PM offers House dissolution and national election

[catweazle]

Some of the commentary on Ms Shinawatra is pretty awful and I am not saying that this government is a good one but what the former politician wants is an unelected government with him leading it in other words he wants to be a dictator. I have seen little on TV of anyone who reminded me more of Hitler than that man. Accept the elections then accept the result and let a new government get on with it because there could well be a major global recession especially if the US goes bankrupt and that is very likely.

Poor Fatman, while I fully agree with your predictions of a global recession and the US of A going downhill big time, you will now be thrown in the melting pot along with all of us "conspiracy and ufo freaks" by some members in this forum... We are up for a big one, I'm sure of that.

[thaimite]

So there's an election....and who will win?

If the Democrats and others concentrated on trying to win over the public rather than wresting power from the incumbent, they might get a better result in elections.

Lets face it they are no more or less corrupt than Pheu Thai - just richer and more middle class.

it's like trying to choose between the Tea-party and the GOP....frying pan / fire job.......

First you don't have to post half a dozen times to make your point. Yes, I know TV was having problems but pressing post repeatedly doesn't solve them.

Second the Dems are not richer than PTP. PTP have a dam_n site more money backing them which enables them to buy more votes. Both parties have rich, middle-income & poor supporters.

Far too many Farangs fail miserably to understand that Thai politics & parties have no equivalent in the west. Yes, greed is universal in politics but ideology is not part of local party politics.

Thai Democracy; - The best that money can buy!!!

[marcusd]

The PM should tell them to go screw themselves The election is in 19 months, start campaigning now if you're that bothered.

I hope you are not English or European! I would hate to this my countrymen went to defend you from tyranny and ended up with such pitiful waste d people reflecting the stupidity you and others of your ilk are doing here over this government.

READ PEOPLE READ before you put the tinea between your toes in your mouth each time you post!

Maybe the alternative Government is not brilliant BUT evidence suggests that they were no where near as evil nor corrupt as this government has been to its own people. This government scares foreign investors, makes it hard for their own people and does what that is positive?

So many of you defending the PM as if she is really doing something positive or DEMOCRATIC (do you really understand that word?) are carrying on about democracy like it actually exists here? Go read a book unless you are really that incapable of knowledge because your comments certainly reflect no wisdom at all.

[Suffinator]

The truth is that it has come to the point where it doesn't matter if you do have a duly democratically elected Government for there will always be one side that opposes the appointment therefore demonstrating for their own greed and the round-about continues to revolve.

You cannot and will not have democracy in a country where the people are ignorant to its true meaning nor where certain individuals are prevented from getting their snouts in the trough.

If corruption could be removed (most unlikely) then maybe, just maybe it could work - until then those stupid enough to follow either color will continue to be blindly lead by those who greedy and corrupt.

[marcusd]

well done, PM. I think that's the best solution. Probably she will be elected again. HOPEFULLY

From one of my other comments I say this to you ... I would be more blunt but I am trying to respect FORUM rules...

I hope you are not English or European! I would hate to this my countrymen went to defend you from tyranny and ended up with such pitiful waste d people reflecting the stupidity you and others of your ilk are doing here over this government.

[marcusd]

Really? A little skeptic since the previous 'd-days' pretty much flopped; it doesn't seem like that many people will show for what is most likly going to be rioting to get into government house and ther buildings. But even if 100,000 does show up like he hopes, it's unlikly they will get into government house; and even if they did and they occupy it, they will have ot camp out in it for months like they did prior to the airport seizure. A alrge turnout is almost irrelivant because there have been large turnouts before and the redshirts always bring out even larger crowds, hopefully it will really end tomarrow and the democrats go back to the drawing board on how to participate in parliment legitimatly, Some people on this thread say that Yingluck is going to create another financial ccrises and her support is waning, that's fine then she will be voted out of office in 2 years when her term ends; for her term to end prematurly due to these nuts at democracy monument will simply perpetuate more chaos. Abhist never caved into the rioters demands in 2010 so why should she.

Another classic stalling technoque. First Surapong threatening to arrest everyone including the executives of Blue Sky TV and those who dared to provide toilets for protestors and now Yingluck trying to get everyone to turn around and go home. There is a MASS exodus to Bangkok from the large town where I live. My wife is desperate for us to go, luckily all flights out of 6 to BKK today are now sold out as are the trains. BKK is gonna be mighty busy tomorrow! I can only hope all international flights out of BKK are likewise fully booked and that these MP's are unable to scuttle off like rats to Dubai.

Do you understand how to work in parliament or anywhere legitimately? If so do please share your wise knowledge with Yingluck and her kind. because this government even under the Thai Laws, does not. A bit here... a bit there... Oh dear leave that bit out...

[Jackson86]

Saw on news that the opposition plans to mass resign, a fatal mistake. If opposition wishes to win election again, they should do it the right way, not through protests.

[fab4]

The Dem's have just announced that they have resigned en masse from parliament. This government is over, and if they do not contest the next elections parliament will not be able to be seated.

Just how pathetic are they?

Apparently this was reported on facebook. A meeting was held but 3 important players weren't involved, the Chief Party Advisor, Chuan Leekpai and the two deputy party leaders Korn Chatikavanij and Alongkorn Ponlaboot, who will henceforth be known as the Three Wise Men.

[DonThaiToMe]

Tragic that a small number of protestors are able to achieve this (if there will be new elections).

On the other hand, if there will be new elections, I think that the Suthep-team only have shot them self in the foot, and they will lose the election (again) big time!. Either way, in short term Thailand has only lost on this embarrassing show led by Suthep.

In the long term though, hopefully this farce can be a reminder that elections are held to be respected!

(Although I´m not counting on it, this is Thailand after all).

Well said! Your choice of words as well as your signature gives the impression that you have been around much longer than for a mere 21 posts - got kicked out by our beloved global moderators and re-entered under a new name, huh?

Hello catweazle!

Thank you very much for your kind words!

Unfortunately(?) I´m not who you, and some other posters, seems to think that I am. Actually the "mere" 21 posts I´ve posted here is my total contribution.

I started following the recent news about Thailand on ThaiVisa, and to my horror I saw all these crazy views/opinions being posted so I finally decided to add some common sens to this forum aswell.

I´ve lived in Thailand for quite a few years though.

[pookiki]

I still feel that a coup is Suthep's and the Democrats' endgame. They know who the Army will support. And how can Suthep continue to fumble toward the creation of a People's Council? Does he really think that he will have any legitimacy? Suthep and the Democrats cannot accept a 'Democracy' in which they are the minority party -- simple as that.

[whybother]

Big problem is that you have to dissolve the government right away. If not then PTP can go into gift mode and give to the people that are uneducated enough to be bought.

Is the problem 'gifts to the uneducated poor' or is the problem the 'educated abusing the poor" for all these decades?

I'm pro poor and supporting them is the moral thing to do.

The same local poo yais and regional politicians are keeping the poor down now as kept the poor down for decades. The only difference now compared to 15-20 years ago, is that these local and regional politicians have sold themselves to Thaksin.

[smedly]

there will be no elections until the political system is fixed

constitution rewrite then a referendum, they should also seek international help to achieve this so it is done properly once and for all

a team of accountants then need to go through government finances the last 2 years and those responsible for theft need to be jailed - some emergency powers would help this process along with asset seizure

rules put in place to ban criminal MP's for life not just 5 years and the voting structure in the house changed to 2/3 majority for any future charter of constitution amendments and scrap the immunity protection law for sitting MP's from prosecution

the above would be a good start

[citizen33]

In other countries with Parliamentary systems governments resign, but in Amazing Thailand it is the opposition Democratic Party that takes this step - hilariously misnamed indeed!

[DrDweeb]

I don't know how to achieve the removal of the Shiniwatras from politics. That is Sutheps stated goal, and a worthy target. Thaksin running the country from Dubai is not right. When an MP is quoted as saying that the cabinet is having a difficult time trying to balance how much influence Thaksin should have, it is clear that he runs the show. How anyone can actually say that it is democratic is beyond me. Dissolution and elections will not rid the country of the plague that is Thaksin. Convince PTP that the gravy train will come to an end unless the whole clan is banned, then maybe democracy can work.

There is a myth circulating that PTP were the winners of a democratic election. Wrong.

Democracy is not just about who gets past the post first.

It's about respect for the rule of law, for without the rule of law there can be no democracy.

It's about allowing your opponents to speak and campaign: PTP drove them out of 'their' areas, threatened some people in some villages if they did not vote for PTP and encouraged their supporters to deface Democrat posters throughout the country.

It's about offering and discussing policies rather than bribes**

**(Computers for all kids, was a bribe not a policy, less than 10% are now used for education purposes; tax refund on car purchase was another bribe - this was not linked to any transport policy; extraordinarily high prices for rice - a bribe to the farmers in exchange for their support but not part of a sustainable agro-policy where, for example, the increased use of soil damaging fertilizers to create higher yields and therefore income is totally anti- any thought out agro policy.

And on and on and on ....

Until greater things happen and Thailand is in the hands of the Thaksin dictatorship.

And where is the proof of that? I keep reading these accusations but the reality is that my 5 year old makes things up too. Doesn't mean that it's true.

If you don't have the proof - maybe you can tell me the current weather situation in dream land?

To which set of blatantly obvious facts do you address your post?

You post is meaningless as is the undirected question.

[smedly]

The Thai political system is faulty - it needs fixed and until it is fixed there is no point in holding elections

If any of you doubt what I have said above then look at the history - it doesn't lie

The current system creates polarisation with the people, it also allows sitting government to abuse power - lie - steal - corrupt - ignore laws - ignore the courts - create bias with supposed independent bodies such as the police and DSI, the list goes on

The whole this is a mess, how can you elect anyone into that

enough is enough I hope suthep is genuine we'll soon find out if he isn't and he too will be kicked into touch by the people

[waza]

Big problem is that you have to dissolve the government right away. If not then PTP can go into gift mode and give to the people that are uneducated enough to be bought.

Is the problem 'gifts to the uneducated poor' or is the problem the 'educated abusing the poor" for all these decades?

I'm pro poor and supporting them is the moral thing to do.

Dear UncleJ, no one is anti poor,however, for some reason you are confusing Thaksin's capitalist, self enriching, old boys club with an utilitarian, egalitarian socialist movement

Edited December 8, 2013 by waza

[apetley]

 

Big problem is that you have to dissolve the government right away.  If not then PTP can go into gift mode and give to the people that are uneducated enough to be bought.

 

Is the problem 'gifts to the uneducated poor' or is the problem the 'educated abusing the poor" for all these decades? 

 

I'm pro poor and supporting them is the moral thing to do.

 

 

The same local poo yais and regional politicians are keeping the poor down now as kept the poor down for decades.  The only difference now compared to 15-20 years ago, is that these local and regional politicians have sold themselves to Thaksin.  

Well I live in Kanchanaburi where the Dems do rather well. Guess what, they also dish out the 500bht come election time and have their noses in the trough.

The whole system is rotten to the very core and to expect any party or person in any of the current parties to implement real changes is just about beyond belief.

[DrDweeb]

Big problem is that you have to dissolve the government right away. If not then PTP can go into gift mode and give to the people that are uneducated enough to be bought.

Is the problem 'gifts to the uneducated poor' or is the problem the 'educated abusing the poor" for all these decades?

I'm pro poor and supporting them is the moral thing to do.

Charity doesn't make poor people better off.

To raise the poor, requires long term economic growth and serious education and other policies.

PTP doesn't have a policy on anything. Cheap cars is not transport policy and tablets for students is not an education policy.

There is no moral high ground for throwing money at the poor, bribes or otherwise.

The high ground is throwing them opportunity and providing them with the education necessary to take that opportunity.

I do not see TS and Co. doing anything to address this - there is NO POLICY. PTP are puppets to TS and the only goal is the return of TS and sel enrichment.

[badmedicine]

Big problem is that you have to dissolve the government right away. If not then PTP can go into gift mode and give to the people that are uneducated enough to be bought.

Is the problem 'gifts to the uneducated poor' or is the problem the 'educated abusing the poor" for all these decades?

I'm pro poor and supporting them is the moral thing to do.

Good luck finding a team in Thailand's present political turmoil that is championing the poor. Don't think for one second it's Elite Team B (Peau Thai Party) any more than it's Elite Team A (the original elitists aka Democrat Party).

[pookiki]

The Thai political system is faulty - it needs fixed and until it is fixed there is no point in holding elections

If any of you doubt what I have said above then look at the history - it doesn't lie

The current system creates polarisation with the people, it also allows sitting government to abuse power - lie - steal - corrupt - ignore laws - ignore the courts - create bias with supposed independent bodies such as the police and DSI, the list goes on

The whole this is a mess, how can you elect anyone into that

enough is enough I hope suthep is genuine we'll soon find out if he isn't and he too will be kicked into touch by the people

There is no such thing as a perfect democracy. The problem is that there is no acceptance of the democratic system even with the flaws. The Constitutional rewrite in 2006 was accomplished by whom? The Democrats fully expected to win the election after with this new Constitution but it didn't happen. As I see it, the minority party wants to keep rewriting the Constitution until it is so tilted to guarantee it rule by the minority. In addition, the military must not be a political entity unto itself as it is now. But do you honestly think any Constitution will accomplish that?

[DrDweeb]

yingluck is very smart and very intelligent women. at least much more then the everage thai politician and much more as everyone from the so called opositon and therefore hatet by a lot of mens :-D she knows she will win the next elections too if this is the case :-D

ROTFL

I am sorry, she is so intellectually incapable that it beggars belief. She is TS's bagman, literally, and now she is his puppet.

Nothing can change these two facts.

I doubt that a single intelligent thought has ever entered her head, and she certainly never demonstrates any ability to engage in intelligent discourse, in fact she avoids it at every opportunity according to the reports of her parliamentary performances.

[Queenslander]

Is it possible that the Government/Red Shirt supporters who continually claim that the Yingluck government was democratically elected are either politically naive or socially inept. Seemingly they cannot, or refuse, to see that it is Thaksin who really governs and orchestrates government/political strategy, and he was not part of the democratic election process. It is his interference in due political process that is the real issue here. I am surprised that expats cannot see that democratic government and Thaksin initiated government are not one and the same thing!! This does not mean that I support the current political situation, but at least I know and accept why it has/and needed to happen.

[DrDweeb]

Really? A little skeptic since the previous 'd-days' pretty much flopped; it doesn't seem like that many people will show for what is most likly going to be rioting to get into government house and ther buildings. But even if 100,000 does show up like he hopes, it's unlikly they will get into government house; and even if they did and they occupy it, they will have ot camp out in it for months like they did prior to the airport seizure. A alrge turnout is almost irrelivant because there have been large turnouts before and the redshirts always bring out even larger crowds, hopefully it will really end tomarrow and the democrats go back to the drawing board on how to participate in parliment legitimatly, Some people on this thread say that Yingluck is going to create another financial ccrises and her support is waning, that's fine then she will be voted out of office in 2 years when her term ends; for her term to end prematurly due to these nuts at democracy monument will simply perpetuate more chaos. Abhist never caved into the rioters demands in 2010 so why should she.

Another classic stalling technoque. First Surapong threatening to arrest everyone including the executives of Blue Sky TV and those who dared to provide toilets for protestors and now Yingluck trying to get everyone to turn around and go home. There is a MASS exodus to Bangkok from the large town where I live. My wife is desperate for us to go, luckily all flights out of 6 to BKK today are now sold out as are the trains. BKK is gonna be mighty busy tomorrow! I can only hope all international flights out of BKK are likewise fully booked and that these MP's are unable to scuttle off like rats to Dubai.

Hmm, PTP's ability to bring in the crowds is in direct proportion to the cash on hand thatthey have available.

Now that TS's bagman is the PM, and she can no longer move the cash, who will be the new bagman?

I think the PTP apologists in TV has failed to notice that this is a very broad based popular uprising against YS (TS) and PTP as a government.

The "poor" are still waiting to be paid for their rice, btw. YS's great "gift" to the poor.

[badmedicine]

yingluck is very smart and very intelligent women. at least much more then the everage thai politician and much more as everyone from the so called opositon and therefore hatet by a lot of mens :-D she knows she will win the next elections too if this is the case :-D

ROTFL

I am sorry, she is so intellectually incapable that it beggars belief. She is TS's bagman, literally, and now she is his puppet.

Nothing can change these two facts.

I doubt that a single intelligent thought has ever entered her head, and she certainly never demonstrates any ability to engage in intelligent discourse, in fact she avoids it at every opportunity according to the reports of her parliamentary performances.

Thaksin tried putting someone in power that could think for themselves with Samak and didn't like the result. That was precisely why he chose his sister for the job last time round.

[DrDweeb]

The truth is that it has come to the point where it doesn't matter if you do have a duly democratically elected Government for there will always be one side that opposes the appointment therefore demonstrating for their own greed and the round-about continues to revolve.

You cannot and will not have democracy in a country where the people are ignorant to its true meaning nor where certain individuals are prevented from getting their snouts in the trough.

If corruption could be removed (most unlikely) then maybe, just maybe it could work - until then those stupid enough to follow either color will continue to be blindly lead by those who greedy and corrupt.

This is not "one side", this is a very broad based protest. The protestors are everyone and anyone, poor, rich, students, middle class. They are the country.

All the PTP shills here making out it is an us (PTP) versus them (PAD) are just painting a strawman.

PTP have failed dismally to show anything other than incompetence and greed, and even the poor who voted them in have started to become aware of it.

[badmedicine]

Is it possible that the Government/Red Shirt supporters who continually claim that the Yingluck government was democratically elected are either politically naive or socially inept. Seemingly they cannot, or refuse, to see that it is Thaksin who really governs and orchestrates government/political strategy, and he was not part of the democratic election process. It is his interference in due political process that is the real issue here. I am surprised that expats cannot see that democratic government and Thaksin initiated government are not one and the same thing!! This does not mean that I support the current political situation, but at least I know and accept why it has/and needed to happen.

But that's a too simplistic understanding of the situation. Fact is, the reds were set to get a hiding in the polls last time out because of the incompetence of Thaksin's earlier proxies and that bad behaviour of their bully boys in Siam Square/Central world fiasco. However, Thaksin pulled the PR masterstroke of naming Yingluck as the PM candidate and the slogan "Thaksin thinks, Peau Thai does". If you will recall, he also made statements like "My sister is a clone of me". All this was deliberate to tell the electorate "Its Thaksin vs Abhisit", and "the only reason my sister is there instead of me is that the Yellows rigged the charges against me". That's what the people voted for. They clearly wanted Thaksin. No one was under any illusion about who they were voting for.

Edited December 8, 2013 by badmedicine

[DrDweeb]

The Thai political system is faulty - it needs fixed and until it is fixed there is no point in holding elections

If any of you doubt what I have said above then look at the history - it doesn't lie

The current system creates polarisation with the people, it also allows sitting government to abuse power - lie - steal - corrupt - ignore laws - ignore the courts - create bias with supposed independent bodies such as the police and DSI, the list goes on

The whole this is a mess, how can you elect anyone into that

enough is enough I hope suthep is genuine we'll soon find out if he isn't and he too will be kicked into touch by the people

There is no such thing as a perfect democracy. The problem is that there is no acceptance of the democratic system even with the flaws. The Constitutional rewrite in 2006 was accomplished by whom? The Democrats fully expected to win the election after with this new Constitution but it didn't happen. As I see it, the minority party wants to keep rewriting the Constitution until it is so tilted to guarantee it rule by the minority. In addition, the military must not be a political entity unto itself as it is now. But do you honestly think any Constitution will accomplish that?

I must be on a different planet.

I am almost 100% certain that the PTP (the parliamentary majority at the moment) tried to change the constitution and it got knocked on the head by the Constitutional Court.

So, it is now the "minority party wants to keep rewriting the Constitution"???

You, are deluded.

[whybother]

Is it possible that the Government/Red Shirt supporters who continually claim that the Yingluck government was democratically elected are either politically naive or socially inept. Seemingly they cannot, or refuse, to see that it is Thaksin who really governs and orchestrates government/political strategy, and he was not part of the democratic election process. It is his interference in due political process that is the real issue here. I am surprised that expats cannot see that democratic government and Thaksin initiated government are not one and the same thing!! This does not mean that I support the current political situation, but at least I know and accept why it has/and needed to happen.

But that's a too simplistic understanding of the situation. Fact is, the reds were set to get a hiding in the polls last time out because of the incompetence of Thaksin's earlier proxies and that bad behaviour of their bully boys in Siam Square/Central world fiasco. However, Thaksin pulled the PR masterstroke of naming Yingluck as the PM candidate and the slogan "Thaksin thinks, Peau Thai does". If you will recall, he also made statements like "My sister is a clone of me". All this was deliberate to tell the electorate "Its Thaksin vs Abhisit", and "the only reason my sister is there instead of me is that the Yellows rigged the charges against me". That's what the people voted for. They clearly wanted Thaksin. No one was under any illusion about who they were voting for.

Clearly, you're reading into the result what you want. There is no evidence that people that voted for PTP wanted Thaksin back. There were many things that people voted for - the rice scheme, the car scheme, the tablet scheme, or simply someone that wasn't the Democrats. Thaksin wasn't on the electoral roll, so no one has any idea who was voting for him and who was voting for the PTP "policies".

[badmedicine]

Thaksin wasn't on the electoral roll,

For the reasons I gave earlier, that was clearly beside the point. The electorate have a far better understanding of the nuances of Thai politics than most of the posters on TV give them credit for.

All of the policies you refer to were widely reported and understood as at that time coming from Thaksin.

Edited December 8, 2013 by badmedicine

[pookiki]

The Thai political system is faulty - it needs fixed and until it is fixed there is no point in holding elections

If any of you doubt what I have said above then look at the history - it doesn't lie

The current system creates polarisation with the people, it also allows sitting government to abuse power - lie - steal - corrupt - ignore laws - ignore the courts - create bias with supposed independent bodies such as the police and DSI, the list goes on

The whole this is a mess, how can you elect anyone into that

enough is enough I hope suthep is genuine we'll soon find out if he isn't and he too will be kicked into touch by the people

There is no such thing as a perfect democracy. The problem is that there is no acceptance of the democratic system even with the flaws. The Constitutional rewrite in 2006 was accomplished by whom? The Democrats fully expected to win the election after with this new Constitution but it didn't happen. As I see it, the minority party wants to keep rewriting the Constitution until it is so tilted to guarantee it rule by the minority. In addition, the military must not be a political entity unto itself as it is now. But do you honestly think any Constitution will accomplish that?

I must be on a different planet.

I am almost 100% certain that the PTP (the parliamentary majority at the moment) tried to change the constitution and it got knocked on the head by the Constitutional Court.

So, it is now the "minority party wants to keep rewriting the Constitution"???

You, are deluded.

The question posed is who wrote the 2006 Constitution? Not sure which planet you were when that happened .And is what manner did the 2006 Constitution change the previous Constitution in 1997. At any rate, yes, the CC court ruled against the PTP. The PTP tried to amend one part of the Constitution, not a complete rewrite. The amendment called for the Senate to be a fully elected body as it was in 1997. Fine, there were no elections for the Senate were there? Now, Suthep wants a People's Government starting with a People's Council. From what source does he draw his power other than his own desires? How can Suthep say he represents a majority of the Thai people? BUT -- so many people in this forum say that 'fair' elections are not possible. Too much corruption they say. Is Suthep and his daily diktats that answer or another coup? Frankly, I would prefer Prayuth to Suthep any day!

Edited December 8, 2013 by pookiki