Suthep proposes 'blueprint' for Thailand’s reform, vows to fight on

[webfact]

Suthep proposes 'blueprint' for Thailand’s reform, vows to fight on
By English News



BANGKOK, Dec 4 – Protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban has outlined a blueprint to reform Thailand which calls, among other items, for the recruitment of non-partisan representatives to join a so-called “people’s council” and restructuring of the national police system.

In a speech at the Government Complex last night, he proposed naming an interim prime minister and Cabinet, which he said is possible under Section 7 of the Constitution.

He called for a decentralised system which requires elections of all provincial governors before a general election is held.

“After the groundwork is done, a general election can be organised and the people’s council will be dissolved,” he said.

He said anti-government protesters’ unarmed seizures of the Metropolitan Police Command and Government House were a victory but incomplete "unless the Thaksin regime is totally uprooted."

“We will have to continue working in harmony until the Thaksin regime is eradicated. Civil servants nationwide must carry on their strike until the administrative system is paralysed,” he said.

“The people’s total victory has yet to materialise since the Yingluck government still unlawfully holds on to power.”

He said the People’s Democratic Reform Committee will organise celebrations at three separate locations – Ratchdamnoen Avenue, the Finance Ministry on Soi Aree and the Government Complex on Chaeng Wattana Road – to mark His Majesty the King’s birthday anniversary.

“This is the time to show our loyalty to the King. It will be the greatest celebration ever,” he declared. “We’ll resume the fight on Friday and will carry on until we win.”

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said the situation has yet to return to normal but has improved, calling on the authorities to non-violently handle the protesters and avoid confrontations.

She said academics, businessmen and people from all professions have been invited to jointly find resolutions for Thailand and reform the country in accord with the democratic system under the monarchy.

“We need to find the best resolutions so that the country moves on with confidence and a strengthened economy,” she said.

Thai people should turn to each other and harmoniously show their loyalty to His Majesty the King on his birthday anniversary,” she said.

Police confirmed five people were killed in Ramkhamhaeng area since Saturday.

Dr Narong Sahametapat, permanent secretary for public health, reported that 263 injured in clashes between protesters and the authorities between Saturday and Tuesday. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-12-04

[CPH]

What he really wants is an interim government to change the constitution in order to keep the Democrats at power forever. These people do not want democracy, they only want the power. I am neither red or yellow, they both do not understand what democracy is. The economy is a good judgement of how well a country is doing. Thai economy has been going up in recent years. Thats what is important especially for the poor people. Would the economy have been better under the Yellow, I do not think so. The Yellow will have to wait for the next election and then try to win that. Thats the way democracy works.

[Thailand]

The peoples total victory has yet to materialise since the Yingluck government still unlawfully holds on to power.

He just gets dafter every time he opens his mouth. I don't see much support from the Dems or have they simply distanced themselves from him?

[bkkfaranguy]

The peoples total victory has yet to materialise since the Yingluck government still unlawfully holds on to power.

He just gets dafter every time he opens his mouth. I don't see much support from the Dems or have they simply distanced themselves from him?

And how do they unlawfully hold onto power, I thought they where elected by a majority?

[h90]

What he really wants is an interim government to change the constitution in order to keep the Democrats at power forever. These people do not want democracy, they only want the power. I am neither red or yellow, they both do not understand what democracy is. The economy is a good judgement of how well a country is doing. Thai economy has been going up in recent years. Thats what is important especially for the poor people. Would the economy have been better under the Yellow, I do not think so. The Yellow will have to wait for the next election and then try to win that. Thats the way democracy works.

Maybe I suggest you read that part with elections again. With his plan also the governors who are now appointed get elected.

The real only way it may help the Democrats is that it reduce vote buying. And the Democrats don't have a super rich owner that can finance full scale vote buying like Thaksin.

Economic: compare it with the other countries in the region. Thailand is the worst of it.

Yellows???????????? The Yellows never stand for elections and are virtually dead now. If you didn't notice it, they Yellows were strongly AGAINST the Democrats.

[seminomadic]

Truly the most cancerous demagogue I've ever seen. If this man were coach of a team that was losing a game, he would think himself capable of victory by walking up to the scoreboard and manually changing the numbers.

In La La Land here, his pathetic and childish attempt to steal a victory might actually be tolerated because he happens to be coach of The Commissioner's favorite team.

[h90]

The peoples total victory has yet to materialise since the Yingluck government still unlawfully holds on to power.

He just gets dafter every time he opens his mouth. I don't see much support from the Dems or have they simply distanced themselves from him?

And how do they unlawfully hold onto power, I thought they where elected by a majority?

A government that doesn't accept the constitution and the constitutional court and its ruling is per definition not lawful.

No matter how it was elected, a government can't brake the constitution.

[DocN]

Just imagine for a second, we would not already "know", what he is actually really after...

I am yet to hear more than buzzwords thrown around and wild ideas, along with ultimatums, that no one will ever meet.

"I want elections without vote buying!" (which basically everyone does), "I want to get rid of corruption!" (which even a majority of the population likes, as long as they benefit from it), "I want equality in education and health care"....and I want a pony that sh1ts diamonds for christmas!

HOW do you want to achieve this! Wave your magic wand and say "Expellum corruption"?

[Amir]

The real only way it may help the Democrats is that it reduce vote buying. And the Democrats don't have a super rich owner that can finance full scale vote buying like Thaksin.

Not so sure about it... Maybe they (Dems) have less EXTREME SUPER rich people... but definitely a larger amount of REALLY RICH people.

[VegasVic]

Truly the most cancerous demagogue I've ever seen. If this man were coach of a team that was losing a game, he would think himself capable of victory by walking up to the scoreboard and manually changing the numbers.

In La La Land here, his pathetic and childish attempt to steal a victory might actually be tolerated because he happens to be coach of The Commissioner's favorite team.

Very well put

[jackrich]

It's very strange that Suthep keeps saying only that his goal is to get rid of the Shinawatras, not corruption in general. Does he really believe that the Shinawatras are the only corrupt politicians in Thailand? Or does he simply want to deny the fact that his friends are also corrupt and does not want to piss them off?

Don't get me wrong, I really think Suthep will go down in history. But probably as the person that started what will ultimately be the end of Thailand as we have known and loved it for so many decades.

[Thailand]

The real only way it may help the Democrats is that it reduce vote buying. And the Democrats don't have a super rich owner that can finance full scale vote buying like Thaksin.

Not so sure about it... Maybe they (Dems) have less EXTREME SUPER rich people... but definitely a larger amount of REALLY RICH people.

I know for a fact from a very reliable source of one massive payoff to a Dem a few years ago, related to rice, that put him in the very rich bracket overnight and he would not have been alone in abusing his power.

It's the way the country works and it's not changing anytime soon. Even China is attempting to make strides to reduce corruption here it is simply lip service.

[bigbamboo]

It's very strange that Suthep keeps saying only that his goal is to get rid of the Shinawatras, not corruption in general. Does he really believe that the Shinawatras are the only corrupt politicians in Thailand? Or does he simply want to deny the fact that his friends are also corrupt and does not want to piss them off?

Don't get me wrong, I really think Suthep will go down in history. But probably as the person that started what will ultimately be the end of Thailand as we have known and loved it for so many decades.

I think he's a few years too late for that.

But I do wonder who he has in mind to be the interim PM in his People's Council?

[Calimotty]

What he really wants is an interim government to change the constitution in order to keep the Democrats at power forever. These people do not want democracy, they only want the power. I am neither red or yellow, they both do not understand what democracy is. The economy is a good judgement of how well a country is doing. Thai economy has been going up in recent years. Thats what is important especially for the poor people. Would the economy have been better under the Yellow, I do not think so. The Yellow will have to wait for the next election and then try to win that. Thats the way democracy works.

[JRSoul]

I know for a fact from a very reliable source of one massive payoff to a Dem a few years ago, related to rice, that put him in the very rich bracket overnight and he would not have been alone in abusing his power.

It's the way the country works and it's not changing anytime soon. Even China is attempting to make strides to reduce corruption here it is simply lip service.

Was it hundreds of billions of baht?

[Thailand]

I know for a fact from a very reliable source of one massive payoff to a Dem a few years ago, related to rice, that put him in the very rich bracket overnight and he would not have been alone in abusing his power.

It's the way the country works and it's not changing anytime soon. Even China is attempting to make strides to reduce corruption here it is simply lip service.

Was it hundreds of billions of baht?

No.

[newcomer71]

It's very strange that Suthep keeps saying only that his goal is to get rid of the Shinawatras, not corruption in general. Does he really believe that the Shinawatras are the only corrupt politicians in Thailand? Or does he simply want to deny the fact that his friends are also corrupt and does not want to piss them off?

Don't get me wrong, I really think Suthep will go down in history. But probably as the person that started what will ultimately be the end of Thailand as we have known and loved it for so many decades.

I think he's a few years too late for that.

But I do wonder who he has in mind to be the interim PM in his People's Council?

He gave a hint about it during today press event.

[sjaak327]

The peoples total victory has yet to materialise since the Yingluck government still unlawfully holds on to power.

He just gets dafter every time he opens his mouth. I don't see much support from the Dems or have they simply distanced themselves from him?

And how do they unlawfully hold onto power, I thought they where elected by a majority?

A government that doesn't accept the constitution and the constitutional court and its ruling is per definition not lawful.

No matter how it was elected, a government can't brake the constitution.

Yet Suthep apparantly can right ? Still cheering for undemocratic people I see. Democracy is tough, one have to accept that many voters do not share your opinions.

[Zolt]

The peoples total victory has yet to materialise since the Yingluck government still unlawfully holds on to power.

He just gets dafter every time he opens his mouth. I don't see much support from the Dems or have they simply distanced themselves from him?

Until the NACC decrees that, they are lawfully in power. Suthep's point is that they have lost their legitimacy for instigating the bill to amend the constitution, in violation of Article 8, and then rejecting the verdict of the constitutional court. But the NACC is the only court that has jurisdiction over that and can decide to impeach MPs. They have not done that, and are not planning to issue a verdict for several months.

Arguably, they may have lost their moral legitimacy and popular mandate, but as per the letter of Thai law, they're still in power.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Zolt

[CPH]

What he really wants is an interim government to change the constitution in order to keep the Democrats at power forever. These people do not want democracy, they only want the power. I am neither red or yellow, they both do not understand what democracy is. The economy is a good judgement of how well a country is doing. Thai economy has been going up in recent years. Thats what is important especially for the poor people. Would the economy have been better under the Yellow, I do not think so. The Yellow will have to wait for the next election and then try to win that. Thats the way democracy works.

Maybe I suggest you read that part with elections again. With his plan also the governors who are now appointed get elected.

The real only way it may help the Democrats is that it reduce vote buying. And the Democrats don't have a super rich owner that can finance full scale vote buying like Thaksin.

Economic: compare it with the other countries in the region. Thailand is the worst of it.

Yellows???????????? The Yellows never stand for elections and are virtually dead now. If you didn't notice it, they Yellows were strongly AGAINST the Democrats.

Which countries in Asia do you compare Thailand economically to. Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Burma ?

[thailandpeter2]

What he really wants is an interim government to change the constitution in order to keep the Democrats at power forever. These people do not want democracy, they only want the power. I am neither red or yellow, they both do not understand what democracy is. The economy is a good judgement of how well a country is doing. Thai economy has been going up in recent years. Thats what is important especially for the poor people. Would the economy have been better under the Yellow, I do not think so. The Yellow will have to wait for the next election and then try to win that. Thats the way democracy works.

the problem is that, although many in thailand say that they want a democracy, both sides - as you correctly say - do not really understand the full concept of it. so, the question is, is it the best for now to keep democracy just for democracy's sake? or to look for another, temporary system which enables all to work out a good framework to enable democracy really to work as soon as it's viable again?

the paramount intention of any system of governance should be the well-being of the citizens and the good and peaceful development of the country. i am not sure whether the economy would have been better under the democrats, but it definitely has gone downhill - or at least not gone up - under the current government... and not only because of the floods in 2011...

[Curt1591]

Corruption Buster?

Some Suthep background: http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1369801/thai-protest-leader-suthep-son-elite-axe-grind

Edited December 4, 2013 by Curt1591

[allan michaud]

The real only way it may help the Democrats is that it reduce vote buying. And the Democrats don't have a super rich owner that can finance full scale vote buying like Thaksin.

Not so sure about it... Maybe they (Dems) have less EXTREME SUPER rich people... but definitely a larger amount of REALLY RICH people.

I know for a fact from a very reliable source of one massive payoff to a Dem a few years ago, related to rice, that put him in the very rich bracket overnight and he would not have been alone in abusing his power.

It's the way the country works and it's not changing anytime soon. Even China is attempting to make strides to reduce corruption here it is simply lip service.

Spot on, this about nothing more than getting their snouts back in the trough. Lock up ALL the politicians and their immediate families, high ranking police and military officers and maybe, just maybe the country can move forward.

[CPH]

What he really wants is an interim government to change the constitution in order to keep the Democrats at power forever. These people do not want democracy, they only want the power. I am neither red or yellow, they both do not understand what democracy is. The economy is a good judgement of how well a country is doing. Thai economy has been going up in recent years. Thats what is important especially for the poor people. Would the economy have been better under the Yellow, I do not think so. The Yellow will have to wait for the next election and then try to win that. Thats the way democracy works.

the problem is that, although many in thailand say that they want a democracy, both sides - as you correctly say - do not really understand the full concept of it. so, the question is, is it the best for now to keep democracy just for democracy's sake? or to look for another, temporary system which enables all to work out a good framework to enable democracy really to work as soon as it's viable again?

the paramount intention of any system of governance should be the well-being of the citizens and the good and peaceful development of the country. i am not sure whether the economy would have been better under the democrats, but it definitely has gone downhill - or at least not gone up - under the current government... and not only because of the floods in 2011...

You are right, many Thais do not really want democracy, they just want their political party to stay in power. However, a step out of democracy just because a minority demonstrates in the streets would be a really bad idea, because it is always hard to get back to democracy, elections etc. Thailand has tried that many times when the military has taken over the control of the country. Both sides are paying for votes, so maybe the election results really shows what the thai people wants. The idea that the Democrats do not have the support and the funds is ridiculous, they have the support from all the elite and the rich people.

[Curt1591]

The idea that the Democrats do not have the support and the funds is ridiculous, they have the support from all the elite and the rich people.The idea that the Democrats do not have the support and the funds is ridiculous, they have the support from all the elite and the rich people.

Exactly; Who do you think bought all the food, transportation and other logistics of these demonstrations?

[Carrerakiss]

What he really wants is an interim government to change the constitution in order to keep the Democrats at power forever. These people do not want democracy, they only want the power. I am neither red or yellow, they both do not understand what democracy is. The economy is a good judgement of how well a country is doing. Thai economy has been going up in recent years. Thats what is important especially for the poor people. Would the economy have been better under the Yellow, I do not think so. The Yellow will have to wait for the next election and then try to win that. Thats the way democracy works.

the problem is that, although many in thailand say that they want a democracy, both sides - as you correctly say - do not really understand the full concept of it. so, the question is, is it the best for now to keep democracy just for democracy's sake? or to look for another, temporary system which enables all to work out a good framework to enable democracy really to work as soon as it's viable again?

the paramount intention of any system of governance should be the well-being of the citizens and the good and peaceful development of the country. i am not sure whether the economy would have been better under the democrats, but it definitely has gone downhill - or at least not gone up - under the current government... and not only because of the floods in 2011...

You are right, many Thais do not really want democracy, they just want their political party to stay in power. However, a step out of democracy just because a minority demonstrates in the streets would be a really bad idea, because it is always hard to get back to democracy, elections etc. Thailand has tried that many times when the military has taken over the control of the country. Both sides are paying for votes, so maybe the election results really shows what the thai people wants. The idea that the Democrats do not have the support and the funds is ridiculous, they have the support from all the elite and the rich people.

I think you are also right. All the politicians buy votes, so just maybe it evens out and the election results are valid. And yes, until all Thais realise that they have to accept the result of an election until the next one comes around, there will be no progress. Raising a mob to depose an incumbent government (and both sides have tried it) just means elections based on parties putting forward polices for citizens to consider, are just a waste of time.

I hope the current government survives just simply because I don't think its right to resort to mob rule. Equally, if the government tries the amnesty thing again, I hope there are massive, peaceful demonstrations to stop it.

In due time, the legal ruling will come on whether the government has breached the constitution. When it comes, I hope all accept it by fighting in the courts and at the ballot box, not by raising violent mobs.

[Hawkman]

The peoples total victory has yet to materialise since the Yingluck government still unlawfully holds on to power.

He just gets dafter every time he opens his mouth. I don't see much support from the Dems or have they simply distanced themselves from him?

That's because the Reds all assume that people were pro-Dems when it's always been people have been showing their support for the Thais against the Thaksin regime, the amnesty bill and the rice scam; NOT supporters of Suthep.

Suthep has gone too far and is making the situation far worse but the fact remains the Government started and caused all this mess.

Just got to hope that talks and level heads stop this mayhem and Suthep causes and end to it. They got their message through, would be suicide for the Government to push through the bill now so they've won in a way so time for Suthep to end it. Just got to make sure the Government doesn't do it again.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Hawkman

[brit1984]

The peoples total victory has yet to materialise since the Yingluck government still unlawfully holds on to power.

He just gets dafter every time he opens his mouth. I don't see much support from the Dems or have they simply distanced themselves from him?

And how do they unlawfully hold onto power, I thought they where elected by a majority?

no no no... you are misunderstanding... the democratically elected government is unlawful because the prime minister's brother has a history of corruption and therefore suthep has the right to overthrow the government and take power because he doesn't have any brothers with a history of corruption (he has a history of corruption himself but that does not count)... anyway its his ball and if you dont play by his rules nobody is allowed to play

[CPH]

What he really wants is an interim government to change the constitution in order to keep the Democrats at power forever. These people do not want democracy, they only want the power. I am neither red or yellow, they both do not understand what democracy is. The economy is a good judgement of how well a country is doing. Thai economy has been going up in recent years. Thats what is important especially for the poor people. Would the economy have been better under the Yellow, I do not think so. The Yellow will have to wait for the next election and then try to win that. Thats the way democracy works.

the problem is that, although many in thailand say that they want a democracy, both sides - as you correctly say - do not really understand the full concept of it. so, the question is, is it the best for now to keep democracy just for democracy's sake? or to look for another, temporary system which enables all to work out a good framework to enable democracy really to work as soon as it's viable again?

the paramount intention of any system of governance should be the well-being of the citizens and the good and peaceful development of the country. i am not sure whether the economy would have been better under the democrats, but it definitely has gone downhill - or at least not gone up - under the current government... and not only because of the floods in 2011...

You are right, many Thais do not really want democracy, they just want their political party to stay in power. However, a step out of democracy just because a minority demonstrates in the streets would be a really bad idea, because it is always hard to get back to democracy, elections etc. Thailand has tried that many times when the military has taken over the control of the country. Both sides are paying for votes, so maybe the election results really shows what the thai people wants. The idea that the Democrats do not have the support and the funds is ridiculous, they have the support from all the elite and the rich people.

I think you are also right. All the politicians buy votes, so just maybe it evens out and the election results are valid. And yes, until all Thais realise that they have to accept the result of an election until the next one comes around, there will be no progress. Raising a mob to depose an incumbent government (and both sides have tried it) just means elections based on parties putting forward polices for citizens to consider, are just a waste of time.

I hope the current government survives just simply because I don't think its right to resort to mob rule. Equally, if the government tries the amnesty thing again, I hope there are massive, peaceful demonstrations to stop it.

In due time, the legal ruling will come on whether the government has breached the constitution. When it comes, I hope all accept it by fighting in the courts and at the ballot box, not by raising violent mobs.

Agree.

[monkeycountry]

People talk about majority rule as if there are no other or better options, and that this option is the best for all countries.

I recall a project to improve life for some rural poor in africa many years ago.

Some aid program started a chicken farm with a bunch of local africans working at the farm. They took care of the chickens, and then sold the eggs to make money to buy food and other goods, which worked well for everyone.

Eventually the educated aid guys went home, thinking the africans could now run things themselves.

When they came back 6 months later they found that the africans had eaten all the chickens and the farm was abandoned.

Had the aid guys stayed at the farm and voted with the africans on how to run the farm, the chickens would also have been eaten, as the africans obviously outnumbered the aid guys.

So the question is. What would have been better for the africans. To let the smart aid guys run things, even though they were a minority, or to run the farm with majority rule?

There are obviously a lot of problems with an appointed leader, but majority rule in a 3rd world country may also not be a good solution, even for the majority who wins, as their lack of education means they may not understand the long term consequences of their votes.

I do not have the right solution, but I can see that western world democracy is not good for the majority of Thais, especially the poor, who are easily cheated by selfish leaders (on both sides).