Visa to Uk - travelling from Ireland

[CiaranO]

Myself and my Thai wife will be travelling to Ireland this June. (i am an Irish Citizen). The visa is already sorted. We both live here in Thailand btw.

We would like to visit London on our trip.

Is it a normal tourist visa we should apply for her? Our trip will be about 4 days max.

[Jay Sata]

I understand she'll have to apply in Thailand.

As you're an Irish citizen why not get her a spouse visa for the Republic?

If she had one then you can apply in Dublin.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Jay Sata

[CiaranO]

I already have her short stay visa for our trip next year. we will travel to Dublin for 2 weeks but would like to maybe go to London for a few days.

Basically is it a tourist visa we apply for or an EEA permit?

[7by7]

As she will be travelling with you, an EEA national and her spouse, then she can apply for an EEA Family Permit.

Strictly speaking, as you are travelling together all she needs to do is satisfy UK immigration on arrival in the UK that she is travelling with you and is your spouse. However, as the family permit is quick, easy and free then I recommend getting one as it will save possible delays and hassles at UK immigration.

She applies in her country of residence; Thailand.

But if you want to obtain an Irish spouse visa for her and then try and convince the British embassy in Dublin that you and she live in Ireland; that's up to you!

What's the difference in cost between an Irish visit visa and an Irish spouse visa?

[Jay Sata]

I'd recommend anyone holding an Irish passport or rights to one to take advantage while the deal is here at a bargain price.

How much does an Irish Visa application cost?

The non-refundable Visa Application Processing Fees apply as follows:

SINGLE-JOURNEY €60.00

MULTIPLE-JOURNEY €100.00

TRANSIT €25.00

Postal or courier charges may also be levied in some cases and information in this regard, and on the fee in your local currency, is available from your local Embassy, Consulate or Visa Office.

Some applicants are not required to pay a fee. This includes visa-required spouses and certain family members of EEA citizens (including Irish nationals) provided that proof of the relationship is provided with the application.

In addition applicants from some countries are not required to pay a fee. As this changes from time to time information in this regard should be sought from your local Embassy, Consulate or Visa Office.
Please note that the Visa fee is an administration fee which covers the cost of processing your application. This fee cannot be refunded if your application is refused or withdrawn.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP08000047

As for the question from 7by7

But if you want to obtain an Irish spouse visa for her and then try and convince the British embassy in Dublin that you and she live in Ireland; that's up to you!

Once you have an Irish spouse visa there is no need to 'convince' the UK embassy in Dublin you live in Ireland. You are free to go anywhere in Europe with your Irish passport holder partner.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Jay Sata

[7by7]

Why would any one who "holds an Irish passport or rights to one" want or need to "take advantage" of any "deal" on Irish visa fees? Irish passport holders don't need a visa to enter Ireland!

Once again you have amply demonstrated that your knowledge is woefully inadequate.

The lady in question is already the spouse of an EEA citizen; she can already travel within Europe with him, but as I explained in my previous it's simpler to get the relevant visa/permit in advance.

Only after she has permanent residence of an EEA country would she not need to show she is the spouse of an EEA national, either at the border or in advance to obtain a visa or entry permit, and be able to travel freely within the EEA.

How long after obtaining a spouse visa does the Irish government grant PR?

What are the residency requirements; i.e. would they grant it to someone who lives in Thailand, as the OP and his wife do? Doubt it.

[Jay Sata]

I'm afraid you are seeing the Irish system through the eyes of a UK citizen.

Ireland has a more relaxed and benevolent attitude to spouse/partner applications. It's not going to cost a fortune or is it complicated. Once your spouse has entered the Republic then you are free to come and go as much as you like. The only residency qualification is that required to get an Irish passport which I have already posted.

Here is the information you have asked for.

Visa Fees (or lack of them)

NON-REFUNDABLE VISA APPLICATION PROCESSING FEES:

SINGLE-JOURNEY 60.00

MULTIPLE-JOURNEY 100.00 [1 ]

TRANSIT 25.00

In certain circumstances a further administrative fee may be payable to the Irish Embassy or Consulate.

Postal or courier charges may also be levied in some cases and information in this regard, and on the fee in your local currency, is available from your local Irish Embassy, Consulate or Visa Office.

Some applicants are not required to pay a fee. This includes visa-required spouses and certain family members of EEA citizens (including Irish nationals) provided that proof of the relationship is submitted with the application.

In addition, applicants from some countries are not required to pay a fee. As this changes from time to time information in this regard should be sought from your local Irish Embassy, Consulate or Visa Office. Fuller information on visa fee exemptions can be viewed on the website of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade www.foreignaffairs.gov.ie

Please note that the Visa fee is an administration fee which covers the cost of processing your application. This fee cannot be refunded if your application is refused or withdrawn.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Jay Sata

[7by7]

Read my posts again.

I am not commenting on the Irish visa system, I am talking about the EEA freedom of movement regulations.

This is because the OP is not asking about Irish visas; he's asking about travelling to the UK.

It matters not how relaxed and benevolent the Irish immigration regime is; if the OP's spouse wants to travel anywhere else in the EEA as the spouse of an EEA national then they have to satisfy the EEA regulations, not the Irish ones.

Until the non EEA national family member of an EEA national has PR in one EEA state they can only take advantage of the EEA freedom of movement regulations if travelling with or to join their EEA national spouse.

So, for the OP's wife to travel freely within the EEA obtaining an Irish spouse visa would not satisfy the requirement unless it immediately meant she had PR in Ireland.

I ask you again:

How long after obtaining a spouse visa does the Irish government grant PR?

What are the residency requirements for Irish PR; i.e. would they grant it to someone who lives in Thailand, as the OP and his wife do?

Care to answer the actual questions this time?

[Jay Sata]

In some respects Ireland is a bit like Israel in that it welcomes Irish Diaspora.

That includes the family.

No minimum earnings requirements (unlike the UK £18600) you just need to prove you can support your wife and family in Ireland. No huge visa or application fees.In fact your spouse pays nothing to process the paperwork.

'What are the residency requirements for Irish PR; i.e. would they grant it to someone who lives in Thailand, as the OP and his wife do?'

Yes. As long as the Eire passport holder can prove he will not access public funds. Of course Ireland is a country where rules are bent and in fact a family who initially supported themselves would not be denied public funding if their circumstances changed.

By 'Irish PR' I assume you are referring to the right to live and work in Eire.Once you're in you are in.None of the palaver the UK imposes.

Once in the Republic there is no border control to the six counties so the OP can travel with is wife to Belfast which is in the UK. As there is no border control between England Scotland and Wales there can be no dispute regarding her right to enter the mainland.

Just go and read all the info on the INIS website.

[CiaranO]

Thanks for all the answers.

We will apply for EEA Permit as suggested by 7by7. It seems the easiest option since we already have her tourist visa sorted.

Just one thing - I doubt very much if the Irish government would grant PR to my wife if she as living in Thailand. I believe you must be living in Ireland for a certain period of time to receive this.

[7by7]

Indeed, Ciaran.

Mr. Sata, PR stands for Permanent Residence. To take full advantage of the EEA freedom of movement regulations a non EEA national must have a residence card issued by an EEA state showing that they have PR in that state.

I find it very difficult to believe that the Irish government have 'none of the palaver the UK imposes' in order to get PR. Are you saying that all someone has to do to get PR in Ireland is marry an Irish citizen, apply for it, get it and then be free to divorce that Irish citizen yet retain their PR?

All without spending any time in Ireland at all, if your post above is to be believed!

The INIS website seems even more difficult to navigate around for the uninitiated than the UKBA one, and I have not been able to find the answers there.

As you are so knowledgeable, maybe you will honour us by providing a link to the relevant information?

Yet again you are advising people to do something illegal; cross from the RoI into the UK, or vice versa, without a visa. Whether you go from North to South or South to North, if you require a visa for either country then you are entering that country illegally if you do so without one.

If wanting to travel to Great Britain then as carriers from NI to the rest of the UK, whether air or sea, require some form of photo ID from passengers, this is certain to be discovered when the illegal entrant attempts to board plane or ferry.

Of course, as those who have read the news will know, people form certain countries, including Thailand, who hold a UK visa do not need a visa to enter the Republic as visitors; but it doesn't work the other way.

[Jay Sata]

I've posted the link and explained the Irish government are more sympathetic to keeping a husband with his wife and vice versa. The site is easy to navigate and you'll see they do not impose ANY visa fees for a spouse.

'The INIS website seems even more difficult to navigate around for the uninitiated than the UKBA one, and I have not been able to find the answers there.'

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU%20Treaty%20Rights

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000024

I'm sure you are capable of wending your way through it but you won't find answers to disprove what I have already posted. As long as you can illustrate you're in a genuine relationship there is no 'Life In Ireland' or language tests.

Regarding the question on staying in the Republic of Eire if the marriage breaks down...

'7.) What are the conditions of my permission granted?

The permission is granted on the basis of genuine evidence of a valid and genuine marriage/civil partnership and of joint residence.

Any misinformation given during the application process will result in the application being refused.

There are no rights of retention of residence in the event of separation/divorce.

Successful applicants do not have an automatic right to family reunification.

8.) What happens if I separate from my Irish spouse/civil partner during the period of registration/permission afforded to me?

You should note that any change of circumstances which would affect the accuracy of your registration should be notified to your Registration Officer within 7 days of such change of circumstances.

You will need to write to the Spouse of Irish National Unit, Immigration Services Section, INIS, 13/14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2 at least 3 months prior to the expiry of your current registration/permission to remain in State outlining the circumstances surrounding your separation preventing you from renewing your registration in order for the renewal of your application for registration/permission to remain in the State to be considered. Please ensure that you include copies of your national passport containing your registration stamp and Certificate of Registration.

Can I remind you that Ireland has a long history of mass emigration so migrants are still welcome unlike the UK where we are at bursting point.

'Yet again you are advising people to do something illegal; cross from the RoI into the UK, or vice versa, without a visa. Whether you go from North to South or South to North, if you require a visa for either country then you are entering that country illegally if you do so without one.'

As I've said before there is no border and free movement between north and south. If you are legal in the north then you can cross to the south without a visa hence the recent change in the law.It might shock you that some border residents take advantage of fuel prices etc by crossing on a regular basis. Alcohol is cheaper north of the border.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Jay Sata

[7by7]

I am not looking to disprove anything; I am looking for the information you didn't provide!

Your first link is about EU nationals moving to the RoI, so is irrelevant to this topic.

From your second link

Marriage to an Irish national does not confer an automatic right of residence in the State. A non EEA national who wishes to reside in the State on the basis of their marriage to an Irish national must make an application for permission to remain in the State.

6.) What happens if my application is approved?
•Successful applicants may be granted permission to reside in the State for an initial period of 12 months.
•The non EEA national spouse/civil partner may be granted Stamp 4 which will allow him/her to reside and work in the State without the requirement of a Work Permit.
•The applicant and his/her Irish national spouse/civil partner will be required to attend at their local Registration office to be registered as resident in the State on the basis of being the Spouse of an Irish National or the Civil Partner of an Irish national.
•Details in respect of registration and renewal of registration will be approved in correspondence issued by the Spouse of Irish National Unit.

Which does not say that a non resident, such as the OP's wife, can have a resident stamp.

If there is anything anywhere on any Irish government site which says the OP can obtain a resident's stamp or card for his wife even though they live in Thailand, produce it.

If you can't do so; then at least be a man and admit that you were wrong.

If you can do so, then I will obviously accept that you are right.

As for you oft repeated assertion that travel between the Republic and the UK is easy for everyone; regardless of whether or not the hold a visa:

There are indeed virtually no border controls between Northern Ireland and the Republic, though I am reliably informed that random checks are carried out.

However this does not mean that visa nationals of either country can legally pass between the two countries; they can't.

From the Irish embassy in London

A separate visa is required for holders of UK visas "not covered by the Visa Waiver Programme" who wish to travel to the Republic of Ireland, including UK visa holders resident in Northern Ireland. You should not attempt to travel to Ireland from any part of Great Britain and Northern Ireland without a valid Irish visa. If you attempt to do so, you may be stopped on arrival, refused entry and/or have a visa warning entered on your passport.

From the UKBA

You told us that
you are a national of Thailand.
you are coming to UK to Visit.
you are normally and legally living in Ireland.
If you are coming to the UK for a short stay as a visitor, you must obtain a visa before you travel here.

You are giving bad and incorrect 'advice' which, if followed, could cause immense difficulties; up to and including arrest, detention and deportation for illegal entry and a ban, for the UK at least, from applying for another visit visa for 10 years.

You have been corrected on this bad advice many times, yet you still insist that you are right and the INIS and UKBA are wrong! Why?

Of course citizens of the Republic can enter Northern Ireland or any other part of the UK without a visa and vice versa; not only have the UK and the RoI maintained a common travel area for their citizens for many years, they are both EU states!

Edited December 15, 2013 by 7by7

[Jay Sata]

I'm sorry but I'm not going to get in to some sort of pedantic dispute with you. I'm an Irish citizen and was last in Dublin a week ago. I have travelled the Republic through all of the 26 counties and know how the system works.

Have you ever been to Eire?

I try to post information for the benefit of others on here and not to get in to brawls with experts who know

migration law inside out.

Suffice to say anyone with a parent or grandparent born in Eire or Northern Ireland can save a fortune using their ancestry.

[7by7]

It is not a matter of pedantry, it is a matter not giving people bad advice.

You say that the spouse of an Irish citizen can have PR in Ireland when the couple live outside Ireland.

If this is possible, it is important news; so important that it needs official confirmation.

I searched for that confirmation and couldn't find it. As you were so insistent that you were correct, I asked you for it.

Have you provided it? No, you still refuse to do so.

Therefore the only safe conclusion is that such confirmation does not exists and you are, yet again, wrong.

The INIS say that people who require a visa for Ireland cannot legally travel from North to South without one; yet you insist that they can.

UKV&I say that people who require a visa for the UK cannot legally travel from South to North without one; yet you insist that they can.

You claim to be Irish, you claim to have been in Dublin recently, you claim to have travelled extensively throughout Ireland.

Even if these claims are true; it obviously does not mean you are an expert in Irish or UK immigration law. Indeed, the many contradictions between what you say and what INIS and UKV&I say proves that you are actually the opposite!

You obviously enjoy coming on the 'big I AM' on internet forums. In other forums it doesn't really matter; but on an immigration forum it does.

People come here for advice which will have a serious effect on their and their families future lives together.

Those of us who try and give that advice have a moral duty, I believe, to ensure that the advice we give is as accurate as possible; which is why I often back my advice up with a link to an official source.

You consistently give ill informed, poor and often completely wrong advice which could lead to considerable loss and hardship for anyone unfortunate enough to follow it.

We all get it wrong sometimes. If I or any of the other regular contributors here are challenged as to the accuracy of our advice, we check our facts again and then either use the appropriate links to confirm what we said or withdraw our wrong advice and apologise.

You, on the other hand, get it wrong nearly every time, yet when challenged produce posts such as the above in feeble attempts to justify yourself.

Edited December 16, 2013 by 7by7

[CiaranO]

Thanks7 by 7 for your advice etc.

I emailed the VFS to confirm what documents i need to submit etc.

Received file attached back.

I presume from a lot of research what i need to submit is

Her passport and copy of mine

Marriage Certificate with English translation only - no need for MFA Certification?

A letter from me saying we will be travelling together and i will be accompanying her. We are only going to London for 4 days.

I think thats it on the paperwork but the file attached seems to suggest more.

I presume i apply to VFS Global and will make an appointment in Bangkok for her to submit application?

Is thee anything else i am missing?

eea-family-permit.pdf

[7by7]

The supporting document guide you've been sent is mainly for those using the EEA rules to live in the UK rather than visit.

What you suggest should be fine, but maybe a bank statement to show you can afford the visit and a note of where you will be staying as this could avoid delay.

For the UK MFA certification of translations is not required, just certification by the translator.

Yes, she applies via VFS.

[theoldgit]

Two posts removed, please don't this argument spoil it for the people that come her for important advice.

Please don't post inaccurate advice, I will remove what I spot but would ask if inaccurate advice continues to be published members hit the report button, and I will deal with.