Australia court bans gay marriage

[F4UCorsair]

Of course I believe in equal rights, but in a democracy those rights must be legislated, and currently they have not been, but as it is a democracy, they have the right to continue to lobby/push for change.

To qualify what I said in my earlier post, I am not opposed to a group, such as the disabled, being treated equally, but NOT BETTER THAN the bulk of the population. When they have a win, they are euphoric, think they run the world, and go for more. Where does it stop?

Not everybody is equal, and some are more equal than others. Have you read George Orwell's Animal Farm? If not, get round to a second hand book shop, Ulysses place in Chiang Mai if you live there, and absorb the message.

If you can't get over the inequality in life, there is an alternative, unpalatable to me, and most, as it is.

Incidentally, Australia is not the only country to refuse homosexuals the right to 'marry', but they have the right to civil unions, and all the rights that go with that.

There were demonstrations round the world in 2011/12 about 'redistributing the wealth'!!! The argument was that those on the bottom of the stack were being left behind, but largely the campaign was being run by bludgers who wanted everything handed to them on a platter, everything that others had toiled years to achieve. There is always a front man/person who is running an agenda, seeking his hour in the sun, and who isn't always committed to, or even believe in, the cause.

Life is not equal, and it will always be thus.

Edited December 12, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[sustento]

Of course I believe in equal rights, but in a democracy those rights must be legislated, and currently they have not been, but as it is a democracy, they have the right to push for change.

To qualify what I said in my earlier post, I am not opposed to a group, such as the disabled, being treated equally, but NOT BETTER THAN the bulk of the population, and when they have a win, they are euphoric, think they run the world, and go for more. Where does it stop?

It stops when everyone has equal rights. No-one is asking to be to be treated better than anyone else. We just want to be treated the same as everyone else as a matter of course rather than as a gift bestowed from above by people like you.

[F4UCorsair]

Of course I believe in equal rights, but in a democracy those rights must be legislated, and currently they have not been, but as it is a democracy, they have the right to push for change.

To qualify what I said in my earlier post, I am not opposed to a group, such as the disabled, being treated equally, but NOT BETTER THAN the bulk of the population, and when they have a win, they are euphoric, think they run the world, and go for more. Where does it stop?

It stops when everyone has equal rights. No-one is asking to be to be treated better than anyone else. We just want to be treated the same as everyone else as a matter of course rather than as a gift bestowed from above by people like you.

No gifts are bestowed by 'people like me'. I have NOTHING to do with it,and I find the statement, ridiculous, gratuitous and offensive.

It doesn't stop when everybody has 'equal' rights, because a group, or spokesman for that group, then wants more, and the leap frogging starts all over again. There are some things that some groups/people just can't. and will never have, and suggesting that they can is about as silly as a line I heard recently, and that was that a government should have no secrets from its citizens. Of course they must, and the average punter, complete idiot that he is, has no need to know much of what a government is doing.

The government of the day legislates, and currently, the law states, that marriage is between a man and a woman. Until that changes, that's the way it is, and I will have nothing to do with that change. I won't be bestowing gifts......except in 12 days time, at Christmas.

I gather you're a homosexual person from your pitch, and the use of 'we'. I hold no animosity against you for that, and I wish you luck in your campaign.

Edited December 12, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[anon8]

My opinion:

Both sides should compromise on civil unions. Same sex couples get legal recognition and benefits, the religionists and traditionalists keep their sanctity of marriage.

No no no.

If gay peeps in Australia want to get married, they should be able to, and same laws apply to them.

No compromise, thank you!

If gay peeps there want to go through the charade and have 'sanctity' of marriage, gay couples should be able to do this as well.

Non of this civil union compromise. We are equal. We have same rights as straights, period.

Why on earth would Aussie gay peeps want to compromise!?

[anon8]

Why do they have to get married, can't they live in a defacto relationship, or just live together.

Why, you ask? Cos they are equal members of Australian society, thats why.

Why, you ask?

They dont have to give you a reason. It is basic human right!

[F4UCorsair]

My opinion:

Both sides should compromise on civil unions. Same sex couples get legal recognition and benefits, the religionists and traditionalists keep their sanctity of marriage.

No no no.

If gay peeps in Australia want to get married, they should be able to, and same laws apply to them.

No compromise, thank you!

If gay peeps there want to go through the charade and have 'sanctity' of marriage, gay couples should be able to do this as well.

Non of this civil union compromise. We are equal. We have same rights as straights, period.

Why on earth would Aussie gay peeps want to compromise!?

I don't often say somebody is wrong, but you are wrong!

You do not currently have the same rights as heterosexual couples, and that is what all this is about. The law states that marriage is between a man and a woman, and that is what the homosexual groups are trying to change. Until then, you do not have the same rights.

I won't engage in bush lawyerism and say it's 'basic human rights' that any two people are permitted to marry. Example: Close relatives are not permitted to marry; that's the law, and for good reasons. What about their human rights to marry? Those rights don't supersede the law, just as homosexual couples 'right to marry', as a 'basic human right' don't supersede the law. The law is the law, is the law, is the law. Until the law changes, that's the way it is.

I do not have the same rights as a politician, i.e., to rort my travel allowances and suffer no penalty. What can I do about it? Nothing!! Do I complain and email politicians? Of course. Does anything change? No!!

What is a 'peep', incidentally?

Edited December 13, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[anon8]

There are some things that some groups/people just can't. and will never have

You are so wrong, my friend.

We will have the same rights as you, and you will see it happen in your lifetime.

Couple of years from now, and you will see us being equal to you, and having all the same rights.

[F4UCorsair]

There are some things that some groups/people just can't. and will never have

You are so wrong, my friend.

We will have the same rights as you, and you will see it happen in your lifetime.

Couple of years from now, and you will see us being equal to you, and having all the same rights.

I agree with you, and when I say 'can't have', I mean that they can't have them right now!

The point I make, and some are missing, is that currently, homosexuals don't have the right to marry because it is ILLEGAL. The law will change, certainly in my lifetime, and possibly within a few years, but until it changes, you do not have the same rights.

I'm not saying I don't want you to have the same rights, or that I dislike you. All I'm saying is that the law must change to permit it to happen, and until that happens, you do not have the same rights. End of story.

Edited December 13, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[anon8]

You do not currently have the same rights as heterosexual couples..

Oh, I know.

Give it couple of years, and we WILL have same rights as you, heterosexuals.

You do realize perhaps, we are people too, citizens, no less than you! You soon will see current discriminaying laws only being in history books.

Peeps = people.. Its an internet thing, not even a gay thing, so no need for you to get upset.

[F4UCorsair]

You do not currently have the same rights as heterosexual couples..

Oh, I know.

Give it couple of years, and we WILL have same rights as you, heterosexuals.

You do realize perhaps, we are people too, citizens, no less than you! You soon will see current discriminaying laws only being in history books.

Peeps = people.. Its an internet thing, not even a gay thing, so no need for you to get upset.

You misread me. Please read my earlier posts. I don't dislike you, even have some good friends who are homosexual, and like them a lot, worked with many, and wouldn't get upset even if 'peeps' was a gay 'thing'.

Of course you are people, the same as us heterosexuals, but right now, people who don't have the legal right to marry.

My position is no more than I have stated. Those who contend that you have the same rights are wrong. Until the law changes, you do not have the same rights, but I agree that, rightly or wrongly, it will change. How many times do I have to say it?? Bumping your gums about the same rights is just plain futile.

Before anybody bothers to get on their soapbox over my liking Kuhn Paen's post above, I like it because it's amusing, no more and no less.

Edited December 13, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[anon8]

Life is not equal, and it will always be thus.

No, my friend! Life is equal. In Western society, all people are equal. Some stuff takes time to be sorted out, sure.

It will not always be unequal, as you say.

There are some ancient laws that discriminate one group or another, but this is changing now rapidly in the West.

In few years, my marriage to another man, will be equal to your straight marriage.

Dont feel threatend, your straight marriage will still be valid. Also, gay marriage wont be legislated as mandatory for straight people.

You will not be forced by State to marry another man. You will be able to keep your current marriage.

Gay marriage will not become mandatory for every male in Australia.

I hope this is good news for you! You will able to continue your straight lifestyle! And we, gay men, will be able to marry who we wish, same rights you are enjoying right now.

[anon8]

Bumping your gums about the same rights is just plain futile.

How could you possibly not see which way tide is turning?

You can't be this naive!

You truly believe we will never be equal to straight peeps? You can't be serious.

I think you are not serious here. There's no way anybody could be this limited.

[F4UCorsair]

Life is not equal, and it will always be thus.

No, my friend! Life is equal. In Western society, all people are equal. Some stuff takes time to be sorted out, sure.

It will not always be unequal, as you say.

There are some ancient laws that discriminate one group or another, but this is changing now rapidly in the West.

In few years, my marriage to another man, will be equal to your straight marriage.

Dont feel threatend, your straight marriage will still be valid. Also, gay marriage wont be legislated as mandatory for straight people.

You will not be forced by State to marry another man. You will be able to keep your current marriage.

Gay marriage will not become mandatory for every male in Australia.

I hope this is good news for you! You will able to continue your straight lifestyle! And we, gay men, will be able to marry who we wish, same rights you are enjoying right now.

What are you smoking man???

You're off at a tangent, and it appears have read NOTHING I've posted.

I agree it will change, I agree it will be seen as an equal union, I don't feel threatened, I don't believe I'll be forced by the state to marry another man, I don't believe it will be mandatory, I don't believe I will be able to keep my current marriage (not currently married!!!) [that's a joke].

You really have to read and comprehend. There are online courses available.

[F4UCorsair]

Life is not equal, and it will always be thus.

No, my friend! Life is equal. In Western society, all people are equal. Some stuff takes time to be sorted out, sure.

It will not always be unequal, as you say.

There are some ancient laws that discriminate one group or another, but this is changing now rapidly in the West.

In few years, my marriage to another man, will be equal to your straight marriage.

Dont feel threatend, your straight marriage will still be valid. Also, gay marriage wont be legislated as mandatory for straight people.

You will not be forced by State to marry another man. You will be able to keep your current marriage.

Gay marriage will not become mandatory for every male in Australia.

I hope this is good news for you! You will able to continue your straight lifestyle! And we, gay men, will be able to marry who we wish, same rights you are enjoying right now.

valgehiir, you worry me with your writings.

I say 'life is not equal'. You say 'In western society, all people are equal' thereby conceding that life is not equal in other than western society!!!

I did not specify where it wasn't equal. I said 'Life is not equal'. Bumping your gums about life being equal is just plain futile, because even you admit that in other than western society it is not equal. It's obviously not in western society either, for reasons I've stated, and whole lot of reasons I haven't stated, but there is change on the way.

Please read my posts, and comprehend, before responding.

This is going nowhere because I'm responding to the same words, so with one last comment, which I've made several times already, but obviously not comprehended by some, I'm out.

Currently it is not legal for homosexuals to marry in Australia. Legislation must change for it to be so, but until it does, homosexuals do not have the same rights as heterosexuals, and to contend otherwise is delusional. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

Edited December 13, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[craigt3365]

A post containing an altered quote has been removed from view. Per forum rules:

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[anon8]

I was listening to a gay on talkback radio yesterday, and he said it was his legal right to marry his bf, so that means I lave a legal right to kill somebody or rob a bank?? Marriage between same sexes is STILL ILLEGAL!!!

Yes!

In civilized society that should be his legal right.

I doubt he said it is his legal right to marry a man now. Perhaps for dramatic effect you slightly altered what the caller said.

Of course it should be his legal right to marry another man. All of Western society is moving towards that.

What is amusing in your post, is that you are comparing this to murder, you draw a paralel with something that is a one of the serious crime anywhere in the world, and you bring it up in context of gay marriage??

Brother, if you simply hate, be a man, come out and say it! Or are you a coward, drawing parallels between a marriage between people who love each other, and murder.

Im now done talking to you.

[onni4me]

I was listening to a gay on talkback radio yesterday, and he said it was his legal right to marry his bf, so that means I lave a legal right to kill somebody or rob a bank?? Marriage between same sexes is STILL ILLEGAL!!!

Why don't you come up with comparing gays with pedophiles or such? It would nicely underline what kind of thinking you represent...

I have trouble understanding what the government does in anybody's bedroom? If talking people of legal age, that is. Why governments take to their duties to determine what part of population has rights and the other doesn't?

You nicely show the attitude that is so prevalent. If we give them same rights, what will happen next? They will marry kids? They will marry pigs? They will start killing people? I say, you are so wrong. Your argument is known as slippery slope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

And you fit well to what Orwell wrote in his book:

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

[anon8]

F4UCorsair,

Ok 1 last line.

I hope you see the day of 1st marriage between 2 men, or 2 girls on live tv, in Australia.

Wont be long, gonna happen soon!

[F4UCorsair]

F4UCorsair,

Ok 1 last line.

I hope you see the day of 1st marriage between 2 men, or 2 girls on live tv, in Australia.

Wont be long, gonna happen soon!

I've already seen it, a politician and his partner last weekend outside the Federal Parliament at 12./30 am!! The law was subsequently overturned, so it's not legal.

I acknowledge it will change, as surely as the laws on voluntary euthanasia will change. We're on the same page, but some/you have missed the entire point I've made, and I won't bother to make it again. I've highlighted it several times already.

Good luck.

[godden]

adults can think for their selves, what they do is for them to decide,so long as no children involved carry on.

[ToddWeston]

adults can think for their selves, what they do is for them to decide,so long as no children involved carry on.

No children ? as in marrying a child ?

[F4UCorsair]

I was listening to a gay on talkback radio yesterday, and he said it was his legal right to marry his bf, so that means I lave a legal right to kill somebody or rob a bank?? Marriage between same sexes is STILL ILLEGAL!!!

Why don't you come up with comparing gays with pedophiles or such? It would nicely underline what kind of thinking you represent...

I have trouble understanding what the government does in anybody's bedroom? If talking people of legal age, that is. Why governments take to their duties to determine what part of population has rights and the other doesn't?

You nicely show the attitude that is so prevalent. If we give them same rights, what will happen next? They will marry kids? They will marry pigs? They will start killing people? I say, you are so wrong. Your argument is known as slippery slope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

And you fit well to what Orwell wrote in his book:

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

You have missed the entire point I made. I won't make it again.

You must surely be in the lowest 1% of the intellectual spectrum to write what you have just written. I'm sorry I have to be the one to say that, but I can think of no other explanation.

Edited December 13, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[onni4me]

You have missed the entire point I made. I won't make it again.

You must surely be in the lowest 1% of the intellectual spectrum to write what you have just written. I'm sorry I have to be the one to say that, but I can think of no other explanation.

Another example of argument gone wrong...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

"Personal attacks"

An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"^[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.^[2]Ad hominem reasoning is normally categorized as an informal fallacy, more precisely as a genetic fallacy, a subcategory of fallacies of irrelevance.

[F4UCorsair]

It's not a personal attack, but a statement of fact, therefore not irrelevant.

How anybody with an IQ even into double figures, could possibly deduce anything of what he contends from what I've written, is quite beyond me.

Edited December 13, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[BlackJack]

the funny thing about most Australian Laws is that they are largely invalid

Australia comes under the rule of common law as we are still under the Commonwealth ie the UK - see our constitution on Wiki

This has not changed and cannot be changed without a referendum by the people to change it.

Several attempts have been made however they failed.

Not deterred, a previous ruling Australian Government changed a few things around and then declared that the commonwealth of Australia becomes the Australian Government - illegal as the referendum was lost.

If you bother to check the Australian Government and Tax office are listed on the stock exchange of the USA - check the SEC listing. In other words the whole thing is a sham!

All rather bizarre eh?

The bottom line is that our constitution (from the Magna Carta) does not have a Bill of Rights and many Judges have argued that this is the problem -

Former Chief Justice Sir Anthony Mason, for example, wrote in 1997:

Australia's adoption of a Bill of Rights would bring Australia in from the cold, so to speak, and make directly applicable the human rights jurisprudence which has developed internationally and elsewhere. That is an important consideration in that our isolation from that jurisprudence means that we do not have what is a vital component of other constitutional and legal systems, a component which has a significant impact on culture and thought, and is an important ingredient in the emerging world order that is reducing the effective choices open to the nation state.

[13]

[F4UCorsair]

Blackjack said, "the funny thing about most Australian Laws is that they are largely invalid".

If they were invalid, even a law student would be onto it and winning. Obviously that which is left, after the 'largely invalid' part, is enough to uphold the laws of the land. This is all bush lawyer stuff.

Are you able to give me the codes used by the Australian government and tax office so I can locate them on the US stock exchange. They may even be a worthy buy.

My partner is a lawyer, so I'll put it to her tonight, and I know what she'll say without even asking. It is garbage.

I recall some years ago when work colleagues, in collusion with a lame brained lawyer somebody met in the pub, claimed that taxation was unlawful. That got no further than a visit to a reputable law firm. They said they'd take it on, 100 grand in the trust account up front, and they'd fight the good fight, but there was NO chance of winning.

Edited December 13, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[Rorri]

I don't believe the dribble I see on this forum, we have one person saying Australia is a "fascist" nation, load of rot, you need to learn what fascism is and another saying it's becoming a communist state...grow up people. This story is about a judgement from the High Court, this courts responsibility is to interpret the law, not make, or change, it. Anyone here with a problem with the law needs to approach the Australian Government, I might add a democratically elected government, and partition the law makers to change the law not bitch on here about the High Courts ruling.

[steven100]

Australia has lost the plot on many issues, that's why I won't live there full time anymore, its regulated to the hilt ... they need to grow up .

Sent from my TR736 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[anon8]

I don't believe the dribble I see on this forum..

Anyone here with a problem with the law needs to approach the Australian Government, I might add a democratically elected government, and partition the law makers to change the law not bitch on here about the High Courts ruling.

We will bitch about this discriminating, backwards ruling, as long as this thread is open.

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[BeforeTigers]

Childish, superstitious, cowardly, immature fascists.

aka: People that spend any time at all worrying about what other people do with their bodies when you're not in the room.

You've missed the point entirely.

It's not a matter of 'what other people do with their bodies when you're not in the room'.......that's just homosexuality, something to which I'm not opposed, not for me, but I don't deny others the right to do what they choose.

What is happening here is an attempt to change the law to permit same sex marriage, and currently the law states that marriage is between a man and a woman, not another man who thinks he is/pretends to be a woman.

I was listening to a gay on talkback radio yesterday, and he said it was his legal right to marry his bf, so that means I lave a legal right to kill somebody or rob a bank?? Marriage between same sexes is STILL ILLEGAL!!!

Currently the law DOES NOT permit same sex marriage, and in a democracy, that change must be legislated. The process has been subject of rigorous debate, or as is the current politicians cliche, robust debate, and it's failed the get over the hurdle. No doubt that gays will continue the fight.

I see it as point scoring by a minority group. They can have civil unions, and all the rights that go with that, defacto unions, or just plain live together, have kids through surrogate mothers, but they want to push a point that I see as achieving very little.

We've seen this point scoring by other minority groups over the years, such as the disabled. I don't think anybody would deny the disabled a bit of extra help, but for the movement to suggest that EVERY retail outlet should have a ramp so they can access the premises is a bit silly, yet that's what's happening. I've seen small business owners say they don't want to spend three grand on a ramp, and then widen the aisles in their shop for wheelchair access, in the off chance that they may recover some of it from disabled people. They'd prefer to forego that tiny volume of business and not make the changes.

Jingthing, my observation is that they currently have the same rights through mechanisms such as those above, just not the name 'marriage'.

The problem with minority groups is that they have a small win, they want more, and they then feel they can start dictating the terms to the bulk of the population. All these groups have a leader/spokesperson, and he/she's usually running an agenda, and seeking his/her 15 minutes of fame, basking in the limelight.

We haven't seen the backside of this issue yet. Is there a pun in there??

I've missed the point?

Dude, really?

You write in complete sentences. You know how to use the internet. You seem like an otherwise competent and capable human. Can you really believe that loony S you just said?

Civil rights must be legislated?

Equality under the law is subject to debate?

Equating gay marriage to murder?

You cannot possibly believe all of those things you just said. There's an angle here. There's a missing piece. No intelligent adult human can miss the dam_n point by such a massive margin... no child could miss the point as badly as you just have. It's embarrassing.

Go clean yourself up, listen to an episode or two of the Savage Lovecast on iTunes, and report back in the morning.

Edited December 13, 2013 by BeforeTigers