My first 6 weeks in Chiang Mai

[Loptr]

Cleaning materials and paint are cheap in Thailand.

Why do I live here ....... cheap girls ........ it's why (nearly) every foreign guy lives here.

I feel sorry for you that you have found no other reason!

I find it amazing that anyone has managed to delude themselves there is another reason.

Thailand is a corrupt and dangerous country with no rule of law, risk of death is high.

You think I'm wrong, ask the families of the people who stayed in the DeathTown Inn in CM.

Or the family of the policeman who was dragged and killed by the Red Bull kid.

Or any of the 100 expat club members in CM who lost their pensions this year.

At the risk of sounding obvious, why are you still in Thailand? There are lots of countries with cheap hookers and booze.

For the OP, don't let your enthusiasm become tainted by some of the responses on this thread. You are just encountering those that are negative on Thailand for one reason or another. If you stay in Thailand long enough, you will go through this phase also to one degree or another. Take it with a pinch of salt as no place is perfect and all dogs have fleas.

[rott]

OP, It reads that you went to CM and bought a condo without knowing the place, or am i misinterpreting things ?

Loptr, please list some of these places with cheap hookers and cheap booze, a change can be as good as a rest.

[donniereadit]

Hope it works out for you since you bought a place. Glad I did not do that when I arrived a couple years ago. It does not have that 'edge' it had at first for me. Ready to move on.

[Diddl]

The CM experience can be great if one avoids various pitfalls.

I met a older european man recently who just came to Thailand to retire.

He met an issan women at a massage shop on Loh Kroh road.

He believes everything she says like he is the first one she has gone with.

In the space of a just a few months he has put her as the sole heir of his will. He has a significant pension and she has talked him into getting the will properly registered at his countries consulate in Pattaya.

I have tried to explain some caution or even light paranoia is a healthy practice in Thailand but he is just so gullible and overwhelmed with happiness now.

I don't think this is going to end well but I really hope I am wrong.

amazing how clever some of those hookers are and how gullible and naive the old falangs are.

OP the reason you got such a negative response the first time was probably due to your incredibly naive idea that you could buy real property in Thailand and put it in a "friends name" or Thai nominee. that is illegal and you could end up as the victim of extortion or have the land confiscated by the government. and then to broadcast this on a public forum was incredibly foolish. yes the people are nice but always keep your guard up. i have not lowered my guard in almost 30 years now. i would also add that you should always keep your guard up especially around other falangs who appear to be overly helpful, have financial advice for you, tell you that you can buy real property in Thailand, have a lawyer that they recommend, etc. there are more foreign white and blue collar criminals in Thailand than probably any other country.

i believe the negative response was only to warn you and not be so gullible and naive and possibly lose everything you have.

enjoy your stay.

A friend of mine wants to invest in some land in the north. I thought that if the land is suitable I could lease it from him, or if I found land for him - is that illegal? Anyway, I will be looking for leasehold land in the north in a few months - that is not illegal. Thank you for the warning but I will not do anything illegal because I love this country and wish to stay here.

[FolkGuitar]

The 'place' doesn't make a person happy. A person makes themselves happy. If they aren't happy within themselves they won't be happy no matter where they go. Of course there certainly are a lot of things that are 'wrong' with Thailand. But no more than are wrong with any other country. Each country has its own shelf full of things that perhaps could be 'fixed.' But obviously there are just as many things that are right with each country. We might prefer the things that are 'right' with a country today, and not care for them later as we change and grow. Or we might like them better... Who knows? But moving isn't going to be a panacea for a person's personal problems. That's baggage that gets taken along where ever we go. Fortunately, we do have the choice of correcting those problems... or not. That's up to each individual.

We aren't static lumps of stone.

We can change...

We just gotta wanna....

[Diddl]

It is great when everything goes smoothly and all you see is smiles. However, for your own welfare, be aware that the smile is typically by default and can sometimes betray true intentions. It likely won't always run smooth--bureaucracy can be a killer and boiling hot, smokey days in March are no fun either.

Also be careful of your perception of the Thai south, you are way off tangent. Had some of my best experiences there and met some of the warmest people.

I did not say the people were bad down there, I said that most of the troubles are in the south because of sex and drugs. Troubles are everywhere but seem to be mostly in the south of Thailand. As for the "warmest people", I think, generally speaking, that Thais all over Thailand are warm. I am glad that you are enjoying Thailand and the people also.

Give the Muslims the credit they want. 5000 dead in the South would probably disagree with you. Oh, and read about the golden triangle and monks selling yabba sometime.

I am really sorry about the Muslims. I have Muslim friends too. You will find that they are persecuted all over the world now because people believe the propaganda that labels them all terrorists. Unfortunately, some people believe all the nonsense and do not research the matter. Muslims have been killed in many countries and this makes me sad.

I never said Thailand was perfect, unfortunately as long as people beLIEve all the nonsense on TV and radio, people will do the most atrocious things.

[Diddl]

Cleaning materials and paint are cheap in Thailand.

Why do I live here ....... cheap girls ........ it's why (nearly) every foreign guy lives here.

I feel sorry for you that you have found no other reason!

I find it amazing that anyone has managed to delude themselves there is another reason.

Thailand is a corrupt and dangerous country with no rule of law, risk of death is high.

You think I'm wrong, ask the families of the people who stayed in the DeathTown Inn in CM.

Or the family of the policeman who was dragged and killed by the Red Bull kid.

Or any of the 100 expat club members in CM who lost their pensions this year.

What do you mean "100 expat club members in CM lost their pensions this year"? How can an expat lose his pension when his pension comes from abroad, or are you talking about Thai pensions for expats? Please explain.

[Diddl]

I have only lived here for 36 years but I have always found Thailand an easy place to live, personally. I have no idea what it would be like to move here these days as an old man with lots of luggage from a previous life. I can say, however, my experience has been very different from what many post here on TV.

Whether someone is happy or miserable living in Thailand, I have developed a hands off approach. They have the right to be as happy or miserable as they choose and I really don’t care much either way, I guess. If the OP is happy, I am happy to leave it at that.

Fair comment and my experience is similar to yours.

But it is the way the op wrote:

"Perhaps they left their country, as I did, to find better people to live with"

Then in another response says that people are jealous...

Sounds abit arrogant.

I wish farangs would come here because they like the place not because it was <deleted> somewhere else and cheaper here.

I could not come here earlier because I had to look after my aging mother. It is my 4th time in Thailand and it is my 2nd time in CM. I did some voluntary work in India before coming here, my project was realised (yes, I had some bad experiences there) and now it is time for me to retire. I like this place that is why I am here, and no, it is not cheaper for me.

Call me arrogant if you want, it's water off a duck's back, but I get the impression that, when you are positive and good things happen to you, negative people MUST put in their penny's worth to dampen the whole scenario as if it is not admissable that others should be happy. If that is not the case for you, then don't react to my message as it does not concern you.

[Diddl]

Let's get things straight - I have not bought a house and I do not want to buy a house. I want to lease some land and I plan to do this in the future. It is legal to lease land.

[Diddl]

Just to get the negative cronies upset again – today I went to the supermarket and as I was waiting in the queue to pay for my purchases, a Thai guy in front of me offered to unload my trolley onto the cash counter. He was a CUSTOMER who had just finished purchasing some goods in front of me. Now bombard me with your negativity some more! I’m obviously doing something right – maybe I should give you classes!

[donniereadit]

Just to get the negative cronies upset again – today I went to the supermarket and as I was waiting in the queue to pay for my purchases, a Thai guy in front of me offered to unload my trolley onto the cash counter. He was a CUSTOMER who had just finished purchasing some goods in front of me. Now bombard me with your negativity some more! I’m obviously doing something right – maybe I should give you classes!

I find this sort of thing just pitiful. It deserves a nice slap on the back of the head.

[puukao]

Just to get the negative cronies upset again – today I went to the supermarket and as I was waiting in the queue to pay for my purchases, a Thai guy in front of me offered to unload my trolley onto the cash counter. He was a CUSTOMER who had just finished purchasing some goods in front of me. Now bombard me with your negativity some more! I’m obviously doing something right – maybe I should give you classes!

It is very sad you are now spending your days in Thailand trolling on TV. I am sure, in 6-months time, after the smoke, heat, traffic, food, etc....things will be much different. hope you make some friends while here. good luck. try to be nice to foreigners as well. being negative about other people's negative does not equal positivity.

[Diddl]

Just to get the negative cronies upset again – today I went to the supermarket and as I was waiting in the queue to pay for my purchases, a Thai guy in front of me offered to unload my trolley onto the cash counter. He was a CUSTOMER who had just finished purchasing some goods in front of me. Now bombard me with your negativity some more! I’m obviously doing something right – maybe I should give you classes!

I find this sort of thing just pitiful. It deserves a nice slap on the back of the head.

And I find the negativity pitiful, not even a justification as to what happened to these guys/gals.

[Diddl]

Just to get the negative cronies upset again – today I went to the supermarket and as I was waiting in the queue to pay for my purchases, a Thai guy in front of me offered to unload my trolley onto the cash counter. He was a CUSTOMER who had just finished purchasing some goods in front of me. Now bombard me with your negativity some more! I’m obviously doing something right – maybe I should give you classes!

It is very sad you are now spending your days in Thailand trolling on TV. I am sure, in 6-months time, after the smoke, heat, traffic, food, etc....things will be much different. hope you make some friends while here. good luck. try to be nice to foreigners as well. being negative about other people's negative does not equal positivity.

What do you expect? I'm fed up with this constant moaning without even relating their experiences as to why they are negative or why they are here even. If they want to frighten the life out of me, it hasn't worked.

Negativity creates negativity, that is their problem, and so I am giving back negativity. Positivity creates positivity and that is why Thais are nice to me - they should try it some time to see if it works.

[Diddl]

Just to get the negative cronies upset again – today I went to the supermarket and as I was waiting in the queue to pay for my purchases, a Thai guy in front of me offered to unload my trolley onto the cash counter. He was a CUSTOMER who had just finished purchasing some goods in front of me. Now bombard me with your negativity some more! I’m obviously doing something right – maybe I should give you classes!

I find this sort of thing just pitiful. It deserves a nice slap on the back of the head.

Why don't you look at the general forum:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/688817-im-a-pa/

and see how this Thai lady was treated. It is disgusting to say the least. I have bitten my tongue long enough and these guys/gals should be banned. Why don't you slap them on the head?

I am called arrogant, but that's OK, but when I retaliate their negativity, that's not OK. If they can be rude and abusive as they have been on many forums, then I can also say what I feel.

[DogNo1]

Hmmm. The OP says that she left her country to find better people to live with and implies that her treatment here has been better than it has been in the "so-called civilized countries". That along with her condescension toward those who don't share her view suggests a certain desparation to find a happy life in Thailand. I hope that things work out well for her but, in my experience, inner peace comes from accepting things as they are. I'm not saying that keeping a positive attitude and interpreting things positively isn't important but unpleasant things do sometimes happen,even in Thailand and an acceptance of that might lead to a calmer state of mind and better relations with other TV posters.

[greytown]

I reckon that since the OP is a lady, her experience would differ from others simply from that fact alone, as she is not perceived by the locals as being just another aging farang sexpat.

[andreandre]

I reckon that since the OP is a lady, her experience would differ from others simply from that fact alone, as she is not perceived by the locals as being just another aging farang sexpat.

Lady or no lady......i'm calling 'troll'...

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Who was the D bag poster who would buy fine wines and filet mignon but could not take a picture?

Even his "servants" did not know how to take a picture.

Maybe the OP thought it was going to be a high 5 party.

Edited December 23, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[DogNo1]

andreandre: I think that you may be right! Troll it is.

[FolkGuitar]

Diddl, please consider this as your introduction to ThaiVisa, and take comfort knowing that all the expats you will meet in Chiang Mai are not like those so often represented here. You may choose to join the ranks of those who never return to this forum, but, what might just be a better course of action, read the forum for the gleanings you can pick up, without risking sowing a crop yourself. There really is a wealth of information to be found here, once you learn to ignore the garbage.

After a while (and it doesn't take very long,) you'll notice the same posters displaying the same behavior and attitudes again and again. I once thought it would be interesting to make an Excel spread sheet marking the ratio of negative to positive posts made by each of these folks, but then decided not to bother. They wouldn't give a damn, and the rest of us know who they are anyway. Don't take their comments personally. They would attack Mother Teresa for being selfish and laugh at Gandhi for his choice of clothing... You just gave them another target.

[Diddl]

Diddl, please consider this as your introduction to ThaiVisa, and take comfort knowing that all the expats you will meet in Chiang Mai are not like those so often represented here. You may choose to join the ranks of those who never return to this forum, but, what might just be a better course of action, read the forum for the gleanings you can pick up, without risking sowing a crop yourself. There really is a wealth of information to be found here, once you learn to ignore the garbage.

After a while (and it doesn't take very long,) you'll notice the same posters displaying the same behavior and attitudes again and again. I once thought it would be interesting to make an Excel spread sheet marking the ratio of negative to positive posts made by each of these folks, but then decided not to bother. They wouldn't give a dam_n, and the rest of us know who they are anyway. Don't take their comments personally. They would attack Mother Teresa for being selfish and laugh at Gandhi for his choice of clothing... You just gave them another target.

Thank you for this message. Yes, I reacted because I was fed up reading all the trash. I am glad that you, and others like you, are still here. You are indeed a wise man. I agree, there is valuable information on TV and I appreciate such input. Now I will continue to enjoy my stay in CM without divulging to those who don't want to hear it.

[FiftyTwo]

Diddl, please consider this as your introduction to ThaiVisa, and take comfort knowing that all the expats you will meet in Chiang Mai are not like those so often represented here. You may choose to join the ranks of those who never return to this forum, but, what might just be a better course of action, read the forum for the gleanings you can pick up, without risking sowing a crop yourself. There really is a wealth of information to be found here, once you learn to ignore the garbage.

After a while (and it doesn't take very long,) you'll notice the same posters displaying the same behavior and attitudes again and again. I once thought it would be interesting to make an Excel spread sheet marking the ratio of negative to positive posts made by each of these folks, but then decided not to bother. They wouldn't give a dam_n, and the rest of us know who they are anyway. Don't take their comments personally. They would attack Mother Teresa for being selfish and laugh at Gandhi for his choice of clothing... You just gave them another target.

Thank you for this message. Yes, I reacted because I was fed up reading all the trash. I am glad that you, and others like you, are still here. You are indeed a wise man. I agree, there is valuable information on TV and I appreciate such input. Now I will continue to enjoy my stay in CM without divulging to those who don't want to hear it.

He's not all that wise!

Immigration police routinely arrest and deport foreign musicians in CM for working without work permits.

Edited December 23, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[FolkGuitar]

Diddl, please consider this as your introduction to ThaiVisa, and take comfort knowing that all the expats you will meet in Chiang Mai are not like those so often represented here. You may choose to join the ranks of those who never return to this forum, but, what might just be a better course of action, read the forum for the gleanings you can pick up, without risking sowing a crop yourself. There really is a wealth of information to be found here, once you learn to ignore the garbage.

After a while (and it doesn't take very long,) you'll notice the same posters displaying the same behavior and attitudes again and again. I once thought it would be interesting to make an Excel spread sheet marking the ratio of negative to positive posts made by each of these folks, but then decided not to bother. They wouldn't give a dam_n, and the rest of us know who they are anyway. Don't take their comments personally. They would attack Mother Teresa for being selfish and laugh at Gandhi for his choice of clothing... You just gave them another target.

Thank you for this message. Yes, I reacted because I was fed up reading all the trash. I am glad that you, and others like you, are still here. You are indeed a wise man. I agree, there is valuable information on TV and I appreciate such input. Now I will continue to enjoy my stay in CM without divulging to those who don't want to hear it.

He's not all that wise!

Immigration police routinely arrest and deport foreign musicians in CM for working without work permits.

Well I guess I'm safe.

I'm wise enough NOT to be a foreign musician in CM working without a work permit.

I jam with friends, and never in bars or clubs. Never amplified, never paid, don't even get free sodas. We're just a small group of friends playing together.

But I'm curious... from where does your 'Immigration police routinely arrest and deport foreign musicians in CM for working without work permits' come from. "Routinely?" Really? All I can find is one case a few years ago, where a group was gathered up, but the only ones deported were charged with overstay of visa, not charged with working without a permit. Everyone else was released without so much as a fine.

Do you have a cite to back up your 'routinely,' or is this another case of the sky falling?

Edited December 23, 2013 by FolkGuitar

[FiftyTwo]

I jam with friends, and never in bars or clubs. Never amplified, never paid, don't even get free sodas. We're just a small group of friends playing together.

I was convinced I had seen you jamming in CU corner.

Probably the Garden too.

Sorry, must have confused you with someone else.

[FolkGuitar]

I jam with friends, and never in bars or clubs. Never amplified, never paid, don't even get free sodas. We're just a small group of friends playing together.

I was convinced I had seen you jamming in CU corner.

Probably the Garden too.

Sorry, must have confused you with someone else.

I've never played music in CU Corner. In fact, I have NEVER even been inside CU Corner.

Yes... I guess you have confused me with someone else.

I have been in the Garden Guest House. I've sat at a table at the side of the restaurant area with friends and played music. We are a club meeting there to play together. Never played amplified on their stage, nor been employed by them to play. These days we play for a couple of hours in the afternoons. We don't play for an audience; we play for ourselves. Most of us aren't even facing the other tables. We aren't even volunteering. Just club members sharing music.

But you didn't provide a citation for your comment that 'Immigration police routinely arrest and deport foreign musicians in CM for working without work permits.' Do you have one?

[JingerBen]

I jam with friends, and never in bars or clubs. Never amplified, never paid, don't even get free sodas. We're just a small group of friends playing together.

I was convinced I had seen you jamming in CU corner.

Probably the Garden too.

Sorry, must have confused you with someone else.

I've never played music in CU Corner. In fact, I have NEVER even been inside CU Corner.

Yes... I guess you have confused me with someone else.

I have been in the Garden Guest House. I've sat at a table at the side of the restaurant area with friends and played music. We are a club meeting there to play together. Never played amplified on their stage, nor been employed by them to play. These days we play for a couple of hours in the afternoons. We don't play for an audience; we play for ourselves. Most of us aren't even facing the other tables. We aren't even volunteering. Just club members sharing music.

But you didn't provide a citation for your comment that 'Immigration police routinely arrest and deport foreign musicians in CM for working without work permits.' Do you have one?

Farangs playing music in public venues can be a risky business.

Thai performers don't like competition from foreigners, and will do what is necessary to eliminate it.

The unholy trinity of the entertainment industry, organized crime, and police, are best left unprovoked here in Chiang Mai.

If the urge to play becomes irrepressible, then appear like a flash mob, as though it were spontaneous. Don't perform at the same place regularly, or you will be asking for trouble. It doesn't matter if you are facing the audience, or facing the wall; sooner or later you will be facing the music.

Diddl, welcome to the new Chiang Mai.

But chere, you've come a little late. You should have been here when... no, forget it.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

[FolkGuitar]

I jam with friends, and never in bars or clubs. Never amplified, never paid, don't even get free sodas. We're just a small group of friends playing together.

I was convinced I had seen you jamming in CU corner.

Probably the Garden too.

Sorry, must have confused you with someone else.

I've never played music in CU Corner. In fact, I have NEVER even been inside CU Corner.

Yes... I guess you have confused me with someone else.

I have been in the Garden Guest House. I've sat at a table at the side of the restaurant area with friends and played music. We are a club meeting there to play together. Never played amplified on their stage, nor been employed by them to play. These days we play for a couple of hours in the afternoons. We don't play for an audience; we play for ourselves. Most of us aren't even facing the other tables. We aren't even volunteering. Just club members sharing music.

But you didn't provide a citation for your comment that 'Immigration police routinely arrest and deport foreign musicians in CM for working without work permits.' Do you have one?

Farangs playing music in public venues can be a risky business.

Thai performers don't like competition from foreigners, and will do what is necessary to eliminate it.

The unholy trinity of the entertainment industry, organized crime, and police, are best left unprovoked here in Chiang Mai.

If the urge to play becomes irrepressible, then appear like a flash mob, as though it were spontaneous. Don't perform at the same place regularly, or you will be asking for trouble. It doesn't matter if you are facing the audience, or facing the wall; sooner or later you will be facing the music.

'Sigh...' Perhaps YOU would like to provide a citation for the comment that 'Immigration police routinely arrest and deport foreign musicians in CM for working without work permits.' It seems that FiftyTwo was unable to do so.

Or even YOUR comment that 'Farangs playing music in public venues can be a risky business.'

We are well aware of what went on when the police arrested the musicians who were;

Performing on stage

Bragging on the Internet about making lots of money playing in Thailand

Bragging locally about making lots of money playing in bars in Chiang Mai

and doing it all with expired visas, to say nothing of work permits.

We KNOW that the people who were deported were deported for not having valid visas. They were NOT deported for working without permits.

And there has been an active folk music group playing in that same place on the same day every week for the past fifteen years...

Get a grip, man! The sky is NOT falling!

While it's possible that the immigration police may stop by, we all have valid visas... We are not 'working,' we are not 'performing,' we are not even 'volunteering.' We are a club that meets to share our hobby with other club members. No Thai law against that. Not even a little one.

Unless you'd care to share the citation that says otherwise?

Edited December 24, 2013 by FolkGuitar

[JingerBen]

Farangs playing music in public venues can be a risky business.

Thai performers don't like competition from foreigners, and will do what is necessary to eliminate it.

The unholy trinity of the entertainment industry, organized crime, and police, are best left unprovoked here in Chiang Mai.

If the urge to play becomes irrepressible, then appear like a flash mob, as though it were spontaneous. Don't perform at the same place regularly, or you will be asking for trouble. It doesn't matter if you are facing the audience, or facing the wall; sooner or later you will be facing the music.

'Sigh...' Perhaps YOU would like to provide a citation for the comment that 'Immigration police routinely arrest and deport foreign musicians in CM for working without work permits.' It seems that FiftyTwo was unable to do so.

Or even YOUR comment that 'Farangs playing music in public venues can be a risky business.'

We are well aware of what went on when the police arrested the musicians who were;

Performing on stage

Bragging on the Internet about making lots of money playing in Thailand

Bragging locally about making lots of money playing in bars in Chiang Mai

and doing it all with expired visas, to say nothing of work permits.

We KNOW that the people who were deported were deported for not having valid visas. They were NOT deported for working without permits.

And there has been an active folk music group playing in that same place on the same day every week for the past fifteen years...

Get a grip, man! The sky is NOT falling!

While it's possible that the immigration police may stop by, we all have valid visas... We are not 'working,' we are not 'performing,' we are not even 'volunteering.' We are a club that meets to share our hobby with other club members. No Thai law against that. Not even a little one.

Unless you'd care to share the citation that says otherwise?

Everything I said stands. You haven't convincingly refuted anything.

Just because your visas are in order doesn't mean dick.

If you play a regular gig anywhere in the city you're going to get lessons from Thais that you won't forget anytime soon.

[Throatwobbler]

Farangs playing music in public venues can be a risky business.

Thai performers don't like competition from foreigners, and will do what is necessary to eliminate it.

The unholy trinity of the entertainment industry, organized crime, and police, are best left unprovoked here in Chiang Mai.

If the urge to play becomes irrepressible, then appear like a flash mob, as though it were spontaneous. Don't perform at the same place regularly, or you will be asking for trouble. It doesn't matter if you are facing the audience, or facing the wall; sooner or later you will be facing the music.

'Sigh...' Perhaps YOU would like to provide a citation for the comment that 'Immigration police routinely arrest and deport foreign musicians in CM for working without work permits.' It seems that FiftyTwo was unable to do so.

Or even YOUR comment that 'Farangs playing music in public venues can be a risky business.'

We are well aware of what went on when the police arrested the musicians who were;

Performing on stage

Bragging on the Internet about making lots of money playing in Thailand

Bragging locally about making lots of money playing in bars in Chiang Mai

and doing it all with expired visas, to say nothing of work permits.

We KNOW that the people who were deported were deported for not having valid visas. They were NOT deported for working without permits.

And there has been an active folk music group playing in that same place on the same day every week for the past fifteen years...

Get a grip, man! The sky is NOT falling!

While it's possible that the immigration police may stop by, we all have valid visas... We are not 'working,' we are not 'performing,' we are not even 'volunteering.' We are a club that meets to share our hobby with other club members. No Thai law against that. Not even a little one.

Unless you'd care to share the citation that says otherwise?

Everything I said stands. You haven't convincingly refuted anything.

Just because your visas are in order doesn't mean dick.

If you play a regular gig anywhere in the city you're going to get lessons from Thais that you won't forget anytime soon.

There are many falangs playing regular gigs at restaurants and bars. Get out and have a look around. Things did go quiet a few years ago when there were those couple of raids but there has been nothing since.