Elites versus the grass-roots is a dangerous myth: Thai editorial

[JRSoul]

I think, it is all a bit of this and a bit of that.

Of course, in a time were every household has access to internet, it is more likely that "the poor" might want to have a piece of what "the rich" have.

Having said that: it is not about "rich vs poor", "red vs yellow", "Suthep vs Thaksin"...there are shades of gray and many things play into what we see of Thailand now.

The biggest part of it is, that you can not take a feudal society and say "...and from now on, we are a democracy"!

What this country urgently needs, is a "crack down" on the hierarchy- system, followed by education, education and more education.

And here we are again: who will mainly be opposed to that crack down (and the education of "the uneducated")?

To say it is not at all about "elite" vs "poor" is as wrong as the opposite.

The poor would love to have what the rich have, especially if it doesn't involve work. Those prepared to work, but trapped in an uneconomic industry, have homes, own land and family/village relationships, while the work that pays requires relocation. So if somebody is prepared to buy their vote by topping up their income, why not. That the money allocated is mostly stolen, that their children are not getting the education to earn more, or the health services they need, is of little concern.

But don't be surprised that those paying most of the tax, and then seeing it diverted to corruption and vote-buying instead of improvement, get a bit angry.

[moe666]

I find many of the comments here interesting and a few still stuck in a very western way of thinking. To continue to say that the reds are uneducated is a bit patronizing (I am sure some are but not likely all are) and to think all anti PTPs are educated is another fallacy, as my ex girlfriend had the barest of education but she knew Big T wasn't in it for Thailand.

I know many working class people and a few upper class folks here in Chiang Mai who are anti PTP and especially anti Big T, they know of the corruption and bag room deals that have been going on for years here locally. Thais are not ignorant and believe it are not they are not all corrupt as many here seem to think. Get out a make a few new friends boys get to know some Thais outside your comfort zone maybe it will be an eye opener, stop thinking all thais are from the same mold.

[moe666]

I think, it is all a bit of this and a bit of that.

Of course, in a time were every household has access to internet, it is more likely that "the poor" might want to have a piece of what "the rich" have.

Having said that: it is not about "rich vs poor", "red vs yellow", "Suthep vs Thaksin"...there are shades of gray and many things play into what we see of Thailand now.

The biggest part of it is, that you can not take a feudal society and say "...and from now on, we are a democracy"!

What this country urgently needs, is a "crack down" on the hierarchy- system, followed by education, education and more education.

And here we are again: who will mainly be opposed to that crack down (and the education of "the uneducated")?

To say it is not at all about "elite" vs "poor" is as wrong as the opposite.

The poor would love to have what the rich have, especially if it doesn't involve work. Those prepared to work, but trapped in an uneconomic industry, have homes, own land and family/village relationships, while the work that pays requires relocation. So if somebody is prepared to buy their vote by topping up their income, why not. That the money allocated is mostly stolen, that their children are not getting the education to earn more, or the health services they need, is of little concern.

But don't be surprised that those paying most of the tax, and then seeing it diverted to corruption and vote-buying instead of improvement, get a bit angry.

Reading your first sentence you are from the school of thought that Thai people are all lazy.

[aussieinthailand]

Pure BS. It is not a case of elite against grass roots. The Shin dynasty are just as elite, if not more so than any of the democrats or their backers.

What we are witnessing is a classic case of educated versus uneducated. So simple really, once you understand.

" What we are witnessing here is a classic case of educated versus uneducated" exactly the elitist attitude that is a major problem in Thailand...

Tell me is a doctor in Issan less educated than a doctor in BKK? Is a judge in Ching Mai less educated than a judge in BKK?

Not all people in the north just take care of a buffalo, But some here on TV very much should...

[UncleJ]

I think, it is all a bit of this and a bit of that.

Of course, in a time were every household has access to internet, it is more likely that "the poor" might want to have a piece of what "the rich" have.

Having said that: it is not about "rich vs poor", "red vs yellow", "Suthep vs Thaksin"...there are shades of gray and many things play into what we see of Thailand now.

The biggest part of it is, that you can not take a feudal society and say "...and from now on, we are a democracy"!

What this country urgently needs, is a "crack down" on the hierarchy- system, followed by education, education and more education.

And here we are again: who will mainly be opposed to that crack down (and the education of "the uneducated")?

To say it is not at all about "elite" vs "poor" is as wrong as the opposite.

The poor would love to have what the rich have, especially if it doesn't involve work. Those prepared to work, but trapped in an uneconomic industry, have homes, own land and family/village relationships, while the work that pays requires relocation. So if somebody is prepared to buy their vote by topping up their income, why not. That the money allocated is mostly stolen, that their children are not getting the education to earn more, or the health services they need, is of little concern.

But don't be surprised that those paying most of the tax, and then seeing it diverted to corruption and vote-buying instead of improvement, get a bit angry.

The vote buying excuse doesn't hold up. It's what sore losers say.

If vote buying was really the problem, why do the democrats and army refuse to let international observers in the last two elections?

Thaksin's people want the international observers.

Explain that.

[Zolt]

This protest group is inclusive of a broad spectrum of society, it has more people involved than just the yellow shirts, people from every walk of life are there, yellow shirts, disenchanted red shirts, business people, the very rich and the very poor from all over the nation are involved. I don't think this protest can be labelled as a Bangkok elite against Thaksin protest, it is at least for the people, a movement against rampant corruption, whether it is the same for the leaders or not, I don't know, but it seems that the people have finally had enough of corrupt government.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Elite or not, whichever segment of society they represent, they can't claim to represent the Thai people until they actually win elections. It is that simple and it is why the foreign press is mostly taking the government's side, even if they are inept. From the point of view of democratic countries, an inept, elected leader is still better than a "benevolent" unelected one.

It's not even that hard, the Democrats did a respectable showing in the last elections, and the minor parties have showed that they would rather ally with the democrats than PT, if given the choice. The current government has a dismal record with flood management, that has hurt them with their core electorate, and are also facing disillusionment about their various populist schemes. If the democrats actually proposed popular policies and engaged the Northeast public constructively and instead of basically denying that their votes count for anything, I'm sure they could easily have won the scheduled 2015 elections.

With an election in 2014 that's going to be much harder, especially with their protest bullshit. That is, if they even participate. If they continue to push for a coup instead, that will make their party the biggest misnomer in the history of politics.

[gemini81]

I think, it is all a bit of this and a bit of that.

Of course, in a time were every household has access to internet, it is more likely that "the poor" might want to have a piece of what "the rich" have.

Having said that: it is not about "rich vs poor", "red vs yellow", "Suthep vs Thaksin"...there are shades of gray and many things play into what we see of Thailand now.

The biggest part of it is, that you can not take a feudal society and say "...and from now on, we are a democracy"!

What this country urgently needs, is a "crack down" on the hierarchy- system, followed by education, education and more education.

And here we are again: who will mainly be opposed to that crack down (and the education of "the uneducated")?

To say it is not at all about "elite" vs "poor" is as wrong as the opposite.

The poor would love to have what the rich have, especially if it doesn't involve work. Those prepared to work, but trapped in an uneconomic industry, have homes, own land and family/village relationships, while the work that pays requires relocation. So if somebody is prepared to buy their vote by topping up their income, why not. That the money allocated is mostly stolen, that their children are not getting the education to earn more, or the health services they need, is of little concern.

But don't be surprised that those paying most of the tax, and then seeing it diverted to corruption and vote-buying instead of improvement, get a bit angry.

The vote buying excuse doesn't hold up. It's what sore losers say.

If vote buying was really the problem, why do the democrats and army refuse to let international observers in the last two elections?

Thaksin's people want the international observers.

Explain that.

Vote buying does occur and impacts the results indeed. It is a fact. As well as in Cambodia, or where have you. Just some common mathematics. How does that make someone a sore loser?

A bitter looking man in the profile image matches the bitter words.

Make them sweet so they taste better; both for you and for us.

[Spare]

"Elites versus the grass-roots is a dangerous myth"

What is more dangerous is that the Thai people refuse to accept that it isn't a myth. It is true.

[rjcampbe]

The editorial from The Nation is rubbish.

I think it finally gets to the point in the last sentence, but it does a terrible job of making the argument all the way through.

I agree that when you strip away all the other noise, most Thai's want a clean and accountable democracy. It is unfortunate that very few have any idea what that actually means or how to accomplish it.

This conflict IS about rich vs. poor. It IS about the elite vs. the peasantry. It IS about the educated vs. the non educated.

But more significantly, it IS about CLASS WARFARE that is designed to maintain the status quo for those in power.

Anybody who says differently is either ignoring the facts or deliberately trying to deceive you. In most cases, this obfuscation is accomplished by the monotonous political bickering about who was MORE corrupt than the other...

I have no love or interest for either side, beyond the prudent concern about the stability of the country I live in. I also acknowledge my own bias that I believe in equal opportunity and that everyone should abide by the same rules.

The fact is that the elite in this country (whether you call them yellow shirts, democrats, elite, rich, or whatever) have systematically ensured that the game is slanted in their favor for hundreds of years. They accept, support, condone and encourage the high level of corruption inherent in this patronage system because it allows them to achieve their goals of raping and pillaging whatever they want. The scale of the corruption varies depending upon the means of the player, but it all leads to a system where the poor are excluded and suppressed.

For many decades, the ruling elite have failed to deliver a functioning education system in the country, opting to educate their own children in International schools or abroad, in order to stunt the development of those less fortunate. This practice is so entrenched in the country that most of the population has an education that would not qualify them for ENTRY into high school in a developed country.

These same "elite" have failed to create the political environment, infrastructure improvements, and legal and regulatory environment, to encourage foreign investment that would create jobs and stimulate economic growth in the country that could help lift the poor out of poverty. They are more interested in the personal gain from kickbacks, tea money, and official scams and corruption than in developing the economy for the good of the country and the people.

The exact cost of the corruption will never be known. It has been estimated that it is billions of baht that get siphoned off of every business deal, every transaction, and every project, that goes into the hands of corrupt business men, government officials, police, and military. This money is shared up the chain with the patrons of the elite who stand by blindly and enable this theft from the future of Thailand.

So, with that backdrop... along comes Thaksin... He is as rich and corrupt as any of them... But he is smarter. He brands himself as the "champion of the downtrodden" and he gains their support. If we are honest, there are probably a couple of programs that he supported that were needed and seriously beneficial to the poor, but most of it was pork barrel, populist policies and vote buying.

Thaksin harnessed the discontent of the poor who had been excluded for so long and successfully positioned himself as the leader to solve their problems. Meanwhile, he filled his pockets as fast as he could like all the rest. However, what he DID accomplish was to unite the rural people behind a cause. Even if that cause was largely a sham... This fact shifted the balance of power between the rural poor and the urban elite and led to the situation we have today... where both of sides will do whatever is necessary in order to remove the other side from power without respect for the constitution or parliamentary rules... by demonstrations and protest, by legal action, or by military coup.

Their ends justify their means and they will do anything and say anything to hold onto power. Meanwhile, the people are being used like pawns in the game listening to all the Red vs. Yellow propaganda... They just can't see that both parties are the same... And sadly, many on this forum can't see it either.

There are only two way's forward...

One is to respect the rules of the constitution to address various problems... Whether that is corruption of officials, having the fugitive Ex PM involved in the government policies, or anything else. It should be dealt with according to the rules defined in the constitution and should apply evenly to both sides. When parties / officials say "We don't recognize the ruling of the constitutional court" there is clearly a problem...

THE ONLY way forward that does not involve more bloodshed is to ignore the rhetoric on both sides and RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW.

I think you already know what the other way would be...

[mojorison]

Trying to explain this to people outside Thailand is like banging your head against a brick wall. They actually believe the BS written by a few biased international journalists.

Exactly... any attempt to explain the torrent of effluent dribbling out of the corridors of The Nation, are just absurd. Your assumption, (if that's what you are saying) that the foreign journos are biased, and therefore by default the local ones are not is idiotic. What agenda do you think the foreign media have in this irrelevant little joke? This notion of tweaking a democracy to suit the Thai way is banal. Either you have a democracy the "usual" way or you don't, and that's the way it's being viewed.

[DocN]

I think, it is all a bit of this and a bit of that.

Of course, in a time were every household has access to internet, it is more likely that "the poor" might want to have a piece of what "the rich" have.

Having said that: it is not about "rich vs poor", "red vs yellow", "Suthep vs Thaksin"...there are shades of gray and many things play into what we see of Thailand now.

The biggest part of it is, that you can not take a feudal society and say "...and from now on, we are a democracy"!

What this country urgently needs, is a "crack down" on the hierarchy- system, followed by education, education and more education.

And here we are again: who will mainly be opposed to that crack down (and the education of "the uneducated")?

To say it is not at all about "elite" vs "poor" is as wrong as the opposite.

The poor would love to have what the rich have, especially if it doesn't involve work. Those prepared to work, but trapped in an uneconomic industry, have homes, own land and family/village relationships, while the work that pays requires relocation. So if somebody is prepared to buy their vote by topping up their income, why not. That the money allocated is mostly stolen, that their children are not getting the education to earn more, or the health services they need, is of little concern.

But don't be surprised that those paying most of the tax, and then seeing it diverted to corruption and vote-buying instead of improvement, get a bit angry.

Isn't it interesting, that the "rich" and "educated" don't give a hoot about educating the "poor"?

They complain, that they are uneducated, when they don't do as they should.

...and only at that time!

[manfrommanteo]

Thaksin is CFR and big banks....that's why he's portrayed as the good guy in these stories by the western CFR run media.

[UncleJ]

They must have a version of The Nation in places like North Korea.

Pushing the agenda of the army generals and their backers.

There are great sources for information like the Australian National University website, http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/category/thailand/

or the Asian Correspondent,

http://asiancorrespondent.com/author/siamvoices/

or my favorite, Bangkok Pundit,

http://asiancorrespondent.com/author/bangkokpundit/

.

Edited December 11, 2013 by UncleJ

[Valentine]

I think, it is all a bit of this and a bit of that.

Of course, in a time were every household has access to internet, it is more likely that "the poor" might want to have a piece of what "the rich" have.

Having said that: it is not about "rich vs poor", "red vs yellow", "Suthep vs Thaksin"...there are shades of gray and many things play into what we see of Thailand now.

The biggest part of it is, that you can not take a feudal society and say "...and from now on, we are a democracy"!

What this country urgently needs, is a "crack down" on the hierarchy- system, followed by education, education and more education.

And here we are again: who will mainly be opposed to that crack down (and the education of "the uneducated")?

To say it is not at all about "elite" vs "poor" is as wrong as the opposite.

The poor would love to have what the rich have, especially if it doesn't involve work. Those prepared to work, but trapped in an uneconomic industry, have homes, own land and family/village relationships, while the work that pays requires relocation. So if somebody is prepared to buy their vote by topping up their income, why not. That the money allocated is mostly stolen, that their children are not getting the education to earn more, or the health services they need, is of little concern.

But don't be surprised that those paying most of the tax, and then seeing it diverted to corruption and vote-buying instead of improvement, get a bit angry.

The vote buying excuse doesn't hold up. It's what sore losers say.

If vote buying was really the problem, why do the democrats and army refuse to let international observers in the last two elections?

Thaksin's people want the international observers.

Explain that.

International observers would be a waste of time IMO. Vote buying is much more sophisticated than before. The paymasters do not stand at the gates of the polling booths doling out cash. People I know get paid days after their vote has been verified.

[rjcampbe]

I think, it is all a bit of this and a bit of that.

Of course, in a time were every household has access to internet, it is more likely that "the poor" might want to have a piece of what "the rich" have.

Having said that: it is not about "rich vs poor", "red vs yellow", "Suthep vs Thaksin"...there are shades of gray and many things play into what we see of Thailand now.

The biggest part of it is, that you can not take a feudal society and say "...and from now on, we are a democracy"!

What this country urgently needs, is a "crack down" on the hierarchy- system, followed by education, education and more education.

And here we are again: who will mainly be opposed to that crack down (and the education of "the uneducated")?

To say it is not at all about "elite" vs "poor" is as wrong as the opposite.

The poor would love to have what the rich have, especially if it doesn't involve work. Those prepared to work, but trapped in an uneconomic industry, have homes, own land and family/village relationships, while the work that pays requires relocation. So if somebody is prepared to buy their vote by topping up their income, why not. That the money allocated is mostly stolen, that their children are not getting the education to earn more, or the health services they need, is of little concern.

But don't be surprised that those paying most of the tax, and then seeing it diverted to corruption and vote-buying instead of improvement, get a bit angry.

The vote buying excuse doesn't hold up. It's what sore losers say.

If vote buying was really the problem, why do the democrats and army refuse to let international observers in the last two elections?

Thaksin's people want the international observers.

Explain that.

International observers would be a waste of time IMO. Vote buying is much more sophisticated than before. The paymasters do not stand at the gates of the polling booths doling out cash. People I know get paid days after their vote has been verified.

Sorry Valentine, but you are wrong on that one...

Just a little over a month ago I went with my wife's family to a polling station in her hometown in Issan for a local election where I literally watched as they handed 1000 baht notes to each person as they went in to vote.

I watched it with my own eyes... so don't tell me that it doesn't happen.

[UncleJ]

Certainly international election observers have a methodology that has been proven in numerous circumstances worldwide.

I just find it amusing that Thaksin's groups want them and the democrats/army refuse unbiased specialists to watch over things.

[jpeg]

Pure BS. It is not a case of elite against grass roots. The Shin dynasty are just as elite, if not more so than any of the democrats or their backers.

What we are witnessing is a classic case of educated versus uneducated. So simple really, once you understand.

i thought that was what this article said?

[UncleJ]

Both sides pay.

Common knowledge both side pay.

To say the democrats can't afford to pay is absurd. They are backed by staggering bankrolls that make Thaksin's fortune looks like a kids piggybank savings. (Families powerful enough to run him out of town while serving as legitimate Prime Minister is an example.)

Korn: …People like to divide the camps into rural and urban. The majority of the southern voters are rural. The popularity of Thaksin in the Northeast and to a lesser degree in the North is undeniable. It is also undeniable that traditionally they have been less politically active then southerners. It is also undeniable that money politics is less prevalent in the South. We we have less money than PPP. However I agree with Chris [baker], money “is the price you pay to play the game but it doesn’t dictate whether you win or lose”. “If a candidate today in Loei runs under the Democrat banner for him to try to win he would need to spend two or three times more than his PPP opponent in order to win and even then he still might lose.

This is exactly what happened in the last election. A number of the old TRT MPs in the Northeast defected to the new party Puea Paendin and “they outspent PPP three to one and they still lost”. This goes along way to confirming what Chris said, but money is no longer determinative of your success.

Here is a comprehensive look at vote buying.

http://asiancorrespo...-the-democrats/

http://asiancorrespo...oral-democracy/

Edited December 11, 2013 by UncleJ

[jpeg]

Sorry Valentine, but you are wrong on that one...

Just a little over a month ago I went with my wife's family to a polling station in her hometown in Issan for a local election where I literally watched as they handed 1000 baht notes to each person as they went in to vote.

I watched it with my own eyes... so don't tell me that it doesn't happen.

I've never, from personal experience, seen this in the South. What with the rice pledging scam, together with the fact that the overwhelming bar tarts here on Phuket suggests that the N NE are more easily bought? And no, by no means are all Southerners 'rich'. Well done, you married into an entire family of the easily bought/persuaded/ignorant.

[animatic]

I think, it is all a bit of this and a bit of that.

Of course, in a time were every household has access to internet, it is more likely that "the poor" might want to have a piece of what "the rich" have.

Having said that: it is not about "rich vs poor", "red vs yellow", "Suthep vs Thaksin"...there are shades of gray and many things play into what we see of Thailand now.

The biggest part of it is, that you can not take a feudal society and say "...and from now on, we are a democracy"!

What this country urgently needs, is a "crack down" on the hierarchy- system, followed by education, education and more education.

And here we are again: who will mainly be opposed to that crack down (and the education of "the uneducated")?

To say it is not at all about "elite" vs "poor" is as wrong as the opposite.

The poor would love to have what the rich have, especially if it doesn't involve work. Those prepared to work, but trapped in an uneconomic industry, have homes, own land and family/village relationships, while the work that pays requires relocation. So if somebody is prepared to buy their vote by topping up their income, why not. That the money allocated is mostly stolen, that their children are not getting the education to earn more, or the health services they need, is of little concern.

But don't be surprised that those paying most of the tax, and then seeing it diverted to corruption and vote-buying instead of improvement, get a bit angry.

The vote buying excuse doesn't hold up. It's what sore losers say.

If vote buying was really the problem, why do the democrats and army refuse to let international observers in the last two elections?

Thaksin's people want the international observers.

Explain that.

It's called playing the nationalism card during an election

Can't win without the arch-nationalist vote no matter which side you are on.

[Morakot]

most Thais are united by frustration with corrupt govt

If this is really true, why would they not dispose of the lot at the next election?

[animatic]

Why does the boss of the Perception Management Team working TVF

think assigning someone to a persona here actually makes them be believed?

So transparent. I guess subtlety is a thing of the past, or they think we are that stupid.

Edited December 11, 2013 by animatic

[rjcampbe]

Pure BS. It is not a case of elite against grass roots. The Shin dynasty are just as elite, if not more so than any of the democrats or their backers.

What we are witnessing is a classic case of educated versus uneducated. So simple really, once you understand.

The fact that the leadership of both parties are a part of the rich "elite" does not change the fact that this is a class war where the elite (regardless of the color of their shirt or the name of their party) are screwing the rural poor, and have been for hundreds of years.

Education, or the lack thereof, is a fundamental tool they use to suppress the poor and make them malleable to the constant propaganda (aka brainwashing) they are bombarded with. Corruption is the tool used to keep the poor economically suppressed and politically impotent.

Don't be distracted by the details of the daily skit on the banana republic political farce variety show. This is a carefully planned and skillfully orchestrated suppression of the majority by the minority... and it has been going on for a long time.

If you life your head out of the weeds and look around, what you see on the horizon is obvious and terrifying.

Someone else on the forum recently made the analogy between the situation in Thailand and Apartheid in South Africa. While there are clearly many differences, there are also many similarities... One thing I don't see here is a Nelson Mandela who would set aside their personal and political ambitions to be a mediating force for the betterment of the country.

[mojorison]

Pure BS. It is not a case of elite against grass roots. The Shin dynasty are just as elite, if not more so than any of the democrats or their backers.

What we are witnessing is a classic case of educated versus uneducated. So simple really, once you understand.

The fact that the leadership of both parties are a part of the rich "elite" does not change the fact that this is a class war where the elite (regardless of the color of their shirt or the name of their party) are screwing the rural poor, and have been for hundreds of years.

Education, or the lack thereof, is a fundamental tool they use to suppress the poor and make them malleable to the constant propaganda (aka brainwashing) they are bombarded with. Corruption is the tool used to keep the poor economically suppressed and politically impotent.

Don't be distracted by the details of the daily skit on the banana republic political farce variety show. This is a carefully planned and skillfully orchestrated suppression of the majority by the minority... and it has been going on for a long time.

If you life your head out of the weeds and look around, what you see on the horizon is obvious and terrifying.

Someone else on the forum recently made the analogy between the situation in Thailand and Apartheid in South Africa. While there are clearly many differences, there are also many similarities... One thing I don't see here is a Nelson Mandela who would set aside their personal and political ambitions to be a mediating force for the betterment of the country.

This is how I see it too. There is something inevitable on the horizon, and yes it will rock Thai establishment to the core.

[belg]

even it is a conspiracy from middle class... they are the only one paying taxes to give away their money to people who never pay anything and only take the benefits

hey, this sounds a lot like our home countries where unwilling to work people get everything for free

[Valentine]

Sorry Valentine, but you are wrong on that one...

Just a little over a month ago I went with my wife's family to a polling station in her hometown in Issan for a local election where I literally watched as they handed 1000 baht notes to each person as they went in to vote.

I watched it with my own eyes... so don't tell me that it doesn't happen.

I've never, from personal experience, seen this in the South. What with the rice pledging scam, together with the fact that the overwhelming bar tarts here on Phuket suggests that the N NE are more easily bought? And no, by no means are all Southerners 'rich'. Well done, you married into an entire family of the easily bought/persuaded/ignorant.

From a local election in Phuket there was payment to favourable voters after the election result. They were contacted & asked to go & collect their payment. With international or any impartial observers watching no one will be handing out cash at the ballot booth.

[billd766]

Trying to explain this to people outside Thailand is like banging your head against a brick wall. They actually believe the BS written by a few biased international journalists.

And we all know The Nation is a shining example of homegrown impartiality.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So why do you read it and use a forum that is allied to it?

[mojorison]

Trying to explain this to people outside Thailand is like banging your head against a brick wall. They actually believe the BS written by a few biased international journalists.

And we all know The Nation is a shining example of homegrown impartiality.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So why do you read it and use a forum that is allied to it?

For the ignorant, would you care to elaborate on this "alliance"? Because I was not aware Thaivisa was a politically aligned forum. If it is, I want my money back.

[billd766]

Ironic that a plunderer like Suthep ( a guy that lost the election) is leading the charge?

Is he the cleanest guy they can find? A guy that stole land from the poor and gave it to the wealthy.

Remember the last Army coup?

The general they appointed as PM got caught with a house he had built in a national park.

These guys are thieves that don't want elections.

Can you plase show with good links, just how when and where Suthep STOLE the land from the poor and gave it to the wealthy.

I suspect that however hard I tried I wouldn't be able to find it. However, since you said it, it must be true, so PROVE what you have said.

Of course if you can't prove it then it shows how much your word is worth.

[Emptyset]

Sorry Valentine, but you are wrong on that one...

Just a little over a month ago I went with my wife's family to a polling station in her hometown in Issan for a local election where I literally watched as they handed 1000 baht notes to each person as they went in to vote.

I watched it with my own eyes... so don't tell me that it doesn't happen.

I've never, from personal experience, seen this in the South. What with the rice pledging scam, together with the fact that the overwhelming bar tarts here on Phuket suggests that the N NE are more easily bought? And no, by no means are all Southerners 'rich'. Well done, you married into an entire family of the easily bought/persuaded/ignorant.

Actually a Thai academic that studied the issue reckoned vote buying* was more effective in the South and Central areas than the N/NE. Yet it's still only effective around 5% of the time. Further to this, the Democrats spent 165 million baht during the last election, to PT's 93 million according to the ECT's report. This supports the comments made by one of the Democrat Party's deputy leaders, Alongkorn, that they spent more money than PT did in the last election, so he doesn't want to hear anything more about this issue. Plus you also have the remarks by Korn highlighted by another poster.

So why are people still going on about this again? Ah yes, I forgot. They're clutching at straws to try to claim PT weren't legitimately elected and thus an appointed 'People's Council' is therefore justified.

*There are also studies by foreign academics which detail vote buying in the South.