rescuing and the move was just to make the army look good or the snipers must have a good relationship with the army, given that soldiers evacuated students completely unarmed. The UDD did the right thing in calling off the rally imo.

Or or or ....

I think the most plausible answer is that no relationship existed between the snipers and the army and that they simply would not take the risk of firing on the army.

On the behalf of the students, they had been told to stay indoors nd their perception of the risk means that they really did need rescuing.

I thought Thida actually called off the rally, but I agree it was good that it was called off.

Say what you will about how it started. The people of BKK will always remember this as yet another example of redshirt violence that resulted in deaths.

edit typo food/good

Edited December 3, 2013 by jdinasia

[ppmacready]

All the Thai Governments are corrupt, but-

The Elite right wing can not accept democracy as it erodes the power they have held for century's over the uneducated poor.

Its a shame whilst studying in the west they didn't learn from history that you can't hold a people down forever!

[Thai at Heart]

All the Thai Governments are corrupt, but-

The Elite right wing can not accept democracy as it erodes the power they have held for century's over the uneducated poor.

Its a shame whilst studying in the west they didn't learn from history that you can't hold a people down forever!

This is abhisits problem. All the education under the sun, and by the time it is applied to the thai situation, not worth anything.

[millwall_fan]

Many of you who presumably support democracy in your own countries, seem to condone denying it to the Thai people. The democratic system works just fine. If electoral bribery makes as much difference as some of you allege, why don't the fabulously rich who support the opposition simply pay voters more than PT who largely rely in one mans billions? The reason is that although money has been paid by political parties to voters for generations, it no longer affects the way people vote to any significant extent. The policies that Thaksin delivered and promises to continue delivering are attractive in the majority of parliamentary seats, where the masses have been downtrodden for years and now see themselves enjoying real power for the first time.

The dynasties that are bankrolling Suthep are simply miffed because the Shinawatra's sidelined them and brought in their own henchmen. This battle is being waged for power and influence between the Shinawatra family who pay lip service to the poor and have in fact delivered enough to the poor to gain their support and the other ruling families who have lost some of their influence and want it back at any cost.

The army are keen to avoid a coup because their foot soldiers come largely from the Isaan and North and they can't rely on their loyalty. In addition Prayuth is a pragmatist and doesn't want a coup because he remembers the way the last army appointed 'government of the intelligent' fouled things up.

[smedly]

Many of you who presumably support democracy in your own countries, seem to condone denying it to the Thai people. The democratic system works just fine. If electoral bribery makes as much difference as some of you allege, why don't the fabulously rich who support the opposition simply pay voters more than PT who largely rely in one mans billions? The reason is that although money has been paid by political parties to voters for generations, it no longer affects the way people vote to any significant extent. The policies that Thaksin delivered and promises to continue delivering are attractive in the majority of parliamentary seats, where the masses have been downtrodden for years and now see themselves enjoying real power for the first time.

The dynasties that are bankrolling Suthep are simply miffed because the Shinawatra's sidelined them and brought in their own henchmen. This battle is being waged for power and influence between the Shinawatra family who pay lip service to the poor and have in fact delivered enough to the poor to gain their support and the other ruling families who have lost some of their influence and want it back at any cost.

The army are keen to avoid a coup because their foot soldiers come largely from the Isaan and North and they can't rely on their loyalty. In addition Prayuth is a pragmatist and doesn't want a coup because he remembers the way the last army appointed 'government of the intelligent' fouled things up.

nothing wrong with your post to an extent but what you fail to understand is that the version of democracy that keeps failing in Thailand is far from what we have in the west.

They don't need huge changes to make it work just some small corrections to plug the gaps that PTP tried to exploit, the idea is making sure that a presiding government works within a framework and abides by the laws within that framework, not only did PTP break the rules but they also tried to demolish the framework to allow them absolute power to do as they pleased, this could never happen in the west as the rules are very clear and any gaps have been firmly shut over the years.

I am honestly hoping that in a years time Thailand has the makings of a solid framework that will allow them to join the worlds democracy club, it might be helpful for them to seek out expert international assistance to ensure that they do in fact get it right this time

[h90]

Many of you who presumably support democracy in your own countries, seem to condone denying it to the Thai people. The democratic system works just fine. If electoral bribery makes as much difference as some of you allege, why don't the fabulously rich who support the opposition simply pay voters more than PT who largely rely in one mans billions? The reason is that although money has been paid by political parties to voters for generations, it no longer affects the way people vote to any significant extent. The policies that Thaksin delivered and promises to continue delivering are attractive in the majority of parliamentary seats, where the masses have been downtrodden for years and now see themselves enjoying real power for the first time.

The dynasties that are bankrolling Suthep are simply miffed because the Shinawatra's sidelined them and brought in their own henchmen. This battle is being waged for power and influence between the Shinawatra family who pay lip service to the poor and have in fact delivered enough to the poor to gain their support and the other ruling families who have lost some of their influence and want it back at any cost.

The army are keen to avoid a coup because their foot soldiers come largely from the Isaan and North and they can't rely on their loyalty. In addition Prayuth is a pragmatist and doesn't want a coup because he remembers the way the last army appointed 'government of the intelligent' fouled things up.

1 ) and why do you think is vote buying in USA, France, Germany, Canada, etc forbidden?

2 ) The Democrats don't pay more because they are a relative poor party?

3 ) Why would Thaksin pay billions if vote buying doesn't make a difference?

4 ) Democracy is a bit more than elections. There are checks and balances. There is separation of power. There is the constitution which can't be changed in some ways, or would you say it is democratic if Merkel would change the constitution in a way that only every 20 years elections are needed? Or both East Germany and North Korea are/were democracies, just the constitution is changed in a way that you can only vote for the right leader. That attempt to change the constitution triggered the protests, to PROTECT the democracy by oust a government that want to destroy it (and the leader openly said it "Democracy is not my goal" Thaksin Shinawatra)

[Briggsy]

Don't forget that vote buying is not from Thaksin directly to the poor. You must go through the regional factions, then they go to provincial level, then they go to local 'canvassers', usually village headman or or bor tor. Local people take the cash from local leaders who they know and vote accordingly.

You don't buy the voter, you need to buy the whole local political hierarchy who then buys the voter. These regional factions remain behind Thaksin.

If Suthep wants to succeed, he will have to split one or two of these factions away from Thaksin and his money. This is what Suthep is trying to achieve.

[Emptyset]

Many of you who presumably support democracy in your own countries, seem to condone denying it to the Thai people. The democratic system works just fine. If electoral bribery makes as much difference as some of you allege, why don't the fabulously rich who support the opposition simply pay voters more than PT who largely rely in one mans billions? The reason is that although money has been paid by political parties to voters for generations, it no longer affects the way people vote to any significant extent. The policies that Thaksin delivered and promises to continue delivering are attractive in the majority of parliamentary seats, where the masses have been downtrodden for years and now see themselves enjoying real power for the first time.

The dynasties that are bankrolling Suthep are simply miffed because the Shinawatra's sidelined them and brought in their own henchmen. This battle is being waged for power and influence between the Shinawatra family who pay lip service to the poor and have in fact delivered enough to the poor to gain their support and the other ruling families who have lost some of their influence and want it back at any cost.

The army are keen to avoid a coup because their foot soldiers come largely from the Isaan and North and they can't rely on their loyalty. In addition Prayuth is a pragmatist and doesn't want a coup because he remembers the way the last army appointed 'government of the intelligent' fouled things up.

1 ) and why do you think is vote buying in USA, France, Germany, Canada, etc forbidden?

2 ) The Democrats don't pay more because they are a relative poor party?

3 ) Why would Thaksin pay billions if vote buying doesn't make a difference?

4 ) Democracy is a bit more than elections. There are checks and balances. There is separation of power. There is the constitution which can't be changed in some ways, or would you say it is democratic if Merkel would change the constitution in a way that only every 20 years elections are needed? Or both East Germany and North Korea are/were democracies, just the constitution is changed in a way that you can only vote for the right leader. That attempt to change the constitution triggered the protests, to PROTECT the democracy by oust a government that want to destroy it (and the leader openly said it "Democracy is not my goal" Thaksin Shinawatra)

It's not unlikely that the Democrats have got more money than PT and I doubt Thaksin pays 'billions'. If you think otherwise please substantiate this. I agree that democracy is more than elections, but the fact that people think that government may have been undemocratic in some respects doesn't mean that they are justified in using any means possible to install an unelected council. What do those pushing for that outcome care about democracy anyway? I thought it was the amnesty that triggered the protests, not the attempt to change the constitution.