Health and Safety in Thailand or lack thereof

[thequietman]

Hi Guys,

I really need the experiences of business people here in Thailand who have set up a new company.

Is H&S a requirement here in the work place? Is it checked by the relevant government department and what dept. does it?

Do Thai companies take it seriously? Do you have to grease someones hand to bypass it?

hanks for any inputs and experiences.

Merry Xmas to all on TV.

[Soutpeel]

Yes there are HES requirements in Thailand and many are government gazetted...the problem for the most part, much like the traffic laws, is not the lack of laws but the enforcement of the laws, but yes there is government HES department

In some cases Thai companies take the rules very seriously others not so much, depends on the business they are in

And as a responsible farang one wonders why you want to by pass safety rules any way shouldn't you be doing the right thing instead of trying to find out who you can bribe......?

Just a thought

[Soutpeel]

And for purposes of completeness the government department your looking for is (last info I have)

Occupational health and safety bureau

22/22 Mu 2 baromrachachonnanee road

Chimple thaling chan

Bangkok

10170

Tel 024488338

[chrisinth]

What sort of company are you setting up? How many employees, what sort of workshop environment, what processes are you intending to use, etc, etc. All pretty relevant.

Like Soutpeel said earlier, the laws are there, whether they are enforced in your area is another matter. We just went through an issue with noise pollution (the area around our shop has become built-up over the last few years and is now classed as residential) and are in the process of moving to another site because of the limitation of running machinery.

To be fair, we do need the additional space

[Costas2008]

I would advise you to read previous posts on TV.

Health and safety in Thailand

[Ghostnigel]

I would advise you to read previous posts on TV.

Health and safety in Thailand

What are you saying?...Thais always have steel toecap shoes and safety hats on their super-safe looking bamboo scaffolds!!...555

[cardinalblue]

LOS is a third world country when it comes to EH&S....They copy western regulations but really don't understand how and why they are regs in the fiirst place...and thus the pirpose of them...

The enforcement arm in either non-existent or ineffective. My advice to you is to immplement common sense and just not do things b/c it saves a few bucks...

You can always find a western health and safety manager to look at blueprints, physical inspections, discuss western OSHA laws, etc to give you some perspective of what should be done regardless of what isn't done by Thais responsible for this important subject....

Example just b/c Thailand doesn't have Asbestos and Lead regs doesn't mean one should install these products in their workplace...

Apply common sense....

CB

[thailiketoo]

And for purposes of completeness the government department your looking for is (last info I have) Occupational health and safety bureau 22/22 Mu 2 baromrachachonnanee road Chimple thaling chan Bangkok 10170 Tel 024488338

Two really good posts. One wonders about the rest. But good on you Soutpeel

[JingerBen]

Here in Thailand it's pronounced 'elf an' safety'.

[Soutpeel]

LOS is a third world country when it comes to EH&S....They copy western regulations but really don't understand how and why they are regs in the fiirst place...and thus the pirpose of them...

The enforcement arm in either non-existent or ineffective. My advice to you is to immplement common sense and just not do things b/c it saves a few bucks...

You can always find a western health and safety manager to look at blueprints, physical inspections, discuss western OSHA laws, etc to give you some perspective of what should be done regardless of what isn't done by Thais responsible for this important subject....

Example just b/c Thailand doesn't have Asbestos and Lead regs doesn't mean one should install these products in their workplace...

Apply common sense....

CB

So this is your expert opinion of the whole thai population based on many years experience in thai industry then ?

Some of western "safety managers" running around are some of biggest <deleted>@kwits about and on the whole don't have a clue, further OSHA regulations don't apply in Thailand and don't apply in most countries outside the US, including many western countries by the way so why cite OHSA ?

BTW Thailand does have asbestos and lead regulations

The problem generally speaking is enforcement but that doesn't mean some sectors of thai industry don't have very good safety policies and very good, (world class) safety statistics

You are generalising I know, but please don't suggest the west is the bee all and end all in safety, Some of the biggest safety cokc ups in history have been the west and the rates of fatalities and serious injuries in Thailand are far lower than most western countries even though its a 3 world country

In conclusion Thailand still has a way to go, but don't paint the whole population with same brush cos you're talking through your bottom

[Soutpeel]

And for purposes of completeness the government department your looking for is (last info I have) Occupational health and safety bureau 22/22 Mu 2 baromrachachonnanee road Chimple thaling chan Bangkok 10170 Tel 024488338

Two really good posts. One wonders about the rest. But good on you Soutpeel

Can't be too hard on the rest, as in most cases their exposure to safety in industry is watching a rice farmer trying to weld while sitting on a bar stool in isaan LOL

[GuestHouse]

Speaking as someone with experience of managing Thai staff in construction environments I have the following observation.

In the early 90s I worked on a major Oil and Gas Project in Thailand, from design right through construction to commissioning. The international client invested heavily in safety; a huge effort in training, safety supervision way above the legal minimum, safety promotion bonuses and contracts written with Safety as a primary requirement.

I was on site throughout the construction phase (a period of over two years), within a very short time the focus on safety started to pay a dividend. PPE compliance was near 100% - not just the stats put together by the safety team, I saw with my own eyes walking around site - near full compliance.

The project achieved a world standard safety record and was recognized for this with awards from independent international safety bodies.

It was and remains something I am proud to have been a part of.

Towards the end of the project I was having dinner with one of the main subcontractor manager ( a well educated and widely experienced Thai construction manager who went on to build an international career for himself) , discussing the past couple of years, all that we had achieved and yes that safety record.

"You miss understand" he said to me when I mentioned the fact that our hard work on safety had sent everyone home safe.

Then he adds 'It has nothing to do with managing safety its to do with Karma, the people on this project had good Karma, if they had not someone would have died".

So to him, a well educated, widely experienced Thai construction manager, safety is about Karma.

Its not that he hasn't played his part in full, he did, but he was doing what he was told to do to protect his bonus - he did not believe in what we were doing for safety, he just did it for the money.

Its easy to laugh that off, but at the heart of it is a cultural misunderstanding - Being Thai he's been raised with a set of beliefs around Karma. Being a westerner I've been raised on a belief in cause and effect which traces back through Newton to the ancient Greeks.

We simply do not see the world through the same lens.

What we can see is that Thai workers and Thai organizations can achieve world class safety but that this must come from management.

Now the problem. Those who say Thais don't understand Safety are wrong -ill educated Thais (and there are enough of those) do not. But many educated Thais do. We might point at the mass of overhead wiring hanging off poles throughout Thailand, but if we look at the national grid, the high voltage systems are installed and maintained to international standards.

Safety also costs. This too is understood.

Thai industrial safety is under direct control of the ministry for commerce. A Thai doctor making a diagnosis which states 'Industrial Injury' has in mind that his diagnosis is subject to ministry of commerce approval - if the ministry of commerce does not agree with the local doctor the local doctor can face serious criminal charges.

So we have in my time in Thailand cases of a large number of workers dying of what was reported by the hospital that treated them as 'heavy metal poisoning', later to be reported as a case of multiple simultaneous contraction and death from HIV AIDS.

This might seem backward, it is not, it was designed to be that way, And before we say it is corrupt, well yes it is, but keep in mind that before Piper Alpha safety on the North Sea oil rigs was controlled by the ministry of oil production,

There are many other safety issues in Thailand, corruption is at the heart of many, but it is wrong to say that Thai people cannot achieve safety or do not underhand safety. They might lack safety leadership and a safety regulation might be seen by others as a means to get a back hander - but they can achieve world class safety - I have been part of them doing so.

The challenge is to present safety to Thai people in a manner that it can be integrated to their own culture. That's a challenge to the safety professionals and the political/industrial leadership.

Education is of course a huge part of this, simple steps like integrating a safety message into a TV soap might work - but there is no political will to do so. I believe because it is understood that Safety is a cost to the bottom line.

As a parting note on this. Where I observed near 100% PPI compliance at my first site job in Thailand, my previous site posting had been in Grangemouth, Scotland - where construction workers had objected to wearing safety helmets because they said… the weather was too hot.

Read up on the history of safety back home…. its an eye opener.

[Soutpeel]

GH not going to quote your long post but well said your experiences in Thailand are similar to mine

[kratiam]

Hi....I recently had to survey some vehicles inside the port at Laem Chabang. Before being allowed in I had to undertake a H&S mini course (which included advice about urine colour indicating dehydration), wear steel toe cap boots, long trousers, long sleeve hi viz jacket, dark safety overspecs (& clear when we went inside a warehouse) hard hat & gloves. It was run by an Australian company and the rules were strictly adhered to - very impressive!. I have also surveyed vehicles at a body builders where there was too little space between vehicles, the ground was soft and welding/grinding was going on on the next vehicle. So you see, both ends of the spectrum........ Hope this helps?

[h90]

having a machining shop, we of course try to be safe and the things aren't very dangerous, if you don't bypass some safety already included in the machines.

But there are no checks, if I would take out every safety I wouldn't have to grease someone...there is no check...

[louse1953]

Why would you want to bypass OHS,just to suit your back pocket.Typical boss attitude.

[h90]

Why would you want to bypass OHS,just to suit your back pocket.Typical boss attitude.

It is very common even in Europe, or Germany to remove safety features to increase productivity.

[chrisinth]

LOS is a third world country when it comes to EH&S....They copy western regulations but really don't understand how and why they are regs in the fiirst place...and thus the pirpose of them...

The enforcement arm in either non-existent or ineffective. My advice to you is to immplement common sense and just not do things b/c it saves a few bucks...

You can always find a western health and safety manager to look at blueprints, physical inspections, discuss western OSHA laws, etc to give you some perspective of what should be done regardless of what isn't done by Thais responsible for this important subject....

Example just b/c Thailand doesn't have Asbestos and Lead regs doesn't mean one should install these products in their workplace...

Apply common sense....

CB

So this is your expert opinion of the whole thai population based on many years experience in thai industry then ?

Some of western "safety managers" running around are some of biggest <deleted>@kwits about and on the whole don't have a clue, further OSHA regulations don't apply in Thailand and don't apply in most countries outside the US, including many western countries by the way so why cite OHSA ?

BTW Thailand does have asbestos and lead regulations

The problem generally speaking is enforcement but that doesn't mean some sectors of thai industry don't have very good safety policies and very good, (world class) safety statistics

You are generalising I know, but please don't suggest the west is the bee all and end all in safety, Some of the biggest safety cokc ups in history have been the west and the rates of fatalities and serious injuries in Thailand are far lower than most western countries even though its a 3 world country

In conclusion Thailand still has a way to go, but don't paint the whole population with same brush cos you're talking through your bottom

"Some of western "safety managers" running around are some of biggest <deleted>@kwits about and on the whole don't have a clue"

That would have to be the quote of the thread.....................

Edit: It never fails to amaze me the number of 'Westerners' that think because of where they come from, that they know the job and can do it without qualification or certification

[Soutpeel]

LOS is a third world country when it comes to EH&S....They copy western regulations but really don't understand how and why they are regs in the fiirst place...and thus the pirpose of them...

The enforcement arm in either non-existent or ineffective. My advice to you is to immplement common sense and just not do things b/c it saves a few bucks...

You can always find a western health and safety manager to look at blueprints, physical inspections, discuss western OSHA laws, etc to give you some perspective of what should be done regardless of what isn't done by Thais responsible for this important subject....

Example just b/c Thailand doesn't have Asbestos and Lead regs doesn't mean one should install these products in their workplace...

Apply common sense....

CB

So this is your expert opinion of the whole thai population based on many years experience in thai industry then ?

Some of western "safety managers" running around are some of biggest <deleted>@kwits about and on the whole don't have a clue, further OSHA regulations don't apply in Thailand and don't apply in most countries outside the US, including many western countries by the way so why cite OHSA ?

BTW Thailand does have asbestos and lead regulations

The problem generally speaking is enforcement but that doesn't mean some sectors of thai industry don't have very good safety policies and very good, (world class) safety statistics

You are generalising I know, but please don't suggest the west is the bee all and end all in safety, Some of the biggest safety cokc ups in history have been the west and the rates of fatalities and serious injuries in Thailand are far lower than most western countries even though its a 3 world country

In conclusion Thailand still has a way to go, but don't paint the whole population with same brush cos you're talking through your bottom

"Some of western "safety managers" running around are some of biggest <deleted>@kwits about and on the whole don't have a clue"

That would have to be the quote of the thread.....................

Edit: It never fails to amaze me the number of 'Westerners' that think because of where they come from, that they know the job and can do it without qualification or certification

My favourite topic....safety numpties.....in 25 years in industry could count the ones I WOULD p@ss on if they were on fire on one hand

[bangon04]

LOS is a third world country when it comes to EH&S....They copy western regulations but really don't understand how and why they are regs in the fiirst place...and thus the pirpose of them...

The enforcement arm in either non-existent or ineffective. My advice to you is to immplement common sense and just not do things b/c it saves a few bucks...

You can always find a western health and safety manager to look at blueprints, physical inspections, discuss western OSHA laws, etc to give you some perspective of what should be done regardless of what isn't done by Thais responsible for this important subject....

Example just b/c Thailand doesn't have Asbestos and Lead regs doesn't mean one should install these products in their workplace...

Apply common sense....

CB

It could be a niche market for a tour operator in the UK: "Adventure Holidays for the H&S Executive" Come to Thailand to see how it is in the Land of the Free.

The correct way to climb bamboo scaffolding while wearing flip flops and a towel wrapped around your head to keep the sun off. The correct way to earth electricity mains cables by tying them to stainless steel pedestrian footbridges during monsoon season.

The correct way to eat som tam while hanging onto the running board of your overcrowded pickup truck taking you to and from your place of work (flip flops and towel as before).

There are so many things for the western H&S exec to wonder at. It will be a roller coaster ride of emotion. And of course a prize for the participant who can spot the greatest number of infringements ....

[thailiketoo]

It could be a niche market for a tour operator in the UK: "Adventure Holidays for the H&S Executive" Come to Thailand to see how it is in the Land of the Free.

The correct way to climb bamboo scaffolding while wearing flip flops and a towel wrapped around your head to keep the sun off. The correct way to earth electricity mains cables by tying them to stainless steel pedestrian footbridges during monsoon season.

The correct way to eat som tam while hanging onto the running board of your overcrowded pickup truck taking you to and from your place of work (flip flops and towel as before).

There are so many things for the western H&S exec to wonder at. It will be a roller coaster ride of emotion. And of course a prize for the participant who can spot the greatest number of infringements ....

This is a good example of why Western education and critical thinking is better than the Thai rote method of education.

I met the guy who was teaching Thais critical thinking and to look for new ways to earth electricity. The Thai old fashioned instructor wanted to teach the students to drive a conductive rod into the ground the same way he and his father had been taught by rote. The Thai instructor wanted the students to repeat, "drive the rod into the ground, boom boom boom, attach the wire, tie tie tie"

But the Western instructor kept harping on the value of critical thinking and not doing things the old way. He suggested trying different materials to ground electricity.

[WilliamCave]

LOS is a third world country when it comes to EH&S....They copy western regulations but really don't understand how and why they are regs in the fiirst place...and thus the pirpose of them...

The enforcement arm in either non-existent or ineffective. My advice to you is to immplement common sense and just not do things b/c it saves a few bucks...

You can always find a western health and safety manager to look at blueprints, physical inspections, discuss western OSHA laws, etc to give you some perspective of what should be done regardless of what isn't done by Thais responsible for this important subject....

Example just b/c Thailand doesn't have Asbestos and Lead regs doesn't mean one should install these products in their workplace...

Apply common sense....

CB

So this is your expert opinion of the whole thai population based on many years experience in thai industry then ?

Some of western "safety managers" running around are some of biggest <deleted>@kwits about and on the whole don't have a clue, further OSHA regulations don't apply in Thailand and don't apply in most countries outside the US, including many western countries by the way so why cite OHSA ?

BTW Thailand does have asbestos and lead regulations

The problem generally speaking is enforcement but that doesn't mean some sectors of thai industry don't have very good safety policies and very good, (world class) safety statistics

You are generalising I know, but please don't suggest the west is the bee all and end all in safety, Some of the biggest safety cokc ups in history have been the west and the rates of fatalities and serious injuries in Thailand are far lower than most western countries even though its a 3 world country

In conclusion Thailand still has a way to go, but don't paint the whole population with same brush cos you're talking through your bottom

I guess you never worked in Canada . Because our. Safety is very strict with OHS officers walking around on most construction sites

There is also what many companies call absolutes if you are caught as an example with out eye protection you get banned from working there and can be for life , depending on the infraction. And OHS do fine companies and indivuaks

It is taken very seriously in Canada

[thailiketoo]

I guess you never worked in Canada . Because our. Safety is very strict with OHS officers walking around on most construction sites

There is also what many companies call absolutes if you are caught as an example with out eye protection you get banned from working there and can be for life , depending on the infraction. And OHS do fine companies and indivuaks

It is taken very seriously in Canada

Between 2008 and 2010, there were a total of 2,988 deaths on the job in Canada.

Construction

• 700 deaths

The construction industry in Canada is the most deadly in terms of the number of fatalities.

Construction has the highest number of deaths of any industry in Canada, accounting for 23.3 per cent of all workplace fatalities between 2008 and 2010.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/3-most-dangerous-job-sectors-in-canada-1.1166583

[Soutpeel]

LOS is a third world country when it comes to EH&S....They copy western regulations but really don't understand how and why they are regs in the fiirst place...and thus the pirpose of them...

The enforcement arm in either non-existent or ineffective. My advice to you is to immplement common sense and just not do things b/c it saves a few bucks...

You can always find a western health and safety manager to look at blueprints, physical inspections, discuss western OSHA laws, etc to give you some perspective of what should be done regardless of what isn't done by Thais responsible for this important subject....

Example just b/c Thailand doesn't have Asbestos and Lead regs doesn't mean one should install these products in their workplace...

Apply common sense....

CB

So this is your expert opinion of the whole thai population based on many years experience in thai industry then ?

Some of western "safety managers" running around are some of biggest <deleted>@kwits about and on the whole don't have a clue, further OSHA regulations don't apply in Thailand and don't apply in most countries outside the US, including many western countries by the way so why cite OHSA ?

BTW Thailand does have asbestos and lead regulations

The problem generally speaking is enforcement but that doesn't mean some sectors of thai industry don't have very good safety policies and very good, (world class) safety statistics

You are generalising I know, but please don't suggest the west is the bee all and end all in safety, Some of the biggest safety cokc ups in history have been the west and the rates of fatalities and serious injuries in Thailand are far lower than most western countries even though its a 3 world country

In conclusion Thailand still has a way to go, but don't paint the whole population with same brush cos you're talking through your bottom

I guess you never worked in Canada . Because our. Safety is very strict with OHS officers walking around on most construction sites

There is also what many companies call absolutes if you are caught as an example with out eye protection you get banned from working there and can be for life , depending on the infraction. And OHS do fine companies and indivuaks

It is taken very seriously in Canada

Having OHS walking round a site means nothing if they don't know what they a looking at, and you have cited the typical expert knowledge of a lot of safety "officers" " professionals" "advisors" or what ever flavour of month job title they give themselves......".put your safety glasses on" LOL

Don't get me wrong I am all for health and safety, but what I take exception to is some numpty who hasnt got a clue running round a site like a dog on heat making things "safe" and in fact making the job more dangerous

[Soutpeel]

It could be a niche market for a tour operator in the UK: "Adventure Holidays for the H&S Executive" Come to Thailand to see how it is in the Land of the Free.

The correct way to climb bamboo scaffolding while wearing flip flops and a towel wrapped around your head to keep the sun off. The correct way to earth electricity mains cables by tying them to stainless steel pedestrian footbridges during monsoon season.

The correct way to eat som tam while hanging onto the running board of your overcrowded pickup truck taking you to and from your place of work (flip flops and towel as before).

There are so many things for the western H&S exec to wonder at. It will be a roller coaster ride of emotion. And of course a prize for the participant who can spot the greatest number of infringements ....

This is a good example of why Western education and critical thinking is better than the Thai rote method of education.

I met the guy who was teaching Thais critical thinking and to look for new ways to earth electricity. The Thai old fashioned instructor wanted to teach the students to drive a conductive rod into the ground the same way he and his father had been taught by rote. The Thai instructor wanted the students to repeat, "drive the rod into the ground, boom boom boom, attach the wire, tie tie tie"

But the Western instructor kept harping on the value of critical thinking and not doing things the old way. He suggested trying different materials to ground electricity.

Interesting observation as what I have learned in Thailand as regards Thai nationals, even the "uneducated" ones, once you show them the proper and safe way to do something, they will do it the same way time and time again without deviation and if someone new comes into the fold they really will get stuck into the person if that person is not doing it the way they were shown, even including the safety aspects

Personally after 25 years in industry some of the most dangerous places I have worked have been in the so called first world countries with the "robust" HES Nazi's running around

Certainly in the industry I am in in Thailand the safety is on par with if not better than a lot of western countries I have worked in

[thailiketoo]

I would advise you to read previous posts on TV.

Health and safety in Thailand

What are you saying?...Thais always have steel toecap shoes and safety hats on their super-safe looking bamboo scaffolds!!...555

It has been said that the during the British occupation of Hong Kong, the British insisted on using steel for scaffolding in constructing buildings in the island. The Chinese insisted on the use of bamboos for shelving. In the 1920s, wanting to prove that bamboo is weak compared to steel, the British tested bamboos at the Oxford University. However the result was shocking- bamboo proved to be similar in strength to steel.

There was also an incident in the 1950s in Hong Kong when two buildings similar in height were constructed, one using bamboo scaffolds while the other steel shelving. The bamboo scaffold was built quickly compared to the steel scaffold. When a typhoon came, the steel scaffold collapsed, while the bamboo stayed firm!

http://ezinearticles.com/?Should-You-Use-Bamboo-Scaffolding?&id=3745859

[Doc 69]

I am one of those safety types hanging around.

There are laws governing safety and health. As one poster stated, it depends on your operation.

If you have further questions and any particular guidance let me know here.

[cardinalblue]

Soutpeel,

Thailand wouldn't even have most of their OSHA and EPA regulations if it wasn't for the west. All they do is copy them from the west and then say 'we have regulations". Yes, they don't enforce them, do proper inspections or follow-up, have any research structure to do their own research or educational institutions to help or assist Thai companies for implementation...

Thailand is no different than other dev or other 3rd world Asian countriy. So it's not a just Thai thing. Blame it on poverty, lack of resources, education, whatever...

When I say they don't understand safety regulations, I will stand behind that. When you just adopt foreign regulations as they are forced to by interacting with multi-national companies or western countries, it's not a bad thing but it doesn't mean they understand why they are doing it (pain-staking and costly research maybe years in the making), what goes into making a law then a regulation, then an enforcement program then a monitoring and follow-up plan..

Safety and health concepts are absent from the Thai psyche individually and institutionally. You know damn well w/o an effective enforcement program non-compliance runs rampant. The bottom line is, it doesn't matter if you have regs b/c w/o enforcement and meaningful training programs in place no effective change will happen.

Yes, i am talking in generalizations and if you want specifics I'll give you workplace specifics in another post...

You make it sound like the gov, companies, workers buy into health and safety and they fall down only here and there and only need to a few years to catch up. I would argue that safety, health, and environmental protection are not valued in their culture and thus are absent in their consciousness and statistics reflect this....

Safety is a serious subject and it just doen't fit into the Thai culture composing of tradition, face, status quo, social harmony, fun-loving, non-competitive, lack of accountability, institutionized corruption, style over substance, lack of commitment to change, anti law and order, emotional decision-making, unwillingness to accept constructive criticism, image over integrity, an extremely poor public educational system, etc. There is nothing wrong with their culture as for the most part it works for them; it is what is it, but these attributes are immense barriers for a safety culture for nourishment, growth and a reinforcing looping effect which eventually creates a systems effect feeding off itself...

Kudos to the poster who said Thais need to create safety systems that are their own ideas, internalized and their people and public accept, believe in and willing to comply with...It would be much better than to go overseas and bring back foreign health and safety ideas, turn them into their own regulations and then say 'we do what the west ts doing"....

Thailand does many things well but improving thier general/public and workplace health, safety and environmental protection receive extremely low marks...

I wonder where the expression "life is so cheap in Asia" comes from?

CB

[thailiketoo]

Soutpeel,

Thailand wouldn't even have most of their OSHA and EPA regulations if it wasn't for the west. All they do is copy them from the west and then say 'we have regulations". Yes, they don't enforce them, do proper inspections or follow-up, have any research structure to do their own research or educational institutions to help or assist Thai companies for implementation...

Thailand is no different than other dev or other 3rd world Asian countriy. So it's not a just Thai thing. Blame it on poverty, lack of resources, education, whatever...

When I say they don't understand safety regulations, I will stand behind that. When you just adopt foreign regulations as they are forced to by interacting with multi-national companies or western countries, it's not a bad thing but it doesn't mean they understand why they are doing it (pain-staking and costly research maybe years in the making), what goes into making a law then a regulation, then an enforcement program then a monitoring and follow-up plan..

Safety and health concepts are absent from the Thai psyche individually and institutionally. You know dam_n well w/o an effective enforcement program non-compliance runs rampant. The bottom line is, it doesn't matter if you have regs b/c w/o enforcement and meaningful training programs in place no effective change will happen.

Yes, i am talking in generalizations and if you want specifics I'll give you workplace specifics in another post...

You make it sound like the gov, companies, workers buy into health and safety and they fall down only here and there and only need to a few years to catch up. I would argue that safety, health, and environmental protection are not valued in their culture and thus are absent in their consciousness and statistics reflect this....

Safety is a serious subject and it just doen't fit into the Thai culture composing of tradition, face, status quo, social harmony, fun-loving, non-competitive, lack of accountability, institutionized corruption, style over substance, lack of commitment to change, anti law and order, emotional decision-making, unwillingness to accept constructive criticism, image over integrity, an extremely poor public educational system, etc. There is nothing wrong with their culture as for the most part it works for them; it is what is it, but these attributes are immense barriers for a safety culture for nourishment, growth and a reinforcing looping effect which eventually creates a systems effect feeding off itself...

Kudos to the poster who said Thais need to create safety systems that are their own ideas, internalized and their people and public accept, believe in and willing to comply with...It would be much better than to go overseas and bring back foreign health and safety ideas, turn them into their own regulations and then say 'we do what the west ts doing"....

Thailand does many things well but improving thier general/public and workplace health, safety and environmental protection receive extremely low marks...

I wonder where the expression "life is so cheap in Asia" comes from?

CB

People from the West who don't work in Thailand and get their information from INTERNET forums rather than real life.

[Soutpeel]

Soutpeel,

Thailand wouldn't even have most of their OSHA and EPA regulations if it wasn't for the west. All they do is copy them from the west and then say 'we have regulations". Yes, they don't enforce them, do proper inspections or follow-up, have any research structure to do their own research or educational institutions to help or assist Thai companies for implementation...

Thailand is no different than other dev or other 3rd world Asian countriy. So it's not a just Thai thing. Blame it on poverty, lack of resources, education, whatever...

When I say they don't understand safety regulations, I will stand behind that. When you just adopt foreign regulations as they are forced to by interacting with multi-national companies or western countries, it's not a bad thing but it doesn't mean they understand why they are doing it (pain-staking and costly research maybe years in the making), what goes into making a law then a regulation, then an enforcement program then a monitoring and follow-up plan..

Safety and health concepts are absent from the Thai psyche individually and institutionally. You know dam_n well w/o an effective enforcement program non-compliance runs rampant. The bottom line is, it doesn't matter if you have regs b/c w/o enforcement and meaningful training programs in place no effective change will happen.

Yes, i am talking in generalizations and if you want specifics I'll give you workplace specifics in another post...

You make it sound like the gov, companies, workers buy into health and safety and they fall down only here and there and only need to a few years to catch up. I would argue that safety, health, and environmental protection are not valued in their culture and thus are absent in their consciousness and statistics reflect this....

Safety is a serious subject and it just doen't fit into the Thai culture composing of tradition, face, status quo, social harmony, fun-loving, non-competitive, lack of accountability, institutionized corruption, style over substance, lack of commitment to change, anti law and order, emotional decision-making, unwillingness to accept constructive criticism, image over integrity, an extremely poor public educational system, etc. There is nothing wrong with their culture as for the most part it works for them; it is what is it, but these attributes are immense barriers for a safety culture for nourishment, growth and a reinforcing looping effect which eventually creates a systems effect feeding off itself...

Kudos to the poster who said Thais need to create safety systems that are their own ideas, internalized and their people and public accept, believe in and willing to comply with...It would be much better than to go overseas and bring back foreign health and safety ideas, turn them into their own regulations and then say 'we do what the west ts doing"....

Thailand does many things well but improving thier general/public and workplace health, safety and environmental protection receive extremely low marks...

I wonder where the expression "life is so cheap in Asia" comes from?

CB

People from the West who don't work in Thailand and get their information from INTERNET forums rather than real life.

Agreed

80% of what he is spouting on about is certainly not my experience in industry in Thailand and really can't be arsed answering point for point, but will say not buying into a safety culture is not uniquely a Thai trait, and as stated previously some the most dangerous work places I have ever worked in where in western countries and specifically the US, which full of " cowboys" and literally the most dangerous individuals I have ever worked with and when first experiencing this I was truely shocked that the standards were so low