Bangkok: Anti-government protesters declare victory

[Dualeck]

Have you seen the photos of Yingluck in Hua Hin with the top army commanders? They will NEVER overthrow her. Those army commanders looked like dogs in heat with Yingluck around. Seriously, look at the photos. She has them all wrapped around her fingers.

Do you have a link to the pictures?

[philw]

Funny how this thread has progressed since earlier in the day when people thought that the protesters entering government house compound meant that Yingluck has been overthrown. It does NOT.

The protesters were allowed in, they loddy dooded around the front lawn for an hour and they then left, the military locking the gates after they left. It appears that Government House is being turned over to the military, so the protesters can forget about that one. I'm not sure about Police HQ, but at this point it appears the protesters are back at Democracy monument and nothing has changed.

Despite TomTao's version of reality, Yingluck is not a dictator, she cannot resign and appoint a 'people's council'. The most she can do is resign and call fresh elections. She can decide she no longer wants to be PM but the voters will decide that Phua Thai has another majority, this stunt by the yellow shirts will probably result in a bigger Phua Thai majority, if anything. Yingluck is the most conciliatory of the Phua Thai MPs, I mean do we really want her replaced by some brash man? That'll just make the situation worse. Lets not forget that when Yingluck came into power 2 years ago she stated that bringing her brother home from exile "was not a priority." When the amnesty bill created protests she was the killed it by sending it to the Senate. Who do you think has more respect among the military generals, Yingluck or that crackpot Suthep. SUthep is not going to intimidate the military into removing Yingluck in a coup.

My wife is over the moon at the moment, jumping up and down saying "we won, we won". I'm a bit more reserved, I am more concerned about what happens next. Will the people of Thailand truly have a voice in the next government to be formed, or will votes be purchassed and the needs of the people ignored again? I am concerened about Thailand's future, I do hope this protest will see Thailand headed toward democracy rather than autocracy dressed up as democracy, for those who say that a democratically elected government has been ousted, I'm sorry, but in my view any goverment which is voted in on the back of vote buying rather than electionering was not democratically elected.

PK dead right.

[PeterSmiles]

My take on this is that it is just a calm before the storm, because if they go for the crackdown now there is no guarantee that everything will be solved by the fifth of this month.

So now even the streets gonna be cleaned up by the protesters for the Kings birthday, so on that day it will look like nothing happened. Thais are good at that you know.

With this tactic they hope Suthep let down his guard, and what gonna happen on the sixth nobody can tell yet, but it doesn't look good in my opinion.

[sms747]

Please get facts before open mouth, Yinluck WASN'T voted into office by the Thai people, she was placed there by a convicted criminal and fugitive from justice.

But that's ok you're excused as your handle say's it all, lost in Surin

What an utter lie she achieved a large mandate from the Thai people. Her brother did also and was only convicted of a minor 'crime' of conflict of interest in his absence. Even his enemies who illegally replaced him could not do any better than that, He has never been convicted of the corruption people claim he is responsible for.

[DocN]

Everybody who thinks a) this is over and b ) Suthep has won anything, should get his/her head checked!

[Muhendis]

That's somehow too easy...something is wrong. Things that are too easy and simple usually aren't true.

Yes. Too easy by far. To many it looks like the government may have lost the support of the police. That would be a substantial victory for the protesters. Many would then give up and go home. However it looks suspiciously like a bluff to me. The government is still in control.

Hopefully the final outcome, whatever and whenever that may be, will benefit me in some degree. As a non-voting farang I would hope for a more farang friendly administration.

Hey. Ho. Only daydreaming.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The question is, what will happen next ?

Will the protesters go home, and everything in the current government will continue as if nothing ever happened, including the lying-cheating and looting the state coffers ?

Or will there be a house dissolution and new elections?

I think those are the important, and still unanswered, questions.

Marching on and peacefully and temporarily "seizing" various government buildings doesn't do much of anything to directly advance the protesters' main agenda of ridding Thailand of the Thaksin government.

On the other hand, by giving in on the government facilities today, the Thaksin government publicly appears to be peacemakers and avoids worsening things on the eve of the King's birthday -- and yet, they remain fully in charge and in control of the government, as much as they ever have been.

Also, they avoid at least for now going down the same road that ended up scuttling the Democratic government in the wake of the 2010 Red Riots.

Perhaps there are some other deals that have been made behind the scenes on broader issues. But absent those, this may have been a pretty smart move on the part of a normally pretty clueless government.

[englishoak]

Protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, a former deputy premier, said the fight to unseat the government was not over.

"It's a partial victory but it's not final because the Thaksin regime is still in place. You cannot go back home yet. We have to continue our struggle," he told his supporters.

Hehe Suthep knows hes been completely out manoeuvred and sounds just a tad desperate methinks, you can bet they will all go home, there is no way the next few days will be disrespected, not a chance.

Nothing has been "won" in the slightest by these protesters and all praise for handling the situation given to the current PM government and police. Congratulations for showing the rest of the world how to disarm and disperse a clearly increasingly violent situation, I can think of no other country that would be able to do this overnight.

Say what you will but today has shown violence can be overcome with merely flowers and a hug... we need more of this and less of the smack talk.

Thailand lol gotta love it, same same but sometimes a bit different.

[gerry1011]

Declare victory after the government opened the doors of the government house and invited the protesters in?

Sure

It is just a trick to have everything calm down... till the 6th.

After that Suthep will start to bark again, even louder.

In the meantime, Yingluck made one more very smart move.

Suthep may be claiming "victory", but he must be still boiling inside.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Ulic]

Sounds like George W Bush declaring victory.

[icare999]

My wife is over the moon at the moment, jumping up and down saying "we won, we won". I'm a bit more reserved, I am more concerned about what happens next. Will the people of Thailand truly have a voice in the next government to be formed, or will votes be purchassed and the needs of the people ignored again? I am concerened about Thailand's future, I do hope this protest will see Thailand headed toward democracy rather than autocracy dressed up as democracy, for those who say that a democratically elected government has been ousted, I'm sorry, but in my view any goverment which is voted in on the back of vote buying rather than electionering was not democratically elected.

So the anti-govt protesters actually believe the govt has been overthrown? I'd laugh but just chatting on gmail with a friend at the moment and he's just spoken to his anti-govt friend who's at the protest and, of course, they're all hugging each other, laughing and celebrating. So my friend asks him 'so it's over?' and this guy says 'keep watching'. Which could mean anything. I suppose there's a very slim chance that this is actually some sort of coup or ousting. After all, the military are looking after govt house now. But, of course, the government wouldn't give up this easily if that was the case...

of course its not over but Suphet has IMO won a victory not the war and it is a war al ing drawn out one between Taksin and those who are happy with him and those against and loathe him Taksin has made a technical retreat for now .

It will not be over until Taksin is totally defeated or he wins total control over everything here. Their is and never has been any other way. All this BS about it being a democracy and people voted is irrelivent.

Now if Taksin decided to withdraw to private life and stay out of it as well as his family then it will be over they could have an election without his interference and money buying it and IMO most of people would accept outcome even those opposed to this government but Taksin will not give up.

All this for one mans megalomaniac ego.

[philw]

Protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, a former deputy premier, said the fight to unseat the government was not over.

"It's a partial victory but it's not final because the Thaksin regime is still in place. You cannot go back home yet. We have to continue our struggle," he told his supporters.

Hehe Suthep knows hes been completely out manoeuvred and sounds just a tad desperate methinks, you can bet they will all go home, there is no way the next few days will be disrespected, not a chance.

Nothing has been "won" in the slightest by these protesters and all praise for handling the situation given to the current PM government and police. Congratulations for showing the rest of the world how to disarm and disperse a clearly increasingly violent situation, I can think of no other country that would be able to do this overnight.

Say what you will but today has shown violence can be overcome with merely flowers and a hug... we need more of this and less of the smack talk.

Thailand lol gotta love it, same same but sometimes a bit different.

Nice summation and additionally, Suthep has managed to seriously discredit himself, his associates and the party he used to represent.

Arrested on monday and not bailed is a distinct possibility.

[smileydude]

It is not so simple and the leaders of both sides know that. Paving the way for back door negotiations? For the protest masses could it be a psychological boost or pat on the back? Who knows. We only see what they want us to see. There's always someone negotiating behind closed doors.

I see it as a step in the evolution of thai democracy which is relatively young when compared to western counterparts.

Awkward baby steps which may look non-sensical and unruly to those whose democracies have matured but nevertheless steps forward the thai way as imperfect as humans can be.

Edited December 3, 2013 by smileydude

[icare999]

My wife is over the moon at the moment, jumping up and down saying "we won, we won". I'm a bit more reserved, I am more concerned about what happens next. Will the people of Thailand truly have a voice in the next government to be formed, or will votes be purchassed and the needs of the people ignored again? I am concerened about Thailand's future, I do hope this protest will see Thailand headed toward democracy rather than autocracy dressed up as democracy, for those who say that a democratically elected government has been ousted, I'm sorry, but in my view any goverment which is voted in on the back of vote buying rather than electionering was not democratically elected.

I think she is right. The chances of Oak Shinawatra becoming the next head of state is as likely as the reforming of the original Beatles lineup. Thaksin's amnesty bill and asset return plus compound 7.5% interest likewise. Yingluck, with bloodied hands will be unelectable and reviled by all, lying to rest in history books somewhere between Stalin and Vlad the impaler. My, how things have changed in the past week.

Of course, if victory is only measured by how many telecoms monopolies Suthep can award to himself and family members then no, they didn't win. But it wasn't about Sutheps personal enrichment, it was about bringing recognition of the Shinawatra regime's despicable nepotism, corruption and lack of democratic principles.

He shoots.... He scores!!!

so funny - election will be held - PTP will win

"he shoots - he scores - but it's an own goal"

You mean Taksin not PTP since he totally controls it and none in that party ism ore than a clone. Have you ever in west seen a political party where all its MP's and people agree 100% with their leader. No never but here they do and that in itself proves its not a democracy but a dictatorship. When have you ever seen or heard a PTP politician argue against party line.

At least if theirs a new election the amnesty bill is dead. They could win of course and try to bring it back but I doubt they would. Its not a forgone conclusion that PTP will win outright but if the people want that so be it.

This has happened due the Government PTP only having 1 aim and that is to get their criminal master back. Why not just have a vote simple question do you want taksin to come back yes or no and see what that results in .

If your happy living in a one party Taksin dictatorship just because enough brainwashed or bought votes can be found up to you. Ill say it again Hitler was voted into power so was Mugabwie Saddam and many many evil dictators. After gaining power they all did slowly what Taksin has done back in 2004-06 and again recently and that is get control of all branches judiciary courts media and anything that could questioner oppose them.

Your a total fool if you think its great to have a government clearly state they wont accept court decision, push through an amnesty bill for their master, have members of government who in 2010 were urging people to burn down BKK and rest. But if your happy with that be careful you'll get what you wish for. Im assuming you actually live here with a family.

For me and many others Taksin is a vile evil megalomaniac who threatens to turn our home into a form of Zimbabwie or North Korea and we believe in that totally.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and insult posts directed at other members have been removed.

[DocN]

[icare999]

Flowers??

Reminds me of someone else - "they want bread? give them cake"

Oh well when whoever eventually does get the victory - it will be peaceful for another 3 yrs or so till the next episode !!

you reckon this is not over and i doubt will be peaceful for a few weeks let alone years stupid comment if I may say so and very nieve in my humble opinion

[KOZMO]

Dissolve Parliament, Yingluck steps down, all ok!! All I wanted for Christmas was a big fat COUP!!!!!!!!

[ricku]

"We will stop for the king's birthday. If Yingluck is still here we will fight again."

So,... in fact what they're saying is that its not over yet.

In the absence of Yingluck standing down on or before Dec 6th can we assume that the parade will pick up where it left off?

The 6th is too soon after the birthday party. But maybe next week.

One thing is for sure.. This is not over yet.

[metisdead]

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[rogerdee123]

Yes it's not over. Suthep is the Kamikaze for the opposition. The real negotiations are beyond our vision.

[Scott]

A post with messed up quotes has been deleted. Please be careful to make sure you post is not inside another poster's quote.

[PeterSmiles]

Yes it's not over. Suthep is the Kamikaze for the opposition. The real negotiations are beyond our vision.

From the Thailand live thread

RT@pakhead: It seems the military top brass incl Anupong &Prawit negotiated this truce with Thaksin last night. Boys in green will now mediate a deal.

[icare999]

You mean Taksin not PTP since he totally controls it and none in that party ism ore than a clone. Have you ever in west seen a political party where all its MP's and people agree 100% with their leader. No never but here they do and that in itself proves its not a democracy but a dictatorship. When have you ever seen or heard a PTP politician argue against party line.

That's an extreme statement regarding PTP politics. Is the PTP so different from the other Thai parties other than it just being the biggest one?

At least if theirs a new election the amnesty bill is dead. They could win of course and try to bring it back but I doubt they would. Its not a forgone conclusion that PTP will win outright but if the people want that so be it.

Yingluck killed it by sending it to the senate, don't bother to mention any conciliatory moves on her part.

This has happened due the Government PTP only having 1 aim and that is to get their criminal master back. Why not just have a vote simple question do you want taksin to come back yes or no and see what that results in .

If your happy living in a one party Taksin dictatorship just because enough brainwashed or bought votes can be found up to you. Ill say it again Hitler was voted into power so was Mugabwie Saddam and many many evil dictators. After gaining power they all did slowly what Taksin has done back in 2004-06 and again recently and that is get control of all branches judiciary courts media and anything that could questioner oppose them.

Your a total fool if you think its great to have a government clearly state they wont accept court decision, push through an amnesty bill for their master, have members of government who in 2010 were urging people to burn down BKK and rest. But if your happy with that be careful you'll get what you wish for. Im assuming you actually live here with a family.

The Yingluck administration already denied that accusation about "it won't accept.."

For me and many others Taksin is a vile evil megalomaniac who threatens to turn our home into a form of Zimbabwie or North Korea and we believe in that totally.

IN reply since says to many quotes

the amnesty bill is not dead at all. Its been stopped for a while and can be made law in a few months by a simple 50% vote of MP's without any need to go back to senate. So thats your first point.

Before PTP there were many examples of MP's of several parties not agreeing with their leader and as usual in west some of defecting to other parties. In fact some went over from dens to Taksins lot and back before 2006 vice versa.

Members of this government have repeatedly stated they don't accept ruling of constitutional court regarding amendments to constitution.

If your happy with this lot then up to you I and many are not and we wont be until Taksin and his clan are gone for ever. Its really up to Taksin but he's not going to take complete control without some fight and Suphet at least has slowed the path at moment a bit to a one party Taksin state. Weather he and/or others can stop it totally is to be seen but given recent events I am hopeful that it is possible although not certain.

As I've said for a long time while I love Thailand and have put in 30 years here I made plans long ago if need be for an exit. This was back when Thailand was fast becoming a Taksin state ( before army stopped him) and since then I've moved a lot of our assets out just in case. IF Taksin comes back and wins then IMO well have 5-10 years to get rest ut as best we can slowly before Thailand becomes another victim to a megalomaniac dictator.

[rogerdee123]

Yes it's not over. Suthep is the Kamikaze for the opposition. The real negotiations are beyond our vision.

From the Thailand live thread

RT@pakhead: It seems the military top brass incl Anupong &Prawit negotiated this truce with Thaksin last night. Boys in green will now mediate a deal.

They have to negotiate with Thaksin .... negotiating with anyone else is a waste of time. The deal is going to be done with Thaksin. He gives the orders to the others.

[nong38]

Now go home it was all supposed to be over before the 5th December.

[icare999]

Yes it's not over. Suthep is the Kamikaze for the opposition. The real negotiations are beyond our vision.

From the Thailand live thread

RT@pakhead: It seems the military top brass incl Anupong &Prawit negotiated this truce with Thaksin last night. Boys in green will now mediate a deal.

They have to negotiate with Thaksin .... negotiating with anyone else is a waste of time. The deal is going to be done with Thaksin. He gives the orders to the others.

better be careful when dealing with a snake or scorpion if this has any truth in it that is. A deal with a convicted criminal running country from abroad with a load of clones and cronies here and the Army. What possible deal could there be just magine it.

Taksin - I want all of thialand to make me emporer

Army - how about fuhrer but with us having power

Taksin - not enough

Army - how much do you want

Taksin - I have already bled most of it dry and anyway its power I want

Army - Why not join us as a general

Taksin - now theirs a thought

[penwithcris]

This ongoing dispute has little to do with politics this is very much a class struggle. It sticks in the craw of the so called Thai 'middle class' and the other 'privileged' classes in Thailand that the government has been formed following a democratic process that saw, yet again, the working class return the party of their choice

How can this be allowed to happen cry the minority? What right have our 'servants' to form a government. They should be cleaning our houses, washing our clothes, producing and preparing our food, driving our taxis and doing all the other menial jobs that an elite depend upon

What do these poorly educated people understand of World affairs?

i have spent a lot of time in the company of Bangkokian university students often in the company of my Isaan wife. Despite her being a well educated woman the students do not even acknowledge her presence much less bring her into the conversation and ask for her views

Thailand remains an 'upstairs and 'downstairs' society with the same social pyramid that infected Victorian society

It would be a disaster if the current government resigns. What message will that send out to the electorate? If you are unhappy with the democratically government cause a riot and all your demands will be met

[binjalin]

This ongoing dispute has little to do with politics this is very much a class struggle. It sticks in the craw of the so called Thai 'middle class' and the other 'privileged' classes in Thailand that the government has been formed following a democratic process that saw, yet again, the working class return the party of their choice

How can this be allowed to happen cry the minority? What right have our 'servants' to form a government. They should be cleaning our houses, washing our clothes, producing and preparing our food, driving our taxis and doing all the other menial jobs that an elite depend upon

What do these poorly educated people understand of World affairs?

i have spent a lot of time in the company of Bangkokian university students often in the company of my Isaan wife. Despite her being a well educated woman the students do not even acknowledge her presence much less bring her into the conversation and ask for her views

Thailand remains an 'upstairs and 'downstairs' society with the same social pyramid that infected Victorian society

It would be a disaster if the current government resigns. What message will that send out to the electorate? If you are unhappy with the democratically government cause a riot and all your demands will be met

what an insightful and meaningful post!!! but the 'amart' and the TV forum 'experts' just "dont get it"

elitism has to perish... eventually

[spectrumisgreen]

Doesn't seem to me like any 'deal' has been done other than not to fight like savages and try and kill each other over the King's birthday!!! All that hugging and smiling, saying "We're all Thais", is just a BS temporary 'climbdown', a typical face-saving pretence knowing full-well that they're still all carrying the same hatred as always which all and sundry will continue to demonstrate (well the masses will continue to show how they blindly follow their 'leaders' like sheep even to the point of becoming totally crazed!!!), after a bit of a nice - respectful, haha!! - street party!!! Suthep's "We've won but you can't go home yet!" speech pretty much shows both his delusional thinking AND his total contempt for his 'own' people (obviously doesn't consider them fellow free citizens!!!) and his refusal to even accept the possibility of a 'real' deal with the PM, such as maybe Yingluck's own resignation and perhaps a house dissolution, also shows his total contempt for (to the point of not even bothering to pretend he cares a f* jot about..!!) what 'democracy' actually even involves!!! The democrats haven't won an election for 20 years and isn't good old Mister Suthep just so aware that they ain't about to win another one, even if a new vote WERE called for tomorrow, hence let's just get 'The Thaksins' out (though that's maybe not a bad idea in itself for the country! - just gotta first 'forget' that the sister is actually head of a DEMOCRATICALLY elected government!!!) and put in some folk that WE want to 'rule' (and so we'll have not just the power but also first dobs on the country's assets and cash - again!!!).. Yeah, that'll be DEMOCRACY, alright!!! NOT!!!!!!!

Edited December 3, 2013 by spectrumisgreen