More bad news for gays in Uganda

[sustento]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/Uganda-adopts-draconian-anti-gay-bill/articleshow/27686159.cms

[ToddWeston]

I never knew the American Evangelical movement was so strong in Uganda - shocking.

This Scott Lively is one scary human being and he calls himself a man of God.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Lively

[isanbirder]

I never knew the American Evangelical movement was so strong in Uganda - shocking.

This Scott Lively is one scary human being and he calls himself a man of God.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Lively

I always wonder whether these extreme Protestant anti-gay campaigners are really repressing their own instincts. Certainly some have proved to be so.

[onthemoon]

Disgusting to hear that these evangelists still use impressionable third-world countries to spread their sick philosophies.

[pxlgirl]

I heard many religious nut cases are now trying to take over "poorer" countries in order to spread their agenda, after they slowly but surely are out of date in many western countries. Kinda like the tabac industry targeting kids and teens in 3rd world nations, after being banned to advertise elsewhere.

[ToddWeston]

I heard many religious nut cases are now trying to take over "poorer" countries in order to spread their agenda, after they slowly but surely are out of date in many western countries. Kinda like the tabac industry targeting kids and teens in 3rd world nations, after being banned to advertise elsewhere.

Not so sure how widespread these nut cases are but it is offensive, mind you when I see Mormons hovering the streets of BKK I'm also offended.

What surprises me is that there isn't more international condemnation.

[Jingthing]

A Ugandan "liberal" speaks out:

[tominbkk]

Stop all aid, let their tribes kill one another off. Must be a horrible place to live.

[pxlgirl]

one of the worst traits of christianity and islam is that both are trying to force their beliefs down other people's throats. Both have their own ways to do this. If someone chooses to believe in gods, allahs, santa claus, unicorns, fairies... whatever... they should just keep it to themselves in their likeminded groups. However, much of the past mythologies and poetry have shaped our cultural life, and that's precious, unless mythology is being acknowledged for what it is - myths and tales. That doesn't make them worth less, actually quite the opposite: we can learn from these stories. Many people actually enjoy fairy tales, my fav is Hans Christian Andersen.

Any scripture is nothing more than a collection of myths and tales, each culture on earth has developed their versions. Sadly, some have discovered these to use as a tool in order to manipulate masses, which is pretty much what all religious institutions do. Trying to shape people's behavior and their moral values. Homophobia is one of many results from it.

[onthemoon]

one of the worst traits of christianity and islam is that both are trying to force their beliefs down other people's throats. Both have their own ways to do this. If someone chooses to believe in gods, allahs, santa claus, unicorns, fairies... whatever... they should just keep it to themselves in their likeminded groups. However, much of the past mythologies and poetry have shaped our cultural life, and that's precious, unless mythology is being acknowledged for what it is - myths and tales. That doesn't make them worth less, actually quite the opposite: we can learn from these stories. Many people actually enjoy fairy tales, my fav is Hans Christian Andersen.

Any scripture is nothing more than a collection of myths and tales, each culture on earth has developed their versions. Sadly, some have discovered these to use as a tool in order to manipulate masses, which is pretty much what all religious institutions do. Trying to shape people's behavior and their moral values. Homophobia is one of many results from it.

I don't know about the Koran, but the Bible clearly states that Christians have an obligation to "spread the word". It is their duty to tell members of other religions that they are wrong and stupid, and the good Christians send out missionaries to all over the world, including Thailand, to right this wrong. No tolerance.

[AyG]

And now for the good news: President Museveni has refused to sign the bill to imprison gay people for life. Not that he's in the slightest way enlightened in the subject matter:

"In a letter to parliament, the president said homosexuality was caused by either 'random breeding' or a need to make money. Lesbians, he said, chose female partners because of 'sexual starvation' and the failure to marry a man."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/17/uganda-president-law-jailing-gay-people-life

[isanbirder]

Many Christian leaders are trying to come to terms with homosexuality, among them Archbishop Welby of Canterbury. As a gay Catholic, I think complete acceptance would be unrealistic at this stage; no major organisation is likely to switch its views 180 degrees overnight. But bigots like the Archbishop of Uganda do not help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-25993140

[sustento]

Many Christian leaders are trying to come to terms with homosexuality, among them Archbishop Welby of Canterbury. As a gay Catholic, I think complete acceptance would be unrealistic at this stage; no major organisation is likely to switch its views 180 degrees overnight. But bigots like the Archbishop of Uganda do not help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-25993140

Looking at the map it seems a few countries have laws making same sex relationships legal. Apart from South Africa can anyone name them please?

[Jingthing]

And now for the good news: President Museveni has refused to sign the bill to imprison gay people for life. Not that he's in the slightest way enlightened in the subject matter:

"In a letter to parliament, the president said homosexuality was caused by either 'random breeding' or a need to make money. Lesbians, he said, chose female partners because of 'sexual starvation' and the failure to marry a man."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/17/uganda-president-law-jailing-gay-people-life

Not quite:

Ugandan president Yoweri Museveni has indicated that he is planning to sign into law the country's long-languishing Anti-Homosexuality Bill, which would impose lifetime jail sentences for certain instances of homosexuality and would sentence anyone who performs a same-sex marriage to seven years' imprisonment.

http://www.advocate.com/world/2014/02/14/ugandan-president-sign-jail-gays-bill

[Jingthing]

Uganda declares WAR!

(On gays.)

[sustento]

Let's hope that the west cuts back on aid to the vile place.

[Jingthing]

Looking at greater Africa:

Sadly, Uganda is not alone in its harsh treatment of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2014/02/18/cheat-sheet-lgbt-rights-in-africa/

Edited February 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[sustento]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/uganda-antigay-bill-signed-by-president-museveni-despite-international-outcry-9149808.html

[sustento]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/23/desmond-tutu-uganda-gay-law-_n_4842280.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

[Scott]

The link given is worth more than just a link:

Desmond Tutu: Uganda's Anti-Gay Law Has Nazi Parallels

South African peace icon Desmond Tutu warned on Sunday that Uganda's controversial anti-gay law recalled sinister attempts by the Nazi and apartheid regimes to "legislate against love".

The Anglican cleric said he was "very disheartened" to learn that Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni intended to sign a bill that will see homosexuals jailed for life, urging him instead to clamp down on rape, child abuse and the sex trade.

"In South Africa, apartheid police used to rush into bedrooms where whites were suspected of making love to blacks," Tutu said in a statement. "It was demeaning......

HuffPost Gay Voices

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/23/desmond-tutu-uganda-gay-law-_n_4842280.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

Thanks for the link, Sustento. Very interesting to read

[sustento]

It's getting worse...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/25/uganda-newspaper-names-top-homosexuals_n_4851503.html

[Jingthing]

These really bad times for gays in much the world call into question the concept of gay as an IDENTITY. As gay people, do we personally identify with these foreign gays being persecuted, or not? You could say that all decent people in the world should identify with them, as they should, but I think that's a cop out. As fellow gays don't we have a SPECIAL responsibility towards our persecuted brothers and sisters abroad? I think that we do. How much can we do? Probably not much. But for example Americans should keep supporting the one party showing leadership in condemning this global persecution, as Obama has done. There is no way the American opposition party would be similarly interested in this. In fact, some of their members are actively promoting persecution of gays globally, and they do the same at home whenever they can.

If you don't think international gay people have a stake in supporting persecuted gays globally, let me ask you this. What would you think of a member of another kind of identity group, say Kurds for example, who didn't feel a connection to their fellow Kurds in other countries during times of persecution? Would that be something to respect or rather, the opposite?

Edited February 25, 2014 by Jingthing

[onthemoon]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/uganda-antigay-bill-signed-by-president-museveni-despite-international-outcry-9149808.html

Hi sustento,

Just a personal opinion: It would be great if you gave a one-sentence summary, or c&p'ed the paragraph you find most compelling, in addition to posting the link.

If you don't know what I mean: JT is my hero in this department.

[onthemoon]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/uganda-antigay-bill-signed-by-president-museveni-despite-international-outcry-9149808.html

The law, which builds on a colonial-era anti-homosexuality law, will see those found guilty of homosexuality sentenced to 14 years in jail.

Well done, colonialists. Any efforts to fix the problems you caused?

I am serious. I am not familiar with Africa but here in the Far East, the world (with regards to gay people) was in order until the colonialists came. How about Africa in pre-colonial times? Does anybody know?

[Scott]

I think one of the big things that people need to watch for is what happens when these people escape. What type of protection are they being afforded in other countries and are they able to apply for political asylum.

It's not just the ones who are gay, but those who are perceived as being gay who are persecuted. This can extend to fairly young people.

[onthemoon]

It's getting worse...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/25/uganda-newspaper-names-top-homosexuals_n_4851503.html

In an earlier post we heard that US evangelists are responsible (they probably found fertile grounds created by the colonialists).

What was Uganda, what was sub-Saharan Africa like towards gays before the Western influence?

[onthemoon]

These really bad times for gays in much the world call into question the concept of gay as an IDENTITY. As gay people, do we personally identify with these foreign gays being persecuted, or not? You could say that all decent people in the world should identify with them, as they should, but I think that's a cop out. As fellow gays don't we have a SPECIAL responsibility towards our persecuted brothers and sisters abroad? I think that we do. How much can we do? Probably not much. But for example Americans should keep supporting the one party showing leadership in condemning this global persecution, as Obama has done. There is no way the American opposition party would be similarly interested in this. In fact, some of their members are actively promoting persecution of gays globally, and they do the same at home whenever they can.

If you don't think international gay people have a stake in supporting persecuted gays globally, let me ask you this. What would you think of a member of another kind of identity group, say Kurds for example, who didn't feel a connection to their fellow Kurds in other countries during times of persecution? Would that be something to respect or rather, the opposite?

I would phrase that question differently: If this happened to your country, the country you live in and identify yourself with, if that country decided that being gay is bad and you need to go to prison for being gay, would you hope for international support?

Of course you would, because your own efforts have already been proven insufficient. Without international support, you can't win, you can't make gays in your country be safe from prosecution and imprisonment - and maybe even worse torture happening in prison without the sanction of the law.

Edited February 25, 2014 by onthemoon

[isanbirder]

I. I see that a Ugandan newspaper has published a list of gay Ugandans, many of them prominent people. This is horrific, especially just after Museveni has signed his anti-gay bill.

[isanbirder]

As a reaction to the new law, the normally apolitical World Bank has postponed a $90 million loan intended to improve health care. There has also been a run on the Ugandan shilling.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/28/world-bank-uganda-loan-anti-gay-law

It's good to see the widespread anger at Museveni's repulsive bill...... but wouldn't the World Bank's action hurt a lot of Ugandans without noticeably helping the gays?

[Jingthing]

As a reaction to the new law, the normally apolitical World Bank has postponed a $90 million loan intended to improve health care. There has also been a run on the Ugandan shilling.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/28/world-bank-uganda-loan-anti-gay-law

It's good to see the widespread anger at Museveni's repulsive bill...... but wouldn't the World Bank's action hurt a lot of Ugandans without noticeably helping the gays?

Yes it would hurt Uganda.

These new policies are massively popular in Uganda.

Entities are denied "loans" for various reasons.

This reason seems legit.

The idea is a combination of international pressures over time has a CHANCE of encouraging a change. Not because they don't hate gays. Because they will then have a stronger SELF INTEREST than hating gays, loving themselves. Doing nothing certainly will do NOTHING.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Jingthing