PDRC claims 6 million people in Bangkok turn out to protest yesterday

[jamesalias]

Well, they said its 5.6 million. -- 20 million more if consider people who couldn't make it to Bangkok. Either ways, 5.6 million is more than enough to offset the 5 million votes deficit they had in the previous election. They should win this time. ---- Why boycott the elections then?

Edited December 23, 2013 by jamesalias

[thairookie]

6 million ? That is more than the entire population of Thailand's neighbour, the Republic of Singapore.

BTW, it's more than the entire population of Denmark.

Suthep has his own little fiefdom that is not inferior to Singapore and Denmark.

[jamesalias]

Besides, I don't understand what the folks are so proud of - with regards to the protests and the number of protesters? Its not as if all these millions are demanding democratic elections - are they? ARE they? What's so honorable or noble in demanding for an un-elected People's Assembly? Or did they not know what they were out there protesting for? --- Seriously? In fact, the more number of people at these particular rallies, the more embarrassing it is. Its different from three weeks ago, when there were people on the streets demanding the government to gut the Amnesty bill. That's done, parliament's dissolved, elections scheduled --- what now?

Edited December 23, 2013 by jamesalias

[BestBitterPhuket]

Many western news reports say "tens if thousands". The habitual liar named Suthep, just included ever person present in Bangkok that day.

[thailiketoo]

Not sure, if you guys got this article, on TV yet, as I don't spend most of my waking hours posting on here, but I found it to be a good article and pretty much agree with everything I know about, in it....

http://www.globalresearch.ca/thailand-regime-is-not-democratically-elected-wall-streets-proxy-government/5360153

Your link has nothing to do with the topic. There seems to be a number of people hyping one blogger who writes stories critical of the government and this is another go at that.

[thailiketoo]

Please, get some objectivity into your argument. It is widely known that the previous election was a travesty of Shiniwatara and PTP manipulation , bought votes and outright fraud. The current opposition want reforms in place prior to any election in order to try to obtain a true objective on the voting practise. An election now would simple lead to more of the same and perhaps you have not noticed but there are many in Thailand that have simply had enough of this goverments malfeasance ,ineptitude and outright corruption. Insanity is in doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.. The people of Isan are no more special than any other area in Thailand with the exception that the Shiniwatara's have successful exploited and manipulated them for personal gain. The PTP cares not about the poor and rural but only about votes. If they are truly on the side of the poor then ask yourself why they have done bugger all to alleviate the rampant terrorism that prevails in the South. If the south voted PTP I am sure help would be forthcoming however ,thankfully they have a little more integrity than their cousins in the north.

What does your post have to do with how many protestors turned out to protest?

[ourmanflint]

FYI Sanam Luang is 118,500 square meters, enough to fit 490,000 people comfortably at 3.5 people per square meter, upto 600,000 at 5 people per square metre. Photos seem to show high density crowds so most of the low figures are complete nonsense. Lots of politico calculators working overtime me thinks.

[Tywais]

Wow, calculations by "architect scientists with experience in urban and aerial designs". Of course it must be accurate and all that...

Do they realize just how much 6 million people really is...??

A person standing takes up roughly 1 square meter. So for one location, 2 million people, that would be 2 square kilometers if packed shoulder to shoulder.

What absolute twaddle! You have no idea what youre talking about much like most of the nay sayers here!

Look here for a more informed opinion on crowd density http://www.gkstill.com/Support/crowd-density/625sm/Density6.html

Perhaps your reading comprehension needs work. The normal excepted space an individual standing up takes is 1 square yard or 1 square meter. I stipulated the area that crowd would take up if "standing shoulder to shoulder", in other words maximum density. I would assume one would be intelligent enough to extrapolate from that the total space as in a crowd will be significantly larger. It was simply putting perspective on the numbers.

[LuukKoeyKorat]

Well if comes down to numbers in street protest in the end - then the next step is for the Red;s to show their cards both in Bangkok and provincially and then for fights, burning down of government building's and the like. Then before you know it the problem escalates out of control, the army comes in coup and then back to square one. At some point there's going to be a civil war which in other asian countries has manifested in the past as anti-Chinese sentiment but will be more nuanced here in Thailand but will have large elements of the rural Thai Thai's against the Bangkok sino-Thai elite. The poor of Thailand have got the message loud and clear doesn't matter who or how many times you vote we will steal the result away from you time and time again.

Please, get some objectivity into your argument. It is widely known that the previous election was a travesty of Shiniwatara and PTP manipulation , bought votes and outright fraud. The current opposition want reforms in place prior to any election in order to try to obtain a true objective on the voting practise. An election now would simple lead to more of the same and perhaps you have not noticed but there are many in Thailand that have simply had enough of this goverments malfeasance ,ineptitude and outright corruption. Insanity is in doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.. The people of Isan are no more special than any other area in Thailand with the exception that the Shiniwatara's have successful exploited and manipulated them for personal gain. The PTP cares not about the poor and rural but only about votes. If they are truly on the side of the poor then ask yourself why they have done bugger all to alleviate the rampant terrorism that prevails in the South. If the south voted PTP I am sure help would be forthcoming however ,thankfully they have a little more integrity than their cousins in the north.

Well, lets get some political reforms in place then! BUT they are not going to happen by holding a constitutionally-demanded election to hostage...a proper (democratic) process is to stand for elections, sell your political and reform ideas to ALL the electorate and put it to the vote. Making the election wholly 'conditional' on 'pre election reforms' totally undermines the democratic values that Southep is selling as the moral champion he aspires to be right now. If he is serious about the good of the country (and not just for himself and the peoples he represents), then he should offer to negotiate, and compromise, (and win compromises!) on the issues at hand. Without the caretaker government or the opposition making the effort to come to any sort of future agreement..these deep divisions will continue for a long time. Too long.

[asiaexpat]

In the late 1970s and early 1980s I flew a Piper Chieftain with photo gear over Mecca to record the Hadjj scene for analysis. The Saudi government spent a lot of time and money to derive an accurate method of counting people using our pictures. The method developed became quit accurate, so it has been proven that photo imagery can be used to count people with a certain degree of accuracy. However, from observing the 1 to 2 million Hadjjis from the air as well as looking at the photos publicly available, I find 6 million to a little high.

[chrisrazz]

Certainly there needs to be a rethink about standing at the election if these figures are to be believed. Any decent journalist would be posing that question right now. I would imagine that the military could also ask the same question, particularly as this is all about forcing them into the fray.

[Mackie]

Not sure, if you guys got this article, on TV yet, as I don't spend most of my waking hours posting on here, but I found it to be a good article and pretty much agree with everything I know about, in it....

http://www.globalresearch.ca/thailand-regime-is-not-democratically-elected-wall-streets-proxy-government/5360153

Your link has nothing to do with the topic. There seems to be a number of people hyping one blogger who writes stories critical of the government and this is another go at that.

It actually has everything to do with the topic. That's the main reason people get out and about, to get rid of the Wall Street proxy government which is ready to sell out their own country cheaply. One just has to have a look across the border to see how Thaksin's best mate Hun Sen privitised Cambodia's national assets. That's how Thaksin and his cronies envisage Thailand's future. Thais are wise enough to avoid the same trap Cambodians fell into.

[ourmanflint]

Perhaps your reading comprehension needs work. The normal excepted space an individual standing up takes is 1 square yard or 1 square meter. I stipulated the area that crowd would take up if "standing shoulder to shoulder", in other words maximum density. I would assume one would be intelligent enough to extrapolate from that the total space as in a crowd will be significantly larger. It was simply putting perspective on the numbers.

Thanks for your input, but 1 person per sq meter is not standing at max density, that would be 5 per sq meter and yes they would be shoulder to shoulder then.

[thailiketoo]

In the late 1970s and early 1980s I flew a Piper Chieftain with photo gear over Mecca to record the Hadjj scene for analysis. The Saudi government spent a lot of time and money to derive an accurate method of counting people using our pictures. The method developed became quit accurate, so it has been proven that photo imagery can be used to count people with a certain degree of accuracy. However, from observing the 1 to 2 million Hadjjis from the air as well as looking at the photos publicly available, I find 6 million to a little high.

What number would think is accurate?

[jamesalias]

Btw - What are these pre-election reforms that are proposed? What are the specifics and where can I read them, please?

[kannot]

Sometimes I read about the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC),at other times about the the People's Committee for Absolute Democracy, both led by Suthep Thaugsuban. What is the difference between these two committees? Who are the committee members, in addition to Suthep?

Its like the Peoples Front of Judea, or is it the Judean peoples Front??? Better ask Brian!

[philw]

Doesn't really matter what the numbers were they proved their point that they can bring the center of BKK to a standstill, showing that they can do it again.

If there are no serious moves towards reform in the very near future and the election goes ahead on 2 Feb then it will happen again and it will be for a longer period next time.

Over to you Yingluck wherever you are hiding.

The numbers quoted are not reliable nor even close. It would have been physically impossible to fit all of those people in the protest zones.

The only numbers that count will be at the ballot box.

The numbers are not as the trend and the message that trend relays. The trend is that the numbers of protestors is increasing and this protest movement is still growing. More people are getting off the fence and voting with their feet, while other have had the epiphany that the Thaksin proxy government is ego centric and corrupt not socialist. The message is that they are tired of corrupt governments that change the laws and constitution to suit their own agenda, they will no longer tolerate the machinations of criminals and con men within their government. They are tired of having the wool pulled over their eyes with schemes that pillage the treasure or policies implemented under the guise of helping the poor only to enslave them.

The supporters of the Yingluck government claim they have the majority but even at the height of their popularity they were unable to get these numbers to any of their sanctioned protests, even though they paid them to attend and covered their expenses. Therefore, it is further evident that the message is that the corrupt and self centered actions of this administration over the last 2 and a half years have further alienated them and reduced their mandate. They have recognised this as evidenced by the dissolution of their parliament and are now trying to engineer a victory from the jaws of defeat.

So, with such massive and overwhelming support, why can't the Democrat party contest and win an election based on their policies, their proposals for reform and the betterment of Thailand ??

If you have about 1/2 the population of the capital city on the street and supporting you, there cannot be any risk in going to the electorate, can there ?

Those sad, pitiful, red shirt demo's only mustered a 100,000 or so and still garnered 15.5 million votes.

The answer, of course, is that the Dems simply do not want elections, it's not their agenda and they know they are unelectable.

As a final point, it's one thing to boycott an election, quite another to forcibly obstruct and prevent parties and public from registering their intention to participate in an election.

The latter is seriously criminal and all involved deserve arrest and trial.

My guess is that it is this act that will be Sutheps nemesis.

Hard times are coming.

[philw]

Btw - What are these pre-election reforms that are proposed? What are the specifics and where can I read them, please?

They don't exist.

That's the devil in the detail.....

[pumpuiman]

Gentlemen,

It is quite easy to estimate the numbers in recent photographs. Enlarge the photo on your computer, then count 100 people in a tightly packed area, make note of the size of this "block". Now estimate 10 of these blocks, this is your 1000 people block. Now count how many 1000 people blocks in the photo.

Even allowing for my calculations to be vastly underestimated ( count and then double or triple the number, or halve the size of your "blocks") the numbers are never more than 200,000.

Please try this yourself.

Also, there are buses in the victory monument photo. Overestimate the amount of people that can occupy the same space as a bus. I guessed 50...but tripled my estimate to be sure... 150 for each "bus sized block"

Now see how many buses will fit in the photo. There is absolutely no way to fit 1000 buses in the photo area (which would be 150,000 people.)

I challenge any one to try.

[jamesalias]

Doesn't really matter what the numbers were they proved their point that they can bring the center of BKK to a standstill, showing that they can do it again.

If there are no serious moves towards reform in the very near future and the election goes ahead on 2 Feb then it will happen again and it will be for a longer period next time.

Over to you Yingluck wherever you are hiding.

The numbers quoted are not reliable nor even close. It would have been physically impossible to fit all of those people in the protest zones.

The only numbers that count will be at the ballot box.

The numbers are not as the trend and the message that trend relays. The trend is that the numbers of protestors is increasing and this protest movement is still growing. More people are getting off the fence and voting with their feet, while other have had the epiphany that the Thaksin proxy government is ego centric and corrupt not socialist. The message is that they are tired of corrupt governments that change the laws and constitution to suit their own agenda, they will no longer tolerate the machinations of criminals and con men within their government. They are tired of having the wool pulled over their eyes with schemes that pillage the treasure or policies implemented under the guise of helping the poor only to enslave them.

The supporters of the Yingluck government claim they have the majority but even at the height of their popularity they were unable to get these numbers to any of their sanctioned protests, even though they paid them to attend and covered their expenses. Therefore, it is further evident that the message is that the corrupt and self centered actions of this administration over the last 2 and a half years have further alienated them and reduced their mandate. They have recognised this as evidenced by the dissolution of their parliament and are now trying to engineer a victory from the jaws of defeat.

So, with such massive and overwhelming support, why can't the Democrat party contest and win an election based on their policies, their proposals for reform and the betterment of Thailand ??

If you have about 1/2 the population of the capital city on the street and supporting you, there cannot be any risk in going to the electorate, can there ?

Those sad, pitiful, red shirt demo's only mustered a 100,000 or so and still garnered 15.5 million votes.

The answer, of course, is that the Dems simply do not want elections, it's not their agenda and they know they are unelectable.

As a final point, it's one thing to boycott an election, quite another to forcibly obstruct and prevent parties and public from registering their intention to participate in an election.

The latter is seriously criminal and all involved deserve arrest and trial.

My guess is that it is this act that will be Sutheps nemesis.

Hard times are coming.

What is their end game, btw? (Right now).

[recycler]

Architects are capable of sending cubic invoices for straight lines, no surprise they count 6 mil....

[jamesalias]

Urmm, THIS is 1 million people. (Confirmed)

[jamesalias]

Yup, this is what 1.1 million people looks like.

And the estimates are from FOX news. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/20/obamas-inauguration-attracts-crowds-million/

-- so its GOT to be true.

[aussieinthailand]

6 million,,,, Not a chance. but ok if they can 6 million protester's then there should be no problem to go and vote and take government this time without stealing it like last time... again NO CHANCE!!!

[Diplomatico]

Six million, lol. I was at Asoke yesterday, standing in the middle of the intersection amongst the protesters (bit of a party, actually) and the crowd would have perhaps filled my local hometown football stadium (approximately 50,000 people.) Multiply that times five and we're talking 250,000 "protesters" most of whom - at Asoke - weren't really paying attention to the speeches but were taking photos, laughing with their friends, and queuing to purchase street food.

****Baiting comments edited out of post****

Edited December 23, 2013 by metisdead
Removed baiting comments.

[Mackie]

Six million, lol. I was at Asoke yesterday, standing in the middle of the intersection amongst the protesters (bit of a party, actually) and the crowd would have perhaps filled my local hometown football stadium (approximately 50,000 people.) Multiply that times five and we're talking 250,000 "protesters" most of whom - at Asoke - weren't really paying attention to the speeches but were taking photos, laughing with their friends, and queuing to purchase street food.

I'm surprised Dribbles hasn't weighed in with an estimate of 12 million, LMAO.

So you physically managed to observe 250,000 protesters (somehow you missed another million) and established that most of them weren't paying attention to the speeches but were taking photos and laughing with their friends? That was quite a herculean effort mate. Well done. Stop kidding yourself.

[Diplomatico]

Six million, lol. I was at Asoke yesterday, standing in the middle of the intersection amongst the protesters (bit of a party, actually) and the crowd would have perhaps filled my local hometown football stadium (approximately 50,000 people.) Multiply that times five and we're talking 250,000 "protesters" most of whom - at Asoke - weren't really paying attention to the speeches but were taking photos, laughing with their friends, and queuing to purchase street food.

I'm surprised Dribbles hasn't weighed in with an estimate of 12 million, LMAO.

So you physically managed to observe 250,000 protesters (somehow you missed another million) and established that most of them weren't paying attention to the speeches but were taking photos and laughing with their friends? That was quite a herculean effort mate. Well done. Stop kidding yourself.

Uh, no. If you had read my post for content and comprehension, I was at ONE site....Asoke and I estimated that at 50,000. There were five major rally points. So - let's do the math - 5 times 50,000 is 250,000 (in my country anyway.)

I don't think I missed "another million" at Asoke. Nor do I think there were a million total protestors in the entire city, based upon what I witnessed (and based upon what I've read in independent news organizations, which put the estimates at "tens of thousands". My estimate of 250,000 seems pretty generous compared to that, eh?)

I love how people who aren't even in Bangkok weigh in with their estimates of crowd size.

[Loles]

6 Million ???

and if this dream would be true why are they scared at all for election ???

before when they were 150 000, benito suthep told 5 Million

next time they will be 66 Million, than 95 Million cause other countries also will be joined, this is not question ...

Edited December 23, 2013 by Loles

[cacruden]

Six million, lol. I was at Asoke yesterday, standing in the middle of the intersection amongst the protesters (bit of a party, actually) and the crowd would have perhaps filled my local hometown football stadium (approximately 50,000 people.) Multiply that times five and we're talking 250,000 "protesters" most of whom - at Asoke - weren't really paying attention to the speeches but were taking photos, laughing with their friends, and queuing to purchase street food.

I'm surprised Dribbles hasn't weighed in with an estimate of 12 million, LMAO.

So you physically managed to observe 250,000 protesters (somehow you missed another million) and established that most of them weren't paying attention to the speeches but were taking photos and laughing with their friends? That was quite a herculean effort mate. Well done. Stop kidding yourself.

Uh, no. If you had read my post for content and comprehension, I was at ONE site....Asoke and I estimated that at 50,000. There were five major rally points. So - let's do the math - 5 times 50,000 is 250,000 (in my country anyway.)

I don't think I missed "another million" at Asoke. Nor do I think there were a million total protestors in the entire city, based upon what I witnessed (and based upon what I've read in independent news organizations, which put the estimates at "tens of thousands". My estimate of 250,000 seems pretty generous compared to that, eh?)

I love how people who aren't even in Bangkok weigh in with their estimates of crowd size.

Asoke did not have 50,000, I stopped by there. It looked smaller than an anti-nuclear demonstration in Toronto - I would estimate maybe 10,000 at that intersection. It was already thinning out just past the traffic lights. BTW, I am using personal experience of a demonstration which was confirmed at 15,000 and Asoke looked maybe 2/3 that size.

Edited December 23, 2013 by cacruden

[Diplomatico]

Six million, lol. I was at Asoke yesterday, standing in the middle of the intersection amongst the protesters (bit of a party, actually) and the crowd would have perhaps filled my local hometown football stadium (approximately 50,000 people.) Multiply that times five and we're talking 250,000 "protesters" most of whom - at Asoke - weren't really paying attention to the speeches but were taking photos, laughing with their friends, and queuing to purchase street food.

I'm surprised Dribbles hasn't weighed in with an estimate of 12 million, LMAO.

So you physically managed to observe 250,000 protesters (somehow you missed another million) and established that most of them weren't paying attention to the speeches but were taking photos and laughing with their friends? That was quite a herculean effort mate. Well done. Stop kidding yourself.

Uh, no. If you had read my post for content and comprehension, I was at ONE site....Asoke and I estimated that at 50,000. There were five major rally points. So - let's do the math - 5 times 50,000 is 250,000 (in my country anyway.)

I don't think I missed "another million" at Asoke. Nor do I think there were a million total protestors in the entire city, based upon what I witnessed (and based upon what I've read in independent news organizations, which put the estimates at "tens of thousands". My estimate of 250,000 seems pretty generous compared to that, eh?)

I love how people who aren't even in Bangkok weigh in with their estimates of crowd size.

Asoke did not have 50,000, I stopped by there. It looked smaller than an anti-nuclear demonstration in Toronto - I would estimate maybe 10,000 at that intersection. It was already thinning out just past the traffic lights.

Remind me not to attend an anti-nuclear rally in Toronto.