Uk Settlement Visa

[Talisman]

Hi Guys!

Sorry to hit you with all this in my first post, but I would be gratefull if any of you kind folks could clarify a few points for me!

After a fair bit of travelling around the middle and far East, I have fairly recently returned to the UK. I intend to head back to LOS during June, at which time I will marry my Thai G/f in Bangkok before spending the rest of the month up in Isan!

The first question being: I am having difficulty finding my old divorce certificate! If I cannot find it, how do I meet the embassies requirement for the original copy?

Having married the young lady; we intend to apply for a UK Settlement visa at the earliest opportunity. I think this is unfortunately going to take at least six months, and here's why!

In regards to my ability to support the pair of us: I have just bought a Hackney Carriage, and working a 5 day week gives me around £300 per week net profit! I know that if I knocked myself out, I could double that, but do I need to?

The second question being: is that £300 enough to satisfy the ability to support requirement? How much do they regard as sufficient?

The third question being: As I have only just opened a UK Bank account; will I have to wait 3/6 months before I can submit the application, due to the neccessity to provide bank statements?

I am fortunate in having a self-contained, two-room apartment in my parents house (four bedrooms)! I have their full blessings in regard to living there with my future wife! It doesn't actually cost me anything, but I give my folks £100 a week as a thank you! They own their property outright, and written confirmation that we can stay there as long as we like is not a problem!

The fourth question is: will this satisfy the accommodation aspect?

The fifth question being: Have I missed anything connected with the application that is likely to bite me in the arse? I have known the young lady for precisely one month, but I am old enough and ugly enough to know a good one when I meet one Am I likely to get any adverse inference from this brief period together, or does the marriage negate that factor, or is it not relevant at all! I will also be spending June with her, and I have three months of phone records showing two half hour phone calls every day for that period! She also texts like a obsessive texter, but we dont do emails (she doesnt have a pc) and I haven't written a letter in years! Whats says you?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give! Everything that I know has been gleaned from this site, and Scouser & GU22 in particular; your bloods good enough to bottle: many thanks indeed for all your good work!

Edited May 10, 2006 by Talisman

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Hi Guys!

Sorry to hit you with all this in my first post, but I would be gratefull if any of you kind folks could clarify a few points for me!

After a fair bit of travelling around the middle and far East, I have fairly recently returned to the UK. I intend to head back to LOS during June, at which time I will marry my Thai G/f in Bangkok before spending the rest of the month up in Isan!

The first question being: I am having difficulty finding my old divorce certificate! If I cannot find it, how do I meet the embassies requirement for the original copy?

Having married the young lady; we intend to apply for a UK Settlement visa at the earliest opportunity. I think this is unfortunately going to take at least six months, and here's why!

In regards to my ability to support the pair of us: I have just bought a Hackney Carriage, and working a 5 day week gives me around £300 per week net profit! I know that if I knocked myself out, I could double that, but do I need to?

The second question being: is that £300 enough to satisfy the ability to support requirement? How much do they regard as sufficient?

The third question being: As I have only just opened a UK Bank account; will I have to wait 3/6 months before I can submit the application, due to the neccessity to provide bank statements?

I am fortunate in having a self-contained, two-room apartment in my parents house (four bedrooms)! I have their full blessings in regard to living there with my future wife! It doesn't actually cost me anything, but I give my folks £100 a week as a thank you! They own their property outright, and written confirmation that we can stay there as long as we like is not a problem!

The fourth question is: will this satisfy the accommodation aspect?

The fifth question being: Have I missed anything connected with the application that is likely to bite me in the arse? I have known the young lady for precisely one month, but I am old enough and ugly enough to know a good one when I meet one Am I likely to get any adverse inference from this brief period together, or does the marriage negate that factor, or is it not relevant at all! I will also be spending June with her, and I have three months of phone records showing two half hour phone calls every day for that period! She also texts like a obsessive texter, but we dont do emails (she doesnt have a pc) and I haven't written a letter in years! Whats says you?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give! Everything that I know has been gleaned from this site, and Scouser & GU22 in particular; your bloods good enough to bottle: many thanks indeed for all your good work!

When my wife came to the UK my parents were the sponsers. They had been nover on holiday a couple of times and there were loads of pictures of them together.

I was told that if I wanted to sponser her Ihad to go back to the UK and work for the required length of time - I was working full-time in LOS at the time.

We applied through a lawyer - who told us what paperwork to submit etc - it cost 4000 baht for the lawyer and he took care of everything

[cuddleypete]

There is no minimum requirement for income and/or savings as everybody's circumstances are different. The basic requirement is that you should be able to support and accommodate yourselves without recourse to public funds.

iam sure when Scouser & GU22 read your post they will be giving you some good adivce.

all the best

[GU22]

I was told that if I wanted to sponser her Ihad to go back to the UK and work for the required length of time - I was working full-time in LOS at the time.

Told by whom? The lawyer?

It is not unusual for someone who has been working abroad to return home and bring their spouse/partner with them. Obviously you will need to show that the funds are in place to support yourselves, but there is no requirement for the British partner to return alone and work for a set period of time first. The only time this would be necessary is if there were absolutely no savings or other means of support and no job to return to.

Talisman,

Your situation looks to be ok. You are earning £300 net! That is more than enough, especially as you are effective;y living rent free with your parents! You say that due to your travelling that you cannot supply 6 months bank statements, so supply what you can with a letter to say why you don't have the full 6 months. There is no actual minimum amount of income required to satisfy the support requirement, but as a guide if, after paying rent/mortgage etc., servicing any debts etc, you have more than the basic income support level for a couple (approx £50pw) left then this should satisfy the support requirement.

A letter from your parents confirming the living arrangements and inviting you and your wife to live with them, together with some proof of ownership. This will satisfy the accommodation requirement.

When they ask for original documents they mean not photocopies. If you can obtain an official copy of your decree absolute this should be fine.

My only concern is

I have known the young lady for precisely one month

Remember, it is not your intentions that the ECO will be concerned with, but hers. The question in the ECOs mind will be "Have they known each other long enough for the relationship to be genuine?" Provide as much evidence of the relationship as you can, lots of photos of the two of you together, phone bills, e-mails etc.

See

Guidance - Husbands, wives and partners (INF 4)

Document checklist

[the scouser]

With regard to the divorce certificate, you can get a copy from the county court at which you were divorced. The fee is only a couple of quid.

Don't be put off applying because the embassy asks for various documents which you are currently unable to provide. The embassy, in making their decision, is bound by the immigration rules and, on the assumption that you can otherwise manifest that you meet the criteria, there is nothing stopping your wife-to-be applying as soon as she wishes.

The marriage does not over-ride the length of your relationship, however. The visa officer will use its duration as a means of assessing your intention to live together which is one of the requirements of the rules. You should therefore show as much evidence as you can that you have remained in close contact.

All the best,

Scouse.

[Talisman]

First of all: very many thanks for such prompt and informative replies!

Could I please ask for clarification on a few points that are still unclear to me?

I guess my feelings at this stage are: I would prefer to wait until I definitely comply with an ECO’s guidelines, rather than leave it to that person to make an incorrect subjective value judgement, with the consequences that may result from such a decision! Not satisfied – refusal –appeal etc!

My present thoughts go something like this, and please correct me if I am obviously wrong:

In regards to the person in the UK, being able to support both parties!

I now understand (thanks guys) that there is a minimum realistic figure, subject to an individual’s personal circumstances! Looks like I satisfy that aspect!

But then there is the problem of substantiating that fact: Bank account statements!

Does the guideline say three months, or six??? Going by your gut feeling, should I have the Mrs submit the application in three or six months???

In regards to the need to satisfy an ECO, that:

Remember, it is not your intentions that the ECO will be concerned with, but hers. The question in the ECOs mind will be "Have they known each other long enough for the relationship to be genuine?" Provide as much evidence of the relationship as you can, lots of photos of the two of you together, phone bills, e-mails etc.

Again: going by your gut feeling; Within three months, we will have spent two month long periods together (one of which will be in the family home), and actually known each other for six months. Then you have the daily phonecalls! Is this likely to satisfy an ECO deciding whether we have “ known each other long enough for the relationship to be genuine????"

I have very few photographs at the moment (managed to travel from India to Afghanistan without taking a single photo: sad I know, but I prefer memories). Can I remedy this by taking loads of photographs during the next visit???

In terms of commitement: I decided that I wanted to help the family as much as possible! By which I mean if anyone needs a doctor, then I will cover the cost! Similarly; I covered the modest cost of sending her two kids to a slightly better village school! She doesn’t want me to send anything more than a very modest subsistance for her and the kids, but I like to do what I can! I obviously do not do this for any other reason than it feels right to do so, but now I wonder if this has a hidden benefit in showing “commitement” when an ECO is deliberating on that matter???

Don't be put off applying because the embassy asks for various documents which you are currently unable to provide. The embassy, in making their decision, is bound by the immigration rules and, on the assumption that you can otherwise manifest that you meet the criteria, there is nothing stopping your wife-to-be applying as soon as she wishes.

She wishes to apply ASAP; but knowing what you now know: what do you reckon gives us the best chance of a first attempt success? Three months, Six months or even longer?????

Thanks again guys, and sorry to labour the above points; just want to get it right first time!!!!

Edited May 10, 2006 by Talisman

[the scouser]

Talisman,

My point is that in demanding, for example, 6 months bank statements, the ECO is acting arbitrarily. Nowhere in the immigration rules does is say that such a number of such documents is required for an application to be successful: it is purely a case that the ECO in Bangkok has decided that only 6 months worth of bank statements will satisfy him. Why 6? Why not 2? Why not 47?

The purist within me would say go and apply now, supply your 3 months worth of bank statements and argue your corner if things go awry. Alternatively, you can accede to the ECO's whims and wait until you have the requisite number of bits and pieces of paper.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if you can otherwise satisfy the requirements of the immigration rules there's no need to wait.

Scouse.

[GU22]

Talisman,

My point is that in demanding, for example, 6 months bank statements, the ECO is acting arbitrarily. Nowhere in the immigration rules does is say that such a number of such documents is required for an application to be successful: it is purely a case that the ECO in Bangkok has decided that only 6 months worth of bank statements will satisfy him.

To be fair, the guidance on embassy website and UK Visas or the UKVAC checklist all say "recent" statements etc. Although my and others advice has always been to supply 6 months worth, it's not official and to be honest I have no idea where that 6 month figure came from!

May I ask about the plans for her children. Once it was obvious that we were serious about each other, my wife made it clear that she came as a package with her children. If I forced her to choose between me or her children then she would choose them. For my part, I don't think I could love a woman who would be prepared to abandon her children.

However, we were lucky. Despite initially living with my parents there was room for her daughter as well. (After much discussion and soul searching we agreed that her son, who had just started university, should do what he wished, which was remain in Bangkok and continue his studies.)

So, I understand that for many couples where the Thai partner has children it is a matter of the parent coming now and the kids later, when suitable accommodation has been found.

Though as your parents have a four bedroomed house, does this mean that there will be a spare room? If your wife's children are the same sex, or of each sex but very young (sorry, I forget the age limit), then they could share this bedroom and so come now.

The reason I am bringing them up is that if the children apply for settlement at the same time as the parent then it strengthens the parent's case. Basically, and bluntly, if she was going to do a runner to a brothel in London once she arrived here then she wouldn't be bringing her children too!

I also feel that having her children with her will help her settle into life in the UK. One of the biggest problems when a foreign partner arrives is loneliness and homesickness, especially from family centric cultures such as Thailand. I know that, even though her daughter was with her, my wife missed her son and he twin sister terribly. Five years later, despite the phone and regular visits, she still does!

Sorry, I've wandered off at a tangent there! When, or indeed whether, her children come to live with you is a matter for you and her. However, even if they are not coming at the same time as their mother, they must be included in the relevant section of the application form. Not doing so will jeopardise any future visa application of theirs, even if it's just for a visit.

Basically, my gut instinct is to wait because as you say

Within three months, we will have spent two month long periods together (one of which will be in the family home), and actually known each other for six months.

So, as it appears you will shortly be going to Thailand to stay with her family, then I would apply during that visit. But the danger there is that if she has to be interviewed then, due to the long waiting list, she may not get it until after you have had to return home.

[the scouser]

.....and to be honest I have no idea where that 6 month figure came from!

If memory serves me correctly, it's on the visa section letter which is sent to inform applicants of interview dates. So, in that sense, it is official as far as BKK goes.

Scouse.

[GU22]

Fair point, and you've jogged my memory.

Two questions, though.

Did the letter say that sponsors must supply 6 months worth, or should?

Does the UKVAC checklist replaced this letter?

[the scouser]

Did the letter say that sponsors must supply 6 months worth, or should?

I can't recall. I just asked Mrs Scouse if she kept the letter she received, but, no, she hasn't. However, even if it reads "should", it still conveys an element of compulsion which is not present in the immigration rules.

Does the UKVAC checklist replaced this letter?

That remains to be seen. It does raise an interesting point, though, and that is if an applicant supports their application with less than 6 months worth of statements, will the application centre treat it as incomplete? That, too, remains to be seen.

Scouse.

[Talisman]

Again; many thanks to you both for your thoughts based upon a great deal of experience: absolutely invaluable to people like myself!

It would appear that for want of a better expression: “The six month rule,” is going to be present in the mind of the ECO during any interview! I don’t think that this is a problem in our personal case!

She knows that I have to work for a living, and that I need to be responsible in building up a bit of a slush fund, after all that travelling! I have also informed her that in my opinion we are looking at six-months, and whilst she would prefer to be with me right now, she has been aware of this six-month figure for some time, and has mentally accepted that time period!

I am also happy that she has the opportunity to spend some quality time with her children before coming to the UK! By this I mean; she can enjoy the children without the necessity to work away: Her parents have a small Isan village shop attached to the property: No great money-spinner, but it provides enough to feed the family!

Now it’s my turn to answer a question:

May I ask about the plans for her children. Once it was obvious that we were serious about each other, my wife made it clear that she came as a package with her children. If I forced her to choose between me or her children then she would choose them. For my part, I don't think I could love a woman who would be prepared to abandon her children.

However, we were lucky. Despite initially living with my parents there was room for her daughter as well. (After much discussion and soul searching we agreed that her son, who had just started university, should do what he wished, which was remain in Bangkok and continue his studies.)

So, I understand that for many couples where the Thai partner has children it is a matter of the parent coming now and the kids later, when suitable accommodation has been found.

Though as your parents have a four bedroomed house, does this mean that there will be a spare room? If your wife's children are the same sex, or of each sex but very young (sorry, I forget the age limit), then they could share this bedroom and so come now.

The reason I am bringing them up is that if the children apply for settlement at the same time as the parent then it strengthens the parent's case. Basically, and bluntly, if she was going to do a runner to a brothel in London once she arrived here then she wouldn't be bringing her children too!

I also feel that having her children with her will help her settle into life in the UK. One of the biggest problems when a foreign partner arrives is loneliness and homesickness, especially from family centric cultures such as Thailand. I know that, even though her daughter was with her, my wife missed her son and he twin sister terribly. Five years later, despite the phone and regular visits, she still does!

Sorry, I've wandered off at a tangent there! When, or indeed whether, her children come to live with you is a matter for you and her. However, even if they are not coming at the same time as their mother, they must be included in the relevant section of the application form. Not doing so will jeopardise any future visa application of theirs, even if it's just for a visit.

Yes of course you may ask: here is my take on it so far!

As is sometimes the case: The ex-husband having fathered two children, suddenly upped sticks and left her to her own devices! Apparently the guy desperately wanted a son, and shortly after the birth of the second daughter; he left without providing support and soon after remarried!

I am informed that she would not then allow the father to see the children, and some type of order was made to prevent him doing so! Just to complicate things a little: she is also raising a sisters daughter of the same age as her youngest: the sister whom I have met is not a strong person psychologically, and she had the child when she was only fourteen!

So we have two daughters aged 4 and 9, and the sisters daughter aged 4: the child will be informed of the true situation when she is old enough to understand: at the moment she believes that the mrs is her natural mother!

As is often the case in such situations; Grandmother is the person who ends up looking after the kids, while the daughter goes off to work: In this case it meant that the kids were looked after by the grandparents for four years!

My take on it is this: Great kids are great kids, whoever the father is; and I have always felt that such children are an asset in terms of the happiness they give, as opposed to a potential for matrimonial conflict! As a lawyer in a past life, I was always impressed by The Children Act 1989; based upon the simple presumption, that “ The childs welfare is paramount,” and that any other factor takes second place!

I would dearly love to have all three children reside in the UK, but at this stage I am not sure that this would be the best thing for them personally: though perhaps the time will come when it becomes the right time! The Mrs has the same point of view at the moment, though that may well change with time!

As long as the family has enough money to live well, by which I mean pay the bills, have a good diet, afford any medical bills, and pay that little extra for good schools: It appears that children in Thailand have a very happy childhood indeed!

I just cannot see them having as much freedom in the UK, as the pre-teenagers seem to enjoy in Isan! At the moment they love their new school and friends, and love the freedom of village life, noting that other than there being five adults watching over them, they are also under the collective care of every female in the village: not a bad childhood in my eyes, and thank god the village does not seem to have an amphetamine problem amongst the youngsters yet!

As I hope that we can visit Isan as much as the terms of the ILR allow (perhaps twice a year for a few weeks?) I hope that this, combined with the daughters coming to the UK on holidays, will allow us to get an idea of whats best for the kids! We will just have to tackle this one as we go along, but I must say I do not like the way that many kids (not all obviously) are turning out in the UK at the moment, and many seem to miss out on an old-fashioned childhood!

Bottom line: I don’t actually know whats best, and neither yet does the Mrs: There is indeed room for them, and I would love to have them, but I really do not want to mess up a nice childhood! Will have to play that one by ear, and leave the Mrs make the decision: I just don’t know that much about kids, and mothers always knows best in any case! We will definately take your advice regarding including the kids on the settlement visa application; I would not wish to prejudice any future holiday/settlement visa by making that error: many thanks indeed!

Anyway: A bit of human interest there, and sorry for the long post! Your help has been invaluable, and I am very gratefull indeed to you both, for your kindness and patience in explaining the factual position to me!

I hope that you will not mind, if I ask more questions closer to getting hitched in Bangers, and also at the time of the visa application itself???

Best of luck for the moment, and please keep up the excellent and invaluable advice that you freely give to people!!! If you should happen to think of any other usefull advice, please fire away

Edited May 11, 2006 by Talisman

[srisatch]

Hi Talisman

It is good to see someone doing such thorough homework on the settlement visa application process.

I would like just to add one or two observations.

Within the regulations the officer has to make some judgements about the authenticity of the relationship, its duration, its future. You are talking about bringing a wife and two children to the UK. Clearly the officer is going to be concerned about both your ability to support not only your wife who, if she has limited English skills, is going to need to go to school and then, when the children are older, find employmentt but also about whether, marriage notwithstanding, your relationship is sufficiently and obviously real and durable. It is not in the officer's interest to admit persons who will in due course be reliant on 'public funds'

You should keep detailed records of all contact between the two of you, your bank accounts, your hackney carriage business and particularly all remittances to Thailand when you are in the UK. It appears to me that your continuing documented financial support of the family is important.

Timescale

I do not share the view of others that you would be well advised to marry your g/f asap. One month is a derisory period of time in any relationship. If your g/f cares for you and you really want to marry her and you all go to live in the UK I think there is nothing to lose by your waitng to have accumulated a 6 to 12 month dossier of contact and support.

You will lose nothing by waiting-except of course the possibility that on the evidence you have the officer would issue a visa-but the certainty of that issue will be far more concrete in a while.

One way to deal with this is not to apply for settlement immediately, but simply to get a 6 month visa, for her to go to the UK, open a bank account, acquire some UK 'identity' and return. Officers look very kindly on people who go to the UK and show that they have returned within the terms of their visa.

I agree with others about the children..why leave them behind when you do apply-not for 6 months but for settlement-?

Anyway good luck

[GU22]

if an applicant supports their application with less than 6 months worth of statements, will the application centre treat it as incomplete? That, too, remains to be seen.

I don't see that they could, as their checklist says "recent" and doesn't specify how many.

Talisman,

I can see and fully understand your comments about what may be best for the children. However, I would add one thing. The younger they are when they come to live in the UK, the easier they will find it to adapt.

In order to obtain settlement for her children your wife will need to show that they are her children and that she is legally the only one responsible for them. This means she will need to provide:-

Their birth certificates.

A sole custody document issued by an Ampur or court or the father's death certificate. (Although if no father is named on the birth certificate, these wont be necessary and only the birth certificate will suffice.)

You say

I am informed that she would not then allow the father to see the children, and some type of order was made to prevent him doing so!

Does this order grant her sole custody?

There is also a problem regarding the niece. I am neither a lawyer nor an expert, merely an informed amateur. However, as I see it, if you want this child to live in the UK with you both then I think that your wife will have to legally adopt her. I cannot see that the child will get a visa to live in the UK with her aunt unless the aunt has legal responsibility. (This is to prevent child abduction, smuggling etc.) Hopefully Scouse can advise further.

Further, although the ECO may accept 2 pre teen girls sharing a room, three may cause overcrowding issues to be raised.

srisatch raises a valid point, and obtaining a visit visa for her first may be a good idea. However, as she has no concrete reason to return (children don't count) then this will depend on how genuine the ECO feels the relationship to be. Basically, if the ECO feels that the relationship is genuine and therefore the reason for the visit is genuine then the ECO will also feel that she would not want to put any future settlement visa in jeopardy by overstaying a visit. However, if the ECO is not satisfied about the relationship then it is unlikely that a visit visa would be issued.

The plus side is that, having accepted that the relationship is genuine for the purposes of a visit visa, they must then accept that it is genuine when she applies for settlement.

Finally, you asked

I hope that you will not mind, if I ask more questions closer to getting hitched in Bangers, and also at the time of the visa application itself???

Of course not. Feel free to ask as many questions as you need.

[Talisman]

Much food for thought here: a few more points if I may?

You will lose nothing by waiting-except of course the possibility that on the evidence you have the officer would issue a visa-but the certainty of that issue will be far more concrete in a while.

Srisatch; you make a good point! This if you think about it; is just a game of chess with human consequences! We have no choice in playing the game, but as amateurs we may risk making a premature attack before all our pieces are fully developed! Of course, the result of loosing means a draconian result for the visa applicant! To fully develop my pieces, will take six months but no more: therefore I have no choice; We will apply in six months with all necessary supporting documents! I will develop the pieces!

You should keep detailed records of all contact between the two of you, your bank accounts, your hackney carriage business and particularly all remittances to Thailand when you are in the UK. It appears to me that your continuing documented financial support of the family is important.

Taken onboard: I shall endevour to have a rock-solid file of supporting evidence!

I agree with others about the children..why leave them behind when you do apply-not for 6 months but for settlement-?

We will both give this important matter a great deal of thought! You need the wisdom of Soliman for this one, and it really does come down to what is best for the children! I would be very interested in hearing from anyone who has faced the same predicament: I am very interested in how the kids adapted to life in the UK, away from the Grandparents! Relocating them would be extremely traumatic, not only for them, but also for the grandparents with whom they have resided for nearly four years!

But as GU22 noted:

The younger they are when they come to live in the UK, the easier they will find it to adapt. I think I agree with that, and it would be a lot less traumatic for a 4 year old, than a 9 year old:

but both are young enough to adapt in a loving enveironment! I am giving this one a great deal of thought!

In regard to a sole custody order: she has one! After the divorce, and after the father remarried; both parents continued to work in Sony Bankok for three years, but she found it to traumatic being on the same production line as the husband, so she took a much lower paid job in a shop, which meant 2000B a month living expences, and 2000B being sent home!

The ampur granted a sole custody order in favour of the mother on the grounds of abandonment and failure to support! The family took the decision that they did not want the ex to have contact with the children, as he was failing to support them in any way at all! That’s different to an approach that a UK court would have taken, but that’s the way it actually panned out, and importantly the children accepted it, and are looking forward to having a new father figure: You know how pragmatic Thais can be, including young children!

srisatch AND gu22 raise a valid point, and obtaining a visit visa for her first may be a very good idea.

However, as she has no concrete reason to return (children don't count) then this will depend on how genuine the ECO feels the relationship to be. Basically, if the ECO feels that the relationship is genuine and therefore the reason for the visit is genuine then the ECO will also feel that she would not want to put any future settlement visa in jeopardy by overstaying a visit. However, if the ECO is not satisfied about the relationship then it is unlikely that a visit visa would be issued.

Further, although the ECO may accept 2 pre teen girls sharing a room, three may cause overcrowding issues to be raised.

The Aunts daughter actually has the prospect of things working out just right! The aunt who is now 18 ( the Mrs is 30, and I am an old fart of 46 summers) has returned home with a new long-term boyfriend and husband to be, and he seems a steady type of guy and a good un! The bad news is; that whilst he loves all the kids: she has not got around to telling boyfriend and daughter the good news: shes the mother! This is bound to happen sooner or later, and I think this guys going to be just fine about it: The long suffering type, just like me!

Now having put the Settlement application on ice until the necessary profile has been set in concrete: you have both given me reason to think about an option, that I was very keen upon; but then dismissed due to the shift of emphasis regarding burden of proof: from me to the Mrs. Visitors Visas and “ sufficient reason to return !”

I know that it would be a months R&R for us both, and a chance for her and my folks to look look; but knowing the background what do you think an ECO is going to think?? We obviously would comply and not overstay as we are looking for a long term solution, and would not wish to jeapordise that!

The only facts that you don’t know is that the family home was left to her by her grandmother! We are talking a house in Isan with a small shop attached, in which the whole family reside! She also has a five year old pickup truck as the family met the payments after papa headed west! She has zero savings, and you know the rest!

Fire away if you can Gents: Balance of probabilities on an ECO granting a VV pending a later SV application! Please don’t pull your punches! Do we have anything to loose other than a bit of disappointment: I am of course referring to potentially jeapordising the future SV application in regard to a refused VV!

Edited May 11, 2006 by Talisman

[the scouser]

You don't have anything to lose as each visa application is judged on its own merits, so a refusal of a visit visa won't, per se, jeopardise a subsequent settlement application.

When you apply for the visit visa, I would write a covering letter in which you state pretty much what you've said here about your girlfriend's circumstances and your joint intentions. Whilst a shophouse and a pick up truck may not be particularly compelling reasons to return by themselves, you would be hoping to satisfy the visa officer in the round of your good intentions and sense of reasonableness. Certainly, I think that you're doing the right thing in thinking of asking only for a one month visit: bearing in mind your g/f's circumstances, this is eminently more realistic than going for the whole 6-month hog.

All the best,

Scouse.

[Talisman]

You don't have anything to lose as each visa application is judged on its own merits, so a refusal of a visit visa won't, per se, jeopardise a subsequent settlement application.

Thanks Scouse: thats exactly what I needed to hear: nothing at risk other than some potential disappointment, and maybe a few bob!

I will start researching this evening: If it works out, then its all plus points, not least of which is more "relationship time" on the clock for purposes of determining an SV application!

I may have more questions; sorry in advance!

[GU22]

I agree with Scouse.

If you were to apply for a visit and it were refused, all you have lost is the fee.