How to sell land in tambon Kut Din Jee prov Nong Bua Lamphu?

[tGENTeneeRke]

My Thai wife is "owner" from 6 rai (=1 hectare) farmland. The electricity company will connect that land soon,because extension from the poles is already ordered. The land is located directly on a village road. Land is now used by a family member for contract farming(seed production for export). We made a road inside the land to make access for pick up truck easy. Irrigation is good organised.There is a fish pound with a diameter from 20 meter. There is also a wooden hut,because during some period from the production,somebody has to sleep in the farm. My wife has not a "chanod" buth a socalled leasing contract for 20 years, signed by the village headman and 3 witness. We paid 160.000B in 2009.

The lady who "owned" the land before my wife,has 6 rai more on the backside from "our" land. The papers from that part of the land are in Farmers Bank in Kut Din Jee, because she did not pay back her bank loan.

Is it wise to go to the Farmers Bank and ask if they want to sell our land? Is it wise to ask them what is the value from the land?

Advice is welcome!

[fatfather]

Who is owner of the land? Are you going to sell leased land?

Fatfather

[PattayaPhom]

The land on the backside is what you want to buy?

[tGENTeneeRke]

In that village there is not a paper of property available. Thats what the village headman and all witness said. The "new owner" has to pay for the right to use the land during 20 years. After that time the contract has to be renewed. The village headman says it is "kings land", that is why one can only pay for a contract to have the right to use. That is the long time tradition,all confirmed.

The lady who "owns" the backside land has also only a contract. That contract is now in the Farmers Bank because she had to give that "contract (leasing) paper" to the bank because she can not pay back a loan to the Farmers Bank.

I do not want to buy any land. I only want to sell the "contract that gives the right during 20 years to use the land".In other words, just like my wife did in 2009, now we want to look for somebody who wants to buy that "contract". Also via the same traditional way confirmed by the village headman and the witness.

Let me repeat my first question: is it wise to go to the involved Farmers Bank and ask them for information or mediation?

Thank you both for your reaction PattayaPhom and fatfather!

Edited December 16, 2013 by tGENTeneeRke

[khwaibah]

In that village there is not a paper of property available. Thats what the village headman and all witness said. The "new owner" has to pay for the right to use the land during 20 years. After that time the contract has to be renewed. The village headman says it is "kings land", that is why one can only pay for a contract to have the right to use. That is the long time tradition,all confirmed.

The lady who "owns" the backside land has also only a contract. That contract is now in the Farmers Bank because she had to give that "contract (leasing) paper" to the bank because she can not pay back a loan to the Farmers Bank.

I do not want to buy any land. I only want to sell the "contract that gives the right during 20 years to use the land".In other words, just like my wife did in 2009, now we want to look for somebody who wants to buy that "contract". Also via the same traditional way confirmed by the village headman and the witness.

Let me repeat my first question: is it wise to go to the involved Farmers Bank and ask them for information or mediation?

Thank you both for your reaction PattayaPhom and fatfather!

Not for mediation they would be useless but to find out if your wife's partial is free of leans.

[tGENTeneeRke]

In that village there is not a paper of property available. Thats what the village headman and all witness said. The "new owner" has to pay for the right to use the land during 20 years. After that time the contract has to be renewed. The village headman says it is "kings land", that is why one can only pay for a contract to have the right to use. That is the long time tradition,all confirmed.

The lady who "owns" the backside land has also only a contract. That contract is now in the Farmers Bank because she had to give that "contract (leasing) paper" to the bank because she can not pay back a loan to the Farmers Bank.

I do not want to buy any land. I only want to sell the "contract that gives the right during 20 years to use the land".In other words, just like my wife did in 2009, now we want to look for somebody who wants to buy that "contract". Also via the same traditional way confirmed by the village headman and the witness.

Let me repeat my first question: is it wise to go to the involved Farmers Bank and ask them for information or mediation?

Thank you both for your reaction PattayaPhom and fatfather!

Not for mediation they would be useless but to find out if your wife's partial is free of leans.

Thank you khwaibah!

[tGENTeneeRke]

Is it wise to ask the village headman if he knows somebody who wants to buy that "contract"? Or is there a better way to look for a candidate to buy that "contract"?

[rgs2001uk]

Best to ask the village headman, puu yai baan.

What is grown on the land and what the income per rai per year?

Too be perferctly frank, you aint selling any land, we are talking gov't land here I presume, its illegal for it to be bought and sold.

This however being Thailand, where theres a will theres a way, you have leased land that you now wish to get rid of, thats how I read it.

The land lets say, 1000 baht per rai per year, in your case 6000 baht per year.

20 year lease = 120,000 baht, thats what it would be worth to me (if at all).

The locals with money have better things to do with the money than invest in some "dirt farm".

The local dirt farmers probably couldnt lay their hands on the 120k it would cost them to take over the lease.

The fact you mentioned about the other land being in the bank would indicate someone borrowed money against future earnings from the land that never materialised.

Would need to runs the numbers through a spreadsheet.

Edited December 16, 2013 by rgs2001uk

[tGENTeneeRke]

Best to ask the village headman, puu yai baan.

What is grown on the land and what the income per rai per year?

Too be perferctly frank, you aint selling any land, we are talking gov't land here I presume, its illegal for it to be bought and sold.

This however being Thailand, where theres a will theres a way, you have leased land that you now wish to get rid of, thats how I read it.

The land lets say, 1000 baht per rai per year, in your case 6000 baht per year.

20 year lease = 120,000 baht, thats what it would be worth to me (if at all).

The locals with money have better things to do with the money than invest in some "dirt farm".

The local dirt farmers probably couldnt lay their hands on the 120k it would cost them to take over the lease.

The fact you mentioned about the other land being in the bank would indicate someone borrowed money against future earnings from the land that never materialised.

Would need to runs the numbers through a spreadsheet.

Thank you for your answer rgs2001uk. Yes you are right,it is so called "kingsland" or "government land". Yes there is no "chanod", so the land is not our property. Yes I want to get rid of.The reason for that is that the family member who has our permission to use the land to grow crops (in this case courgettes for seed production for a Netherlands seed exporter!) says that he not makes any profit because the harvest is not good...or because the seed is from low quality...or because his wife lost the money ..or...whatever comes up in his mind). In other words, I prefer to not be involved anymore with that family member.

Of course,on the one hand, I have to admit that I was very naive(=stupid) by doing this, on the other hand this investment from 200.000B was a reserve(=savings). In that time(2009) the thinking was also that the value from this "contract" was to grow very fast,because many locals believe that the profit from the most common production (sugar cane) will be replaced by rubber trees,with higher profit. Many people from the south (with black money) came along with cash in that time and offered a double price for the "contract".

I don't know what is the actual situation because I preferred to stay away from this uncomfortable situation. We live in Nong Khai and the rest of my wives family live in Bung Khaan. So there was no need to visit Nong Bua Lamphu.

Edited December 16, 2013 by tGENTeneeRke

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^,

the best advice I can give you is write the money off and move on with your life, I wouldnt let this worthless POS interfere with my life.

Yes you took a 200k "haircut", you were one of the lucky ones, some guys get taken for millions.

I am sure you had the best of intentions when you bought the land, but you bought it for all the wrong reasons.

You mixed business and family, I will put money on there being no spreadsheet or business plan presented to you.

Heard it all before, the song remains the same, the outcome is the same, farang is out of pocket.

The locals will know the story and if you were offered anything it would be peanuts. Probably paid over the odds in the first place.

How are you going to get this POS off the land?

Will he sign the lease over to someone else?

Will he pay you anything?

Too many questions, not worth it.

Edited December 16, 2013 by rgs2001uk

[tGENTeneeRke]

^^^^^,

the best advice I can give you is write the money off and move on with your life, I wouldnt let this worthless POS interfere with my life.

Yes you took a 200k "haircut", you were one of the lucky ones, some guys get taken for millions.

I am sure you had the best of intentions when you bought the land, but you bought it for all the wrong reasons.

You mixed business and family, I will put money on there being no spreadsheet or business plan presented to you.

Heard it all before, the song remains the same, the outcome is the same, farang is out of pocket.

The locals will know the story and if you were offered anything it would be peanuts. Probably paid over the odds in the first place.

How are you going to get this POS off the land?

Will he sign the lease over to someone else?

Will he pay you anything?

Too many questions, not worth it.

Thank you for your good advice rgs2001uk!

There was indeed not something as a business plan. We only checked information from a seed exporter via contract farmers.The estimated profit would be around 5000B per rai per year. But the reality was different...

My wife will start negotiations to recuperate step by step the 40.000B we spent for seeds,fertilizers etc.

During that time, until the harvest, her relative can continue to use the land. After the (hopefully) payment, she can ask the village headman (and the 3 signing village elderly witness) to help sell the land. For sure they will ask their part...but than I am at least rid of the thing and I can recuperate a part of the investment. The Farmers Bank will not make any problem for us, because only the part of the land, that is a part of another "contract" on the backside of "our" land is in the hands of the bank.

Thank you again for your help rgs2001uk!

[tGENTeneeRke]

^^^^^,

the best advice I can give you is write the money off and move on with your life, I wouldnt let this worthless POS interfere with my life.

Yes you took a 200k "haircut", you were one of the lucky ones, some guys get taken for millions.

I am sure you had the best of intentions when you bought the land, but you bought it for all the wrong reasons.

You mixed business and family, I will put money on there being no spreadsheet or business plan presented to you.

Heard it all before, the song remains the same, the outcome is the same, farang is out of pocket.

The locals will know the story and if you were offered anything it would be peanuts. Probably paid over the odds in the first place.

How are you going to get this POS off the land?

Will he sign the lease over to someone else?

Will he pay you anything?

Too many questions, not worth it.

Thank you for your good advice rgs2001uk!

There was indeed not something as a business plan. We only checked information from a seed exporter via contract farmers.The estimated profit would be around 5000B per rai per year. But the reality was different...

My wife will start negotiations to recuperate step by step the 40.000B we spent for seeds,fertilizers etc.

During that time, until the harvest, her relative can continue to use the land. After the (hopefully) payment, she can ask the village headman (and the 3 signing village elderly witness) to help sell "the contract to use the land =160.000B". For sure they will ask their part...but than I am at least rid of the thing and I can recuperate a part of the investment. The Farmers Bank will not make any problem for us, because only the part of the land, that is a part of another "contract" on the backside of "our" land is in the hands of the bank.

Thank you again for your help rgs2001uk!