Impressions on Violence in Thailand

[bonobo]

I was watching tv last night, and there was a Thai show on some pretty horrible crimes. They showed the security cam tape of little Cartoon being led away by Nui, then a crazed guy who had just gotten of prison attacking a cop, taking away his gun, and shooting him four or five times. Another guy shot a policeman before the police opened fire and killed him. All on tape. My g/f mentioned that violence was getting worse in Thailand.

I started thinking then about various threads here in ThaiVisa. A commonly held perception seems to be that Thais embrace violence, that they have little regard for the sanctity of life when compared to western nations.

Is that a valid perception, though, or could it have something to do with the mushrooming use of security cams?

Let's start with three assumptions:

1. A high percentage of foreigners here are in an older demographic, maybe here in their retirement.

2. The proliferation of security cams has increased exponentially in recent years as had the use of smart phone video-taking.

3. When most older expats here were working back at home, security cams, and certainly smart phone video capability were not as prevalent.

Given those assumptions, could it be that these violent crimes are just getting better dissemination? I am from the US, and we have had serial killers, crazed criminals, and all of that, but the crimes that stick in my mind were the ones taped, like the youth gang who executed their hostages in a California bank when SWAT broke in. Why do I remember it? Because a news cameraman caught it all on tape.

Do we think all Brits are inherently violent because of Jack the Ripper? That all Americans are serial killers because of Ted Bundy? I don't think so, because even if we know about them, it is because we heard about them. We never saw their actual actions. Even for Thailand, how many people discussing killers mention Su Quey?

But now, seemingly every day on the news there is a video of someone getting beat up or killed. We see the actual crime. And since many of us are here in Thailand, what we see are Thai crimes, and we don't remember the same amount of such crimes while we were back in our home countries--because the video didn't exist then. Now, with security cams and with every passerby with a smart phone, the crimes are just much more likely to be recorded.

I think it is entirely possible, even probable, that there is no more violence now, that there is no more violence in Thailand than in other countries, but there could be an impression that these is more violence strictly because more of what has always existed is being caught on tape.

Just some ramblings here. I wonder what others think.

[krisb]

It's strange to me they show violent crimes and bodies on the news but blur smoking on lakhorn.

Life seems cheaper to some degree in Thailand is the way I always saw it.

[kannot]

No one cares is the real problem

[Tchooptip]

The whole world is more violent... at least more than the last 50years or so...IMHO

[mmh8]

i remember when you get the most dangerous countries to live in ratings. I think it was based on the number of murders per capita. I beleive that back in the 80s or 90s that the US and new York in particular was the most dangerious country and city to live in respetivly.

it did not mean then as it does not mean now that those people are more dangerous, just that more desperate people around, more skilled desepearte people around, more people around that can exploit locals behabviour nd make money from it at low risk to selves.

wrt the op I think the prevalence of video record on mobiles has a lot to do with this, the government feels if the plebs can record any goings on then they ought to be able to do the same thing to the plebs

[LennyW]

i think a lot of the rubbish shown on Thai soaps makes people think that this is the norm and therefore acceptable.

Pistol whippings, shootings, kidnappings, cops on the take, drug deals, hi-so's in Mercedes above reproach, etc. etc. it's all there in the Thai soaps, impressionable youngsters seem to think it is cool to emulate their heros on tv, and i say that is the root of the problem.

[lostmebike]

i think a lot of the rubbish shown on Thai soaps makes people think that this is the norm and therefore acceptable.

Pistol whippings, shootings, kidnappings, cops on the take, drug deals, hi-so's in Mercedes above reproach, etc. etc. it's all there in the Thai soaps, impressionable youngsters seem to think it is cool to emulate their heros on tv, and i say that is the root of the problem.

Back home I would have scoffed at the idea of TV influencing society in such a way but when you see most Thais glued, open-mouthed in front of the box at 'drama' time, I have to agree. I think you may have a point.

[Costas2008]

Tchooptip, on 20 Dec 2013 - 14:17, said:

The whole world is more violent... at least more than the last 50years or so...IMHO

No, it's the same....but as the man said you were not able to hear and watch the crimes committed back then.

[mickjn]

The whole world is more violent... at least more than the last 50years or so...IMHO

I agree,and it is getting worse but I do not think it is out of control

[GuestHouse]

The perception that violent crime is increasing is not supported by the crime stats.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales#data

[recycler]

Violence is getting worse in many countries, but in Thailand it's worse than anywhere else I've seen.

Just a few examples:

- A Thai soap showing serious violence, a man beating a wife until her face is bleeding at 6.30 PM and many soaps revolving around violence.

- Cartoons for kids from Thailand, Korea and Japan full of violent characters.

- Thai Rath newspaper with the daily dose of people in pools of blood.

- Teenagers engaging in school battles using real or homemade guns resulting in countless shooting incidents in schools and on public transportation.

- Kids of 2 years old hitting and biting each other with the parents and older kids cheering.

- Grown ups exploding out off control over the smallest of incidents leading to serious violence involving knifes, swords and the ever present firearms.

And I can keep going on and on.

Growing wild due to lack of disciplining by parents, at schools and by the police and the legal system.

Violence is Thai culture!

[kikoman]

In my experience as I live in a rural village where violence does not exist, I do go to Nakhon Sawan a lot and at least once a year to Bangkok and Pattaya..

I think you are correct the cameras are all over, as in the Boston bombing how quickly the bombers were ID-ed by looking over the tapes from security cameras. Prior to leaving the state I was driving on a empty New Mexico highway as I came over a rise a police car pulled me over and gave me a speeding ticket. I said how are you going to prove I was speeding and he pointed to an airplane overhead that was taping my speeding, "busted".

Also I watch many acts of police brutality and abuse of power in the states on You-tube that were taken by witnesses. I just began reading the Bangkok Post again and yes there is crime in Thailand, I have not seen so much as a street fight since leaving Pattaya. I am glad I do not live in the city!

Cheers

Edited December 20, 2013 by kikoman

[Paangjang]

Violence is getting worse in many countries, but in Thailand it's worse than anywhere else I've seen.

Just a few examples:

- A Thai soap showing serious violence, a man beating a wife until her face is bleeding at 6.30 PM and many soaps revolving around violence.

- Cartoons for kids from Thailand, Korea and Japan full of violent characters.

- Thai Rath newspaper with the daily dose of people in pools of blood.

- Teenagers engaging in school battles using real or homemade guns resulting in countless shooting incidents in schools and on public transportation.

- Kids of 2 years old hitting and biting each other with the parents and older kids cheering.

- Grown ups exploding out off control over the smallest of incidents leading to serious violence involving knifes, swords and the ever present firearms.

And I can keep going on and on.

Growing wild due to lack of disciplining by parents, at schools and by the police and the legal system.

Violence is Thai culture!

Good post. This answers the OP exactly as it is here. Violence and corruption are now unfortunatly, a huge part of Thai culture.

[Halion]

First of all your perception that the majority of foreigners here are in the older percentile is only correct if you are referring to living in Thailand and not the tourist numbers.

I have been involved in Thailand for over 30 years and do not think that there is a perceivable increase in violence.

Thailand is and has been an isolationist society and is basically lawless within social environments. This coupled with the culture of corruption only serves to allow acts of violence to go unabated.

The advent you mentioned of CCTV surveillance simply put what has been going on in all my time here in the face of foreigners as most can not read the Thai newspaper but they can view a picture .

Many living here live in a little dream world that their accrued financial background allows them to live, well but outside the real realities of this country in a sort of 'well I'm all right Jack mentality' but the truth is that this country has more than it's fair share of violent acts but is devoid of a logical and punitive legal system which acts impartially to an individuals status, wealth or position. So many incidents of serious public and legal concern simply fall through the cracks and are forgotten.

[thailiketoo]

Violence is getting worse in many countries, but in Thailand it's worse than anywhere else I've seen.

Just a few examples:

- A Thai soap showing serious violence, a man beating a wife until her face is bleeding at 6.30 PM and many soaps revolving around violence.

- Cartoons for kids from Thailand, Korea and Japan full of violent characters.

- Thai Rath newspaper with the daily dose of people in pools of blood.

- Teenagers engaging in school battles using real or homemade guns resulting in countless shooting incidents in schools and on public transportation.

- Kids of 2 years old hitting and biting each other with the parents and older kids cheering.

- Grown ups exploding out off control over the smallest of incidents leading to serious violence involving knifes, swords and the ever present firearms.

And I can keep going on and on.

Growing wild due to lack of disciplining by parents, at schools and by the police and the legal system.

Violence is Thai culture!

You gotta be kidding me dude. Check out the video. Knock out game

[krisb]

No one cares is the real problem

No not true. Sadly though bad news sells. No one wants to see the good stories.

[FiftyTwo]

I know a guy who was a former gang member in BK over 15 years ago.

He was the guy on the back of the m/c with the automatic.

Would spray rival business/enemies with bullets in drive bys.

Killed several.

No it isn't getting worse, just being reported more.

Life is cheap in Thailand, always was.

[HeavyDrinker]

My g/f mentioned that violence was getting worse in Thailand.

I think you sort of answered your own question insofar as while violent incidents may not be on the rise per se, the fact that there are cameras everywhere nowadays violent incidents are more widely reported.

[WitawatWatawit]

If violence has increased, it would only be marginal. Maybe. In the early 90s, violent incidents reached us only through the newspapers or word of mouth, mostly in the bars of Patpong, Cowboy or Nana, the regular haunts. Today, as I seldom visit a bar, the news comes through online media outlets or bulletin boards like this. I perceive no great change other than a proliferation of incidents filmed by cctv or smart phone. If there is a higher percentage on the Thai TV news, I cannot say as I never watch it. Now I'm about to go out for a drink, armed and ready with my smart phone - let the fun begin.

[Beet]

I've seen much more violence and crime on the street in Thailand than any other country. All Thai on Thai.

I don't go to touristy places.

[Kudel]

In my experience as I live in a rural village where violence does not exist, I do go to Nakhon Sawan a lot and at least once a year to Bangkok and Pattaya..

I think you are correct the cameras are all over, as in the Boston bombing how quickly the bombers were ID-ed by looking over the tapes from security cameras. Prior to leaving the state I was driving on a empty New Mexico highway as I came over a rise a police car pulled me over and gave me a speeding ticket. I said how are you going to prove I was speeding and he pointed to an airplane overhead that was taping my speeding, "busted".

Also I watch many acts of police brutality and abuse of power in the states on You-tube that were taken by witnesses. I just began reading the Bangkok Post again and yes there is crime in Thailand, I have not seen so much as a street fight since leaving Pattaya. I am glad I do not live in the city!

Cheers

That must be some kind of village you live in ,Whats it called heaven?Do you read the local Thai media outlets where you live?I seem to remember my ex Thai wife who comes from isaan telling me stories about Thai men from one village having a fight with men from another village about a land dispute it was an alcohol induced fight with machetes and fire arms.

Only in 2012 when still married we where invited by close family in Buriram provence because one of the sons was going to be ordained as a monk but a few local drunks wanted to have a go at me because i was a farang and not welcome.

Rape,murder, wife beating etc .... seems to be a daily occurence in said part of the country .You dont get out much do you?

Edited December 20, 2013 by Kudel

[Ulysses G.]

I feel much safer here than a big city in America. If a Thai attacks you, it is usually for some reason. Back home, there are a considerable of lowlives that will do it for the "fun" of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liatWFj5COk

[thailiketoo]

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/violence/by-country/

Brazil #19, Philippines # 40, Thailand #75, USA #92

[kikoman]

That video of the Knock-out game, is only one indication of lawlessness in the west, Thailand is not the only country with Violence. The States is much worse, I do not know of many others personally.

[Lancelot]

There is violence in Thailand; however, I fee my personal safety is most at risk simply riding my motorcycle. I have been forced off the road a couple of times by drivers in my lane. Usually they are passing another vehicle and maybe they didn't see me or, most likely, they simply don't care.

I also see drivers, usually motorbike drivers, texting and updating their Facebook accounts while driving. Oh my Buddha do I ever give those folks a wide berth

Back on topic, I have lived in Thailand for 10+ years and do not recall hearing about violent car jackings or Thais walking into schools and murdering people.

As other posters have observed, the world in general seems to be more violent, but then reporting of crime/violence has increased dramatically.

[thailiketoo]

Median age Thailand 33, Philippines 22, Laos 19

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_median_age

Edited December 20, 2013 by thailiketoo

[GuestHouse]

Its been my observation that foreigners with low levels of Thai language skills are often unaware of violence happening within very close proximity to where they live.

I've posted this before, I was once listening to an expat telling me how low crime rates in Thailand are, he was totally unaware of a gang rape which had taken place only a few days earlier less than 200 meters from his front door.

When it comes to violent crimes in close knit communities, Thai people will often not discuss the crime, knowing full well who was the victim, who was the perpetrator and the close knit relationships between those who might overhear the discussion and the perp.

[Lancelot]

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/violence/by-country/

Brazil #19, Philippines # 40, Thailand #75, USA #92

Interesting! Many Brits comment on how violent the UK can be; however, it is listed at #160 on this site.

Viet Nam was listed at 139 and China at 142 so I'm thinking "Why am I living in Thailand?"

[thailiketoo]

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/violence/by-country/

Brazil #19, Philippines # 40, Thailand #75, USA #92

Interesting! Many Brits comment on how violent the UK can be; however, it is listed at #160 on this site.

Viet Nam was listed at 139 and China at 142 so I'm thinking "Why am I living in Thailand?"

Well it's a choice of Thailand, Brazil or the Philippines for most expats eh? The food and temples don't ya know.

[Beet]

Unfortunately all the violence I have seen here (as stated much more than in any other country) has been a case of someone who cannot lose against someone much weaker. (a bigger man with a weapon, a man or men against a woman, a man against a young teenager with his mates behind just in case, just to name a few instances I remember right now.) 3 times it has been a man or men against a woman, in two of the cases it was like they almost orgasming off the power of it. Loving it. The other time I was luckily able to prevent it from going too far by stopping very close to it and getting out my phone while loudly pretending to call people to come here right now.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Beet