US citizens......do you FBAR?

[thailiketoo]

i make sure all my accounts never reach $10,000

a bit off topic but an interesting read about how the US wants to control every aspect of an American life EVEN when they want give up being a US citizen,

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802.html

BAR

Just curious, why are you averse to filing FBAR?

Because he doesn't have to. The law is for accounts over $10,000.

Yeah, right. Source or link please.

What? What do you think we have been talking about? "you don’t need to file annual FBARs if you have $10,000 or less in your accounts"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/06/25/will-irs-find-your-small-foreign-bank-account/

Now if you are a gentleman you come back and apologize for being so grossly uniformed about the topic under discussion.

[mogandave]

i make sure all my accounts never reach $10,000

a bit off topic but an interesting read about how the US wants to control every aspect of an American life EVEN when they want give up being a US citizen,

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303879604577410021186373802.html

BAR

Just curious, why are you averse to filing FBAR?

Because he doesn't have to. The law is for accounts over $10,000.

Yeah, right. Source or link please.

It's not just for accounts over $10K, if if all your accounts outside the US total $10K.

[mogandave]

Just make sure you're a registered Democrat and you should be okay.

If you're still worried, join the ACLU, and deduct the fee.

Audit? Fugetaboutit!

FBAR has nothing to do with an audit. It is not about taxes and the IRS. Or being a democrat or republican. Why do you post if you don't have any idea about what you are writing about?

Get a grip Maynard, it was a joke.

I've been filing for years without issue.

A joke about a $10,000 fine when no tax is owed? A joke? $10,000 is serious cash to most. Why on earth would you make a joke in a thread that is being used for information about FBAR reporting? Beyond me. How old is FBAR? Why the democrat reference?

So I guess you didn't think it was funny huh?

[thailiketoo]

FBAR has nothing to do with an audit. It is not about taxes and the IRS. Or being a democrat or republican. Why do you post if you don't have any idea about what you are writing about?

Get a grip Maynard, it was a joke.

I've been filing for years without issue.

A joke about a $10,000 fine when no tax is owed? A joke? $10,000 is serious cash to most. Why on earth would you make a joke in a thread that is being used for information about FBAR reporting? Beyond me. How old is FBAR? Why the democrat reference?

So I guess you didn't think it was funny huh?

Joking about a government fining people $10,000 when no crime is committed nor any tax is owed but simply for failing to file some paperwork that the person may or may not have known about does not strike me as the least bit funny. It is tragedy. Not comedy. People die every day in Thailand because they don't have $10,000 for medical treatment. It is about the same as a course of chemo in a Thai hospital.

[JimGant]

I'm calling BS.

When no tax is owed, you're a joe citizen small beer money, you're not up to anything dodgy otherwise, and it's plausible that you honestly didn't know and are now sincerely making up for lost time and coming clean.

Show me ONE bit of evidence the gubmint comes down with a 10K sledgehammer.

Might happen won't say impossible but IMO very very rare, they really are after the intentional dodgers and specifically the bigger fish.

You are calling BS???? Who is asking??? Or tell it to Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/06/04/fbar-penalties-when-will-irs-let-you-off-with-a-warning/

Read a little bit or talk to an American with some money in a Thai bank.

Yeah? Well do a little more Forbes research yourself, including their inclusive reference links.

Q: I have properly reported all my taxable income but I only recently learned that I should have been filing FBARs in prior years to report my personal foreign bank account or to report the fact that I have signature authority over bank accounts owned by my employer. May I come forward under this new program to correct this?

A; For taxpayers who reported, and paid tax on, all their taxable income for prior years but did not file FBARs, you should file the delinquent FBARs according to the FBAR instructions and include a statement explaining why the FBARs are filed late.

The IRS will not impose a penalty for the failure to file the delinquent FBARs if there are no underreported tax liabilities.

See this IRS Pub: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/International-Businesses/2011-Offshore-Voluntary-Disclosure-Initiative-Frequently-Asked-Questions-and-Answers

As referenced in this Forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/12/03/is-filing-your-first-fbar-admitting-to-a-crime/

As has been said on several of these FBAR threads, if you've reported your foreign taxable income, but forgot your FBAR filing, no problem. However, if you haven't reported your foreign income (particularly if you haven't reported *any* foreign income on your Schedule B coming forward now with amended returns and back FBARs probably calls for professional help.

Edited March 11, 2014 by JimGant

[JimGant]

Joking about a government fining people $10,000 when no crime is committed nor any tax is owed but simply for failing to file some paperwork that the person may or may not have known about does not strike me as the least bit funny.

It's not funny for folks who can't do adequate research to get their facts straight. Heck, forget the research -- just read some of the previous FBAR threads on this forum.

[thailiketoo]

I'm calling BS.

When no tax is owed, you're a joe citizen small beer money, you're not up to anything dodgy otherwise, and it's plausible that you honestly didn't know and are now sincerely making up for lost time and coming clean.

Show me ONE bit of evidence the gubmint comes down with a 10K sledgehammer.

Might happen won't say impossible but IMO very very rare, they really are after the intentional dodgers and specifically the bigger fish.

You are calling BS???? Who is asking??? Or tell it to Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/06/04/fbar-penalties-when-will-irs-let-you-off-with-a-warning/

Read a little bit or talk to an American with some money in a Thai bank.

Yeah? Well do a little more Forbes research yourself, including their inclusive reference links.

Q: I have properly reported all my taxable income but I only recently learned that I should have been filing FBARs in prior years to report my personal foreign bank account or to report the fact that I have signature authority over bank accounts owned by my employer. May I come forward under this new program to correct this?

A; For taxpayers who reported, and paid tax on, all their taxable income for prior years but did not file FBARs, you should file the delinquent FBARs according to the FBAR instructions and include a statement explaining why the FBARs are filed late.

The IRS will not impose a penalty for the failure to file the delinquent FBARs if there are no underreported tax liabilities.

See this IRS Pub: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/International-Businesses/2011-Offshore-Voluntary-Disclosure-Initiative-Frequently-Asked-Questions-and-Answers

As referenced in this Forbes article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/12/03/is-filing-your-first-fbar-admitting-to-a-crime/

As has been said on several of these FBAR threads, if you've reported your foreign taxable income, but forgot your FBAR filing, no problem. However, if you haven't reported your foreign income (particularly if you haven't reported *any* foreign income on your Schedule , coming forward now with amended returns and back FBARs probably calls for professional help.

I don't know how else to say it. If you didn't file FBAR you could be in for a $10,000 penalty. It has nothing to do with filing taxes. From the article you posted above, "The IRS could assess penalties for your past failure to file FBARs, but you could contest the penalties."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/12/03/is-filing-your-first-fbar-admitting-to-a-crime/

[thailiketoo]

Joking about a government fining people $10,000 when no crime is committed nor any tax is owed but simply for failing to file some paperwork that the person may or may not have known about does not strike me as the least bit funny.

It's not funny for folks who can't do adequate research to get their facts straight. Heck, forget the research -- just read some of the previous FBAR threads on this forum.

I agree with you. You wrote, "if you've reported your foreign taxable income, but forgot your FBAR filing, no problem."

Then from the article you posted, " The IRS could assess penalties for your past failure to file FBARs, but you could contest the penalties."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/12/03/is-filing-your-first-fbar-admitting-to-a-crime/

Also the same author says, "The penalties for failure to file an FBAR are worse than tax penalties. Failing to file an FBAR can carry a civil penalty of $10,000 for each non-willful violation. But if your violation is found to be willful, the penalty is the greater of $100,000 or 50 percent of the amount in the account for each violation—and each year you didn’t file is a separate violation. "

And, "The IRS says failing to learn of foreign account reporting requirements can be evidence of “willful blindness."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/06/04/fbar-penalties-when-will-irs-let-you-off-with-a-warning/

So who do you believe? Jim writes, "if you've reported your foreign taxable income, but forgot your FBAR filing, no problem." But the article he quotes says, "The IRS could assess penalties for your past failure to file FBARs, but you could contest the penalties."

Edited March 11, 2014 by thailiketoo

[wym]

Maybe you don't understand the meaning of "could"? It's very similar to "may" - they do have the legal ABILITY to do so, but it is left to their discretion.

So yes, they could, but generally - under the circumstances I outlined above - don't.

If there are any other flags that you've consciously evaded in the past, or have had any kind of sophisticated avoidance strategies that would imply you should have been aware of these requirements in the past, or there's anything shady about your business arrangements or lifestyle then all bets are off.

But what are you going to do, keep ignoring the requirement until they've got all the jurisdictions reporting on Americans? When computer systems are all joined up and decades from now your current transaction history is visible to them?

Haven't got any choice but damage control, do the filing now and cross your fingers, far better than waiting another year.

[thailiketoo]

Maybe you don't understand the meaning of "could"? It's very similar to "may" - they do have the legal ABILITY to do so, but it is left to their discretion.

So yes, they could, but generally - under the circumstances I outlined above - don't.

If there are any other flags that you've consciously evaded in the past, or have had any kind of sophisticated avoidance strategies that would imply you should have been aware of these requirements in the past, or there's anything shady about your business arrangements or lifestyle then all bets are off.

But what are you going to do, keep ignoring the requirement until they've got all the jurisdictions reporting on Americans? When computer systems are all joined up and decades from now your current transaction history is visible to them?

Haven't got any choice but damage control, do the filing now and cross your fingers, far better than waiting another year.

You wrote, "Maybe you don't understand the meaning of "could?" It's not me I'm worried about it is the Department of the Treasury. Did you ever try to contest an IRS ruling? The article says, "but you could contest the penalties." Oh ya? Me in Thailand against the IRS?

And this guy Grant tells me, " Yeah? Well do a little more Forbes research yourself, including their inclusive reference links."

The references and links say the IRS can take all of your money. If, they know where it is. And they are trying to get a passport confiscation bill through congress. Not for doing anything wrong. Not for not paying taxes. Not for laundering money. Not cor any crime. They can take your money because you didn't fill in a form they said you should; without telling you.

Edited March 11, 2014 by thailiketoo

[55Jay]

If you work and you name is on an account at work, that account counts toward the $10k and must be reported as well, not just your own money.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yep, although I'm not sure the suggestion that work and personal accounts are linked, or at least not always.

In my case, for years, I FBAR'd due to my signatory authority and control over foreign accounts, but without any financial interest. Still reported the highest annual balance, usually under 1 million US, but never under the impression it had any bearing on my own personal account FBAR reporting and 10k threshold.

I did 1 report but listed both situations distinctly, on their own respective areas of the form.

[55Jay]

Because he doesn't have to. The law is for accounts over $10,000.

Yeah, right. Source or link please.

What? What do you think we have been talking about? "you don’t need to file annual FBARs if you have $10,000 or less in your accounts"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/06/25/will-irs-find-your-small-foreign-bank-account/

Now if you are a gentleman you come back and apologize for being so grossly uniformed about the topic under discussion.

If you were a gentleman, you would refrain from barging in on a personal question from me to PhuketRichard.

After that, I was just winding you up. I am very familiar with FBAR. Get a grip, man. You are making a spectacle of yourself.

[thailiketoo]

Because he doesn't have to. The law is for accounts over $10,000.

Yeah, right. Source or link please.

What? What do you think we have been talking about? "you don’t need to file annual FBARs if you have $10,000 or less in your accounts"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/06/25/will-irs-find-your-small-foreign-bank-account/

Now if you are a gentleman you come back and apologize for being so grossly uniformed about the topic under discussion.

If you were a gentleman, you would refrain from barging in on a personal question from me to PhuketRichard.

After that, I was just winding you up. I am very familiar with FBAR. Get a grip, man. You are making a spectacle of yourself.

Do you really think is is appropriate to wind people up on a thread about $10,000 to $100,000 fines and 5 years jail time? Odd sense of humor.

[JimGant]

They can take your money because you didn't fill in a form they said you should; without telling you.

Not sure how the IRS could be clearer: "The IRS will not impose a penalty for the failure to file the delinquent FBARs if there are no underreported tax liabilities." Forbes, unfortunately, isn't so clear.

Not filing a FBAR, if you didn't owe taxes, is akin to not filing your 1040, if you didn't owe taxes. You're not under the gun just for not filing if there's no related tax liability. The above emphasized quote should, to most, make this clear.

As said way too much on this forum, the FBAR is a huge hammer to hit those who evade taxes AND don't file the FBAR. Pretty simple, actually: IRS penalties for underreporting income are primarily aimed at domestic income. FinCEN, however, is going after overseas income tax evasion, where for too long it was too easy to skate on by, and (without FBAR penalties) the risk was well worth the potential reward, as IRS penalties alone weren't scary enough.

If you paid all your taxes, but forgot to file a FBAR, you can listen to thailiketoo -- or you can read the IRS explanation of what to expect. Your chose.

[JimGant]

Do you really think is is appropriate to wind people up on a thread about $10,000 to $100,000 fines and 5 years jail time?

Believe you're the only one being wound up -- which seems highly appropriate.

Get a grip, man. You are making a spectacle of yourself.

Indeed.

[wym]

You wrote, "Maybe you don't understand the meaning of "could?" It's not me I'm worried about it is the Department of the Treasury. Did you ever try to contest an IRS ruling? The article says, "but you could contest the penalties." Oh ya? Me in Thailand against the IRS?

And this guy Grant tells me, " Yeah? Well do a little more Forbes research yourself, including their inclusive reference links."

The references and links say the IRS can take all of your money. If, they know where it is. And they are trying to get a passport confiscation bill through congress. Not for doing anything wrong. Not for not paying taxes. Not for laundering money. Not cor any crime. They can take your money because you didn't fill in a form they said you should; without telling you.

Alarmist.

Trying to hide your money is the root of your paranoia.

Don't do that and you'll be fine.

US tax rates are very low - as long as you don't include all the private costs, such as

• tuition
• health insurance
• old age pension
• single parent/student support

that more civilised societies don't have to worry about. Especially when you're earning overseas.

It's just not that hard to stay legitimate and not have to worry about the long hard arm of the IRS cracking down on you with their (I agree) very large and heavy sledgehammer.

Sometimes doing the right thing has practical benefits as well, and nothing in life has greater value than peace of mind.

[55Jay]

Yeah, right. Source or link please.

What? What do you think we have been talking about? "you don’t need to file annual FBARs if you have $10,000 or less in your accounts"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/06/25/will-irs-find-your-small-foreign-bank-account/

Now if you are a gentleman you come back and apologize for being so grossly uniformed about the topic under discussion.

If you were a gentleman, you would refrain from barging in on a personal question from me to PhuketRichard.

After that, I was just winding you up. I am very familiar with FBAR. Get a grip, man. You are making a spectacle of yourself.

Do you really think is is appropriate to wind people up on a thread about $10,000 to $100,000 fines and 5 years jail time? Odd sense of humor.

Do you really think it's necessary to repeat that again and again and again and again and again and again?

Winding you up didn't take a sense of humor or much effort at all.

[thailiketoo]

Do you really think is is appropriate to wind people up on a thread about $10,000 to $100,000 fines and 5 years jail time?

Believe you're the only one being wound up -- which seems highly appropriate.

Get a grip, man. You are making a spectacle of yourself.

Indeed.

55Jay posted referring to me, "After that, I was just winding you up." I realize you think flaming and name calling is an acceptable debate tool but I don't. Do you really think lying to wind someone up is good posting practice?

What actually happened is 55Jay made an uninformed statement and his necessity to save face made him try and shift blame to the person who corrected him, me. That old saving face stuff, nasty Western custom.

[thailiketoo]

You wrote, "Maybe you don't understand the meaning of "could?" It's not me I'm worried about it is the Department of the Treasury. Did you ever try to contest an IRS ruling? The article says, "but you could contest the penalties." Oh ya? Me in Thailand against the IRS?

And this guy Grant tells me, " Yeah? Well do a little more Forbes research yourself, including their inclusive reference links."

The references and links say the IRS can take all of your money. If, they know where it is. And they are trying to get a passport confiscation bill through congress. Not for doing anything wrong. Not for not paying taxes. Not for laundering money. Not cor any crime. They can take your money because you didn't fill in a form they said you should; without telling you.

Alarmist.

Trying to hide your money is the root of your paranoia.

Don't do that and you'll be fine.

US tax rates are very low - as long as you don't include all the private costs, such as

• tuition
• health insurance
• old age pension
• single parent/student support

that more civilised societies don't have to worry about. Especially when you're earning overseas.

It's just not that hard to stay legitimate and not have to worry about the long hard arm of the IRS cracking down on you with their (I agree) very large and heavy sledgehammer.

Sometimes doing the right thing has practical benefits as well, and nothing in life has greater value than peace of mind.

I never said anything about taxes. That is my point. The IRS in the Jobs act got the right to fine Americans for not filling out paperwork. I never said anything about taxes or hiding money.

I'll repeat it. The IRS can take 10,000 per paperwork not filled out correctly on your bank accounts. Not taxes. Nothing to do with taxes.

[55Jay]

Do you really think is is appropriate to wind people up on a thread about $10,000 to $100,000 fines and 5 years jail time?

Believe you're the only one being wound up -- which seems highly appropriate.

Get a grip, man. You are making a spectacle of yourself.

Indeed.

55Jay posted referring to me, "After that, I was just winding you up." I realize you think flaming and name calling is an acceptable debate tool but I don't. Do you really think lying to wind someone up is good posting practice?

What actually happened is 55Jay made an uninformed statement and his necessity to save face made him try and shift blame to the person who corrected him, me. That old saving face stuff, nasty Western custom.

I hate the little laughing man but golly gosh darn it!

[thailiketoo]

Believe you're the only one being wound up -- which seems highly appropriate.

Get a grip, man. You are making a spectacle of yourself.

Indeed.

55Jay posted referring to me, "After that, I was just winding you up." I realize you think flaming and name calling is an acceptable debate tool but I don't. Do you really think lying to wind someone up is good posting practice?

What actually happened is 55Jay made an uninformed statement and his necessity to save face made him try and shift blame to the person who corrected him, me. That old saving face stuff, nasty Western custom.

I hate the little laughing man but golly gosh darn it!

I wrote, "Because he doesn't have to. The law is for accounts over $10,000."

55Jay wrote, "Yeah, right. Source or link please."

Jay the above is not a wind up. You were flat out wrong about the law.

All the rest of your posts are a flame to try and cover your mistake. It's OK we all make mistakes. You weren't winding anyone up. I know and anyone who reads the above can figure it out.

[wym]

I never said anything about taxes. That is my point. The IRS in the Jobs act got the right to fine Americans for not filling out paperwork. I never said anything about taxes or hiding money.

I'll repeat it. The IRS can take 10,000 per paperwork not filled out correctly on your bank accounts. Not taxes. Nothing to do with taxes.

So sorry, I thought this:

The references and links say the IRS can take all of your money. If, they know where it is.

Might imply otherwise.

The IRS can take 10,000 per paperwork not filled out correctly on your bank accounts.

Yes they can. So what? They can put you in jail too. Everyone knows you don't mess with them any more than you would the mob.

So fill out the paperwork, simple enough.

However it is definitely alarmist to cause people to think that such harsh punishments will inevitably happen when they've just been lazy, incompetent or ignorant about some details, but otherwise have been upstanding citizens with good intentions and over their lifetime paid the normal tax bills on their normal income.

Again:

It's just not that hard to stay legitimate and not have to worry about the long hard arm of the IRS cracking down on you with their (I agree) very large and heavy sledgehammer.

Peace of mind is worth more than any amount of money.

[55Jay]

I wrote, "Because he doesn't have to. The law is for accounts over $10,000."

55Jay wrote, "Yeah, right. Source or link please."

Jay the above is not a wind up. You were flat out wrong about the law.

All the rest of your posts are a flame to try and cover your mistake. It's OK we all make mistakes. You weren't winding anyone up. I know and anyone who reads the above can figure it out.

Paying attention doesn't seem to be your strong suite but you might notice that I've filed these reports, both personal and corporate, for a number years. They are not a mystery or a new discovery for me. Run along, Rain Man.

[moe666]

I file with turbo tax and the amount they ask if I have in my brokerage account and bank account do not meet the threshold of requested info I leave it at that. No problems yet

[wym]

Long as everyone understands - as long as the TOTAL of ALL money in foreign funds is under 10K.

And I suspect that the "structuring" laws could be applied if they determined in the future that you were INTENTIONALLY keeping under the limits in order to avoid reporting the accounts.

All the methods used and laws passed under the guise of "money laundering" for the drug cartels and anti-terror excuses are being and will be applied to tax evasion.

Edited March 11, 2014 by wym

[55Jay]

I file with turbo tax and the amount they ask if I have in my brokerage account and bank account do not meet the threshold of requested info I leave it at that. No problems yet

Yep, and noticed this year (maybe last too, don't remember) they've included the questions for Foreign Assets Reporting as well as the FBAR. Maybe a consolidated form/reporting process is on the horizon.

[maphraw]

Maybe you don't understand the meaning of "could"? It's very similar to "may" - they do have the legal ABILITY to do so, but it is left to their discretion.

So yes, they could, but generally - under the circumstances I outlined above - don't.

If there are any other flags that you've consciously evaded in the past, or have had any kind of sophisticated avoidance strategies that would imply you should have been aware of these requirements in the past, or there's anything shady about your business arrangements or lifestyle then all bets are off.

But what are you going to do, keep ignoring the requirement until they've got all the jurisdictions reporting on Americans? When computer systems are all joined up and decades from now your current transaction history is visible to them?

Haven't got any choice but damage control, do the filing now and cross your fingers, far better than waiting another year.

I totally with this assessment. And even if you don't have large amounts of money in Thailand start informing the IRS now and do the FBAR and Schedule B on your returns. Just start doing it. Probably wise to get a tax accountant who has experience with this to help out the first time. They are probably aware of some of loopholes and ways to approach the IRS under these circumstances. Actually, it is my hope and belief that unless you are talking about very large sums of money---hundreds of thousands or millions-there is a good chance you won't be bothered. Especially if you have been filing returns every year. The tax accountants that I have talked to, after explaining my situation, said the IRS will probably leave me alone or I might possible be penalized a percentage of the Thai interest/dividends I hadn't reported.

[thailiketoo]

I never said anything about taxes. That is my point. The IRS in the Jobs act got the right to fine Americans for not filling out paperwork. I never said anything about taxes or hiding money.

I'll repeat it. The IRS can take 10,000 per paperwork not filled out correctly on your bank accounts. Not taxes. Nothing to do with taxes.

So sorry, I thought this:

The references and links say the IRS can take all of your money. If, they know where it is.

Might imply otherwise.

The IRS can take 10,000 per paperwork not filled out correctly on your bank accounts.

Yes they can. So what? They can put you in jail too. Everyone knows you don't mess with them any more than you would the mob.

So fill out the paperwork, simple enough.

However it is definitely alarmist to cause people to think that such harsh punishments will inevitably happen when they've just been lazy, incompetent or ignorant about some details, but otherwise have been upstanding citizens with good intentions and over their lifetime paid the normal tax bills on their normal income.

Again:

It's just not that hard to stay legitimate and not have to worry about the long hard arm of the IRS cracking down on you with their (I agree) very large and heavy sledgehammer.

Peace of mind is worth more than any amount of money.

You wrote, "However it is definitely alarmist to cause people to think that such harsh punishments will inevitably happen when they've just been lazy, incompetent or ignorant about some details, but otherwise have been upstanding citizens with good intentions and over their lifetime paid the normal tax bills on their normal income."

Where did I write such harsh punishments will inevitably happen? Quote me. I didn't.

I quoted a Forbes article and you said, "BS."

Stick to the facts. Stop making up things I wrote.

[thailiketoo]

Maybe you don't understand the meaning of "could"? It's very similar to "may" - they do have the legal ABILITY to do so, but it is left to their discretion.

So yes, they could, but generally - under the circumstances I outlined above - don't.

If there are any other flags that you've consciously evaded in the past, or have had any kind of sophisticated avoidance strategies that would imply you should have been aware of these requirements in the past, or there's anything shady about your business arrangements or lifestyle then all bets are off.

But what are you going to do, keep ignoring the requirement until they've got all the jurisdictions reporting on Americans? When computer systems are all joined up and decades from now your current transaction history is visible to them?

Haven't got any choice but damage control, do the filing now and cross your fingers, far better than waiting another year.

I totally with this assessment. And even if you don't have large amounts of money in Thailand start informing the IRS now and do the FBAR and Schedule B on your returns. Just start doing it. Probably wise to get a tax accountant who has experience with this to help out the first time. They are probably aware of some of loopholes and ways to approach the IRS under these circumstances. Actually, it is my hope and belief that unless you are talking about very large sums of money---hundreds of thousands or millions-there is a good chance you won't be bothered. Especially if you have been filing returns every year. The tax accountants that I have talked to, after explaining my situation, said the IRS will probably leave me alone or I might possible be penalized a percentage of the Thai interest/dividends I hadn't reported.

Probably, Probably, Hope, Probably.

If there is anyone reading this thread that knows anything for sure please feel free to post the information.

The FBAR must be filed on or before June 30th of each calendar year and the Secretary of Treasury may impose civil money penalties on any person who fails to timely file the report. Under 31 U.S.C. § 5321, the Secretary may impose a maximum penalty of up to $100,000 or 50% of the balance in the account at the time of such violation if the taxpayer “willfully” fails to file the FBAR, which was the issue in the Williams case.

In January 2002, upon the advice of his attorneys and accountants, Williams fully disclosed the ALQI accounts to an IRS agent. In October 2002, he filed his 2001 tax return that acknowledged his interest in the ALQI accounts. In 2003, Williams amended his 1999 and 2000 tax returns, which disclosed details about his ALQI accounts.

In analyzing whether Williams conduct was willful, the opinion explains that willfulness “may be proven through inference from conduct meant to conceal or mislead sources of income or other financial information,” and it “can be inferred from a conscious effort to avoid learning about reporting requirements.”

http://www.fuerstlaw.com/wp/index.php/13/irs-win-in-appellate-case-portends-bigger-fbar-crackdown/

[mogandave]

Maybe you don't understand the meaning of "could"? It's very similar to "may" - they do have the legal ABILITY to do so, but it is left to their discretion.

So yes, they could, but generally - under the circumstances I outlined above - don't.

If there are any other flags that you've consciously evaded in the past, or have had any kind of sophisticated avoidance strategies that would imply you should have been aware of these requirements in the past, or there's anything shady about your business arrangements or lifestyle then all bets are off.

But what are you going to do, keep ignoring the requirement until they've got all the jurisdictions reporting on Americans? When computer systems are all joined up and decades from now your current transaction history is visible to them?

Haven't got any choice but damage control, do the filing now and cross your fingers, far better than waiting another year.

I totally with this assessment. And even if you don't have large amounts of money in Thailand start informing the IRS now and do the FBAR and Schedule B on your returns. Just start doing it. Probably wise to get a tax accountant who has experience with this to help out the first time. They are probably aware of some of loopholes and ways to approach the IRS under these circumstances. Actually, it is my hope and belief that unless you are talking about very large sums of money---hundreds of thousands or millions-there is a good chance you won't be bothered. Especially if you have been filing returns every year. The tax accountants that I have talked to, after explaining my situation, said the IRS will probably leave me alone or I might possible be penalized a percentage of the Thai interest/dividends I hadn't reported.

Probably, Probably, Hope, Probably.

So what is the alternative?