Retire to Chiang Mai?

[RickNuNu]

I'm a 57 year old retired male from the States seriously considering moving to Chiang Mai. I have heard so many great things about Chiang Mai. Welcoming people, great climate, great food, beautiful women, very affordable living conditions. And recently Chiang Mai was listed in Forbes Magazine as one of the top 5 places in the world to retire to.

But when I read your posts on "Thai Visa Forum" and you the people that actually moved here, many of you make it sound like you are not happy with Chiang Mai and your decision to relocate here. Corrupt police and government, unfriendly locals, smog/smoke, bad drivers and worse traffic conditions, locals and government out to "take all your money", immigration problems, etc.

Are you unhappy with your decision to move to Chiang Mai, would you have been better off in Costa Rica, Mexico, Ecuador, Nicaragua, etc? Do any of you regret your decision to move to Chiang Mai?

I've heard that only 30% of the people that move to Costa Rica actually stay in Costa Rica longer than a year. Does anyone have any idea what that statistic might be for Chiang Mai?

Thank you in advance for your thoughtful responses!

[FiftyTwo]

"Are you unhappy with your decision to move to Chiang Mai, would you have been better off in Costa Rica, Mexico, Ecuador, Nicaragua, etc? Do any of you regret your decision to move to Chiang Mai?

I've heard that only 30% of the people that move to Costa Rica actually stay in Costa Rica longer than a year. Does anyone have any idea what that statistic might be for Chiang Mai?"

I love it here, unfortunately many post readers confuse "understanding reality" with "unhappiness or hate".

The are many minor and major problems with Thailand, but the girls, yum yum.

I only came here for two weeks, but ended up staying five years.

Best five years of my life (so far).

If anyone had told me, ten years ago, that I would be having the best sex of my life with the prettiest girls I ever got my hands on, in my 60s, I would have laughed in their face.

But to be truthful, I spend most of my time running, watching movies, and having coffee with the guys.

Great bunch of guys from all over the world in CM, really easy to meet people and make good friends.

My day today.

6:30 Woken up by my step-daughter, dad, drive me to school. (Brrrr ....chilly on the m/c).

7:45 Park at the back of the zoo, run up to Wat Doi Suthep and back. (perfect running weather, hardly even sweat)

9:05 Run up again, cos I passed some pals, but couldn't stop and chat first time as pushing my record.

10:00 Hang out at the coffee shop, about 5-10 of us go there each day.

11:30 Zip off to Festival Mall with a couple of the guys, spend an hour looking at girls, then have lunch.

14:00 Home, to see wife and kids.

16:00 Collect step-daughter, shop at Makro on way home, buy some sticky rice for dinner.

18:00 Post on TV while the wife puts baby to bed.

It was a typical day, life doesn't get much better than this.

Edited December 23, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[Oscar2]

Thailand is a very dangerous place. you put your life at risk every time you drive a vehicle, use electricity, walk down a street, etc. it's not for everybody. Chiang Mai has terrible air quality a few months out of the year. personally i don't think the women are anything special. they are the same in every country of the world. i like Thailand for its beaches and enjoy outdoor activities here. depends what you are looking for.

[uptheos]

OP "I've heard that only 30% of the people that move to Costa Rica actually stay in Costa Rica longer than a year".

But what a year!!

Have you seen the women in Costa Rica?

Any more than a year and my body would go into serious decline.

The way Chiang Mai is going I would say, no-one under 70, unless married to a Thai or has other commitments, should bother moving here.

Edited December 23, 2013 by uptheos

[roger1999]

I don't know anyone who has moved here and then decided to leave. The exception would be the very young English teachers who stay and few years and then head back home for better work opportunities. I greatly prefer Chiang Mai and SE Asia in general vs. Latin America, but you really need to come here and give it a try before making any major decisions. My two cents.

[worgeordie]

Your too late you should have been here years ago,funny thing is I was

on my way to Costa Rica the long way around,as I had been there a few

years before,and liked it very much,ended up in Chiang Mai,that was 25

years ago,Life has been good to me here,so never felt the need to leave.

regards Worgeordie

[beau thai]

In my view, and every one has different views, Chiang Mai is a great place to retire. I think that to settle happily outside your own country you need to be adaptable, and accept that, as a guest in another country (and you will be a guest for years if not forever) , you have to bend to their ways, customs and beliefs and not expect the opposite.

Many TV members are critical of CM, (and it is very easy to be critical of everywhere!),but they stay here. I figure smart people who are really disaffected will go find somewhere else to be happy, right? So despite the drawbacks, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages for longstayers.

But my advice (and free advice is only worth what you paid for it!) is to spend more than a holiday anywhere that you are considering retiring to (6 weeks if possible) and talk to as many expats as you can top help form your own views. So maybe in 2014 you get to spend 6 weeks in Chiang Mai and 6 weeks in Costa Rica-life could be worse eh?!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[CMfoodie]

But when I read your posts on "Thai Visa Forum" and you the people that actually moved here, many of you make it sound like you are not happy with Chiang Mai and your decision to relocate here. Corrupt police and government, (yes) unfriendly locals,(yes, like anywhere in the world) smog/smoke,(only Mid January-April) bad drivers and worse traffic conditions,(yes) locals and government out to "take all your money", immigration problems, etc. (yes, yes, yes)

But everyone has different reasons for living here. It is difficult for anyone to give you a correct answer - its a personal life changing experience. Some love Chiang Mai from the start, others learn to love it and many hate it and leave or remain and become surly posters on this forum.

Personally I believe those who adjust better here have lived overseas or traveled extensively.

Moving from the US you will give up many conveniences, but hopefully here discover a new life that is filled with adventure and fun.

Chiang Mai always receives favorable press coverage from visiting reporters who spend and few days and get swept away by its charm. Don't move here because of an article in Forbes. Come for 3-6 months and then make a decision.

Best of luck.

[FolkGuitar]

I moved to Asia 25 years ago, and loved everything about it... for a while... Then I hated everything about it... for a while...

Then I realized that living in Asia was not really any different from living anywhere, except that I couldn't read the signs in the store windows. I realized that living anywhere was going to be what ever I made it to be. I realized that I was free to choose to be comfortable with my surroundings or fight them. I chose comfort. Surprisingly, a lot of people don't.

I moved to Chiang Mai in 2001. I found everything I wanted here... except Clauson's Dill Pickles and Jimmy Dean Breakfast sausage. So I learned how to make them myself. Problem solved.

Chiang Mai is as friendly a town as you'll find anywhere, both locals and expats. It's as cosmopolitan as you could want, with a dozen colleges and universities supplying the intellectual stimulation, if THAT is what you want. Plenty of excellent medical facilites, shopping areas, recreational diversions, great foods from just about every country, low cost of living... the list goes on and on. But in the end, it's what YOU make of it. Thailand doesn't hand life to you. You have to go out and take it. But that's the way it is everywhere, right?

[Diplomatico]

To the OP - I'm at a similar decision point. So I visited Chiang Mai for a week and thought it was great. Relatively inexpensive (if you want it to be), it's a reasonable size, friendly people, plenty of things to do if you want but also a great place to just relax. Just about every person I met who actually moved to CM said they loved it.

My next step will be to do a 'trial run'. I plan to do a longer stay of about six months to see if I really like it. If I don't, no long term investment....if I do, I stay. I imagine I'll be staying.

Understand that anywhere you move that is outside of your own culture will be filled with challenges and obstacles that you will eventually learn to understand and overcome, with a smile and a shake of the head. If the positives outweigh the negatives (and in CM I think they will), then I'd be relatively content.

Don't fall into the trap of the negativity of this forum...the forum has great information but - as the internet has spawned - the complainers have an anonymous venue to spew their venom which they otherwise wouldn't have the actual bravado to accomplish in a face to face encounter with a physical person standing in close proximity.

My advice - check it out yourself first on a short term basis. Go from there. Best of luck with your endeavor.

[qdinthailand]

Most people remember the bad stuff way more than the good stuff - if that good stuff wasn't out of the ordinary. Bad stuff is always out of the ordinary, so the time your car broke down on the way to Grandma's for Christmas sticks with you always, but the 20 other times you went to Grandma's for Christmas and nothing happened all run together, nothing sticks in your mind. Nothing to write home about.

So same with the internet, and forums. Mostly what people write about is the unusual - which is usually the bad stuff. People aren't going to write in and say "everything is coming up roses". "Today nothing happened - just all good!"

You are reading only a select, limited amount of what goes on - mainly just the bad stuff. and mainly from the same limited number of grumblers and crotchety old men.

Don't judge the book by the cover.

[Beetlejuice]

Thailand is a very dangerous place. you put your life at risk every time you drive a vehicle, use electricity, walk down a street, etc. it's not for everybody. Chiang Mai has terrible air quality a few months out of the year. personally i don't think the women are anything special. they are the same in every country of the world. i like Thailand for its beaches and enjoy outdoor activities here. depends what you are looking for.

I have to agree with most of what you say.

True, Thailand is not for everybody, you can either love it or hate it.

Living in Thailand is so totally different to living in the West, different attitudes, different culture and different ways of thinking. The trick is being able to adapt as the experience can be rather a culture shock as to what we are used to and take for granted in the West, such as services, safety standards and also not forgetting that as foreigners we give up most of our statutory rights as we enjoyed in our home countries as citizens.

If you`re the type who enjoys social, wine, women and song, then Chiang Mai may prove a disappointment and easy to fall into isolation here, there won`t be any ex-pats ready and waiting with open arms to welcome you into the fold and although Chiang Mai is considered cheap compared with living in other parts of the country, it`s not as cheap as many are lead to believe and still need dosh here and lots of it.

Just a view points to take into consideration.

[Lobo4819]

I moved to Asia 25 years ago, and loved everything about it... for a while... Then I hated everything about it... for a while...

Then I realized that living in Asia was not really any different from living anywhere, except that I couldn't read the signs in the store windows. I realized that living anywhere was going to be what ever I made it to be. I realized that I was free to choose to be comfortable with my surroundings or fight them. I chose comfort. Surprisingly, a lot of people don't.

I moved to Chiang Mai in 2001. I found everything I wanted here... except Clauson's Dill Pickles and Jimmy Dean Breakfast sausage. So I learned how to make them myself. Problem solved.

Chiang Mai is as friendly a town as you'll find anywhere, both locals and expats. It's as cosmopolitan as you could want, with a dozen colleges and universities supplying the intellectual stimulation, if THAT is what you want. Plenty of excellent medical facilites, shopping areas, recreational diversions, great foods from just about every country, low cost of living... the list goes on and on. But in the end, it's what YOU make of it. Thailand doesn't hand life to you. You have to go out and take it. But that's the way it is everywhere, right?

Sausage King makes better Jimmy Dean sausage than Jimmy Dean.

As for the OP's query, nah, don't bother coming here, you won't like it.

[FolkGuitar]

I moved to Asia 25 years ago, and loved everything about it... for a while... Then I hated everything about it... for a while...

Then I realized that living in Asia was not really any different from living anywhere, except that I couldn't read the signs in the store windows. I realized that living anywhere was going to be what ever I made it to be. I realized that I was free to choose to be comfortable with my surroundings or fight them. I chose comfort. Surprisingly, a lot of people don't.

I moved to Chiang Mai in 2001. I found everything I wanted here... except Clauson's Dill Pickles and Jimmy Dean Breakfast sausage. So I learned how to make them myself. Problem solved.

Chiang Mai is as friendly a town as you'll find anywhere, both locals and expats. It's as cosmopolitan as you could want, with a dozen colleges and universities supplying the intellectual stimulation, if THAT is what you want. Plenty of excellent medical facilites, shopping areas, recreational diversions, great foods from just about every country, low cost of living... the list goes on and on. But in the end, it's what YOU make of it. Thailand doesn't hand life to you. You have to go out and take it. But that's the way it is everywhere, right?

Sausage King makes better Jimmy Dean sausage than Jimmy Dean.

As for the OP's query, nah, don't bother coming here, you won't like it.

Hell, "I" make better Jimmy Dean sausage than Jimmy Dean! And still not nearly as good as Sausage King!

This ain't Kansas. If we choose the way we want to live (rather than letting others choose it for us,) if we can learn to take control of our life, and be flexible with the parts that can't be controlled, we can live comfortably almost anywhere. Can't find something we want? Learn to make it. Don't like the temperature in our home? Learn how to change it. No need to sit around an bitch about things. Either change the ones we can or learn to live with the ones we can't. There are two other alternatives; leave, but then we take the problems with us. Or spend our lives complaining here in Thai Visa...

As Captain Jack Sparrow said; "The problem isn't the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?"

Edited December 23, 2013 by FolkGuitar

[Torrens54]

To the OP - I'm at a similar decision point. So I visited Chiang Mai for a week and thought it was great. Relatively inexpensive (if you want it to be), it's a reasonable size, friendly people, plenty of things to do if you want but also a great place to just relax. Just about every person I met who actually moved to CM said they loved it.

My next step will be to do a 'trial run'. I plan to do a longer stay of about six months to see if I really like it. If I don't, no long term investment....if I do, I stay. I imagine I'll be staying.

Understand that anywhere you move that is outside of your own culture will be filled with challenges and obstacles that you will eventually learn to understand and overcome, with a smile and a shake of the head. If the positives outweigh the negatives (and in CM I think they will), then I'd be relatively content.

Don't fall into the trap of the negativity of this forum...the forum has great information but - as the internet has spawned - the complainers have an anonymous venue to spew their venom which they otherwise wouldn't have the actual bravado to accomplish in a face to face encounter with a physical person standing in close proximity.

My advice - check it out yourself first on a short term basis. Go from there. Best of luck with your endeavor.

This is the BEST advice RickNuNu,

I think "Diplomatico" has summed it up perfectly. Come and "test the water" for yourself I think you'll find Chiang Mai to be one of the best spots in the world to retire.

My wife's elder daughter is married to a guy from your part of the world, they live in LA and own a house here, which they "visit" every year and the husband, just can't wait to retire and live here full time. Should mention, he is considerably older than she is, they've been happily married for a number of years and even work for the same company. So don't be put-off by the "Nay Sayers" who try to tell you that marrying a Thai Girl won't work. You just have to find the RIGHT Thai girl as I did after many an unhappy relationship in my homeland where I got ripped-off more than once.

Once again, take "Diplomatico's" advice, come on over and check out CNX, we'd love to welcome you but don't come over thinking that you can Change Thai Ways to American ways....that my friend would lead you to great disappointment.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Torrens54

[northernjohn]

As has been said often come and give it a try out. If you decide it is not for you I guarantee you will still have a good experience. As for the culture differences. I love them.

The traffic is not good at all certain times of the day but what city this size does have no traffic problems. As a rule March has bad smog and smoke with a build up to and down from in Feb. and April. That can be a variable situation. But even at it's worst it is not as bad as some other places in the world. The more affluent people use March as a time to visit another part of Thailand. Kind of like having a job with a one month holiday with pay.

You will find as much to do here as you want to do or as little to do as you want to do. It is a great place to use as a starting place to visit other parts of Asia. It is all up to you if you want to live high on the hog you can do that or if you want to live cheaply you can do that. Don't believe any one who tells you it is expensive. That is just there personal situation.

You didn't mention if you were married or not. If not there are some very good looking women here and some not that good. Mine is 18 years younger than me and we have been together a long time now. She spent the night's in the hospital when I had my hip replaced. I needed her there like I needed another hole in my head but that is the Thai way. To not let her would have been an insult to her. She is 54 I am 72 so the age difference is not an issue.

Just come and give it a shot you won't regret it no matter what you decide.

[Microwave]

Not much to add to the excellent suggestions already posted. Get a double entry tourist visa and live here for 6 months before making a decision. Same goes for any other country that you're considering retiring to. I've been coming to Chiang Mai on and off since 1981 and love life here.

My only addition to what's been posted already is to stay with a Thai family for awhile to better understand the culture and also make a serious effort to learn how to speak, read and write Thai. Learning the language provides so much insight into the culture which one would never obtain by surrounding yourself only with non-Thais and speaking English everywhere you go. This is Thailand and in Thailand the people speak Thai. Learning Thai isn't that difficult if you put your best effort forward and try to assimilate, just keep at it understanding that you won't be fluent overnight. Spending some time in the country before retiring while learning the language and assimilating is sound advice for whichever country you decide to retire to.

Best of luck whatever you decide to do!

[CMNightRider]

Chiang Mai is probably the most affordable city in the world with inexpensive and excellent health care, good weather, friendly people, and great restaurants, along with an International airport. It would be even better if there were some sort of mass transit to alleviate the ever increasing traffic, professional law enforcement, pedestrian friendly footpaths, enforceable building codes, and clean air enforcement, but then everyone would want to come here. I retired to CM about 5-1/2 years ago and never regretted it. There is something here for everyone but tends to be a paradise and fountain of youth for older single guys like me.

[BradinAsia]

Thailand is a very dangerous place. you put your life at risk every time you drive a vehicle, use electricity, walk down a street, etc. it's not for everybody. Chiang Mai has terrible air quality a few months out of the year. personally i don't think the women are anything special. they are the same in every country of the world. i like Thailand for its beaches and enjoy outdoor activities here. depends what you are looking for.

Very poor response to the OPs request for information about Chiang Mai.

Thailand is a very dangerous place? Compared too what place? What is so

scary about using electricity? You don't have electric in your home country?

After 27 years in Asia, I'd say Chiang Mai is one of the safest places in Asia,

very similar to Japan. And much safer than many places in the U.S. My non-

Thai wife and I feel very comfortable living here in Chiang Mai.

The drivers here are much better than in the Philippines and more courteous

than most places in U.S. Now and then a few wild youngsters on motorbikes,

but nothing really scary or life threatening at all.

From your very negative post it seems you are not talking about Chiang Mai.

Or maybe you didn't notice the OP asked for info about retiring in Chiang Mai.

[Carrerakiss]

Li. Anything, you won't really know until you try it. Fortunately, your already retired, so you have the chance to take a few months out and see how it goes. There's an adjustment to make compared to the States. Some people like that its different in Asia, some people bitch all the time that it's not like home.

If on paper Chiang Mai seems to have what you are looking for, try it out without making any big financial commitments and see how it goes.

[uncola]

i have lived in Chiang Mai for 29 years. it has changed. i was here before tuk tuks and taxis and condos and even old foreign ladies tourists. i remember driving around town on my Honda Dream and not seeing another foreigner all day. we had 'darkie' toothpaste then before PC got a hold of Thailand... sort of and it became 'darlie'. i liked it better before. no KFC [that was the first one], no burger king [the second] and no 7-11s,

i was a thai buddhist monk 27 yrs ago. that was not easy. a few foreign tourist around then.

so now that i am older i appreciate comforts more and better food with more variety. most things here have 'improved' if you call improvement better infrastructure [roads, water, electric]. but that is just the brick and mortar part of chiangmai.

the reason i live here is because i always liked thai people. sure there are the weird ones... the politicians and the media but i just stopped buying the papers long ago and if i avoid most of the crap on thai visa it is easy to see why this place is so popular.

[rsbg1]

We went there to Chiang Mai in Oct. for 10 days and loved it so much we bought a brand new house and plan on retiring there next year. This was our first time to travel to Thailand but we have researched it, and decided this was the place. I'm going back to CM in April to see how the house build is doing and put the finishing touches on my kitchen. Neither of us are Thai and we can't wait to move there.. We never had a bad experience when we were their ..

[Oscar2]

Thailand is a very dangerous place. you put your life at risk every time you drive a vehicle, use electricity, walk down a street, etc. it's not for everybody. Chiang Mai has terrible air quality a few months out of the year. personally i don't think the women are anything special. they are the same in every country of the world. i like Thailand for its beaches and enjoy outdoor activities here. depends what you are looking for.

Very poor response to the OPs request for information about Chiang Mai.

Thailand is a very dangerous place? Compared too what place? What is so

scary about using electricity? You don't have electric in your home country?

After 27 years in Asia, I'd say Chiang Mai is one of the safest places in Asia,

very similar to Japan. And much safer than many places in the U.S. My non-

Thai wife and I feel very comfortable living here in Chiang Mai.

The drivers here are much better than in the Philippines and more courteous

than most places in U.S. Now and then a few wild youngsters on motorbikes,

but nothing really scary or life threatening at all.

From your very negative post it seems you are not talking about Chiang Mai.

Or maybe you didn't notice the OP asked for info about retiring in Chiang Mai.

if you don't think Thailand is dangerous then you are not opening your eyes. take a look at the stones coming up from the pavement, the broken concrete, protruding bolts, etc. any idea how many older people stumble, trip and fall on Thai sidewalks every year and end up in Thai hospitals with severe injuries? you don't think the electrical infrastructure is dangerous here with very few places with earth ground, live circuits hanging open on fallen wires, etc. ever read the Thai newspapers? I do. a very high number of people (including children) are electrocuted in Thailand every year. how many other countries in the world do tourists get electrocuted in hotel swimming pools? did you read about the bus sign that fell down in Jomtien and almost killed an older Swedish tourist?

your assessment of the "courteous drivers in Thailand" is absurd. nothing scary or life threatening? come on...get real. have you ever read the statistics of road fatalities and injuries each year in Thailand? do you drive a car?

for the record, i love Thailand. but i see it for what it is.

[Oscar2]

Neither of us are Thai..

then how could you buy a house?

[BradinAsia]

I moved to Asia 25 years ago, and loved everything about it... for a while... Then I hated everything about it... for a while...

Then I realized that living in Asia was not really any different from living anywhere, except that I couldn't read the signs in the store windows. I realized that living anywhere was going to be what ever I made it to be. I realized that I was free to choose to be comfortable with my surroundings or fight them. I chose comfort. Surprisingly, a lot of people don't.

I moved to Chiang Mai in 2001. I found everything I wanted here... except Clauson's Dill Pickles and Jimmy Dean Breakfast sausage. So I learned how to make them myself. Problem solved.

Chiang Mai is as friendly a town as you'll find anywhere, both locals and expats. It's as cosmopolitan as you could want, with a dozen colleges and universities supplying the intellectual stimulation, if THAT is what you want. Plenty of excellent medical facilites, shopping areas, recreational diversions, great foods from just about every country, low cost of living... the list goes on and on. But in the end, it's what YOU make of it. Thailand doesn't hand life to you. You have to go out and take it. But that's the way it is everywhere, right?

FolkGuitar, a very excellent post.

I agree with the clear and obvious logic in every point you make. Like a breath of fresh air in

the midst of the negative stench of the gloomy crowd on TV.

To the OP: Anyone reading the posts here will soon realize that the biggest problems of the

gloomy crowd are the attitudes they bring with them. No matter where they go they will have

major issues. But, of course, the issues are innate within themselves.

Even if they went to heaven they would have complaints -- the glare from the golden streets

hurts their eyes, etc, etc, on and on forever more.

[northernjohn]

We went there to Chiang Mai in Oct. for 10 days and loved it so much we bought a brand new house and plan on retiring there next year. This was our first time to travel to Thailand but we have researched it, and decided this was the place. I'm going back to CM in April to see how the house build is doing and put the finishing touches on my kitchen. Neither of us are Thai and we can't wait to move there.. We never had a bad experience when we were their ..

Well to be honest that is a draw back to Thailand. It is hard to find competent builders here. Most people have to watch over what is being done to a certain degree. I am not saying they are all incompetent but many of them are and you find yourself having to redo things that to them are not a big deal. I do hope you have found a competent builder or overseer for your new home.

[jaideecm]

I have been living in Chiang Mai for 26 years and Love it. I enjoy the Thai culture and friendly people. Traffic is not a problem compared to other places I have lived. I live in a quiet community 4 kilometers from the city center. If you learn to speak proper Thai, take a few classes on Lanna (northern Thai culture) and spend some time staying at a temple as I did (although I am Christian). You will enjoy all that north Thailand has to offer.

Enjoy Chiang Mai,

Randy

[blazes]

"Are you unhappy with your decision to move to Chiang Mai, would you have been better off in Costa Rica, Mexico, Ecuador, Nicaragua, etc? Do any of you regret your decision to move to Chiang Mai?

I've heard that only 30% of the people that move to Costa Rica actually stay in Costa Rica longer than a year. Does anyone have any idea what that statistic might be for Chiang Mai?"

I love it here, unfortunately many post readers confuse "understanding reality" with "unhappiness or hate".

The are many minor and major problems with Thailand, but the girls, yum yum.

I only came here for two weeks, but ended up staying five years.

Best five years of my life (so far).

If anyone had told me, ten years ago, that I would be having the best sex of my life with the prettiest girls I ever got my hands on, in my 60s, I would have laughed in their face.

But to be truthful, I spend most of my time running, watching movies, and having coffee with the guys.

Great bunch of guys from all over the world in CM, really easy to meet people and make good friends.

My day today.

6:30 Woken up by my step-daughter, dad, drive me to school. (Brrrr ....chilly on the m/c).

7:45 Park at the back of the zoo, run up to Wat Doi Suthep and back. (perfect running weather, hardly even sweat)

9:05 Run up again, cos I passed some pals, but couldn't stop and chat first time as pushing my record.

10:00 Hang out at the coffee shop, about 5-10 of us go there each day.

11:30 Zip off to Festival Mall with a couple of the guys, spend an hour looking at girls, then have lunch.

14:00 Home, to see wife and kids.

16:00 Collect step-daughter, shop at Makro on way home, buy some sticky rice for dinner.

18:00 Post on TV while the wife puts baby to bed.

It was a typical day, life doesn't get much better than this.

Or more unutterably boring boring boring. Not a single mention of reading anything, ANYthing, even The Sun or the Daily Mail., but SOMEthing.

What a recipe for an addled brain a few decades from now....

[Hecate]

It's been 20 years since I was in Costa Rica, but I've visited Thailand six times since then and finally retired here three years ago. Costa Rica was at least twice the price of Chiang Mai and I didn't feel safe there. Chiang Mai does have bad traffic and dodgy electricity, but other than that it's safe. The people--both foreigners and locals--are friendly, and there's more to do than in Costa Rica. Lots of expat clubs, courses to take, yoga, and so on. For me the frustrations are related to work permit restrictions and immigration rules, but I'm still here even though I can't do some of the things I would like to. I've been away from Chiang Mai for a year and a half, but most of the people I met before are still here. There's always frustrations living in a foreign country, but for most Farang in Chiang Mai the benefits outweigh them. You should come and see for yourself. You really can rent a decent room here for $200 a month.

[BradinAsia]

Thailand is a very dangerous place. you put your life at risk every time you drive a vehicle, use electricity, walk down a street, etc. it's not for everybody. Chiang Mai has terrible air quality a few months out of the year. personally i don't think the women are anything special. they are the same in every country of the world. i like Thailand for its beaches and enjoy outdoor activities here. depends what you are looking for.

Very poor response to the OPs request for information about Chiang Mai.

Thailand is a very dangerous place? Compared too what place? What is so

scary about using electricity? You don't have electric in your home country?

After 27 years in Asia, I'd say Chiang Mai is one of the safest places in Asia,

very similar to Japan. And much safer than many places in the U.S. My non-

Thai wife and I feel very comfortable living here in Chiang Mai.

The drivers here are much better than in the Philippines and more courteous

than most places in U.S. Now and then a few wild youngsters on motorbikes,

but nothing really scary or life threatening at all.

From your very negative post it seems you are not talking about Chiang Mai.

Or maybe you didn't notice the OP asked for info about retiring in Chiang Mai.

if you don't think Thailand is dangerous then you are not opening your eyes. take a look at the stones coming up from the pavement, the broken concrete, protruding bolts, etc. any idea how many older people stumble, trip and fall on Thai sidewalks every year and end up in Thai hospitals with severe injuries? you don't think the electrical infrastructure is dangerous here with very few places with earth ground, live circuits hanging open on fallen wires, etc. ever read the Thai newspapers? I do. a very high number of people (including children) are electrocuted in Thailand every year. how many other countries in the world do tourists get electrocuted in hotel swimming pools? did you read about the bus sign that fell down in Jomtien and almost killed an older Swedish tourist?

your assessment of the "courteous drivers in Thailand" is absurd. nothing scary or life threatening? come on...get real. have you ever read the statistics of road fatalities and injuries each year in Thailand? do you drive a car?

for the record, i love Thailand. but i see it for what it is.

Oscar, in case you didn't notice -- the OP asked about Chiang Mai. My comments

were about Chiang Mai.

Everyone knows about the high death tolls on Thai highways. Every place has it's

pros and cons. Nobody is saying Thailand is perfect.

As beautiful as Japan is with all it's modern infrastructure, the electric wires are just

like in Thailand -- the wires on the poles in the cities are like a bowl of spaghetti and

grounded electrical outlets are very rare in the whole country. I lived there 16 years.

If you want pristine streets and sidewalks go live in Europe and pay the 49% tax rate

-- if that is what makes you comfortable.

For me, and many others, Chiang Mai is the very best place. After living many places

in Asia, I found Chiang Mai to be outstanding -- in comparison.